karma and hell

[wolfgang]

I know the Christian belief is there is no reincarnation. They believe you get one shot through the earth plane, there's no reincarnation to them but they do have hell. I know Buddhists have reincarnation but also have a transcendence - if you reach Buddha-hood you don't reincarnate.

So, what do you think of these ideas:

A Christian that is going to hell is actually like a Buddhist that reincarnates.

Or that a Christian that is heaven bound is like one that has reached Buddha-hood and won't reincarnate?

In other words, to have karma is to be in hell. To go beyond karma is to be in heaven. More karma means reincarnation into a world that can be hell or not depending on how you operate in the earth plane but it's not heaven yet.

[absvan]

I believe in Hinudism-Buddhism and so in the concept of reincarnation. That makes complete sense also as to why certain people are born in certain conditions.

In other words, to have karma is to be in hell.

Talking about hell, how worse could hell be compared to the wars, murders etc you see on earth. Heaven and hell are mental constructs created by people to escape from suffering...a belief that if we accept this god as our saviour then after death we are free. I doubt if Jesus actually said that.

I believe the concept of sinners and hell was created to control. Its hard to find anything that proves otherwise.

[Johnny5]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

In other words, to have karma is to be in hell. To go beyond karma is to be in heaven. More karma means reincarnation into a world that can be hell or not depending on how you operate in the earth plane but it's not heaven yet.

Hi there,

Karma is not hell in Buddhism. the word Karma/Kamma means action. It is the energy of all the merit (bad merit or good merit) of the actions (mental, verbal, physical) that you have done in your lifetime. Karma can be bad Karma or good Karma. It's definitely not Hell. The Hell is the Realm of existence. Everyone has Karma. If you live a wholesome life you will have good Karma. If you live an unwholesome life, you will have bad Karma

Karma is a Natural Principle. It means everyone is subject to each individual actions in his/her lifetime. Even if you believe in Buddhism, you cannot escape from your own bad deeds. Bad deeds take you to bad destinations, and good deeds take you to good destinations. Buddha has no monopoly on the Natural Principles or Cosmic orders (Niyama).

There are five Natural Principles that govern the Universe.

#1 utu-niyama: the caloric order
#2 bija-niyama: the germinal order
#3 kamma-niyama: the moral order
#4 citta-niyama: the psychical order
#5 dhamma-niyama: natural phenomenal sequence or Sequence of Consequence.

Niyama-Dipani, or Manual of Cosmic Order

The Buddha Taught the Dhamma/Dhamma Niyama (the Sequence of Consequence). It was called the Four Noble Truth.

The Four Noble Truth is the system for practice to achieve enlightenment. You will achieve enlightenment only when you are totally committing to practice the system accordingly.

There are four stages in achievement:

The first stage of achievement is called Stream-Entry. If you achieve this stage in this very lifetime. You will have the longest seven more lifetimes to reach the final stage. The seven lifetimes exist on earth are always better living condition than this very lifetime

The second stage of achievement is called Once-Returner. If you achieve this stage in this very lifetime. You will have one more lifetime on earthly existence to reach the final stage.

The third stage of achievement is called Non-Returner. If you achieve this stage in this very lifetime. You will not return to earthly existence. You will reborn in the Brahma Realm. You will achieve the final in that realm of existence.

The fourth stage of achievement is called Arahant. This is the final stage of achievement in the Dispensation of the Buddha. When you achieve this stage, the celestial world of the ten thousands world system is trembling and shaking. The celestial beings from the ten thousand world system is coming down to worship you. They will tell you that you are the purest being in the universe. You are worthy of worship and worthy of offering for all beings.

If you want to learn and understand the cosmos system, check out the link below:

http://www.buddhanet.net/filelib/pdf/allexistence.zip

All Buddhas teach the Bodhi Dhammas (enlightenment Sequence of Consequence).

What is the Sequence of Consequence (dhamma)?
It is the sequence that occurring in every being mind. The sequence start from a cause. The Main cause is called Not Knowing (avijja). The cause of all mistakes because of Not Knowing.

For example:

If you don't know anything about relationship, you will have trouble in relationship with someone.

If you don't know anything about nutritions, you will have health problems related to nutritions.

People who have done bad deeds, they've done so; because, they did not know the grave consequences of their actions. So the Merits of their actions will take destination according to the quality of their merits.

Make your choices wisely in your actions. You will bear full responsibility for your own actions, whether you know it or not.

The Buddha said "You are the owner of your karma, You are the heir to your karma, and you reborn through your karma."

