Attract & Seduce

[jaamkie]

Originally Posted by m18pak

This is a forum for self-improvement, and this sub-section of the forum is for developing social skills.

Obviously, people want to improve in this aspect.

But I am wondering, how much would you actually want to improve by?

I'm curious, how many here would actually want the ability to attract and seduce sexual partners at will?

In other words, if you were offered the chance to transform yourself into a real-life Femme Fatale or Don Juan, would you take it?

I'm talking a full-blown seducer, one who could approach just about any woman (or man) and have a very good chance of getting laid that very day or night.

Would you actually want that?

If not, why not?

I think for me being able to seduce anyone would basically mean being able to connect fully, quickly, honestly with all sorts of people and understand and love them. Definitely yes I want that, and in fact I am working on it (though as people above have mentioned, the point is the skill/ability not plans to actually use it to sleep with different people every night)

[Erock]

I think this argument is stupid and pointless.

First of all, there are *many* ways to "pick up" women, varying from unoriginal, scripted material to completely original improv. Before we could even have a debate on this, we would have to define exactly what type of pick up we're talking about.

Secondly, there are many motivations behind picking up women. It can range from genuinely wanting to form a long term relationship and get married to simply looking for a one night stand.

Third, there are morals and ethics involved that we would need to define. It varies from guys that lie, take advantage of drunk chicks, play the numbers game, and brag to their buddies to guys who are honest, moral, don't kiss and tell, and never take advantage of girls in even the slightest way.

Having a super strong opinion one way or the other on this is truly not keeping an open mind.

Erock

[MadHyeNa]

The topic is "seduce & attract," where does it states anything about "picking up women?"

Also, thinking it is all about "seducing women" is oversimplifying the discussion. I think the topic is about seducing the opposite sex (or same sex in some cases) to spark attraction and, therefore, pursuing specific behavior(s) and/or result(s) from the target/partner/victim; let it be genuine or not.

Furthermore, ethics are very subjective and everybody has his/her own views, what s/he considers fine or not. Mixing in ethics and emphasizing on them, ultimately would turn this topic into a sort of "What's the best ethics to live with?" thread.

$0.02

[Amandaaa]

if you were offered the chance to transform yourself into a real-life Femme Fatale or Don Juan, would you take it?

are you implying that we're not already Femme Fatales and Don Juans?

[seeker5]

Seduction is basically the manipulation of another person with the intent of using them to satisfy a sexual desire.

Fundamentally, it's not really manipulation, it's more that you are fulfilling the other person's romantic and sexual desire.

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Now one can argue that the basis of all romantic relationships is the desire for sex. There's a lot of truth to that, too, but that sexual desire needs to be tempered with respect for your fellow human and love and concern that a sexual relationship won't cause any harm to the person you're enjoying it with. Seduction doesn't care about any of that, though. It only cares about quenching the fire in one's loins.

I disagree with that - seduction is used not just for one nightstands, but also for getting a girlfriend and a wife.

[MadHyeNa]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Fundamentally, it's not really manipulation, it's more that you are fulfilling the other person's romantic and sexual desire.

This is what I was trying to explain since the beginning. Couldn't agree more.

Seduction per se does not implies manipulation, taking advantage, and playing with others' feelings. How to apply it, what are your underlying reasons and motivations, ultimately defines its 'polarity' according to your ethics, not mine, not your neighbor's, only yours.

And speaking of, it is an amazing feeling being seduced, in fact, the rollercoaster of emotions that one goes through while being seduced is something unexplainable. It feels one of a kind. Why is it "bad" to surprise people with that kind of gift? Making people live those amazing emotions is by no means "bad".

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by MadHyeNa

And speaking of, it is an amazing feeling being seduced, in fact, the rollercoaster of emotions that one goes through while being seduced is something unexplainable. It feels one of a kind. Why is it "bad" to surprise people with that kind of gift? Making people live those amazing emotions is by no means "bad".

Yup, it is a gift that can be accepted or refused voluntarily.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by MadHyeNa

The topic is "seduce & attract," where does it states anything about "picking up women?"

$0.02

Sorry I guess it doesn't explicitly say that, but when I read through the thread I think it was mentioned multiple times, and I think when people have issues with seduction and attraction they are thinking of the pick up community. The pick up community is "seduction." It's in all of the names of it.

I agree with everything you're saying though.
Erock

[LifeFirst]

I think I can attract anyone I want. Maybe I'm crazy but that's just the way I think...it may be flawed but I guess it comes from knowing that there are a lot of females at my school who are attracted to me.

[akbarhome]

I want to be Don Juan but not for a life time. Maybe from age 20 to 30.... After that, settle with one woman (I am a man).......

Being Don Juan is a wonderful way to live your life... but there are things more important than just become Don Juan.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by akbarhome

I want to be Don Juan but not for a life time. Maybe from age 20 to 30.... After that, settle with one woman (I am a man).......

