There is no Law of Attraction. What do you think?

[Alex2007]

Thinking about what you want your life to be like, can seriously distort your concious awareness and living at present moment.

As a result, you don't focus on the steps needed to bring the dream into reality and you get stuck on a daydreaming pattern.

There is no such a thing as law of attraction, same way like, there is no such a thing as "Free Will". There is One thing. ONENESS.

x

[pixartist]

Then your wish is your command. the LOA will not come to you and oneness will.

[Alex2007]

Good point, But

Is Oneness Concept in conflict with the law of attraction?

Thankz

Alex

[Acting Like Godot]

You're asking such big questions.

Thinking about what you want your life to be like, can seriously distort your concious awareness and living at present moment.

This assumes that you are not thinking about what you want your life to be like, right now, in the present moment.

Is Oneness Concept in conflict with the law of attraction?

Nah. I think Subjective Reality would serve as the conceptual bridge.

[Max452]

Originally Posted by pixartist

Then your wish is your command. the LOA will not come to you and oneness will.

...*giggles*

interesting thought though.. i just watched the secret recently too... hmm.. can't say i've had the opportunity to put it into practice yet.. but i have to say from past situations... it could be very possible.. either that or some things are just seriously weird coincidences (and i've had a few)...

atm.. can't say i know what to believe.. but i think all the negativity that has stirred because of the concept isn't a good thing. At a base level even if the concept didn't work, it still promotes positive thinking..

i guess some would see it as having to be partially delusional until you achieved your results.. but i can't see the harm in hoping..

also to add.. i actually came across Esther Hicks before the secret was released to the mainstream.. she has some really good things to say. I suggest following up her other works as an option.. from what i saw of 'The Secret' it was pretty much a short to the point answer to tell people how to get what they want.. Although it had some beautiful scenes and music to it.. i was rather disappointed that they made it out to be some sort of conspiracy theory/movie blockbuster type hype.. for a while my mother and i had thought we'd picked up the wrong DVD! :P

still.. theres nothing wrong in contemplating other possibilities i suppose.

[Alex2007]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Nah. I think Subjective Reality would serve as the conceptual bridge.

This puts another question related to "Subjective Reality: which is a favourite concept of Steve Pavlina. I just found his article here:

Subjective Reality Simplified

It is a complicated issue.

The secret is a blockbuster underground hit, but I am very skeptical about it.

A
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[cdn2wheeler]

Still learning here, so I can't give a definitive "yes it works" or "no it doesn't" because my experience has been mixed.

I think, like anything, one has to consider he principles of LoA in context with a healthy dose of good old-fashioned common sense.

A fundamentalist reading of LoA says that the universe will agree to your wishes if you "push all the right buttons," like it's some sort of cosmic Santa Claus. This can lead to real trouble.

For instance, let's say you wish to manifest $100,000 by a certain date. Before that date, you trundle off to your local dealer and order a Lexus SC (it's about $100,000, at least where I live). Then, for whatever reason, the universe (or whatever) says, "Nope, you're not ready for it yet."

The financial consequences can be pretty grim. And who needs to attract more bad debt into their life? (Bad debt described as debt that doesn't generate income or generates a negative return. Good debt generates positive return, such as taking out a mortgage to purchase property that increases in value. But that's another thread altogether.)

The key, at least as I see it, is to see results of LoA first. Time may be relative and elastic, and the cause-effect process isn't clearly understood. But I can promise you that your banker or credit agency will have little patience if you go into their office and tell them that the money's coming, the universe just hasn't generated it yet.

[Alex2007]

Hi cdn2wheeler

As said I am very skeptical about the issue. I am going to investigate it a bit more to see what the hell is going on with all these prophecies. Does Daydreaming contribute to the Law? There is something missing here!

A

[manzima]

Quote:
"There is no Law of Attraction. What do you think?" (end of quote).

How do you define the LOA that you say does not exist?
There are many definitions but the basic idea about the LOA is that "thoughts are things" or "we create things with our thoughts".
Are you convinced that you create things with your thoughts?

