The Case for Materialism

[Michael Chui]

Copied from Yank Tauber
Two friends were hiking when they reached a fork in their trail. One path led up a mountain and had a signpost proclaiming, "To a Life of Spirituality." The second path led down into the valley and was marked, "To a Physical Life."

The friends hesitated before the two signs. Finally, they decided that Friend A would take the first path and Friend B would explore the second path. They agreed to meet up in twenty years and compare notes.

Friend A climbed the mountain. On its summit he found blue heavens, a spring-fed pool and a library of holy texts. Each morning he arose before dawn, immersed in his pristine mikveh, and spent the entire day meditating, praying and studying.

Friend B followed the second path to a bustling city. He married and fathered a dozen children. To support them he started a business which, despite (because of?) his scrupulous honesty, prospered greatly. He attained a position of influence in the community and soon his evenings and nights were taken up by communal affairs. On weekends he fundraised for a number of important charities for which he served as a trustee and to which he contributed generously from his own growing wealth. Still, he made time to do the kids' homework with them each evening, and never missed a PTA meeting or school event. His home was famous for its hospitality, and he delighted in personally serving his guests and listening to their stories.

After two decades in their respective lives, the two friends retrace their steps and meet at their parting point.

"So how's the spiritual life?" asks B.

"The spiritual life is great," answers A. "It's a long, difficult path, but if you persist and refuse to give up, you attain the goal."

"And what's the goal?"

"To escape the self. To transcend the ego. To lose the 'I' within the infinitude of the Divine. It took many, many years of study, meditation and prayer, but this morning I experienced, for the first time in my life, the sublime state of selflessness..."

"To transcend the self?" says Friend B. "Why, I haven't thought of my self in twenty years."

I liked this story. What is best, and most subtly, illustrates in my mind is that materialism is not wrong. There is nothing wrong with the material world here, on Earth, where we are. A material life is as spiritual as a withdrawn one: more so, because it maintains a contact with one's fellow human beings.

[Terumoto]

Yeah, because anybody who leads a spiritual life has to run away and live in the mountains studying and meditating all day and isn't allowed to be in contact with any other human beings.

And anybody who leads a materialistic life is completely selfless and wants material wealth only to help others and give to charities, and won't ever be corrupt, selfish or negative in any way at all.

[Adelina]

This is a great post, Michael.

I too think the way to spiritual development is through action,
a little spiritual primer is good, or some periods of spiritual development,
but it doesn't really serve well as the center of one's life.
Spirituality serves better as a complement to
real world action.

Always balance the thinking with action,
and spiritual with the material,
and the forces become synergistic.

[Uplift]

It was a little bit tricky, but, with Danny Dennert's help at avoiding illusions, I managed to track Gautama down. After viewing this post, Gautama's reached the final stage of enlightenment, and has apologised profusely for his prior ignorance.

Gautama's Enlightenment

As his first act of materialism, he has chopped the offending tree down, and I, after much convincing and pleading by him, have humbly accepted to become the sole agent and distributer of genuine, hand signed, Gautama Tree Toothpicks. Each Toothpick comes in an organic sandlewood box, complete with wall mount, and is going for only $500 each. Danny Dennert has personally inspected each creation and for only $73.61 plus tax, will provide a certificate of authenticity. Order quick, as supplies are limited, due to Gautama's lack of muscle and axemanship.

Stop press!!!!! Thats it, no more Toothpicks will be produced, I only have extremely limited stocks left on a first come basis... be extremely quick, they are going fast! Gautama is bored, and exhausted, and has had an absolute guts full of true enlightenment and has now decided to return to his former unenlightened state. He is having difficulty finding a tree, and for only $1000 (reduced to $900 with every Toothpick purchase) I can arrange for him to come and personally sit under your tree... because, I, above all, care about you. I just want to help you.

Due to manufacturing processes there may be variations in toothpicks and signatures. The distributor takes no responsibility.

[Old Soul]

good story!!

But I think as is the case of "B" , true spirituality is selflessness, and is found in action... in doing..... where rubber hits the road so to speak

JC says... true spirituality is to take care of widows and orhphans, perhaps this can be understood as servanthood helping one another working together

and there is always time to go out to the garden to meditate along this journey

[robertanthony]

Michael

What are your thoughts on the mass slaughter of monks in Burma?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by robertanthony

Michael

What are your thoughts on the mass slaughter of monks in Burma?

Some people killed some other people. The latter group died. It was disappointing.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Terumoto

Yeah, because anybody who leads a spiritual life has to run away and live in the mountains studying and meditating all day and isn't allowed to be in contact with any other human beings.

And anybody who leads a materialistic life is completely selfless and wants material wealth only to help others and give to charities, and won't ever be corrupt, selfish or negative in any way at all.

