Attract & Seduce

[m18pak]

This is a forum for self-improvement, and this sub-section of the forum is for developing social skills.

Obviously, people want to improve in this aspect.

But I am wondering, how much would you actually want to improve by?

I'm curious, how many here would actually want the ability to attract and seduce sexual partners at will?

In other words, if you were offered the chance to transform yourself into a real-life Femme Fatale or Don Juan, would you take it?

I'm talking a full-blown seducer, one who could approach just about any woman (or man) and have a very good chance of getting laid that very day or night.

Would you actually want that?

If not, why not?

[smallstar]

Cheers,

I can't find any reason why anyone would refuse such a gift, whatever their situation is. Seduction is a skill among others, like Mathematics for example. Of course, if you prefer to have a single partner (or none at all), you just don't use that skill, or restrict its use to your own bedroom.

More realistically, you could say that the skill actually is available to anyone, but you have to pay a varying cost of your invested resources to achieve it (mostly in time and effort). People living in successful relationships, or people without enough interest, therefore, would not necessarily want to pay the cost.

Have a Dark day, SS

[Akashic_Librarian]

Hmm I would like it. But as mentioned above, only for use in the bedroom

I don't like the idea of seducing women all the time, too many STD's floating around these days.

[Asmoday]

This is, of course, my favorite topic

However, you don't have to "full close" each time you seduce someone, and, I think it is imperative for men -- in order to be truly balanced and confident, to know that they can.

[Bitsy]

You cannot be serious!

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

You cannot be serious!

You cannot be in indignant denial!

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

You cannot be in indignant denial!

You have no idea what I'm in .

But I thought we were aspiring for personal development, not decadence or deterioration, or personal indulgence in carnal pleasures and narcissism. This is a high school mentality--my brother grew out of it in his early 20's.

Moreover, men get "seduced" by a woman when she isn't even doing anything, even when she wants him to leave her alone and has no intention of seducing. Men are obnoxious about it. As a woman, you even have to censor the clothes you wear and sometimes they still look.

Who cares about seduction, or even sex? It's meaningless, utterly meaningless! So some guy, or many guys, want to do this thing with me, who cares?? It's nothing! He doesn't care about me! Sex in and of itself is completely empty and meaningless.

Men are weak in this area of life and I could see the point in engaging in seduction to live out my anger, seduce them and then leave them cold and walk away laughing at them, but, as per my definition of personal development, I have a conscience (a word rarely seen or referred to on these forums), and it is outright wrong to take advantage of another person's weaknesses.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Bitsy....your strongly opinionated on this I see.

Carnal Pleasure, decadence and "deterioration" as you so negatively put it, are part of our Primal nature. Sex is fun. First and foremost its vital to our races survival. Second its a spiritual thing, its the entwining of two people in love, Male or Female, lastly its just good fun, its good stress relief, its good exercise!

In my opinion to be a complete person, you must accept all sides of yourself, including the dirty, sex-driven nympho that lives in the back of our minds, supressed by societal values based on fear. If you want higher-mentality, advanced socio-political discussions with reasoned, matured, and alligned individuals, you first have to climb up the ladder to reach them, and as I see it, the only way to get up there is to start building a ladder, one rung at a time.

[Asmoday]

I'm sorry you were hurt once, Bitsy. I truly am.

But, you can take all that power back if you let go of that fear and anger and simply give in to that deep desire that you try to tell yourself isn't there:

Let go. Be free. Stop trying to control everything.

Go have mind-shattering, ego-dissolving, sweat-drenched sex

[Christian223]

Well, personally i wouldnt want to, because it doesnt really bring happyness, after all, what is the primary reason that men are looking for when they get into pickup arts?, sex with many girls as they want, its a numbers game, not actually about enjoying sex, otherwise they would just learn about tantra, or sexology, and get one partner to enjoy those pleasures or just masturbating.

But i think that there is a universal male fantasy of becoming a Don Juan, and by fulfilling it one is getting a feeling of importance, its an ego boost, a way of proobing self worth, something to boast about, a way to gain self-esteem, so i belive that it is an un-realistic way of living, produced by un-healthy beliefs or problems... its kind of a way of living that is detached from reality, as if happyness where achieved by making millions of dollars or by having sex with thousands of women.

