Certain Drugs to gain awareness?

[subtleflavor]

Hello there, this is my first post to the forum. I'd just like to share an experience I had...

I personally had some sort of revelation after smoking Salvia. I felt like I was having an out-of-body experience, and felt a spiritual presence during those ten minutes. It was at my friend's party when I did this. A couple of other guy's did it but they had a much different experience with it as I did. For me, I thought I was seeing the ultimate reality for the first time. When I smoked it I came to a intense laughing state, then somewhere else where I have never been before, then back to reality without judgement, and ultimately my regular being.

The thing with Salvia was that the effect immediately went away after these few minutes, and I had time to reflect what had actually happened. I realized that what I intend in my mind is all ultimately manifested in this reality. This was months before I came across Steve's website. It was the strangest thing not only during the time where I was inhibited by the drug but during the down period where I felt the presence of everything around me: the people, the chairs they sat in, the mood of everything, like I was simply there without judging anything, the egoless state as you may call it. It felt like some serious feeling of love, like I came out of my fearful state of mind. I realized my love for everything, but it was only temporary, that's why I ended up coming to Steve's website as a little aid to help permanently change myself into a loving being.

To be honest, Salvia gave me that spark into realizing that truth, and now I feel like I'm on a new journey in life.

Tim Leary back in the 60's had some interesting views on LSD and the consciousness as well... maybe the drug uses some parts of the brain we've never even conceived using in our current reality? no idea....
Just curious about your guy's opinion on drugs as a consciousness (spiritual) enchancer, catalyst?

I'm sure some people would call me crazy because my kind of truth that I realized, but I feel like I have become a better person because of this experience.

Thanks for listening
peace and love

edit: just saw that marijuana effect thread. it kind of intermingles with this one but maybe we can get some more insight on this?

[AndyMartin]

Drugs can shift your awareness in ways that enable it to expand, however since they are external they don't develop your own ability to maintain a higher, expanded awareness. So you receive some benefit from experiencing those states, which seems to loosen your habitual awareness. But all of those states are accessible from your normal consciousness, and accessing them through drugs does nothing to develop your ability to access them at will.

There are a few other pitfalls here: If you are dependent on something outside yourself for your spiritual experience, that's going to limit your growth. If you identify yourself with those behaviors, especially if you build your spiritual identity around that, that's going to invoke ego to protect the behaviors and identity and limit your growth.

So it can have benefits, but it can be an impediment as well. I think for someone enough awareness to not become attached, it can be a rich garnish to a well-rounded spiritual practice, but it should never be made a central part of the practice.

[Lucas]

When I was younger I did a lot of psychadelics...mainly LSD, but did Mescaline aand Psilocybin as well. I got a lot out of them, but then ended up doing them more for recreation...and got a lot less out of them. I havet done any for a long while.


I see them now as a tool like books, once you have extracted the value from them, you may reread them to refrsh, but you arent going to read it every day or week. You may have to reread them until you get the point, but thats for you to know when you have gotten all you can out of it.


If you are going to do them, I suggest you DO them. Meaning don't drop acid and go to a party. Make sure you have "set and setting", which is clear mindset (and intention) and a safe, comfortable place with responsible people you trust. Also, I would reccomend the Terrence McKenna "heroic dose" which will remove all traces of your ego. No pussyfooting. While I did have a hell of a time watching "Ghost in the Shell" on acid, I didn't extract anything from it.

Also, make sure the sources are legit...which is the biggest danger in my opinion in the culture. Thats the biggest hurdle I have with doing them again. I considered cultivating some mushrooms just for a private experience.


EDIT: Salvia...I reccomend that, in the sense that it seems to only work well for those who intend it. I can get behind a drug like that. I hae done it 3 or 4 times with some interesting results. Works best for me with as much sensory deprivation as possible.

[ABlix]

Originally Posted by AndyMartin

Drugs can shift your awareness in ways that enable it to expand, however since they are external they don't develop your own ability to maintain a higher, expanded awareness. So you receive some benefit from experiencing those states, which seems to loosen your habitual awareness. But all of those states are accessible from your normal consciousness, and accessing them through drugs does nothing to develop your ability to access them at will.

