a question from christians

[yasi_joy]

why does christianity consider tarot cards and psychic help bad?
isn't it just helping you to find your way easier through life?
if tarot cards lead you to whats best for you and warns you from what which will cause you harm why does it have to be bad??

thank you

[tropicality]

I think we should all remember why christianity was heavily promoted in its early stages. I think that some of the strong original ideas associated with it are still here today. For example, its something we all learned in school, Galileo and others, who were locked up because of their ideas. Christian clergy said NO! and locked them up.

I think that is why the resentment to tarot cards and the likes exists today, it is deeply rooted.

That is just my opinion.

[Josip]

Tarot can lead you and tell you what is best for you?

How cards do that?

I think it is only superstition, tarot is useful only for fun. But, what cards "tell" you can change your thoughts and thoughts can change your behavior, behavior can change your so called "destiny".

In fact, there is no "destiny" or "talking cards" or horoscope or magic etc., it is only your beliefs encourage your action.

As Henry Ford said; "If you think you can, or you think you can't, you are right."

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by yasi_joy

why does christianity consider tarot cards and psychic help bad?
isn't it just helping you find your way easier through life?
if tarot cards lead you to whats best for you and warns you from what which will cause you har why does it have to be bad??

thank you

I believe the Catholic Church's stance, based on Biblical warnings against using mediums (even though King Saul did), was that they're openings for demonic possession.

Regarding "find your way easier through life", it would be wiser to determine your own purpose, rather than asking someone else or a deck of cards for the answers.

[dorothy hanna]

For those who are aware of the secret, the history of organized religion shows that it quite deliberatly sought to suppress the secret. Those involved sought to hide, and coveted the secret for themselves. This secret is what Jesus taught.
They enslaved people to ignorance, and misinformation, and placed themselves betweeb people, and their creative power, by telling them horror stories, making them fearful of demonic poseesion, hell fire damnation etc...

In other ways, warning people to not waste their time on things that are fruitless, time wasting, money wasting etc...due to ignorance, and superstition isn't a bad thing. But, the Church, and many others capitalized on peoples ignorance, and desperation, and fear. Jesus sought to set people free of this, and was killed for it. But, great news. The secret survived, as Jesus promised in the first place. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!!!

Once you know the truth, the sacred secret, as Jesus put it, you will not go back to ingnorance, as you see THRUTH, all around you, always.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by dorothy hanna

For those who are aware of the secret, the history of organized religion shows that it quite deliberatly sought to suppress the secret. Those involved sought to hide, and coveted the secret for themselves. This secret is what Jesus taught.
They enslaved people to ignorance, and misinformation, and placed themselves betweeb people, and their creative power, by telling them horror stories, making them fearful of demonic poseesion, hell fire damnation etc...

In other ways, warning people to not waste their time on things that are fruitless, time wasting, money wasting etc...due to ignorance, and superstition isn't a bad thing. But, the Church, and many others capitalized on peoples ignorance, and desperation, and fear. Jesus sought to set people free of this, and was killed for it. But, great news. The secret survived, as Jesus promised in the first place. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!!!

Once you know the truth, the sacred secret, as Jesus put it, you will not go back to ingnorance, as you see THRUTH, all around you, always.

I've always been wary of claims of "I have the truth". So, I ask you this before I criticize: what is your source? What is the basis for your statements? And please use fewer exclamation points.

[carl]

Originally Posted by yasi_joy

why does christianity consider tarot cards and psychic help bad?
isn't it just helping you find your way easier through life?
if tarot cards lead you to whats best for you and warns you from what which will cause you har why does it have to be bad??

This would be my guess:

There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
Deuteronomy 18:10 (KJV)

Diviniation (of which Tarot is a form) is considered an abomination.

[placebo]

they say that the most important thing they do is helping people. So if someone is told by tarot lady that he will be happy, he don't have right to feel happy. Beacause church didn't tell him that than some lady? Sounds like pure monopoly

[Richful]

Originally Posted by dorothy hanna

For those who are aware of the secret, the history of organized religion shows that it quite deliberatly sought to suppress the secret. Those involved sought to hide, and coveted the secret for themselves. This secret is what Jesus taught.
They enslaved people to ignorance, and misinformation, and placed themselves betweeb people, and their creative power, by telling them horror stories, making them fearful of demonic poseesion, hell fire damnation etc...