I have been learning about pickup arts myself, not with the purpose of becoming and Don Juan, but to understand the oposite sex, and to actually be able to seduce when i want, to be attractive when i want and who i want, to get rid of my insecurities also of not knowing what to do or how to do it, to understand why things happen they way they happen, and i think its great to know about it to keep a long term relationship fun and exiting, but not to get laid every night with a different lady.

I think both men and women should take some effort to learn how to seduce their partner, its about their duty to make eachother happy.

[openeyes]

Well Asmoday DID say you don’t always have to close the deal …

Bitsy, you mention guys being obnoxious about sex. That’s the guys who have little experience at being successful with women. After a while a guy can just be playful and not really care about the individual outcome.

You also mention women being able to seduce a man without even trying. It would seem that letting men be similarly skilled would simply be evening the playing field, bringing us all closer to equality

Right now I’m mostly a cuddly, playful person. It’s fun just having people to talk and hang out with. Oh, but I do love giving massages. People don’t usually mind too much.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Bitsy....your strongly opinionated on this I see.

Opinions are formed from experience.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Carnal Pleasure, decadence and "deterioration" as you so negatively put it, are part of our Primal nature. Sex is fun. First and foremost its vital to our races survival. Second its a spiritual thing, its the entwining of two people in love, Male or Female, lastly its just good fun, its good stress relief, its good exercise!

You have taken my words out of context and diverted from my point. I was only referring to sex in the 4th paragraph of my post, all the rest was in reference to the subject of this thread, which was about the desire to seduce anyone you want.

There is absolutely nothing spiritual or loving about sex in seduction, on the contrary, it is the deliberate, conscious manipulation and controlling of another person by virtue of a weakness they have, and for the purpose of feeding the ego, male or female--a manifestation of self-love (in the negative sense). It's lording power over someone weaker than you are. It's nearly a manifestation of hostility, as in the example I gave of seducing men to get revenge.

To add to that, sex is nothing on its own, not loving, not spiritual, not selfish, or bad, or good. Only people assign to it what they say it is or they make it one thing or another by how they use it. So the adjectives I used above were to be applied within the context of sex in seduction, it's my opinion of that use.

I'm not talking about societal values either, I'm talking about conscience, I'm talking about not hurting other people and treating them with respect, like human beings and not objects to boost one's ego or self-image, or because some guy has his source of self-worth with his "organ," or with the number of people he could coax to have sex with him. People are not numbers or things. They are individual human beings with hearts and minds.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

In my opinion to be a complete person, you must accept all sides of yourself, including the dirty, sex-driven nympho that lives in the back of our minds

yes...

Btw: I like what Christian said a lot, in the first paragraph, I agree with him.

Asmoday: Thanks, it was plenty more than once, and I can't let myself do what you said, otherwise I would have done it by now . I haven't found someone I want to do it with.

Why don't I care about being able to seduce anyone I want? Because I already can. I make efforts to avoid men's attention, actually. Don't want it.

Now...I'm sorry, I have to bow out of this, in fact, take a break from the forums all together, since the temptation to write is too great and it is proving counterproductive to my personal improvement. I never should have posted on this thread! So I won't be responding to any further posts. Maybe I'll come back and read afterwards to test if I've really gotten over this problem...

[Plato]

Originally Posted by m18pak

I'm curious, how many here would actually want the ability to attract and seduce sexual partners at will?

In other words, if you were offered the chance to transform yourself into a real-life Femme Fatale or Don Juan, would you take it?

I'm talking a full-blown seducer, one who could approach just about any woman (or man) and have a very good chance of getting laid that very day or night.

Would you actually want that?

If not, why not?

Imagine being THAT guy. Not the sleazy seducer- the kind of guy that women genuinely love.

You have a CHOICE of women. You wouldn't stick it in the first hole with a pulse that you can find. In fact, you'd probably view sex the same way women do- something fun, but ultimately meaningless. Something you get BORED of quickly.