For me it is obvious because:
1. I think first before I act and everyone of my actions is preceded by a specific thought. Is that the same for you?
2. When I learn something I no doubt use my thoughts and what I learned I can do it automatically thereafter, according to the past thoughts of the learning process. So I have skills, fears, confidence, doubts, excitements ... according to my past thoughts.
Would that suffice to say that I create my own reality with my thoughts, which is the basic idea about the LOA?
For example, I lost money several times and each time I looked back I found that right before, I was worrying about not having enough money. That convinces me that I create my reality with my thoughts.
So, I would not doubt the LOA even though I have experiences where it did not deliver when I was expecting so much from it. Our main problem is that we live in a space-time realty and sometimes we want quick actions and that is where we can be disappointed. Everything in our life is based on thoughts creating circumstances and things. However, when we have deadlines to meet we may forget that mental reality and physical reality are different. Physical reality does take time to mature. You can not plant seeds today and expect harvesting tomorrow. When I want to manifest a certain amount of money I desire I remember this and the Universe choose the deadline, not me.
It is much better to ask for money when you do not need it immediately than when you are in real need of it.

The LOA does exist. Only we may not be able to use it properly to meet our needs. And these are two different things.

[Alex2007]

What about the stillness, the enlightment, zen systems, conscious awareness, etc.

If you start thinking about something you want to happen in the future it means that you live in the future and your present moment is fully distorted by the thought. Soon or late you will realise that your Daydreams don't match the reality. What a waste of time!

A

[Erin Pavlina]

When you are fishing and you cast your line into the water and you get a tug do you reel the fish in towards you or do you jump in the water and follow the line to the fish? My point being that, at least for me, I determine what I want and bring it to my present instead of constantly following it into the future. When I "daydream" as you put it, I imagine what it is I want which helps me become a vibrational match for it. Then I put my attention on my present and make subtle adjustments so that I am a match for my intention.

I don't see how the two conflict really. LOA and living in the present can be done together.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by Alex2007

Thinking about what you want your life to be like, can seriously distort your concious awareness and living at present moment.

Shakti Gawain addresses this in the chapter A Spiritual "Paradox" of her book Creative Visualization.

Sometimes people who have studied Eastern philosophy or are on a certain spiritual path feel a hesitation about using creative visualization when they first hear of it. Their conflict comes from the apparent paradox they see between the idea of "being here now," letting go of attachments and desires, and the idea of setting goals and creating what you want in life. I say apparent paradox because, in actuality, there is no contradiction between the two teachings when they are understood on a deeper level. They are both important principles that must be understood and lived in order for you to become a conscious person.

Let us imagine that life is a river. Most people are clinging to the bank, afraid to let go and risk being carried along by the current of the river. At a certain point, each of us must be willing to simply let go, and trust the river to carry us along safely. At this point, we learn to "go with the flow" -- and it feels wonderful.

Once we have become accustomed to being in the flow of the river, we can begin to look ahead and guide our course onward, deciding where the course looks best, steering the way around boulders and snags, and choosing which of the many channels and branches of the river we prefer to follow, all the while still "going with the flow."

[Alex2007]

I must say I am very astonished by your precise replies guys!!!! First with Erin Pavlina's reply ...what a wonderful Lady you are Erin ! and then with Algernon.

I got 2 perfect mental representations by you guys which saved me from weeks months or probably years of grief. It seems that these mental representations are going to be implemented in the next software version update of my Psyche.

Erin was spot on with her view with the "Fish" and her statement: "I determine what I want and bring it to my present instead of constantly following it into the future"

The above statement helps me greatly build a mental bridge between the Notion of Consious awareness and the Law of Attraction.

I also liked Algernon's close Representation with the "River" and statement:
"Once we have become accustomed to being in the flow of the river, we can begin to look ahead and guide our course onward, "

Thanks, Guys. Spot on helpful ideas that must be kept as a treasure.

Alex

[Erin Pavlina]

You're welcome. Glad it was helpful. Analogies help me with a lot of difficult concepts.

[Rose of Cairo]

Alex2007, the point is to stay in the present moment while intending, not seeing something in the future. As I'm lazy now, please read this in another thread. Very(!!!) useful is what Steve wrote here.

Manzima, about money, yes... First I wasn't worrying at all about money, I never looked at prices or at my bank account and gave about 10% of what I had to rescue animals. And I always had enough money. Then I thought, ohhh, I'm an adult now, I should be responsible and take care of my money! So I started looking regularly at how much I had left, looking at prices, not giving away so much... and suddenly, mysteriously I started having BIG money problems. Now I'm totally broke - and learning not to care about it again... LOL

[Alex2007]

Hi Rose.

You have been through these stages:

I have money: I don't care about Prices.
I have less money: I care about Prices
I have No money: I don't care about Prices

But I think, it is not the prices the issue. It is consumption. Sometimes we try to be happy by consuming things. It is not consumption that makes us happy, but savings.