There are a few other pitfalls here: If you are dependent on something outside yourself for your spiritual experience, that's going to limit your growth. If you identify yourself with those behaviors, especially if you build your spiritual identity around that, that's going to invoke ego to protect the behaviors and identity and limit your growth.

So it can have benefits, but it can be an impediment as well. I think for someone enough awareness to not become attached, it can be a rich garnish to a well-rounded spiritual practice, but it should never be made a central part of the practice.

I love this. I went through some difficult experiences relating to loved ones and drugs. It almost seemed to be that certain drugs were viewed as television..something so simple and plain as that by other individuals! It's very scary what some drugs can do. And what's more scary is the dependence people receive from drugs, rather then from themselves.

[Mitalp]

It's no secret drugs raise your self awarness. I believe once you experience that state, although you may not feel it once you come down, it's now a part of you. I'm a marijuana smoker and I've found at times I feel high, even without smoking. Anyone else feel this?

[cloud]

Originally Posted by Mitalp

It's no secret drugs raise your self awarness. I believe once you experience that state, although you may not feel it once you come down, it's now a part of you. I'm a marijuana smoker and I've found at times I feel high, even without smoking. Anyone else feel this?

I've definitely experienced this numerous times.

I've also integrated feelings I originally experienced on magic mushrooms. Most of my mushroom experiences I like to think of as temporary enlightenment . The experiences were like a glimpse of higher consciousness that I have mostly been able to bring into my normal reality. This includes awareness of details, the significance of color, feelings of confidence and power, removing fears, and perhaps my favorite: awareness of place feelings. Place feelings are the subjective feelings you get in certain places, and are made more apparent when you can suddenly change your location. Somewhat hard to describe, but I wasn't really aware of them until after walking around on mushrooms.

[AndyMartin]

Have you read any Daniel Pinchbeck? (Breaking Open The Head, 2012: The Return of Quetzacoatl) He definitely seems to be in the middle of a consciousness movement among the psychodelic set and there's certainly historical support for this.

I really like his point that we need to have an eye towards merging the magical/mystical and the rational. Mysticism on its own has failed to provide a stable "world order," and rationalism has proven unsustainable. His hope is to discover the merging of the two through psychedelics.

I have a suspicion that when the world does find a more advanced order, there will be places dedicated to the exploration of consciousness through judicious and supervised use of some of various "power plants," at which point we will probably see some advancement in understanding how they can be applied to aid sustained sustained growth in addition to the temporary states they induce.

[Mitalp]

Originally Posted by AndyMartin

Have you read any Daniel Pinchbeck? (Breaking Open The Head, 2012: The Return of Quetzacoatl) He definitely seems to be in the middle of a consciousness movement among the psychodelic set and there's certainly historical support for this.

I really like his point that we need to have an eye towards merging the magical/mystical and the rational. Mysticism on its own has failed to provide a stable "world order," and rationalism has proven unsustainable. His hope is to discover the merging of the two through psychedelics.

I have a suspicion that when the world does find a more advanced order, there will be places dedicated to the exploration of consciousness through judicious and supervised use of some of various "power plants," at which point we will probably see some advancement in understanding how they can be applied to aid sustained sustained growth in addition to the temporary states they induce.

Very interesting suspicion Andy. I would def. love to see that happen.

[shiatsustudent]

We had an interesting discussion on the use of drugs in Shiatsu class this week. To gain the full insight of any experience one has to fully integrate it into your life. Shamanic and religious rituals with mind expanding substances give benefit to the participant because of the structure and situation. Only by grounding your experiences into your real life can you ever reap the benefits.

[ABlix]

My opinion has changed and I do think it is possible that certain drugs can be used to gain higher awareness, but it's important to not become addicted to drugs to maintain that higher state of awareness. Drugs have certainly had a history of accepted medical use, before being prohibited, and there is certainly lots of research that needs to be done in the case.

Case and point, John Hopkins university recently did a study that showed Psilocybin can help people overcome depression [summary and study available at: HOPKINS SCIENTISTS SHOW HALLUCINOGEN IN MUSHROOMS CREATES UNIVERSAL “MYSTICAL” EXPERIENCE ]. Unfortunately, at this point real research is difficult to gain approval for, and it seems like there is a conflict of interest between huge conglomerates that offer other alternatives of anti-depressants to finance this type of research. This is complete speculation that I have no proof of, but it seem as if those companies would have very little to profit from if mushrooms were accepted as medicine.

