Scientology...

[Shamou]

I am rather intrigued by Scientology... I must admit that I never looked into it... and all that I have heard about it was negative...

However, the fact that people like, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Catherine Bell, Beck, Jason Lee, Isaac Hayes, Tom Cruise, and Katie Holmes are members tells me that there must be something to it...

So, I was wondering if anyone could share whatever thoughts they have on the subject...
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[Jonathan Browne]

Read dianetics. It's actually pretty damn interesting.

[ppedersen]

Well, if you are looking for an honest view, I can only give you my own. I have been a Scientologist my entire life. I love it! The greatest thing about Scientology to me is actually the knowledge of life itself. No where else can you find out about the mind, spirit and life as completely and axiomatically as in Scientology. Do check out http://bpi.goldenageofknowledge.net if you care to get just a glimpse of the technology contained in Scientology.

Scientology is not a belief system, but rather a technology of life. When applied, spiritual gains are more than you can imagine.

Really the best way to learn about what Scientology, rather than reading the press or hearing someone's negative comments, would be to read a book by L. Ron Hubbard, such as Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health.

As to Scientology celebrities, you are absolutely right. Perhaps you may have forgot to mention a few others, including Lisa Marie Presley, Priscilla Presley, Jenna Elfman, Kelly Preston, Chick Corea, Danny Masterson, Doug E. Fresh, Erika Christensen, Giovanni Ribisi, Jennifer Aspen, Kate Ceberano, Juliette Lewis, Leah Remini, Marisol Nichols, Sofia Milos and many others.

Scientologists, in addition to their religious activities, also have one of the largest anti-drug campaigns in the world, it has the largest non-governmental disaster relief force in the world, it is supporting human rights around the world, increasing education as well as morals the world over.

You might be interested in my blog. I cover just about anything relating to Scientology, among other things. Spiritually Inclined to Inform Your Mind

Hope that helps.

[Akashic_Librarian]

So ppedersen, you believe in the Thetans? And Lord Xenu? (sorry if thats the wrong spelling)

I mean the story is this:

75 million years ago, there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu who was in charge of 76 planets in our sector of the galaxy, including planet Earth, whose name at that time was Teegeeack.

All of the planets Xenu controlled were over-populated by, on average, 178 billion people. Social problems dictated that Xenu rid his sector of the galaxy of this overpopulation problem, so he developed a plan.

Xenu sent out Tax Audit demands to all these billions of people.

As each one entered the audit centers for the income tax inspections, the people were seized, held down and injected with a mixture of alcohol and glycol, and frozen. Then, all 13.5 trillion of these frozen people were put into spaceships that looked exactly like DC8 airplanes, except that the spaceships had rocket engines instead of propellers.

Xenu's entire fleet of DC8-like spaceships then flew to planet Earth, where the frozen people were dumped in and around volcanoes in the Canary Islands and the Hawaiian Islands. When Xenu's Air Force had finished dumping the bodies into the volcanoes, hydrogen bombs were dropped into the volcanoes and the frozen space aliens were destroyed.

However, Xenu's plan involved setting up electronic traps in Teegeeack's atmosphere which were designed to trap the souls or spirits of the dead space aliens. When the 13.5 trillion spirits were being blown around on the nuclear winds, the electronic traps worked like a charm and captured all the souls in the electronic, sticky fly-paper like traps.

The spirits of the aliens were then taken to huge multiplex cinemas that Xenu had previously instructed his forces to build on Teegeeack. In these movie theaters the spirits had to spend many days watching special 3-D movies, the purpose of which was twofold: 1) to implant into these spirits a false reality, i.e. the reality that WOGS (Hubbard's derisory term for anyone not a Scientologists) know on Earth today; and, 2) to control these spirits for all eternity so that they could never cause trouble for Xenu in this sector of the Galaxy. During these films, many false pictures were implanted into these spirits, which resulted in the spirits believing in all the things that control mankind on Earth today, including religion. The concept of religion, including God, Christ, Mohammed, Moses etc., were all an implanted false reality that to this very minute is used to control WOGS on Earth.

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema, they started to stick together in clusters of a few thousand and remained that way until mankind began to inhabit the Earth. Today on Earth all the spirits of these aliens have attached themselves to our bodies and are the root cause of the false reality that all but Scientology's "Homo Novis" or OT 8's on earth experience. It is the job of all Scientologists to remove this false reality from the world by auditing each and every space alien spirit and human on earth to CLEAR not only this planet but the universe. For those who oppose Scientology and stand in their way like the Lisa McPherson Trust and all Scientology critics, Scientology promises to do away with them "quietly and without sorrow".

How...I mean...not to sound rude or anything but that is ridiculous...

MAYBE there was a galactic government, MAYBE there was someone similar to Lord Xenu, MAYBE he had them killed...but SOULS being caught in Soul-Catchers...scientifically...just...wrong.

And DC8 Spaceships...thats got to be a joke right?

And whats worse is you charge people frankly absurd sums of money for the benefit of having "Body Thetans" removed...I mean $126USD per BT...*cough* Rip off *cough*

Yes maybe some of the spiritual practices work, I am not refuting it...but its story it provides is pure money grabbing nonsense.

[Addict]

Originally Posted by Shamou

However, the fact that people like, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Catherine Bell, Beck, Jason Lee, Isaac Hayes, Tom Cruise, and Katie Holmes are members tells me that there must be something to it...

It really shouldn't. I don't know why our culture is so obsessed with celebrities, but celebrities are just about the last people I look to for role models.

Scientology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In my opinion, Scientology is a cult designed to make money. It's bad science fiction written by a science fiction author. The stuff about Xenu is absolutely ridiculous and you'll end up paying a lot of money to hear it too. It looks like Akashic already has this one covered, so I won't go into. Please, just go ahead and read the wikipedia article, specifically the controversy and criticism. My advice is, if you are still intrigued even after reading about the ridiculous backstory behind this and the overwhelming amount of criticism against it, go ahead and try it, but be very, very careful. I'm fairly certain Steve said he tried it once, but it wasn't for him. Experimentation is usually the key if you are undecided, but it sounds bogus to me and I don't need to try it to find that out.

[Shamou]

ppedersen! Thank you for sharing your experience with us...

Two of my gurus, Dr. David Singer and Werner Erhard (people for whom I have the highest respect) have found value in Scientology... They are both exceptional persons and I have much respect for their opinion...

AL... I find your reaction quite typical... and that's a good part of what intrigues me... why do people get so emotional about that subject... if you look into any religion... you find very weird beliefs... why should Scientology be any different...???

I am probably the least religious person under the sun (though I call myself spiritual) I have no intention of embracing Scientology but I do believe that some good notions or principles could be gotten out of it... thus the purpose of this thread...
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[Akashic_Librarian]

Like I said Shamou...some of it...the prinicples of it, are good. But its over-shadowed by evil lord Xenu (who is supposedly in Galactic Jail... ) and his DC8 Rocket-ships.

And I get mad at all religion...its just Scientology is blatently ridiculous.

Every religion in my opinion, holds some tiny element of truth, and its up to intelligent people to sift through it and find the gems of knowledge, and discard the worthless jargon...for example...be kind to your neighbou,r, an honourable christian principle....Rape my wife and daughter, but not my Male guest...is NOT such an honourable principle...neither is believeing you got to hell if you have sex outside of marriage....

Its all relative really...

Eventually it will either vanish into the haze (scientology that is) or become protected by anti-racism laws and given the right to spit flaming acid at science, but becomes untouchable when it is refuted....

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Its all relative really...

You said it... it's all relative... however, that post got a good chuckle out of me...

As you experience more AL... you'll find out just how much crap there is floating around on this little planet... the trick is to rise above it and truly enjoy the human comedy... best show in town...
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[Akashic_Librarian]

Haha Shamou people keep telling me that! Eventually I will grow up, no signs of it happening yet lol.

[Steve Pavlina]

My opinion, based on person experience:

Scientology = interesting ideas, highly aware people committed to personal growth, (mostly unknowingly) serving a shady organization with a power structure rooted in deception.

Is it a cult? Yes, no doubt. It meets all the known criteria that define a cult (custom vocabulary, inbred socialization, etc).