From the position of abundance anybody who chases sex seems pathetic- see Bitsy's posts . But she doesn't know what it's like to be on the OTHER SIDE. The position of scarcity.

Most men are so sexually starved that sex still has a NOVELTY factor. Copping off is like getting that toy you really wanted for christmas only to find it boring once you've pressed all the buttons on it and run around the house being excited for a few hours.

Once the novelty fades you won't want sex except with someone you care about and who cares for you. You won't settle for anything less than wonderful.

[XeutonMojukai]

I agree with Bitsy:

Taking advantage of a woman is wrong.

What I would use this for is not taking advantage, but rather to gain confidence and otherwise just be myself anyway.

I want a long-term, satisfying relationship: I'll never be a bachelor. So I just want some understanding of how to seduce my lover, and honestly I'm already really good at it in that regard.

So my answer is yes, I'd like it, but my answer is on the condition that the use is not for sex with insecure women (I've known too many such used women to let myself do that).

Bitsy: you will meet the perfect man, and you'll know him when you see him.

Just don't look for him. In true Murphy's Law fashion, love only comes when you stop looking (and I'm sure you already know that).

~ David

[Max0r]

I'm enjoying this thread so far. Keep it up yalls.

[Bitsy]

Ok, just one last post .

Since I am a girl writing this, we have jumped on men as being the "bad guys," but I want to say it is men with the weakness and there are at least as many women eager to use that weakness, I see it in them, it is a form of power the woman wields over men. There are "nice" girls that can fall in love with a man (their weakness would be emotional I guess) who will then get her into bed (btw, never happened to me and never will), likewise, there are girls who seduce men and use their weakness. I think it's bad to take advantage of this weakness, even if the man wants it. Ideally, the man wouldn't be vulnerable to seduction, but women know this weakness and take advantage, even if it might look innocent.

Originally Posted by XeutonMojukai

Bitsy: you will meet the perfect man, and you'll know him when you see him.

~ David

Thanks for the words of encouragement

Ok, now I'm signing off to devote myself to uprooting my complainer seed and ridding myself of the emotional issue I have with this topic

[kgiuliani]

I actually became that person for a while

It wasn't so great

Probably hurt a couple guys' feelings

I am getting much more enjoyment from an intense relationship and experiencing and exploring sex with my BF. I trust him and am able to be free with him unlike how it was with random seductions.

But hey, to each his own.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by m18pak

I'm talking a full-blown seducer, one who could approach just about any woman (or man) and have a very good chance of getting laid that very day or night.

Would you actually want that?

If not, why not?

Sorry, no. Not my cuppa tea.

[MadHyeNa]

Attraction is not a choice.

Originally Posted by XeutonMojukai

Taking advantage of a woman is wrong.

This is very relative and depends on your purpose. We are results-oriented. Just like ANY skill in the world you can use it toward bad and good. You can grab a shotgun to protect your family, or you can rob a bank with it. Weapons made for security while using for wars and killins millions. Driving a car from CA to FL is faster than walking, but you could run over and kill somebody during your trip. Isn't that true?

It's not the techniques itself, not the method, equipment or device, it's the way you use to and what are you aiming for, what is your purpose. You can use anything toward the highest good of all or vice versa. This is about ethics. Character and ethics. John wouldn't do it. But who knows? Maybe Joe would. We are different. We are unique and, thus, have different desires, goals and purpose throughout our lifetime.

Seduction itself is a negative word for most. This word exudes "taking advantage" and all sort of "negative, bad, unethical" results, right? I wonder why. It is social conditioning. It is what we see in the TV. You may want to thank Hollywood for that, though. Bad guys seducing women, orgies and all of that, then of course dumping women. Oh yeah. PUAs! Playing the numbers' game. Let's go sarging, eh? Sure! Oh no, she's not a ten. This is what seduction means for most. And it is so freaking way wrong! Couldn't be further from the reality!

