To Max Power and Impaul99: let's determine who the dreamer is...

[javamannen2]

To Paul and Max:

I read your arguments against Steve's new view of SR, and I gather you both agree with me that there's only one dreamer, right?
Well, I know that I AM THE DREAMER. I KNOW I'm the conscious one.
Therefore I conclude that you two are not conscious, but part of my subconscious.
We could argue to death about who among the 3 of us is the REAL dreamer.
But a lesson I've learned from lucid dreaming is that you should never argue with your dream characters about the nature of reality. You will lose your lucidity quickly if you fall into that trap.
So what I will write now, is not directed at the 2 of you, but at the universe at large (i.e my subconscious). OK, here goes:

I COMMAND YOU, MY SUBCONSCIOUS, TO UNEQUIVOCALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM THE ONE TRUE DREAMER. YOU WILL DO THIS THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF THE DREAM CHARACTERS IN MY CURRENT LIFE-DREAM, MAX POWER AND IMPAUL99.

THIS IS MY WILL. IT SHALL BE SO. ENGAGE! (etc...)

OK, this should be interesting...

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by javamannen2

To Paul and Max:

I read your arguments against Steve's new view of SR, and I gather you both agree with me that there's only one dreamer, right?
Well, I know that I AM THE DREAMER. I KNOW I'm the conscious one.
Therefore I conclude that you two are not conscious, but part of my subconscious.
We could argue to death about who among the 3 of us is the REAL dreamer.
But a lesson I've learned from lucid dreaming is that you should never argue with your dream characters about the nature of reality. You will lose your lucidity quickly if you fall into that trap.
So what I will write now, is not directed at the 2 of you, but at the universe at large (i.e my subconscious). OK, here goes:

I COMMAND YOU, MY SUBCONSCIOUS, TO UNEQUIVOCALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM THE ONE TRUE DREAMER. YOU WILL DO THIS THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF THE DREAM CHARACTERS IN MY CURRENT LIFE-DREAM, MAX POWER AND IMPAUL99.

THIS IS MY WILL. IT SHALL BE SO. ENGAGE! (etc...)

OK, this should be interesting...

Hehe The illusion of seperation.

If you read SP's SR Q&A, listen to the SR Podcast and then read what he's been saying lately, then you would observe some very interesting changes and those changes relate directly back to the denial of the only observer not accepting the sought out truth.

Basically there is only ever one person who can ever be with you every moment of your existance. That person is the observer, the only observer and is indeed the only conscious being. Now you will say it's you and I will say it's me, but we both know who's reality it is don't we

SR basically means you're god (without the religious BS) and the whole life thing and human being you seem to be inside of, is all just a trick/illusion that you're played on yourself. What I find amusing is that most people think that god doesn't have a sense of adventure and/or a sense of humor. Where does it say that a god can't get bored and need a bit of entertainment

Max

[maryelyn]

oh, gosh...

does this mean that max and paulie are going to leave the forum?

well, you might as well zap me out of existence then - things won't be nearly as interesting around here!

then again...if you're really both max and paul yourself (and me too, i guess), you could turn out to be quite a fascinating individual !

or...i am...

[javamannen2]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Basically there is only ever one person who can ever be with you every moment of your existance. That person is the observer, the only observer and is indeed the only conscious being. Now you will say it's you and I will say it's me, but we both know who's reality it is don't we

I take that statement (and especially the rolling eyes thing) as a tacit admission that I am the One observer, not you.
I guess I don't really want you to tell me the truth explicitly; I still want my dream characters to "believe" that they are conscious.

I love this dream!

[Akashic_Librarian]

To say I am the only conscious one, is to take an ego view, and is not true to the actual SR model.

We are ALL consciousness. There is no central focus point, only a PoV change.

[javamannen2]

Originally Posted by maryelyn

does this mean that max and paulie are going to leave the forum?

well, you might as well zap me out of existence then - things won't be nearly as interesting around here!

No, if I started zapping dream characters out of existance left and right I'd end up bored and lonely pretty soon. Don't worry, you get to stay a while in my dream!

[Billy]

When I count to three you will all stop dreaming and wake up, one........two..............three

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

To say I am the only conscious one, is to take an ego view, and is not true to the actual SR model.

We are ALL consciousness. There is no central focus point, only a PoV change.

In the SR model that SP talks about in the podcast, your above statement is incorrect, we are not all consciousness and to believe you're the only conscious being is not an ego POV, if you thought it was, you would be denying you were the only conscious being.

A person who says we're all conscious is denying they are or could be the only conscious being, because they see other people so they think there are other parts of consciousness, but there is no seperation.

Max

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by maryelyn

oh, gosh...

does this mean that max and paulie are going to leave the forum?

well, you might as well zap me out of existence then - things won't be nearly as interesting around here!

Why do you think that??? Maybe if they left this forum could start being interesting and useful again, instead of a place where it seems everyone is under marijuana

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Why do you think that??? Maybe if they left this forum could start being interesting and useful again, instead of a place where it seems everyone is under marijuana

If I leave, then you would cease to exist, how does that help anyone except me? It doesn't, therefore my existance is never about you.

Suggesting I leave is like inviting me to stay for me to further know thyself.