[Alex2007]

I have read the Steve's article you recommended called "a better life"

It is very relevant to the 2 notions explained above. Steve suggests:
".....Focus entirely on the present...But give your present a velocity instead of seeing it as a fixed point...."

A

[m18pak]

LoA is real.

Period.

♥♥♥♥♥.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by manzima

"thoughts are things" or "we create things with our thoughts".

@Alex

The above is my disagreement with LOA.

Your thoughts are your thoughts, they don't effect the manifestation of what you want. Consciousness is the creator and creation can't be seen with the mind because mind is part of that creation. Another way of saying it is the thoughts come too late to effect anything.

Some will argue that thoughts are the creator because they've seen correlations. Correlation does not imply causation.

Thinking about what you want won't hurt anything, it just adds to the thousands of thoughts per second that roll through the mind. You could say it just adds more junk to the creative space.

IMO, living in the present moment (which you mentioned), keeping your focus on what is, an quieting the mind will spark the fires of manifestation for your desires more than a busy, chatty mind using LOA will.

Do I think we have free will? I change my opinion on that month to month. Right now this is what I think: The I, my ego, doesn't have free will and it should stop trying to direct the manifestation of everything and just relax. The I that is my consciousness has free will, but it is way below my conscious awareness to really know.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Dharma

IMO, living in the present moment (which you mentioned), keeping your focus on what is, an quieting the mind will spark the fires of manifestation for your desires more than a busy, chatty mind using LOA will.

But you were never supposed to have a busy, chatty mind while using LOA, remember?

You're supposed to relax, breathe, clear your mind ..... (be present in the moment) ...... and then ...... manifest your intention.

[Steve T]

I think that LOA works but not necessarily for all the reasons in works like The Secret.

The more you focus on what you want the more aware you become of what it is you need to do to get whatever it is.

The more aware you are of what you need to do, the more aware you are of the opportunities that come your way to achieve whatever it is you need to do.

The more aware you are of opportunities, the more likely you are to take them and TAKE ACTION.

The more positive action you take the more likely you are to achieve your goal.

Just my interpretation of the Law of Awareness!

Steve

[Cantando]

I believe there is a law of attraction.

What I think happens is that we prepare the ground in our subconscious and create the conditions to attract whatever we wish to attract. If the conditions are right, we will attract whatever we want to attract.
For example, you wish to attract birds into your garden. You look out of your window and see a bare, concrete yard. You do a bit of research, dig up the concrete, plant a few trees and shrubs, and lo and behold, birds start to appear.

The problem is that there is a negative side. We often prepare the ground subconsciously, through our negative pre-programming and attract stuff which we don't want.
The trick is to bypass our pre-programming and consciously prepare the ground to create the conditions we want.
The pre-programmed level, which we are usually not aware of, is formed from our views, decisions and jusdgements, created in the past and also by the background culture and religion we were raised in.

We can bypass this through meditation and other mental exercises. It is useful to clear out all the junk we have accumulated in our body, mind and nervous system first. This helps to create a clear conduit or channel from our conscious mind down to deeper levels and ultimately to the universal mind.

Regarding flows, there is a continuous flow of giving and receiving.
We ask for help from source/God/unconscious mind and we receive the joy of truth. We give thanks and pass this on to others. They, in return, give thanks and joy to us, which we in turn return to source. The clearer and more open our spiritual lines are, the more we can receive from source and give to others.

We should always ask from the deepest level possible, what we really need to attract, which will be of benefit to ourselves and others.

[Alex2007]

Originally Posted by Steve T

I think that LOA works but not necessarily for all the reasons in works like The Secret.
Steve

I would agree with Steve on this. The Secret is not THAT Secret. There is something deeper than this. It may be a blockbuster, but No Secret have been spread.

And if there is Law of Attraction, it is not simply like "I Think & Attract" issue.
If there is a Law of Attraction, it may not be related to the thought at all, but related to the way we react to the present moment.

Well I already got stuck in these theories, I will stop to what Steve Pavlina Suggested in a blog:

".....Focus entirely on the present...But give your present a velocity instead of seeing it as a fixed point...."

I highlight the "Focus entirely on the present".

This is the law of attraction. And you want my opinion? Those who stuck on "The Secret" are nothing less than compulsive thinkers!!! So in fact, even if blockbuster, "The Secret" didn't spread any secret.

Originally Posted by Dharma

IMO, living in the present moment (which you mentioned), keeping your focus on what is, an quieting the mind will spark the fires of manifestation for your desires more than a busy, chatty mind using LOA will.

This is closer to the New Real Secret I think.