Yeah, like my parents told me, before you get committed and settle down, find out what all is out there

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by Plato

Get over yourself man. Life is a power game. Everybody plays everybody else, and whether you do it consciously or not... guess what, you're playing. Even honesty can be a power play. Does it make you a bad person? No.

And why you think seduction is about pretending to be something you're not I have no idea. Anybody who does that is not likely to get far in life unless they are a great actor.

EDIT: great post MadHyeNa

I don't know where you get the idea that I think seduction is pretending to be something you're not. I neither stated nor implied that.

Besides that, if you see life as a power game, I feel very sorry for you. I see things very differently. Not everyone's first priority is to gain power over others. If you want someone's love and trust, such a self centered attitude toward relationships is going to get you nowhere. If you intend to control and manipulate, then you're certainly headed down the right track.

[Rose of Cairo]

In other words, if you were offered the chance to transform yourself into a real-life Femme Fatale or Don Juan, would you take it?

I'm talking a full-blown seducer, one who could approach just about any woman (or man) and have a very good chance of getting laid that very day or night.

Would you actually want that?

no, thanks, doesn't sound very interesting!

If not, why not?

Well, why should I? I usually meet only very few men I would want to seduce. With those few, I succeed most of the time. Not always - **** happens, so what! So, why should I want to be able to seduce lots of men I am not interested in anyway? Plus, to seduce someone knowing 100% that I will succeed would be very boring anyway. I'm not interested in this kind of power

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

I don't know where you get the idea that I think seduction is pretending to be something you're not. I neither stated nor implied that.

I hate to nitpick but....

You said "seduction is basically about manipulating people and I don't see now that could be a good thing." The word manipulation would normally infer that you think 'seduction' is something immoral. Generally people see manipulation as cheating people or in this case pretending to be something you are not. If you have seen past this socially conditioned garbage then props to you.

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Besides that, if you see life as a power game, I feel very sorry for you. I see things very differently. Not everyone's first priority is to gain power over others. If you want someone's love and trust, such a self centered attitude toward relationships is going to get you nowhere. If you intend to control and manipulate, then you're certainly headed down the right track.

The fact that every action you make WILL without doubt either increase or decrease your power does not mean your life purpose is to gain power. Duuhhh. It's just the way things are. Power is soemthing you need no matter what you are trying to achieve. However society has labelled 'power' as a dirty word, hence your emotional reaction to it.

That aside, anybody who truly understands seduction/attraction/game/whatever you want to call it, realises that for a person to truly love you they must know the true you... the good, the bad and the ugly. As Nietzsche says, "I must allow myself to be known and meanwhile know myself." Being yourself and totally upfront and honest is the only way to be.

P.S. I love your attempt to undermine me with the "then I feel sorry for you" bit. Classic way to demonstrate your moral authority over me and a great way to take away my power and gain power for yourself. My friend you are playing the power game. Manipulating me and the other people in this thread. And at the same time I'm sure you have honourable intentions towards other people, the same as I do. I'm sorry if I come across as rude on this forum but it's a way that gets people to think about what I'm saying...maybe even help them grow if they are man enough to take it contructively. Not saying that I'm perfect. Far from it.

The best of luck to you.

[Amandaaa]

I could see the point in engaging in seduction to live out my anger, seduce them and then leave them cold and walk away laughing at them

^exactly.


muaahahaha



(...excuse my immaturity tonight )

Life is a power game. Everybody plays everybody else, and whether you do it consciously or not... guess what, you're playing.

^you sound like the love of my life, Plato.
i remember him saying something just like that.

i was like, "i'm not playing any mind games." and he was like, "you're in the game whether you realize it or not. even by choosing not to play, you're playing the game."

i don't know, it was confusing...but i guess it's true. Life is a game, and everyone has power... people just choose to use it in different ways.

Once the novelty fades you won't want sex except with someone you care about and who cares for you. You won't settle for anything less than wonderful.

^indeed.

the whole seduction game is only fun to a certain extent.
i would never seduce a guy who i didn't already have feelings for... and i would never use it to "lure" a guy into my trap, in hopes of starting a relationship afterwards. and i would never use it to get revenge on someone. (...even though the idea is pretty enticing... )
all of that is childish.

...but it is good to have that "power" and be able to use it when you want to... especially when it's with the person you love.

[m18pak]

Personally, my fear has always been this. The easier it gets for you to attract people, the less you'll appreciate them.

If you know you can very easily replace your partner, then you will not put as much effort in to your relationship. If you do not put in much effort, then he or she will respond in kind. As such your relationship will not be as fulfilling than if, say, you two were the only people stuck on a desert island. If you do not have other options, then you tend to work harder at making the most of what you have. You share more of yourself, and its that sharing that facilitates trust and bonding.

But if you do not have that fear of loss, then you will not have the required motivation to make much of the relationship. You will not develop trust. Your bond will not be very strong. And why would it be? Why would he or she reveal the deepest, most intimate parts of themselves to you, when they know that you could just walk out tomorrow and never look back?