Some people have this kind of attitude toward salespeople, rainmakers and marketing superstars. What the heck? Yes, some salespeople are ignorant, unethical and freaking annoying. I admit it. I've known more than a few. But the profession per se is awesome and great; don't blame the profession, blame the practitioner! You hire a hypnotist, and he can't put you into deep trance and you blame hypnosis. It's utter bullshit, right?

Seduction as a skill is wonderful. If applied ethically, morally, and so forth, it is amazing and marvelous. I can't imagine how could I be "taking advantage of" my girl if I were to fulfill her everlasting fantasies of the Mr. Right. How in the world could it classified as 'negative' or something 'bad' if I was to give her the best days and nights she could ever experience throughout her lifetime. Make her feel the way she never felt before. Give her unique rollercoaster of emotions and sensations.

How could I be "taking advantage of her" if I was charming, kind, smart, caring while exuding bulletproof confidence, power and maturity. Would I be the "bad guy" because our relationship would not be mediocre, de facto standard boring, and because I wouldn't feel insecure? Our relationship would be intense, one of a kind and exceptional, that's definitely isn't a standard lately.

Show her how life was meant to be lived, enjoying the abundance of life, and creating every day as the memorable one that could ever be. Give her the best (multiple) orgasms of her life on a daily basis despite the odds of 70% women faking orgasms because they aren't able to experience them genuinely. Incompentence? Probably. But that's not the point of my post.

Don't blame mathematics because you suck at it. Blame the tutor or yourself for lacking motivation to learn it properly!

"No woman has ever left my arms unsatisfied." Don Juan DeMarco.

[Matthew Shea]

Seduction is basically the manipulation of another person with the intent of using them to satisfy a sexual desire. I can't see that being good in any real way. It might work for a one night stand, but it's certainly no way to foster a meaningful relationship with another person.

Now one can argue that the basis of all romantic relationships is the desire for sex. There's a lot of truth to that, too, but that sexual desire needs to be tempered with respect for your fellow human and love and concern that a sexual relationship won't cause any harm to the person you're enjoying it with. Seduction doesn't care about any of that, though. It only cares about quenching the fire in one's loins.

[NotesMaeve]

I thought about this. Had I been able to seduce people at will, I would have been maybe satisfied enough to stay in my last relationship. Then I would have never met Slamhot Boy. That thought alone makes me pretty sad.

But being able to seduce HIM? I can and I love it. Sometimes there's a reason the cute little metrosexual who is playing grab ass with you won't give you a lay, and maybe it's beyond the scope of our narrow understanding.

[alexinspire]

I agree to the senior member who oppose seduction.

The only thing we can't control is people's free will. No one can mind control the other person to do something that they want.

I once heard a hypnotherapist said "Hypnosis is not about making someone to do something. It's a technology that allow people to turn their desire into take action. That's it."

I just want to advice members not use seduction to build relationship. Even you get to build one, how the other person will think? How will you be with them when you try to hide the past that you seduce them?

Another thing is: Seduction doesn't always work! It's because you can't control what people think and what they want to do. There are no 100% sure win technique on seduction.

But attraction will be fun. You can play with attraction and it's different with seduction. Instead of manipulating and control other people, attraction allows people to choose freely. You can be very super attractive, but people can still choose whether they want to accept you or not.

That's not bad but great and easy! You no longer feel tired to change or manipulate others, you start to work towards yourself. Firstly, attraction come from who you are being. Here's few tips to be attractive:

1. Smile: My personal experience. I used to be a cool guy and end up no girlfriend or weak relationship with woman. When I start to smile from my heart everyday, I saw girls approaching me. My first girlfriend was the one who tell me that she likes me and ask for my number.

2. Have a beautiful heart who always want to contribute: This is not about letting people to take advantage. Always think of how you can give and contribute! You will be attractive by doing that and you feel good by helping others too.

3. Visit : » How Easy You Can Be Attractive Today With 5 Tips? Love Relationship: Romantic Ideas And Advice On Breakdowns In Relationship! There are 5 tips to learn how to be attractive here. This is my blog. I provide tips about relationship here almost daily.

Thank you and have fun!