In other ways, warning people to not waste their time on things that are fruitless, time wasting, money wasting etc...due to ignorance, and superstition isn't a bad thing. But, the Church, and many others capitalized on peoples ignorance, and desperation, and fear. Jesus sought to set people free of this, and was killed for it.

If by "The Secret" you mean intention manifestation and the like well the Tarot is a symbolic "how to" manual for just that... and more. The angels on the cards are actually the holy archangels Ariel, Gabriel, Michael and Raphael. One of the cards now known as The Heirophant has been known as The Pope.
The symbolism itself agrees with the bible, but not church doctrine.
Any path of self knowledge is a threat to established religious doctrine.

Fortune tellers aren't all sweetness and light either, within such communities plenty of stories abound of occult gurus who abuse their disciples. IMO divination can only tell u where u are and where u might be if the current course continues. Tarot can be put to use in better ways

I guess the devil is the sticking point with occult stuff. Christianity believes the big bad one is the source of occult forces and he's evil itself, so occult is evil. Funny really, in the Tarot the devil is the force that binds you, but ultimately the force that sets you free.

[Dbarker]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I've always been wary of claims of "I have the truth". So, I ask you this before I criticize: what is your source? What is the basis for your statements? And please use fewer exclamation points.

This seemed to resonate with me and reminded me of a chapter in William Bach's book "One." In it, the main characters encounter a cleric and the three "see the light," so to speak. The one character wishes to write down "the truth" and take it back to the people. The cleric asks questions like, "will you allow anyone to change it?" and "who will keep it from being changed?" etc. It goes to the root of religion versus spirituality. People resort to violence to either defend or spread their religion when spirituality, in its purest form, does not promote such violence.

[Michael Chui]

Incidentally, when I read about Kabbalah (book referenced in signature), it had a few remarks about astrology, as characterized by God's conversation with Abraham and the stars. This was interpreted to mean that, while the rest of humanity would be enslaved to the sovereignty of the stars, the Jewish people would be free of their influence. That is to say, they would have free will.

Divination can be interpreted, thusly, as a surrender of that gift. A thought.

[nyxalpha]

Tarot cards and other forms of divination are inherently spiritual. The 10 commandments state that you shall have no other gods before me. By seeking counsel and knowledge through divination you are putting it before God himself. You might ask then why should Christians seek help from anything, becauase that would inexplicablely put that person or thing before God. I think the reason that divination is condemned specifically is because it claims spiritual knowledge as well as connections in the spiritual world that God never intended there to be. I myself believe that "black magic" such as tarot cards do indeed work, but only because they are empowered by Lucifier. Simple objects can have no power. As CS Lewis would say, we are living in enemy occupied territory.

Tarot cards seek to take from God what is his. An they "work" to a certain extent I am sure. Yet the path of life as a "Christian" (I prefer follower of Jesus), is not supposed to be easy, it is the "strait and narrow path."

[Richful]

Originally Posted by nyxalpha

I think the reason that divination is condemned specifically is because it claims spiritual knowledge as well as connections in the spiritual world that God never intended there to be. I myself believe that "black magic" such as tarot cards do indeed work, but only because they are empowered by Lucifier. Simple objects can have no power. As CS Lewis would say, we are living in enemy occupied territory.

Tarot cards seek to take from God what is his. An they "work" to a certain extent I am sure. Yet the path of life as a "Christian" (I prefer follower of Jesus), is not supposed to be easy, it is the "strait and narrow path."

Simple objects have no power? Is my toaster empowered by Lucifer too?
Is a faith healing gods or lucifers power? Some consider that "magic".
Does that make intention maniestation the devil's work?
Sorry for the sarcasm but a lot of people met gruesome deaths at the hands of "christians" (I don't consider anyone christian who kills others) because of similar ideas.