There are also lots of scary sides to drugs, but what's more unfortunate is that kids are experimenting with substances there is very little concrete medical scientific knowledge of.

Personally, my bias would be that I have attempted to use mushrooms to attempt to overcome depression with certain increaments of success. What really helped me more, is martial arts and true training in awareness, however. I realized after a while, that perhaps mushrooms have very little to do with conquering depression, but rather illustrating your thoughts in very radical and scary ways.

Personal Experience in Retrospect
After taking an eighth of mushrooms,

5 minutes after,
I would have an instant intuitive glimpse of myself. It feels like my awareness and thoughts have seperated and I am trying to recall my goal. It seems as if I am trying to justify my existence, and a goal is making me "happy." I can now laugh at certain thoughts, but am also overcome with a strange mystique and fear that seems to be conjulating inside myself.

HOLY CRAP! THINGS ARE GETTING SCARY... I would see the "Indians faces" on the grass crying or looking very sad, and then afterward I would recall how unfairly I treated my mom a few nights before, and then I would see a "devil" or something that equates to the scariest of all things my subconscious can conjure at the given time. I would then have the unfortunate realization .. "and this is how a devil is born." ************!! AM I THE DEVIL? NO WAY. The identity of the devil has taken over me, I would get very depressed, more depressed then I was beforehand. And I would think, and ponder, I would see that the world I created for myself is my hell. I am living in hell, on mushrooms, right now, and I am so depressed.

Now, I recall Steve's voice in my memory....."The Law of Attraction," you attract what you want, and I take a look at my surroundings. Holy cow! I am at a drug festival, this is not who I am. I view the person I came to the festival with, as an "energy vampire." He's following me around and ************! AHH!! I have no self-confidence, am depressed, but I take the chance "Hey man, stop following me" I say in the meanest voice possible. I break away, and walk around the beautiful lake and nature. I come to a waterfall. I see the hell that I created for myself. God must hate me so much, should I jump off this ledge? After watching the beautiful waterfall and praying to Jesus and god....."Would god want me to commit suicide?" All of a sudden, I have a glimpse. God wants me to make the most out of myself, not commit suicide. He doesn't want me to depressed, he wants me to do something. He wants me to be the being that I am. I speak to myself softly, and do not want to be controlled by fear anymore. I go into the car, and sit there crying, with a phone. I have to get into college, I am an intelligent boy. I don't have any real friends. So I pick up the phone, and "perceive signals from the universe." When my courage is strong, I see the reception bars to be strong, when I am pondering my decision - my reception bars are weak. I dial, I press the button, the connection seems to be maintained. This seems to be a good time to mention, this it's IMPOSSIBLE to get reception in this nature isolated place. The night before, It took 30 tries of redialing before getting anything from my phone except "ERROR." So I call my mom, and I tell her "MOM, I HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM." And I don't, I'm not addicted to them. I am seeking help in the most radical of ways (at this time). However, my mom knows of my previous problem with drugs "NO WAY!" She's so upset, so nervous, so distraught. She's had to endure so much! "WHERE ARE YOU NOW?" I perceive she cares about me, and is a great parent. I love this courage thing. "I AM............IN A CAR." After some discussion, she wants me to leave and drive home. I feel that I have myself under control and am not on drugs anymore. I go ahead and haggle with the managers at the bar. I ask for a partial refund for the cabin, and notice myself being in complete synchronicity with the universe. As Eckert Toll puts it, some people depend on life threatening experiences to change their state. I'm not going to go into the details, but I got a chance to experience friendship afterward. People played football with me, made me feel welcome and accepted, and I loved it.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by ABlix

There are also lots of scary sides to drugs, but what's more unfortunate is that kids are experimenting with substances there is very little concrete medical scientific knowledge of.

Personally, my bias would be that I have attempted to use mushrooms to attempt to overcome depression with certain increaments of success. What really helped me more, is martial arts and true training in awareness, however. I realized after a while, that perhaps mushrooms have very little to do with conquering depression, but rather illustrating your thoughts in very radical and scary ways.

What I always found, is that hallucinogenics will bring you face to face with the things you don't like about yourself. In a sense, it shows you the truth, and what is more scary to humans than the things they try so hard to pretend aren't there?

Drug abuse, to me, is using them as painkillers, to try and avoid the things you don't want to think about, which is why you hear about people you know freaking out on LSD more than other drugs...its a cold hard mirror.

However, you can get to the same place without these substances.

[Acting Like Godot]

I would like to share with everyone a Buddhist perspective.

Basically, Buddhism advises against any kind of mind-altering substance, including alcohol.

This isn't for "moral" reasons of any kind. Basically, the Buddhist idea is that you should keep your mind as clear as possible, so that you can perceive reality more accurately.

Of course, Buddhism also says that to begin with, practically all of us already have murky, clouded brains (even when we don't take any substances).

Enlightenment is when your mind becomes completely clear and you can perceive reality as it is.

Now, what that is - don't ask me. I'm still pretty clouded.

Must be my coffee.

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Subtle, I am with you 100% I have done alot of drugs. Marijuana, mushrooms, mescaline, ecstasy, nitrous, salvia, etc. I was looking for answers...looking for "the truth" Now I see the signs ALL around me. Everything and everyone is sending me the same message. In my trip I saw that everything I experience is a manifestation of past thoughts, actions, interactions. There is no seperation between me and "my point of view" The field of view which is my reality. It is all me. When I did salvia it was like I was begining to zoom out...to see the real picture...to see that this is just some game or entity that makes up a much larger me...I believe it is my duty to save this world and create some kind of paradise...only then can I allow myself to awaken(complete and fixed). Where I have struggled is do the people in my life exist when I cannot see them? Do they really go out and do the things they say etc. This subjective reality really fits in with what I have been going through. By the way I have fallen back into the same trip where i realize everything that exists, exists in my plain of view everything begins connecting and then I begin to zoom out...feel like I am waking up from a dream into something and someone...but what, another dream? I do not want to wake up I am full of fear and not ready so I study buddhism and I also find this page and everything clicks...EVERYTHING, songs...things people say to me...It is VERY obvious I am creating all of this but to what extent? IS ANYONE OUT THERE?! I have fallen back into this awakening(ego death) about 15 times and everytime I pull myself back for fear of the unknown. I have a feeling by 2012 I will have no choice but to awaken and it is just a matter of how much can I fix before there. This life is a game idea really sits with me. I used to really be into games but now I can't stand them. Salvia changed me and I can see how the experience is continuing to change my reality. I am all over the place I know but wow what a trip life is.

[playa77]

Gaining awareness is certainly possible and easy with psychedelics. Its a first step. However the question is, how can you go about using this awareness to benefit you?
I've no definite answer to this one myself. You've got to take everything you experience under the influence with a grain of salt.
It's *just* another reality as real as your day-to-day reality.
I'm hoping this to evolve into a quality thread on how to benefit from these experiences...
I've yet to try Salvia, but i've had my share of experiences. Subscribing to Castanedas point of view, i've found that every natural drug moves your point of awareness to one location.
LSD on the contrary tends to move your point of awareness to many different locations on the course of a trip.
For me at least, this is the reason that makes it much more difficult to gain benefits from LSD than from, say Shrooms or Meskaline.
It's not that easy to be learned/mastered than Shrooms or maybe Salvia are. I'd like to see a plan for mastering even those.
Certainly an interesting discussion here. Anyway, i've just ordered some Salvia along with fresh Shrooms. Thank god i live in Europe where you can order quality stuff on the net legally

[cloud]

To benefit from an altered reality experience, you have to have an intention before you enter the altered reality. I've done this a number of times with shrooms, and when I had an intention I'd been contemplating throughout the day, my experiences were enjoyable and profound. When I didn't have an intention, my experiences bordered on terrible. So before you take a psychedelic, make sure you have an intention for what you want to experience, learn, accomplish, etc. Plan the whole thing out, then be prepared to throw away the plan and go with the experience as soon as you enter an altered state.

[John Wesley]

I think drugs can definitely make you see a new perspective and this feeling can be exhilarating. But I don't think there is any lasting benefit there. You can't keep going back to it. After a while you get accustomed to the effects and this fresh perspective is gone. Check out the book the Kool Aid Acid Test if you want to learn more about this effect with LSD.

I think you should make an effort to translate this revelation you've had over to your sober life. That is the only way to make the feeling permanent.