As far as "Free Will" Is concerned, don't bother, it doesn't exist. Theories like "your wish is my command", "name it and it is given" can seriously mislead. This is another story anyway.

I leave it here.

Very good intuitive replies here!!! Thanks!!!

A

[Alex2007]

In Addition,

To hold a Positive Perception of reality like somebody in another thread suggested, we need to hold a story in our mind (probably a dream) in order to support that Positive Perception.

To hold the Pure Reality (The -What Is) is what makes as feel real, alive and on truck. Then we can set a positive velocity from there. This is where the role of Impartial Spectator (Observator) springs from.

There is a difference between the 2 frames above.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Steve T

I think that LOA works but not necessarily for all the reasons in works like The Secret.

The more you focus on what you want the more aware you become of what it is you need to do to get whatever it is.

The more aware you are of what you need to do, the more aware you are of the opportunities that come your way to achieve whatever it is you need to do.

The more aware you are of opportunities, the more likely you are to take them and TAKE ACTION.

The more positive action you take the more likely you are to achieve your goal.

Just my interpretation of the Law of Awareness!

Steve

Yeh, I agree with that. Sometimes that works perfect for me. But then there are those times when we literally give up, and presto things happen in a flash. Like when we are struggling to remember something, and give up, focusing on other things...and the thing we try to remember just comes easily. It makes me think that some people are so worry free, so sure of their way of thinking, that the thought, or the intended manifestation has zero resistance. So, I'm thinking it doesn't matter what way you choose, it is the total lack of fear, doubt, worry and resistance that is important. The being in the right state. Feeling right.

[Alex2007]

[QUOTE=Dharma;114468]@Alex

Originally Posted by Dharma

Thinking about what you want ......................just adds more junk to the creative space.

That's it man...

Originally Posted by Dharma

The I that is my consciousness has free will, but it is way below my conscious awareness to really know.

Very spot on. But I can relate it to the "give your present a velocity" idea above. I still beleive that thought is not the creator, and Dharma's statement above sounds very interesting.

Cool!

Alex

[robertanthony]

Hi Alex

The Secret movie version of the basic law of attraction does distort conscious awareness. From this forum you can read about all the problems people are having with this fantasy formula. There is a pattern here were people discuss their psychological difficulties while others coach them.

Even if people are into universal laws then they have lost the plot because there are 12 and not just one. ONENESS is one of those laws.


www.iloveulove/psychology/univlaws.htm

[Anand]

Hi Alex,

good to see a great enthusiam in u.

my perception is that when we are in the influence of something we consider it to be a law. when we come out of it it is no more a law.

well As long as we feel there r two things apart definitely there is law of attraction. if we can see all the things as a unique thing there is NO LAW of Attraction.

But the uniqueness is made up of diversity. This is the real point to think upon.

Cheers
Anand

[Johnny5]

Alex,

Yes, there is a law of attraction...if you are tall handsome individual, you will attract girls and many opportunities into your life--make sure you are a pleasant individual to be around. Likewise to a beautiful woman will attract guys and opportunities into her life...as long as she is a pleasant person to be with.

as far as the law of attraction that people discussion at this website...It is just someone's invention to play with gullible people's mind...

Let me share some thought in the real world....It operates on "Result Oriented". It means only result will count. There are three kinds of force that people use to get results.

Assertive force: Wise people use assertive force to gain result. They offer value in exchange to gain result in whatever they want...

Coercive force: Clever people use coercive force/manipulative force to gain result. They offer some value in exchange to gain result in whatever they want...but it is not always a fair exchange or a desire exchange by the other party...you know who they are....they just want to take advantage of things where they can put their hands...mind...body...thought and whatever...like those who brought up the Law of Attraction to make a movie called the Secret. So these people are a bunch of opportunists without fair exchange.

Brutal force: Mean people use brutal force to gain results. These people just don't care about anybody but themselves. They kill, they rob, they rape, they murder and do whatever in their power to gain result period!

Remember at your job or employment....they want result...!
In relationship....result oriented.... people believe in result or proof.... only result will count....

Best Regards,

Johnny

[absvan]

I beleive in the Law Of Attraction. There is a universal energy that will assist you in achieving your goals....but you have to act. I have seen a few people here talk about taking minimum or no action and getting what you want. I think thats B.S.

If you didnt get the job, you didnt get it for some reason. Its upto you to find what the reason is, make changes and look for the next opportunity.

Act and stay detached. If you get what you want great, if you dont get what you want, its still great. Practice detachment.