In the long run, if you stick with it and pump plenty of cash into it -- it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to reach the higher levels -- you'll emerge a pretty committed darkworker. If the darkworker path is appealing to you, Scientology may help accelerate your progress. I wouldn't recommend it for lightworker types though.

Some of those emerging darkworkers have turned against the Church of Scientology at the end. The sparks really fly when that happens.

[Shamou]

My sentiments exactly Steve... thanks for putting it into a more concise format...
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[Brutha]

AL... I find your reaction quite typical... and that's a good part of what intrigues me... why do people get so emotional about that subject... if you look into any religion... you find very weird beliefs... why should Scientology be any different...???

1. Because of something which scientologists themselve called the "fair play" policy. Every opponent of scientology has to be destroyed.

When you publically take a stand against scientology they try to destroy you personally. Because they often use illegal means to do so they have a lot of lawsuits against them.

I am probably the least religious person under the sun (though I call myself spiritual) I have no intention of embracing Scientology but I do believe that some good notions or principles could be gotten out of it... thus the purpose of this thread...

2. The secrecy principle (you aren't allowed to have level two knowlege before you make level one and level three before level two and so on) makes pick and choosing very difficult.

In addition quiting scientology after taken a bit of scientology knowledge is very difficult because that makes you an enemy of scientology. That means all your friends at scientology have to cut their ties from you.
In addition you probably have revealed a few of your weeknesses during a "overcome your weeknesses"-session. That might be secrets that you don't want to be public knowledge.
If you leave the might become.
3. Their war against psychology and psychiatry. You can't use any of them when you need them because they are forbidden.

[Angela]

The people I've known who are scientologists are moderate in the same way as most of the people I've been close to who follow other religions. They don't necessarily buy into or even know about the goofy fictional stuff (none of the christians I pal around with actually believe that jesus literally was born of a virgin, and how many mormons wear sacred symbols on the underwear to protect them from harm?)

Just like many other religious moderates, they use the stuff that works in their own life and disregard the rest, at least until they're confronted by Kirk Cameron. The a la carte approach to religious belief seems to be the one most people around me adopt.

I took a bunch of "classes" in scientology when I was a teenager, and never heard word one then about any of the sci fi stuff. I don't remember any of that showing up in 'Dianetics', either. My guess is that's probably true for many followers of scientology.

All of the things Steve listed in his post (shady organization with power structure rooted in deception; custom vocabulary; inbred socialization; pump plenty of cash in to reach higher level; apostasy makes the sparks fly) -- all of these things can quite easily be applied to any religious organization. Why denigrate one religion, as though all of them didn't bear responsibility for perpetrating the same conditions in the world -- some that help, some that hurt.

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

My opinion, based on person experience:
Some of those emerging darkworkers have turned against the Church of Scientology at the end. The sparks really fly when that happens.

Oh, I know, and I love it!!! Makes me grow a big fat rubbery one.

I told them, I said when someone at the OT level becomes subversive, you need to recruit them as an executive and ship them to a developing country. Did they listen? Ohhhh no, and now what? There's the Reformed CofS, New CofS, Free Zone, etc, etc, etc. Likewise, you need to adjust how you're creating those metric stats, because you're giving members an incentive to probe rather than pay...

...Morons...but at least they didn't loose their soul....

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Angela

All of the things Steve listed in his post (shady organization with power structure rooted in deception; custom vocabulary; inbred socialization; pump plenty of cash in to reach higher level; apostasy makes the sparks fly) -- all of these things can quite easily be applied to any religious organization. Why denigrate one religion, as though all of them didn't bear responsibility for perpetrating the same conditions in the world -- some that help, some that hurt.

Very true. How much has the Catholic Church had to pay to settle all those child molestation lawsuits?

[Asmoday]

Well, at least Scientology gives you some return....

...the experience of others might have been different, but my mother was hard-core Catholic. I just remember her feeling guilty and inadequate most of the time.

Oh, yeah, and with Scientology and don't forget, they help people with literacy.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAARG :-P

[Tasaio]

Angela, Steve, Shamou, did you miss Brutha's post?