Best Regards;

Johnny

[ShareTheWarmth]

Heaven and hell are mindsets. It's why there's always some guy who's pissed off and having a lousy time at a party that everyone else is enjoying. There are people who can smile in prison, and those that will never be happy no matter what they achieve. It has a lot to do with vibrational levels. The higher and faster you vibrate, the more beautiful your world will look.

[Clarity]

Originally Posted by ShareTheWarmth

Heaven and hell are mindsets. It's why there's always some guy who's pissed off and having a lousy time at a party that everyone else is enjoying. There are people who can smile in prison, and those that will never be happy no matter what they achieve. It has a lot to do with vibrational levels. The higher and faster you vibrate, the more beautiful your world will look.

And that is exactly what Satan wants you to believe. Share the Warmth - sounds like....himself.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by ShareTheWarmth

Heaven and hell are mindsets. It's why there's always some guy who's pissed off and having a lousy time at a party that everyone else is enjoying. There are people who can smile in prison, and those that will never be happy no matter what they achieve. It has a lot to do with vibrational levels. The higher and faster you vibrate, the more beautiful your world will look.

I agree with that, StW.
All belief systems exist by virtue of their members being on the same vibrational level, a bit like like a private members club.
To subscribe to the system you have to pump some of your energy and consciousness into it.
A belief system is just another Matrix, a psychic gestalt. If other members sense you are not on the same level, they will want you out (or converted), pronto!

[ShareTheWarmth]

Clarity,

I don't believe in Satan, but I do have a personal understanding of fear and insecurity, which I believe leads to negativity in the human world.

I believe that it is only because of the way we are taught to deal with fear that there are people starving out there. If people didn't have that fear, or if they could objectify it better and put it to the side, millionaires would give give back as much as they received while understanding that the world would pay them back.

The poor and impoverished would work hard to contribute as well, because the instilled fear in them, the belief that the world is out to get them, would evaporate.

Oh, and I think this "not enough to go around" line is a bunch of nonsense. It's just ass-talk that's been put out there to justify the soul draining system of hostility and fear that dominates the reality of the global consciousness. We don't want to admit how wrong we've been since the beginning of agriculture and structured society. I can empathize a little, being human. Who wants to admit to thousands of years of self subjected repression and misery?

In closing I will revisit the theme of satan. I think it is a negative concept, that evil is anywhere else but within human minds. Evil is never outside of you, there is no single entity that creates evil without you knowing it. You create it, along with me and everyone else. We create it with thoughts (conscious and subconscious) and actions. Any thought or action inspired by self doubt is in some manner evil, so says I.

Maybe I'm right, and perhaps I'm wrong, but it makes sense to me today at 5:07 pm.

[Matthew Shea]

Wolfgang, it seems you're being influenced by stereotypical views of hell that distract from what it really is: eternal separation from God. We don't really know much more than that about it, save for some biblical references and other works of fiction written over the centuries (e.g. Dante's Inferno) that may not be intended to give a clear physical description of hell as much as they're intended to keep people on the straight and narrow path.

I think there are enough people on this earth that have a good enough relationship with God to know that we're not exactly separated from God here in this world. If we are separated here, Christian teaching says it's not eternal, whereas hell is. Also, as Johnny pointed out, karma is a very different concept. I don't think it can be directly compared to hell.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Wolfgang, it seems you're being influenced by stereotypical views of hell that distract from what it really is: eternal separation from God.

To define hell as eternal separation would not be the same as reincarnating. However if reincarnating happens over and over it's kind of eternal until karma is stopped.

We don't really know much more than that about it, save for some biblical references and other works of fiction written over the centuries (e.g. Dante's Inferno) that may not be intended to give a clear physical description of hell as much as they're intended to keep people on the straight and narrow path.

I think there are enough people on this earth that have a good enough relationship with God to know that we're not exactly separated from God here in this world. If we are separated here, Christian teaching says it's not eternal, whereas hell is. Also, as Johnny pointed out, karma is a very different concept. I don't think it can be directly compared to hell.

The Christian belief doesn't have rebirth. But maybe the rebirth does happen and Christians have it wrong or the Christian label for rebirth is hell (but not eternal hell).

[Matthew Shea]

But you see, that's the thing. Reincarnation is by definition not eternal. There's an end point. Hell has no end. It will exist for all time. Also, Christianity has no concept of reincarnation. Once is all you get, then it's heaven or hell, so the choices you make in this life will affect your eternal destiny.

What I'm saying is you're trying to compare apples to oranges. You might be able to draw up some similarities in concepts, but at some point the comparison will fail. What you can say is that both concepts basically incentivize good behavior in this life by threatening negative consequences following it (either by eternal damnation or being reincarnated as something undesirable).