[KittyG]

One word: Idolatry

[KittyG]

One word:Idolatry . .from Christian Wikipedia,

Idolatry, in Christian theology, is "the worship of a created object (either made by human hands or created by God" rather than worship one would give to the true God Himself. The term "idol" often refers to conceptual constructs such as fame, money, nationality, ethnicity, and the ritual of attachment related to these is considered idolatry. Because a knowledge of God is supposed to transcend the conceptual, residing instead within people's emotional understanding, the theological concept of idolaty is related to the psychological concept of attachment.


My dearest of friends, Erykah Badu says it well in her song:
" . . Most intellects do not believe in God but they fear him just the same . ."


A pastor once said to an atheist; "If there was a God would you want to know him?"
Good question.

Kat

[Adam]

There are a couple of things that I would like to point out real quick...

Non-Christians: The answer "because that is how I interpret the Bible" is a perfectly valid one to this question. The question was why they believe that divinations tools are evil. If the question didn't include the word 'believe,' then there would be a very hot debate in here, indeed, because the definition of evil is a very subjective one. Please keep in mind that these people are sharing their beliefs, not forcing them down your throat.

Christians: Not everybody believes in the concept of a devil. Personally, it is an extremely alien concept. I'm not saying that you should stop trying to help people, but the argument that if someone doesn't shape up, they'll go to hell doesn't hold any weight if that person doesn't believe in hell to begin with. Keep that in mind, and you'll have much more success in inter-religious debates.

There are a lot of good comments on both side... Please, though, try not to attack anyone's beliefs directly. Using the words "my opinion is" goes a *very* long way in getting your point across without people getting defensive.

[yasi_joy]

black magic is totally seprate from tarot cards

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by KittyG

One word:Idolatry . .from Christian Wikipedia,

Idolatry, in Christian theology, is "the worship of a created object (either made by human hands or created by God" rather than worship one would give to the true God Himself. The term "idol" often refers to conceptual constructs such as fame, money, nationality, ethnicity, and the ritual of attachment related to these is considered idolatry. Because a knowledge of God is supposed to transcend the conceptual, residing instead within people's emotional understanding, the theological concept of idolaty is related to the psychological concept of attachment.

FYI, Kat: you can edit your own posts. There's an Edit button next to the Quote button.

When you say "Christian theology", do you include Catholic doctrine? How about Mormonism? When you say "worship", where is the line between healthy respect, veneration, and worship? When you say "created object", do you include the Bible or any other purportedly authoritative reference material (such as the Christian Wikipedia)?

Also, what is the basis for the placement of "emotional understanding" above "conceptual understanding"?

[KittyG]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

FYI, Kat: you can edit your own posts. There's an Edit button next to the Quote button.

When you say "Christian theology", do you include Catholic doctrine? How about Mormonism? When you say "worship", where is the line between healthy respect, veneration, and worship? When you say "created object", do you include the Bible or any other purportedly authoritative reference material (such as the Christian Wikipedia)?

Also, what is the basis for the placement of "emotional understanding" above "conceptual understanding"?

Michael,
As I said, the definition is from Christian Wikipedia . .

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by KittyG

Michael,
As I said, the definition is from Christian Wikipedia . .

Post a link?

And shouldn't you be able to answer these questions yourself?

[Richful]

Idolatry, in Christian theology, is "the worship of a created object (either made by human hands or created by God" rather than worship one would give to the true God Himself. The term "idol" often refers to conceptual constructs such as fame, money, nationality, ethnicity, and the ritual of attachment related to these is considered idolatry. Because a knowledge of God is supposed to transcend the conceptual, residing instead within people's emotional understanding, the theological concept of idolaty is related to the psychological concept of attachment.

Tarot cards aren't meant to be worshiped, they are a tool. IMO a tool or discipline for communion with god. Prayer is also a tool/discipline for the same purpose.
Last week in Brisbane all the church leaders got together to pray for rain as we're in a serious drought. I heard a sermon (on TV) about how prayer matures over time from asking for stuff to alligning yourself with gods will, Tarot is the same.
Incidentally it did rain, a lot, yesterday we had a storm which blew the roofs of several churches.