Scientology controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds like true terrorism to me.

Shamou, I recommend learning what you can online and in books, and movies. But stay away from the dangerous people.

Comparing Scientology to Catholicism is a false analogy. All of these *ancient* religions have a history in human development...that's why they're still here. I don't agree with them, but I understand that they carry over from history.

But Scientology is a new, unnecessary cult -- not a true religion -- that is far more pervasive in its isolation of members than, say, the Catholic Church.

More importantly, it is arising in the developed world when the older religions are finally beginning to leave. It's taken us years to discard obselete religious beliefs against contraception, homosexuality, etc...

But, at least these religions have the barest glimmer of logic ('killing a potential human is wrong')...we can see their points of view.

Yet the scientologists are opposed to psychiatry, the study of the mind -- something that is becoming more important than ever.

I am so greatful that I was able to get medication for my depression. Scientology would have forbidden that.

And finally, I take issue with the name "SCIEN-tology". It makes it sound as though it is based on the scientific method, which it is not.

I also find it amusing that their symbol, their stupid cross, is so similar to anther religion's symbol -- yet they defend its copyright so vigorously.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

Sounds like true terrorism to me.

I am the original skeptic... so I certainly would not embrace Scientology... however I know that they have some very good points for business application and that is what I was interested in...

And as far as being terrorists... have you ever heard of Islam...??? The crusades... the Jews trying to destroy the Arabs...???

All religions are based on violence... the first of which is Catholicism... as in, if you are not of the true faith and don't follow its teachings... you go to hell, literally... how's about that for terrorism...???
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[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I am the original skeptic... so I certainly would not embrace Scientology... however I know that they have some very good points for business application and that is what I was interested in...

And as far as being terrorists... have you ever heard of Islam...??? The crusades... the Jews trying to destroy the Arabs...???

All religions are based on violence... the first of which is Catholicism... as in, if you are not of the true faith and don't follow its teachings... you go to hell, literally... how's about that for terrorism...???
.

What's your point?

Islamic extremists are terrorists. Duh. And yes, I'm familiar with the Crusades.

But those are either (a) extremists, or (b) history long past.

Scientology's "terrorist" activities are confined neither to history nor to extremists -- it is the mainstream religion that says it's acceptable to "destroy" its enemies -- not through suicide bombers, mind you, but through lies, scandals, and intimidation.

And that is precisely why I am arguing, not so much for the other religions, but against Scientology. It possesses those same characteristics you mentioned in other religions. If you don't follow Scientology, you'll be enslaved by Lord Xenu...

Look, I hate many things about Catholicism and Islam, but I must credit them for coming a long way. Many of its members are trying hard to improve, and I commend them for it.

[Iksander]

Despite Scientology being such a retarded idea, I have to be thankful that it's here because it provides a contrast giving you a clear line of sight to the "Sheep that poop on the brown grass to make it look greener" and the "Individuals that sow seed into the brown grass to make it greener."

Scientology is too dumb to deserve hate. They really do eat their own poo.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

But those are either (a) extremists, or (b) history long past.

What about Irak...??? What's beneath that war...??? How many people were killed over religious beliefs...??? Is that ancient history...???
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[Brutha]

I took a bunch of "classes" in scientology when I was a teenager, and never heard word one then about any of the sci fi stuff. I don't remember any of that showing up in 'Dianetics', either. My guess is that's probably true for many followers of scientology.

It's level three knowledge.
People who haven't reached level two aren't able to understand the story, so it has to be kept hidden from them.
This includes every non-scientologist.
In addition you can't take level four before you have understand the xenu story.
It a nice psychological trick of forcing people to buy into that reality model to bond them stronger to the organisation.
It doesn't work very well to get new members so the xenu story doesn't get told to non-scientologist or new scientologists (those before level 3).

All of the things Steve listed in his post (shady organization with power structure rooted in deception; custom vocabulary; inbred socialization; pump plenty of cash in to reach higher level; apostasy makes the sparks fly)

I didn't know that you can buy/have to pay for saint status in the catholic church.
The Catholic church also doesn't force people to cut their own famaly tries with non-catholic members.