And you will not feel like he or she is special, and so you will not treat him or her as being special, and as such your relationship will not be special.

If you have a collection of, say, five girls, then of course you would not care so much if you were to lose one or two, right?

Can anyone counter my train of thought?

[Amandaaa]

If you know you can very easily replace your partner, then you will not put as much effort in to your relationship.

i know what you're saying... but i think that if you're in a relationship with someone that you're in love with, then you know that you could not just "replace" your partner...
and you would have a desire to put in the effort to make them happy.

But if you do not have that fear of loss, then you will not have the required motivation to make much of the relationship.

i don't think you should ever be in a relationship where your motivation comes from a fear of loss...or a fear of being alone.
you should be motivated out of passion for the person and the relationship...

if you honestly think that you could walk away tomorrow and never look back, then you shouldn't be with that person to begin with.

If you have a collection of, say, five girls, then of course you would not care so much if you were to lose one or two, right?

again, i think the missing factor here is Love.

i know that it may seem like all girls are interchangeable, but when you meet "the one," it completely changes your perspective on things.
even if you're the master seducer, you won't want to be with anyone but that one girl...
that's just the way it is.



being able to attract anyone you want is certainly fun, but at the end of the day, it doesn't compare to the emotional fulfillment of being with one person who means the world to you.

[Brutha]

Why would he or she reveal the deepest, most intimate parts of themselves to you, when they know that you could just walk out tomorrow and never look back?

While there are certainly people who want to be able to do that, and who are also able to do it, you don't have to.

In addition you raise your standarts when you have multiple choices.

Sure a third world kid who either starves or eats some low quality food will attach much more value to that food than we in the western world, but that doesn't mean that having the choice between multiple meals isn't advantous.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by m18pak

Why would he or she reveal the deepest, most intimate parts of themselves to you, when they know that you could just walk out tomorrow and never look back?

But isn't that always the case, unless you're Siamese twins? People usually have more than one option so far as friends go, yet that alone doesn't prevent them from opening up to one another, often much more than they do with their romantic partners.

Originally Posted by m18pak

If you have a collection of, say, five girls, then of course you would not care so much if you were to lose one or two, right?

I imagine you currently have 5 fingers on each hand, so would you mind giving up one or two of them?

[Lillycyn]

In this sense "A compliment is more intrusive than an insult."

Is this because you think compliments are part of the tools used to seduce another or to gain power?

[geekchic9]

How strange... recently I became a real hot mama. I have a nice face and a cute body, but I was too shy to show that off, because I was sexually abused many years ago by a guy who loved my body. This is actually rather common with rape victims, I have learned. They cover up or become less attractive so they won't be raped again, or so they think. Really, rape is about power, so it doesn't really matter how you look....

Anyway, after listening to the Belief Paraliminal CD for a while, I finally realized that I deserved to be as pretty as women who haven't been abused. So, I spent a small fortune on clothes that actually fit, makeup that actually flattered, and so on.

The next day at work, people were actually shocked at how I looked -- in a good way. Suddenly people were noticing me, including good-looking men, and I was, well, I was terrified. I went to the bathroom and cried my eyes out. Fortunately, nothing bad happened that day, or the next. I am building confidence and self-esteem, and my negative thought patterns are changing.

I have come to realize that I can pretty much seduce almost anyone I want -- but I have no urge to do so. You see, my boyfriend of nearly 8 years has loved me and has thought I was beautiful long before I did my makeover. He knows everything about me, including the abuse I've suffered, and he has taught me about unconditional love like no other person. So, this coming Labor Day (also my birthday) I will wear my sexy makeup, clothes, and underwear and seduce him like I've never done before. I don't think seduction is a bad thing in itself, especially since I know my boyfriend wants to be seduced.

Anyway, that was my .02 USD.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Lillycyn

Is this because you think compliments are part of the tools used to seduce another or to gain power?

You think they aren't?

Anyway, I think the sceptics of the 'power' perspective would do well to remember that with great power comes great responsibility... who would have thought Spiderman the movie would give us such a profound quote? The point being that power in itself is not a bad thing, it's what you do with it.

To put the negative aspect on this, have you ever trusted someone only for them to hurt or use you? I think most of us can associate with that experience...

We can either live in denial to this risk or we can accept it fully... risk getting hurt and continue loving in spite of it all. Never close off your heart. Take emotional beatings and get up and carry on loving, because that is real strength of character.

Originally Posted by geekchic9

I have come to realize that I can pretty much seduce almost anyone I want -- but I have no urge to do so. You see, my boyfriend of nearly 8 years has loved me and has thought I was beautiful long before I did my makeover. He knows everything about me, including the abuse I've suffered, and he has taught me about unconditional love like no other person. So, this coming Labor Day (also my birthday) I will wear my sexy makeup, clothes, and underwear and seduce him like I've never done before. I don't think seduction is a bad thing in itself, especially since I know my boyfriend wants to be seduced.

Hi five to the boyfriend!!!

Oh yeah, and I'm pleased for you