Sammy, I've already told you..........you can never see past a choice you dont understand. Now do you inderstand??

Enjoy!
Max

[songwriter]

As I said if three people believe they are the only existent beings or so.... at least two are wrong... lol...

mmm... let me add a little fantasy... who knows how will this end...

Maybe yes, Max is the only concious... in HIS UNIVERSE... ? lol... And I'mPaul99 it's the only one conscious in HIS... If we believe there are a lot of universes... you got it... YOU ARE THE ONLY CONSCIOUS IN THE UNIVERSE... there are others universes... but they are not yours...
...

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by javamannen2

I COMMAND YOU, MY SUBCONSCIOUS, TO UNEQUIVOCALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM THE ONE TRUE DREAMER. YOU WILL DO THIS THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF THE DREAM CHARACTERS IN MY CURRENT LIFE-DREAM, MAX POWER AND IMPAUL99.

And that reasoning is why I could never get into Subjective Reality as Steve described it in his podcast. I couldn't get into the fact that others are unconscious, the way you think about it. His more recent post about SR makes a lot more sense to me though.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Max Power

If I leave, then you would cease to exist, how does that help anyone except me? It doesn't, therefore my existance is never about you.

Suggesting I leave is like inviting me to stay for me to further know thyself.

Ok Max, whatever you say. Now i know that i only started to exist after i entered your reality. Nice. As most people on this forum say, "Thanks for the insight, Max".

Originally Posted by Max Power

Sammy, I've already told you..........you can never see past a choice you dont understand. Now do you inderstand??

Enjoy!
Max

The only thing i understand is that you're watching too much matrix.

[maryelyn]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Why do you think that??? Maybe if they left this forum could start being interesting and useful again, instead of a place where it seems everyone is under marijuana

well, you wouldn't be so provoked if the subject matter was not just a little bit provocative, would you?

p.s. i'm allergic to pot - all my delusions are alcohol related...

[maryelyn]

Originally Posted by songwriter

Maybe yes, Max is the only concious... in HIS UNIVERSE... ? lol... And I'mPaul99 it's the only one conscious in HIS... If we believe there are a lot of universes... you got it... YOU ARE THE ONLY CONSCIOUS IN THE UNIVERSE... there are others universes... but they are not yours...
...

well, sure, why not? the timeless/eternal/infinite universe would seem to have a lot of room.

my universe was getting a little cramped - i had to build an addition - much roomier now, but the maintenance is just crazy!

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Max Power

If I leave, then you would cease to exist, how does that help anyone except me? It doesn't, therefore my existance is never about you.

Heh, imagine telling that to your loved on. "You only exist because I am around, if I leave you, you don't exist! Don't you dare make me leave you and cause you to cease your own existence!"

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Heh, imagine telling that to your loved on. "You only exist because I am around, if I leave you, you don't exist! Don't you dare make me leave you and cause you to cease your own existence!"

Nah. It's psychological presence. You'd still be thinking about said loved one.

[maryelyn]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Heh, imagine telling that to your loved on. "You only exist because I am around, if I leave you, you don't exist! Don't you dare make me leave you and cause you to cease your own existence!"

wow, i've had one or two relationships where that would've been a merciful release!

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Heh, imagine telling that to your loved on. "You only exist because I am around, if I leave you, you don't exist! Don't you dare make me leave you and cause you to cease your own existence!"

How often do you think about a loved one when they're not around and when you do think about them often when they're not a round eventually what happens???

You bring them into your reality.

Does that loved one exist when they're not in you're awareness?? The answer to that question doesn't really matter because it only matters when they are in your awareness, when you think of them and then eventually they come back into your reality.

Nothing truly matters until it's in your awareness. 150,000 people die everyday, but you don't care, no one cares until the idea is placed in your awareness, then you may care and care very deeply.

The trick with SR is to let it help you build a better life. The big hang up with it is that people think they're god and that other people don't matter. While that is true on a level of creation and self purpose, it's upsetting for some people because their model of reality is based on their physical human being and being afraid of becoming a selfish person who doesn't care for others.

What matters and what doesn't matter is always a perception based on your awareness.

Max

[Mr.Mustache]

Originally Posted by Max Power

How often do you think about a loved one when they're not around and when you do think about them often when they're not a round eventually what happens???

You bring them into your reality.

Does that loved one exist when they're not in you're awareness?? The answer to that question doesn't really matter because it only matters when they are in your awareness, when you think of them and then eventually they come back into your reality.

I'm confused a little by what you said. Any and every person will continue to exist when your ego ceases to focus on them. Your ego is a very limited form of awareness. A very small portion of your awareness according SR. According to SR I am you and you are me. My existence isn't dependent on my ego's belief in you anymore than your ego's belief in me is dependent on my existence.

Every person is a drop in an ocean of consciousness. We are all the ocean yet at the same time we are the individual drop. When Steve says his consciousness is the only one he is referring to his identity as the ocean. I could say the same thing about myself and you could say the same thing about yourself.

You are getting caught up in solipsism. This has been explained a thousand times in by Steve. Its not hard to understand. Its just Eastern mysticism basically.

Its like the physicist David Bohm's Implicate/explicate order: Implicate and Explicate Order according to David Bohm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia