Real Happiness : Q&A

[shivraj]

Seeker: What is real happiness?

Teacher: Real happiness is not that happiness which you get when you achieve something. The mind has cast a shadow over the real 'you', the nature of which is happiness. When the mind falls - then what is behind the mind - that Truth manifests. And when that happens, it is real happiness. Suppose you have an aim, a desire to achieve something or to own something. And when you actually achieve it - then the mind, that was thriving only on that desire - falls for some moments since the desire has been fulfilled. And in those few moments of no-mind, you experience emptiness and you call this as happiness or bliss. All happiness you have ever experienced is only because of the mind getting empty, because of the no mind state, because of the lifting of the shadow of the mind.

But you get the notion that 'because' the target was completed - you got happiness. Because you got what you desired - you got happiness. Because of this wrong notion, desire for newer and more things increase. But, anything that gives you lots of happiness today, does not give you the same amount of happiness later. After some time, happiness diminishes. It ends. Real happiness, which is your nature, is shadowed by the mind. When that is experienced, it being your nature, is not dependant on external situations and never diminishes.

This happiness is beyond happiness and sorrow... beyond polarities for which there is no opposite. To cite an example, the opposite of 'success' is 'failure'. Similarly: hot - cold, up - down, love - hate etc. - these words are interrelated. But what is beyond both opposites is 'bright'. What is beyond love and hate is 'bright' love. This is beyond happiness and grief. When you come to know of that 'One', then you are liberated from duality.

[vprao]

Very true shivraj! Once you get a taste of real happiness, you slowly start losing interest in material things.

[Old Soul]

Exactly!!

and in that place of true joy... material things , are just that ... material things, because you realise this is not real life , it is not what gave you that state of oneness and steadfastness... your real life is more than material things

[Mark Lapierre]

If real happiness is shadowed by the mind then any enjoyable activity which involves the mind cannot be experienced as real happiness. My personal experiences, and the tales of many other people's experiences, deny that implication.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

If real happiness is shadowed by the mind then any enjoyable activity which involves the mind cannot be experienced as real happiness. My personal experiences, and the tales of many other people's experiences, deny that implication.

This is what confuses many people... what they really mean here Mark, is Ultimate happiness... your experiences are real for you, which make the moment a moment of "real" happiness. What the posters here are really referring to is not temporary happiness but rather the idea of supreme happiness, which overrides any momentary pleasure. Momentary pleasure and/or happy experiences are "real", but fleeting... Ultimate true happiness is something far beyond that state, and is a pre-supposed state of pleasure even in the midst of trial, however it is not practically achievable in an ultimate sense, but rather it is an ideal of a perpetual state of joy and peace and serenity. Yet we have experienced moments close to these in our lives.

[Mark Lapierre]

My understanding of "real" happiness is a kind of joy that, while possibly inspired by a momentary event, is a pervasive, lasting feeling that does not rely on any particular event for its existence. So an passing event may heighten the feeling, or such an event may first allow us to notice the feeling, but the feeling is not necessarily tied to the event.

It seems that agrees with the achievable experience of the ideal that you Chado, and everyone else are referring to. No?

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

My understanding of "real" happiness is a kind of joy that, while possibly inspired by a momentary event, is a pervasive, lasting feeling that does not rely on any particular event for its existence. So an passing event may heighten the feeling, or such an event may first allow us to notice the feeling, but the feeling is not necessarily tied to the event.

It seems that agrees with the achievable experience of the ideal that you Chado, and everyone else are referring to. No?

Now I see you understand this concept a little... the moments of what I'd rather term Ultimate happiness, than "real", are not inspired by any event or any external criteria however... instead it is a state of mind where happiness occurs inspite of the event... Both types are real in their own way. This is akin to being cheerful in a depressing situation... it also supercedes materialism, because the bliss is more internal... The type of happiness that is dependent upon circumstand or material gain is completely artificial by comparison. Not that it isn't real in a sense, but it is of a lesser degree. The wisdom that comes out of being happy in any situation anywhere is a much more powerful motive. This is the type of happiness that goes beyond materialism. It is the same happiness that goes beyond circumstance. Circumstance that brings happiness is less spiritual and comes not from one's source of power (unless they create that circumstance). There are many different types of happiness... This Supreme happiness is only glimpsed, and brough forth, but it is only attainable in the sense that it is brought out from within. In other words it is pre-existing.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

