prayers

[wolfgang]

Why is it religious people pray for something better to happen and when it does they say "our prayers were answered" but if the something better doesn't happen they'll say "who are we to question god's plan?" It seems contraditory.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I would say your prayer was answered either way. It just might not have been the answer you wanted. The reason might become apparent later on.

That is the way I was taught in Bible classes and church growing up.

[wolfgang]

It the prayers are answered either way - why are we praying at all?

If the outcome is out of our hands then what is all the praying about?

It almost seems like praying is like wishfull thinking when someone says "our prayers were answered" when the outcome is better. And then if the outcome doesn't work out better they don't say "our prayers were answered".

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I see what you are saying and I don't have a good answer. It is simply how it was taught.

The thing is, the whole IM issue where something doesn't manifest and people tell you it was because you did it wrong somehow, seems like a similar cop out to me.

However, somehow, I still believe in the validity of both.

I think maybe it's like the addition to intentions "for the highest good of all." Perhaps the prayer or intention isn't really in your best interest or that of anyone else. In which case, God or the universe would know that and it wouldn't manifest/prayer would "not be answered." I don't know that that is any less of a cop out.

Sorry, wolfgang, I don't think I really have anything definitive to tell you. Maybe someone else will have a more enlightening take.

[Ree]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I see what you are saying and I don't have a good answer. It is simply how it was taught.

The thing is, the whole IM issue where something doesn't manifest and people tell you it was because you did it wrong somehow, seems like a similar cop out to me.

However, somehow, I still believe in the validity of both.

I think maybe it's like the addition to intentions "for the highest good of all." Perhaps the prayer or intention isn't really in your best interest or that of anyone else. In which case, God or the universe would know that and it wouldn't manifest/prayer would "not be answered." I don't know that that is any less of a cop out.

Sorry, wolfgang, I don't think I really have anything definitive to tell you. Maybe someone else will have a more enlightening take.

I've been curious about this as well, Wolfgang. My thinking has been that maybe "prayer" is another way of expressing an intention, if done properly. Prayer can have positive or negative content. My dad used to chuckle about an anecdote about an elderly gentleman who prayed as follows: "Lord, please bless my neighbors, even if they ain't no good."

Once I was a believer in traditional Christianity and I was convinced that I witnessed prayers being answered.

Maybe someone - like Steve - will give us the benefit of his wisdom on this subject

[Matthew Shea]

God is an intelligent being that people who believe in him strive to form a relationship with. Prayer is the communication necessary to form that relationship. As Aspiring pointed out, prayers get answered either way, but that communication still has to be there. Asking "why are we praying at all?" would be the same as saying "why do we speak to our friends at all when they might possibly give an answer we don't like?" Communication is necessary for a good relationship with anyone, even God.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

God is an intelligent being that people who believe in him strive to form a relationship with. Prayer is the communication necessary to form that relationship. As Aspiring pointed out, prayers get answered either way, but that communication still has to be there. Asking "why are we praying at all?" would be the same as saying "why do we speak to our friends at all when they might possibly give an answer we don't like?" Communication is necessary for a good relationship with anyone, even God.

If someone is praying for a person that might have cancer, a praying person will say either "our prayers were answered" or if it is cancer "who are we to question god's plan". If the answer is either way, it's stange to do this praying. It's like having an unreliable friend that you ask them to help and they say sorry I've got another thing to do and won't be able to help you any.

[Matthew Shea]

Why would someone only say one of those two things? Also, why are we calling God unreliable? What if he has something much better planned for the person in question in the next life and this person needs to pass out of this world? No matter what, though, God's not likely to wave his magic wand and cure every ill. That's our job. Think of praying more as a way to sort through our own thoughts and come to terms with our own morality, our own needs and desires and our own priorities in life.

[Old Soul]

I pray and I don't do that...

1) I pray, I believe this exorsises my faith... i do not see God or Jesus as a dime store clerk, where you go in and give your latest prayer/ order and come out with a prize... However I bet you do find some who do pray this way and they do come away with a big prize... good for them!!!

bottom line is people are praying and to me that is ok :-)

[Clarity]

Pray is serious business.

Jesus prayed to God to find out what God wanted him to do and so forth. When Jesus was ministering on the earth he would have conversations with his disciples and he would tell them what God wanted them to do. Then it was time for him to ascend to heaven. When he was about to leave he left these words for his disciples (and today's followers are now the disciples so it is for us too).
Various sections of Acts 1 - After his death, he presented himself alive to them in many different settings over a period of forty days. In face-to-face meetings, he talked to them about things concerning the kingdom of God. Jesus began to teach until the day he said good-bye to the apostles, the ones he had chosen through the Holy Spirit, and was taken up to heaven. "What you'll get is the Holy Spirit" he said...

And when the Holy Spirit comes on you, you will be my witnesses

John 16:23,24 "This is what I want you to do: Ask the Father for whatever is in keeping with the things I've revealed to you. Ask in my name, according to my will, and he'll most certainly give it to you. Your joy will be a river overflowing its banks!"

Now for my translation - we can't talk to Jesus in person any more

- he gives us his Holy Spirit to communicate with
- access to the Holy Spirit is only on asking for it and believing it is so

- he wants us to ask for whatever things revolve around our life calling - our family, neighbourhood, job, whatever is in our areas of concern. I take it that he is kind of busy and wants us to let him know what is happening and what needs happening in our circle. We are his witnesses. Not only does that mean we tell others about him, but we witness first hand what is happening in our circle and we let him know.

He chooses how to answer - as it is determined by the will of God himself. The answer is usually wait, yes, or no. If we really trust that God knows what he is doing we know our unanswered prayer wasn't the best way. We can get mad and sulk, that's okay. He expects we will.

We don't always get what we want. Sometimes we do.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Clarity

He chooses how to answer - as it is determined by the will of God himself. The answer is usually wait, yes, or no. If we really trust that God knows what he is doing we know our unanswered prayer wasn't the best way. We can get mad and sulk, that's okay. He expects we will.

We don't always get what we want. Sometimes we do.

For example, people pray for someone to get better and if they get better the conclusion is "our prayers were answered". Now if the person, say, dies then what kind of answer is that to the prayers? They were praying for better health not death. Now the conclusion is "we shouldn't question god's will".

So why ask god to help anyway if he can have a will that we don't understand and can be exactly the opposite of what is being prayed for? It seems ironic or contradictory. Let's pray for better but maybe god won't give us better, so what is the praying for someone to get better doing? Nothing - god will do whatever his will is.

[Clarity]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

For example, people pray for someone to get better and if they get better the conclusion is "our prayers were answered". Now if the person, say, dies then what kind of answer is that to the prayers? They were praying for better health not death. Now the conclusion is "we shouldn't question god's will".

This is the pain many many people have shared and questions they have asked God. One answer is that they were healed as some believe in heaven and that in heaven we get a new body. So they did get a better and younger body, just not on earth.

Another question is why does God take people who have lots of youth still in them, or who weren't ready to go. Some people believe that our work on earth prepares us for our work in heaven. The work in heaven I envision is helping God run the earth. That kind of answers how God is everywhere all the time, doesn't it? He may and I only say may as I have no evidence of this, use people he takes. Sometimes maybe he needs help in another area. It would be interesting for you to reflect on what things your dad did on earth and what his passions were. If my theory were correct, that might be a hint of what job God called him to do in heaven.

You are free to question God's will. He can take it.

So why ask god to help anyway if he can have a will that we don't understand and can be exactly the opposite of what is being prayed for? It seems ironic or contradictory. Let's pray for better but maybe god won't give us better, so what is the praying for someone to get better doing? Nothing - god will do whatever his will is.

You are right, it is very confusing. All I know is that there are certain instructions in the Bible and I tend to heed them. We can only assume. For some reason he does want us to pray. Part of prayer is conversation, and he wants us conversing. Sometimes the only way/time he hears from us is when we have trouble.

I guess the same questions can be posed about some other philosophies here. Why burn sage if we aren't guaranteed results? Why drink our 8 ounces of water if we will still get sick?...

I want you to be comforted, Wolfgang that you will go through many questions and I hope you find the right people to ask. When someone close to use dies, our world is turned upside down. Anger is a stage of grief. Anger can be targeted in many directions.