I somewhat suspect that no one actually clicked through to the link where I copied the story from. It is a Jewish site. So you have to see the context of Abrahamic religions, wherein it is supposed that a spiritual person is one who is sequestered away from the world, leading a life of pure contemplation and seclusion. At best, such paragons of spirituality, if they do come down from the mountain, are holy gurus: rabbis, pastors, imams: who are naturally set above the layfolk and are supported by their work. Of course, most other religions are like this from Uplift's Buddhists to the shamans of the Native Americans.

Old Soul's note of Christ is particularly relevant. According to the Gospels, one of the most important roles of Christ was precisely to hail down the mistake of the sanctified personage. If a boy falls down a well on Sabbath, it is not unlawful to work and pull him out. Keep Sabbath on the day after. It's too bad that Paul disagreed with him and made noises about being in the world, but not of it.

Yank Tauber is intentionally reversing the assumption of isolated contemplation of life as the most virtuous of paths. It isn't. As others have pointed out, it's not related at all.

Here's another excerpt, this one from Stranger in a Strange Land, uncut version:

"Now here we have another emotional symbol — wrought with exquisite craftsmanship, but we won't go into that, yet. Ben, for almost three thousand years or longer, architects have designed buildings with columns shaped as female figures — it got to be such a habit that they did it as casually as a small boy steps on an ant. After all those centuries it took Rodin to see that this was work too heavy for a girl. But he didn't simply say, 'Look, you jerks, if you must design this way, make it a brawny male figure.' No, he showed it… and generalized the symbol. Here is this poor little caryatid who has tried — and failed, fallen under the load. She's a good girl — look at her face. Serious, unhappy at her failure, but not blaming anyone else, not even the gods… and still trying to shoulder her load, after she's crumpled under it.

"But she's more than good art denouncing some very bad art; she's a symbol for every woman who has ever tried to shoulder a load that was too heavy for her — over half the female population of this planet, living and dead, I would guess. But not alone women — this symbol is sexless. It means every man and every woman who ever lived who sweated out life in uncomplaining fortitude, whose courage wasn't even noticed until they crumpled under their loads. It's courage, Ben, and victory."

"Victory?"

"Victory in defeat, there is none higher. She didn't give up, Ben; she's still trying to lift that stone after it has crushed her. She's a father going down to a dull office job while cancer is painfully eating away his insides, so as to bring home one more pay check for the kids. She's a twelve-year-old girl trying to mother her baby brothers and sisters because Mama had to go to Heaven. She's a switchboard operator sticking to her job while smoke is choking her and the fire is cutting off her escape. She's all the unsung heroes who couldn't quite cut it but never quit."

Who would you say has more successfully transcended the self, who has attained godliness? The people who, presumably, devote themselves to the task day in and day out, the spiritual beacons of our people... or the people who have immersed their hands into the work of making the world a better place, one material item at a time?

[Rosie]

I think that this story makes a good point. You do not need to isolate yourself in the mountains to progress spiritually, but you can't simply immerse yourself in the physical either. No one can deny the importance of selflessness, but spirituality is more than charity. It's a realization of one's own divinity.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I liked this story. What is best, and most subtly, illustrates in my mind is that materialism is not wrong. There is nothing wrong with the material world here, on Earth, where we are. A material life is as spiritual as a withdrawn one: more so, because it maintains a contact with one's fellow human beings.

Good story, though it seems to compare a spiritual extreme with a material experience, which while not being the norm, is not so much of an extreme.

Nonetheless I do like that a Rabbi holds such a view of materialism (though according to the jokes made about Jews, that shouldn't come as a surprise, should it? )

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Who would you say has more successfully transcended the self, who has attained godliness? The people who, presumably, devote themselves to the task day in and day out, the spiritual beacons of our people... or the people who have immersed their hands into the work of making the world a better place, one material item at a time?

I find it ironic that an ascetic pursuit can be more selfish than a materialistic one. In terms of the good it produces, I don't see how the ascetic experience could be greater than a positive materialistic one. And even greater could be an experience that combines both elements. Which, in the case of Tauber's Friend B, could mean delegating some of his roles to other capable people so that he could devote some time to typically spiritual pursuits. Though from my point of view that would be unnecessary, since, assuming he enjoys all aspects of his life, spiritual pursuits probably wouldn't offer anything he doesn't already have.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

assuming he enjoys all aspects of his life, spiritual pursuits probably wouldn't offer anything he doesn't already have.

That's the crux, though, isn't it? What does an ascetic pursuit offer that cannot be fulfilled by a materialistic one?

As a strong introvert, I know that the life of Friend B, while I would enjoy it somewhat, would eventually drive me absolutely insane, completely unravelling all the good I might have done. Such asceticism would be very necessary for me to stay any course.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

That's the crux, though, isn't it? What does an ascetic pursuit offer that cannot be fulfilled by a materialistic one?

Enlightenment? Oneness with the divine? Ummm... Salvation? Erm... Freedom from the illusory bondage of ego which, in Friend B's situation is only further masked by distractions which, while worthwhile, are ultimately meaningless?

Yeah, I don't know...

[Dan.Linehan]

Yeah, other people can sort your trash, even if it kills 'em.

Great.

[Dan.Linehan]

.....And materialism apparently doesn't mean what I thought it did. Carry on.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

.....And materialism apparently doesn't mean what I thought it did. Carry on.

I probably should've pointed it out. It does it make a touch more clear why the simplicity of the story works, doesn't it?

Notice that all the stuff you suggested as benefits of the ascetic path are very distinctly immaterial.

[Max Power]

Some people seem to think that one excludes the other. To be very wealthy for the benefit of self and to be enlightened for the benefit of self are both possible and practical. The seperation is all fear based for some seem to incorrectly consider that god would have no use for large amounts of cash.

Two friends are discussing the true nature of reality.

"I have more money than god" says one.

"God doesn't need money" says the other, to which the friends answers....

"How do you think he built all of this?"

Max

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

I find it ironic that an ascetic pursuit can be more selfish than a materialistic one. In terms of the good it produces, I don't see how the ascetic experience could be greater than a positive materialistic one. And even greater could be an experience that combines both elements. Which, in the case of Tauber's Friend B, could mean delegating some of his roles to other capable people so that he could devote some time to typically spiritual pursuits. Though from my point of view that would be unnecessary, since, assuming he enjoys all aspects of his life, spiritual pursuits probably wouldn't offer anything he doesn't already have.

A lot of people don't see a lot of things, but it doesn't always mean much, in comparison to what others can see. I've made a lot of money through that very situation, through real estate. Being able to see the ramifications and value where others miss it all together.

What Spiritual experience are you basing it on? And how can you be certain it was an enlightening experience, or even a Spiritual one, if you had no results when others obviously do? Or if the methods you used would result in any type of Spiritual experience? Or whether your comprehension of the method you chose was adequate. Many people attempt things, are unable to, or have little interest in really doing it and give up, assuming all will have the same outcome. Someone else may do the same thing effortlessly, or someone else may persist, eventually succeeding.

My friends and I go surfing, pull up at waves that we feel are shocking, and in comes some beginners stoked out of their heads. The best surf they have ever had. Then we go to the best waves we've ever had, and someone else might pull up and not be bothered. Each is content, fullfilled, but it isn't a scale of the value of the experience which is meaningfull to all, or absolute. Then there is the person that's surfed their whole life and still cant get barrelled, so they don't rate it highly at all. They are happy and content which is all that is important to them, but meaningless in assigning a rating for the ultimate value of experience and its ramifications in surfing. They will never know what it means to be a professional surfer, and the ramifications for instance. As spectators, they may think they do.

A bit like budgie in a cage, thinking it has it all, that it has experienced all, until a wild one flies past, and dissappears in the distance.

Or some one might exercise, and feel that they are extremely powerfull and have great endurance and fitness, and that they understand the ramifications of it. They may come across other strength athletes who can carry or drag huge weights for miles, and find that they cant even lift it, let alone take a step, so they have in comparison no strength or endurance, and a limited, or no understanding of the ramifications of that level of strength.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Uplift

What Spiritual experience are you basing it on?

The experiences usually associated with an ascetic experience: hours of meditation every day, solitude, simple clothes and food, etc. The things which Friend A experienced. It's a hypothetical example. I was hypothesising.

Originally Posted by Uplift

My friends and I go surfing, pull up at waves that we feel are shocking, and in comes some beginners stoked out of their heads. The best surf they have ever had. Then we go to the best waves we've ever had, and someone else might pull up and not be bothered. Each is content, fullfilled, but it isn't a scale of the value of the experience which is meaningfull to all, or absolute. Then there is the person that's surfed their whole life and still cant get barrelled, so they don't rate it highly at all. They are happy and content which is all that is important to them, but meaningless in assigning a rating for the ultimate value of experience and its ramifications in surfing. They will never know what it means to be a professional surfer, and the ramifications for instance. As spectators, they may think they do.

Yup, agreed. Similar context, different experiences, different meaning for the one experiencing it.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

The experiences usually associated with an ascetic experience: hours of meditation every day, solitude, simple clothes and food, etc. The things which Friend A experienced. It's a hypothetical example. I was hypothesising.

That is one stereotypical view of ascetic. Other ascetics seek the spiritual experience by performing action, surrendering each action to spirit. Another ascetic may focus on thoughts, watching each thought as they carry out daily activities. Yet another sees constant serving others as the way to enlightenment. Another through yoga. Another through repetition of the name of God, another through the finding of a guru.The original hypothesis is due to one stereotypical cultural judgement of one culture about another. Kind of like the typically presented stereotypical view of American Indians presented in many early movies. Or the stereotype that alcohol and sugar effect Indigenous Australians different to Westerners.