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10-14-2007, 04:57 PM
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 Proof for Christianity: Challenging Skeptics I just thought I'd post this for people who aren't sure if God exists or not. I had to convert from Atheism to Christianity because of this guy... YouTube - Proof for Christianity: Challenging Skeptics
__________________ Jesus loves you Last edited by Chinese Dragon : 10-14-2007 at 04:59 PM.      |
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10-14-2007, 06:47 PM
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| That guy presupposes the existence of god and the virgin birth for his argument. The claim that Mohamad was the Antichrist is also nice. Especially using that claim as evidence to prove that the bible is right is a bit farfetched.
__________________ I am always open for feedback on my posts. That might focused on the argument at hand or on my writing style. If your feedback would go offtopic feel free to send me a Personal Message. Reality is fragile |
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10-15-2007, 05:11 AM
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| The problem with his argument is that there are other Messiah prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill, like how Jesus did not overthrow the Roman empire. He also does not explain the existence of religions other than the ones that trace their roots to Abraham. |
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10-15-2007, 07:17 AM
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His main argument is simply that the Bible is too lucky for it to be pure luck. His main subargument is that the human being, even in its collective, is incapable of producing a work of apparent genius beyond any other work. In both cases, it boils down to, "That's absurd," without any rationale for why it is actually impossible. How this is different from any disbelief in potential changes in technology (Socrates/Plato versus Writing) or culture (Duhamel versus Film), I couldn't begin to tell you. Well, no. I can tell you. Socrates/Plato and Duhamel both gave a recognizable and coherent basis for their derision. This "Venom" person does not. I'm not bothering to actually address the details of his error mostly because it gets down to a pissing match at that point. In fact, I think that I will flat-out stop hearing advocates for Christianity unless they can first present to me a venerable member of a palpably different, say, Hinduism or Shintoism or Iroquois traditions or Wiccanism, and deliver a convincing and holistic explanation of that religion first which said venerable member would accept as reasonably true as could be discerned by a student of a mere month or year. I suppose that's asking a bit much for someone who's dedicated part and parcel to a religion that cannot claim any wrong. So, I'll compromise. Write a 20+ page book report on Joseph Campbell's four-book series, The Masks of God, and then throw your spiel at me. I mean, I know it's one blind man making a convincing case to others who are just as blind, but he isn't even delivering an argument. All I want to see is an honest attempt to understand and respect a religion other than their own. Hell, I'd accept Scientology. Quote:
__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. |
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10-15-2007, 08:22 AM
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His main argument seems to be that accounts of various prophesy, and their apparent fulfilment in Jesus and in his subsequent rejection, prove that God created the bible. He seems to believe that it's absurd to think otherwise. It's not at all absurd to believe that a large number of people would believe a prophecy. Any prophecy. It is not absurd to believe that someone would appear who would seem to fulfil that vague prophecy (and aren't there similar accounts in other religions?) It is not absurd to believe that many other people would not believe, and would reject the one who others believe fulfilled the prophecy. Finally, in a more general sense it's not absurd to believe that many people would continue to believe any unprovable statement (as long as its belief doesn't directly harm them or prevent them from spreading the belief) if the framework within which that belief is presented also provides many other benefits. His entire video is a case of both hindsight and confirmation bias. Not to mention overly reliant on emotive rhetoric where he claims to be appealing to rationality. Quote:
__________________ Take a stroll down The Winding Path and let me know what you think of the scenery. |
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10-17-2007, 04:52 AM
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Commitment is another  |
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10-17-2007, 09:44 AM
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| I'm all for those who take what is spoon fed to the masses for fact, it gives the people with the latitude and scope for free thought the freedom to be themselves.
__________________ "Everybody's a genius until they open their mouth"  |
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10-17-2007, 12:31 PM
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| The argument is circular: "God wrote the bible, therefore the bible is true. And the bible shows the existence of God. Therefore, God must be true." It's a logical fallacy. |
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10-17-2007, 05:08 PM
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... So basically, he admitted that his beliefs were absurd and that he didn't mind. Ugh.
__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. |
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10-17-2007, 05:20 PM
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For instance, one could assume that gravity works because there's some sort of unseen force pushing people & matter towards solid objects. That thought process is incorrect, but that doesn't mean that gravity doesn't work. |
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10-17-2007, 06:26 PM
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| In which case he shouldn't use that thought process.
__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. |
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10-17-2007, 08:51 PM
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10-23-2007, 11:12 PM
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| I believe that "god/source" is everything tangible, intangible and in between...so therefore god is humans and humans are god so since humans wrote the bible, "god" wrote the bible. Jennifer |
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10-23-2007, 11:18 PM
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10-23-2007, 11:46 PM
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__________________ From what we get, we can make a living; what we give, however, makes a life. - Arthur Ashe Career Ninja: Behind every power tie is a ninja waiting to strike |
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10-24-2007, 12:04 AM
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Actually, that's something that was always missing for me in christianity -- a sense of humor. Jewish culture, and the Jewish people I know, have a ton of humor! even during their services! But the other religions are really a glum lot. Matthew Shea is pretty funny, but he's kind of an anomaly, isn't he? I'm going to look for examples of christian humor. Anyone know of any? but I think I'll just leave Islam alone..... Ooops! I'm sorry, Chinese Dragon. Rather than diverting your thread, I'll start a new one elsewhere... Last edited by Angela : 10-24-2007 at 12:09 AM. Reason: thoughtlessly derailed -- sorry about that. |
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10-24-2007, 03:36 AM
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More trivia: Peter the Apostle was almost certainly a married man when he decided to stop working as a fisherman. I found out when I was working on a novel intended as a kind of biography of the man, and was painstakingly putting together a timeline of the Gospels for it. Didn't work: too many holes. None of the Gospel writers gave a sneeze about Peter.
__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. Last edited by Michael Chui : 10-24-2007 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Not "trivial". "Trivia". |
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10-24-2007, 01:25 PM
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| I like to think Christ did exist, as a mysterious figure, who appeared and disappeared at will, working miracles and confounding the Pharisees with his brilliant one-liners - a bit like the Lone Ranger (only he didn't wear a mask or have a horse called Silver or have a silent, ambivalent, male friend called Tonto). The strange one to look out for is Paul. He single handedly defined and codified Christianity. Apparently, he fell out with Peter and decided to set it all up himself. He is the one who gave us the stuff about women having to submit to their husbands, and that being gay was a big no-no. Protestant Christians lean very heavily on Paul and tend to quote him ad nauseam. |