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Seduction is basically the manipulation of another person with the intent of using them to satisfy a sexual desire. I can't see that being good in any real way. It might work for a one night stand, but it's certainly no way to foster a meaningful relationship with another person.

Get over yourself man. Life is a power game. Everybody plays everybody else, and whether you do it consciously or not... guess what, you're playing. Even honesty can be a power play. Does it make you a bad person? No.

And why you think seduction is about pretending to be something you're not I have no idea. Anybody who does that is not likely to get far in life unless they are a great actor.

EDIT: great post MadHyeNa

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Plato

Get over yourself man. Life is a power game. Everybody plays everybody else, and whether you do it consciously or not... guess what, you're playing. Even honesty can be a power play. Does it make you a bad person? No.

Well, my life is not a power game so let me check out of this one.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Erki

Well, my life is not a power game so let me check out of this one.

I think you're confusing personal objectives with the nature of human existence.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Plato

I think you're confusing personal objectives with the nature of human existence.

And who are you to declare the nature of human existence?

[Plato]

Wow, prompt response.

I'm nobody of course. But I do see how every human interaction affects other people in some way. We are inherently inter dependent. And every action can either increase our power or decrease it. Would you agree?

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Plato

Wow, prompt response.

I'm nobody of course. But I do see how every human interaction affects other people in some way. We are inherently inter dependent. And every action can either increase our power or decrease it. Would you agree?

Sure I see that we depend on each other, but then doesn't it make more sense to cooperate, not to compete?

[Plato]

Some people will always be more equal than others.

Besides, being an intelligent lightworker means gaining power in order to help people. It's something that has to be done and it doesn't have to harm other people in the process.

Of course, a very useful power play is to pretend that you have no intention of gaining power. This allows people to trust you and and to trust somebody is to give up some power to them. You let them into your world.

In this sense "A compliment is more intrusive than an insult."

[Brutha]

Sure I see that we depend on each other, but then doesn't it make more sense to cooperate, not to compete?

Power not only allows you to compete better but also to cooperate better.

The goal of seduction is to intentionally get someone to cooperate with you by changing their value perceptions of yourself followed by the other person thinking about you in times when that person doesn't have contact with you and attaching positive emotions to being with you.

The only thing we can't control is people's free will. No one can mind control the other person to do something that they want.

Yes but that isn't the goal of seduction to force someone to do something it to attach enough value to something in another persons mind to take action on their own will.

The goal can also be something other than sex. Music stars use seduction to sell their music and a lot of teenage girls are in love with some member of a boygroup.

The boygroup profits by the money of the sales and the girls profit by feeling emotions that make them happy.

I just want to advice members not use seduction to build relationship. Even you get to build one, how the other person will think? How will you be with them when you try to hide the past that you seduce them?

Their are a lot of ways besides hypnosis to seduce someone. Some are more and others are less effective.
The girl that puts on makeup will have no problem with her boyfriend discovering that she used more makeup than usual on her first date to seduce the boyfriend.

Another example of society accepted seduction behavior is buying flowsers for a woman.
Men buy flowers to make a woman feel good and hope that the woman associates that feeling with them.
While appear as "trying to hart" can infact reduce attraction, a bit of trying to make a woman feel good is a useful skill when you want to have any kind relationship.
A lot of girls want that their men try to make them happy, so it is nothing that has to be hidden.

The approach of improving oneself to a level where you do the things that make the other person happy unconsciously can also work.

The meme of love that happens on first sight without either party consciously trying to make it happen is deeply embedded in our culture.
That might be because behavior with the intention of sex is considered immoral in the Judeo-Christian religions.

In addition the unknown, the mysterious itself seduces people. It seems much more romantic when love just happens then when it requires effort.

Why don't people want to be able to seduce?

1) Because power always creates responsibilty and people hate responsibilty.
2) Because the meme of love of the first sight has seduced them enough to bring them to think about it from time to time and feel happy in the process. A lot of woman even buy romance novels to substitute for real physical encounters.
3) Because of Judeo-Christian Morals.

PS: This forum is no chat. Take the time to make your argument instead of trading onelines.