Levels of Consciousness - Pride

[Shaden]

I was reading Steve's blog post on levels of consciousness recently and an interesting thought occured to me. What if you thought you were at a higher level of consciousness then you actually were? What I mean by this is, what if you were convinced that you were at the level of reason, but in actuality you weren't, you were much lower.

At the level of pride I think this is possible. Prestige is one thing that people at the level of pride sometimes rely on to feel good about themselves. So what if someone at a lower level of consciousness joined a community like this one with lot's of highly conscious people in it? And what if he was at that kind of level of consciousness? Would his ego lie to him about his actual level of consciousness so he would feel at ease with that community and not feel inferior.

Perhaps people have been through this type of thing and would like to share with us what it was like to come to the realisation that they weren't as conscious as they thought they were. I think it's possible, very possible at the level of pride. After that the ego becomes quieter. The true gateway from pride to courage is accepting ones current situation at least to some degree. And the ego and acceptance cannot exist at any point at the same time without conflicting with one another.

What do you think?

[demk]

I occasionally experience something that I have heard referred to as Spiritual Materialism. Its basically where you ego attaches its self to the idea of being spiritual and uses that for its purposes. I suspect that its probably quite common with people who are on the spiritual path because the form the ego takes is interchangable but the structure is always the same. Basically its easy to spot, just ask yourself whether your thoughts or behaviour are trying to make yourself superior to someone else. Are you seeing yourself as better than others because you are more conscious?

Even now i see myself taking pride in the fact that i am being knowledgable. I am keen to be involved in this forum because it enables me to contribute what i know and I'm sure there is ego in that somewhere. Maybe there are different types of ego and pride. Is priding yourself in helping others damaging in some way because it involves pride? Is a positive action that helps other people in some way actually negative because your ego is involved?

Possibly there are more so and less so destructive types of ego.

Hmmm...


Demk

[Trina]

It seems to me that your intentions in regard to your level of consciousness would have something to do with it. How can your ego lie to you about what level you are on if your intentions are to better yourself? If you are more concerned with what level you are on than what you need to work on or want to accomplish to improve yourself, wouldn't that imply that your ego is at work? I am one of those people who joined this forum on a lower level of consciousness than everyone else here, but I don't pretend that I am anything other than I am. Most of the stuff you all talk about is over my head, but I am trying really hard to learn from everyone because I want to understand. What others think of what level I may happen to be on isn't important. Being a better me is what I care about.

Keep in mind that because I am on a lower level than all of you, I may not really understand what you are asking, so be gentle. LOL.

[norbert]

I bought this book in July and it still helps me staying conscious most of the time. It's most interesting chapter is the one Steve reviewed. The others weren't really in my interest and I don't believe in the method how the values for the levels were calculated. Although the levels and values themselves make a lot of sense to me.

Shaden, I believe all that matters is if you are below or above level 200, the level of Courage, the courage to live consciously, to take responsibility for your life. If you're below this level, you live your life destructively. Pride is <200, meaning its destructive. If you are above 200 (Courage, Neutrality, Willingness, Acceptance, Reason, Love, Joy, Peace, Enlightenment), it's guaranteed you can't be at the level of pride (the level of self-deception) at the same time, because that's below, as you see.

I believe while you live your life with courage and make positive contributions to the world it doesn't matter what your level is. Your current level of consciousness is always changing anyways as Steve has pointed it out in his review. Special events in your life can drag you down while others can lift you up. Just like the launch this forum does.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by Shaden

At the level of pride I think this is possible. Prestige is one thing that people at the level of pride sometimes rely on to feel good about themselves. So what if someone at a lower level of consciousness joined a community like this one with lot's of highly conscious people in it? And what if he was at that kind of level of consciousness? Would his ego lie to him about his actual level of consciousness so he would feel at ease with that community and not feel inferior.

What do you think?

I think it's not only possible, but highly probable. I'm quite sure my ego has done that to me on numerous occasions!

[RandomJohn]

Pride is such a strange thing, and I think it's because it's so close to the magic 200 cutoff. For some people, say those who live in a state of shame or help/hopelessness, pride is a big improvement. Pride is a huge step up, even if it is pride in membership in an extremist group. However, it is so dangerous, because it generates so much energy that can be misdirected (if you notice, it's one of the closest to the 200 which means that it's one of the highest states you can be in that still doesn't necessarily lead to truth). However, for someone who has gone through to the states of courage, acceptance, or willingness, the inevitable lingering pride can "drag them down," because it is so narcotic.

[Toine]

“There is no difference between an enlightened man and an ignorant one. What makes the difference is that one realizes it, while the other is ignorant of it.” (Hui Neng)

[AndyMartin]

I don't think you can expect to completely transcend pride as an experience, only as a guiding response. No matter where you are on your path, ego will always be there, doing its job of providing feedback based on the realization of our intentions, and you will have to do your job of making sure it does no more.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a warm, "Rock on, Self!" feeling as a good message passes through ego on the way to spirit the same way that practicing yoga feels good to my body on the way up the chain. The problem is if I hold that good feeling in the ego stage and act on the intention to get more ego gratification; ego always wants more. If my feedback loop is working right, ego will pass it up to spirit and let spirit direct the response; spirit knows it is transient just like the next thing. That's why non-attachment is important on the enlightenment path.

Never feel bad for feeling good. Ever see the Dalai Lama smile? We're here to experience joy. Experience it fully, then experience the next thing fully.

--Andy

[RandomJohn]

Here's what Hawkins says about Pride and why it's not all it's cracked up to be:

The problem, as we all know, is that "Pride goeth before a fall." Pride is defensive and vulnerable because it is dependent upon external conditions, without which it can suddenly revert to lower levels. The inflated ego is vulnerable to attack. Pride remains weak because it can be knocked off its pedestal back to Shame, which is the threat that fires the fear of loss and pride. ... The downside of Pride is arrogance and denial.

Andy, I think that you are right in that our ego is there to protect us in the best way it can. For many of us, the pride of membership in a group (which I think is the type of pride found at level 175 on Hawkin's scale) seems to be the best form of protection, though it is an unstable form. The form of "Rock on, Self!" I think is rather a part of courage, willingness, or perhaps even love, which are found at the higher levels of consciousness.