Now I see you understand this concept a little... the moments of what I'd rather term Ultimate happiness, than "real", are not inspired by any event or any external criteria however... instead it is a state of mind where happiness occurs inspite of the event... Both types are real in their own way. This is akin to being cheerful in a depressing situation... it also supercedes materialism, because the bliss is more internal... The type of happiness that is dependent upon circumstand or material gain is completely artificial by comparison. Not that it isn't real in a sense, but it is of a lesser degree. The wisdom that comes out of being happy in any situation anywhere is a much more powerful motive. This is the type of happiness that goes beyond materialism. It is the same happiness that goes beyond circumstance. Circumstance that brings happiness is less spiritual and comes not from one's source of power (unless they create that circumstance). There are many different types of happiness... This Supreme happiness is only glimpsed, and brough forth, but it is only attainable in the sense that it is brought out from within. In other words it is pre-existing.

Yes, that's how I understand what people refer to as 'real' or 'ultimate' happiness. But I don't agree with the suggestion that this happiness is in any way superior to a happiness where the mind is still present. Perhaps it feels better, and perhaps it is the realisation of one's true nature. But how does that help if it's an ideal which isn't achievable?

Wouldn't it be more realistic, practical, and ultimately beneficial, to try to attain a degree of happiness which doesn't preclude the very thing which allowed us to reach our comparatively advanced state, and which allows further development (spiritual and otherwise)?

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Wouldn't it be more realistic, practical, and ultimately beneficial, to try to attain a degree of happiness which doesn't preclude the very thing which allowed us to reach our comparatively advanced state, and which allows further development (spiritual and otherwise)?

What I meant by unattainable is not that it can't be felt or used, but in that it is like a vibration that is close to you. It is attainable in this sense, but to attain the wisdom of it in totatility is impossible. You can experience it, and keep it for lengthy period of times... this is the type of vibration that new-agers speak about when they speak of "positive feelings". Both types of happiness you are discussing are genuine and neither are right or wrong. The pre-existing vibrations seem to be more of a spiritual nature which is why most people would rather tie into this because you can "tap" into it anytime anywhere (supposedly), or it can just be something that comes out from yourself. When circumstances and possessions bring happiness, usually this type of happiness is of a lesser quality for most people, because they see these as an end, rather than a continuous formation of building one stone upon another. Often times these sensations are less profound than the bliss of perpetual joy. I do agree with your notion of progressive learning. Progressive learning is much better than seeking out this state of supreme happiness, because you are focused on the path of learning, rather than seeking supremecy, you allow yourself to be a beacon of light on a troublesome path. This is like the Buddhist philosophy that Wayne Deyer talks about in one of his c.d.'s "Before enlightenment, chop wood carry water. After enlightnment chop wood carry water." The point of that saying is that even after you have an insight, or gained wisdom, happiness or whatever it is that you are seeking, that your situation may not change only the perspective changes. Some believe this type of awareness however is miniscule because the next phase to them would be that of "when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." The Buddhist philosophy is not out of sync with that notion, because there is indeed a shift in perspective. But even enlightnment can be fleeting, and momentary. It is a misconception to believe otherwise. So, the answer to your question "Wouldn't it be more realistic, practical, and ultimately beneficial, to try to attain a degree of happiness which doesn't preclude the very thing which allowed us to reach our comparatively advanced state, and which allows further development?" Is really yes and no, to put it simplistically. The no is because all forms of happiness can be attributed to a pre-clusive state when studied deep enough. The yes is because in order to grow, we must allow ourselves the freedom to accept that growth (which gives the illusion of supreme happiness as the goal beyond reach, but it is only beyond reach because the perfection of it is impossible, but this is not to say that it cannot be experienced in certain forms.) I hope that makes sense.

[wongmo]

Attaining True Happiness has a very definite cause. Our ego clinging blocks us from seeing it all the time. It's not only our true nature, but it is the nature of all phenomena.