Unconditional Love Revisited

[jtrikster]

I responded to a post yesterday asking what unconditional love was. Everyone came up with interesting answers and I began to explore what unconditionl love was to me.

Randomly when looking at Wikipedia for some information, I found a random Bible quote. No I don't affiliate but I find reading it can sometimes be enlightening. Here's what unconditional love is to me:

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, ... It bears all things, ... endures all things. Love never fails.

(1 Corinthians 13:4-8, NAB)

This quote really spoke to me because recently I've been having some issues with friendships and being too selfish. I was really trying to figure out what I needed to do and realized I had to be the complete opposite from selfishness. I needed to be unconditional.

What do you guys think about this quote?

[ZHereford]

jtrikster, that's an excellent quote about love! I wish I had remembered it when I was responding to the other thread about unconditional love.

[jtrikster]

haha thanks Z

[richie]

That's a wonderful quote. I have just send that quote to my friends.

[jtrikster]

Ya for being a former catholic I didn't realize until recently that the Bible was very insightful and helpful.

[Jill]

That quote is used in tons and tons of wedding ceremonies!

[Akashic_Librarian]

Its really nice. Its good to see The Bible being used for good.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

You would think as a person who was raised in a Christian home and heard that verse ad infinitum I would have remembered it. But when I started that unconditional love post, I was in a fuzzy place in my mind. Thanks for reminding me about it. I think it's really simply profound. A good example of what love really is in my opinion.

The Bible actually does have a lot of good stuff in it.

[jtrikster]

Ya I was going to post this quote in that thread, but I couldn't find it. hehe. glad you found this one to read it!

[Gene]

I do agree with the quote. That said I have needed at times in my life to make changes in relationships with those I love. I divorced and I love her but do not desire to be married, etc.

[xuan]

I have learned to love someone unconditionally even he is a jerk. Learn that as long as he is happy, i am happy.
Sometimes, it brings misery. But at times, i learned that i grown & how much capacity i have give....sometimes i just give blindly...
I guess to love is to forgive & forget. Love him/her for him/her.

[jtrikster]

I think the real KEY to loving unconditionally is loving yourself. You need to appreciate yourself whole heartedly before you can appreciate and love others.

I really do believe this is the key to happiness because this is what I've done and I've made a complete 360 switch.

You make think you love yourself, but look deep down and try to really listen and see what your motives and intentions are. I thought I loved myself. Heck, I've always thought I had a high self-esteem. Our normal concept of this is wrong to say the least.

Just try it and see for yourself.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by jtrikster

I really do believe this is the key to happiness because this is what I've done and I've made a complete 360 switch.

Nothing has changed then I see.

[dulaney0330]

What a great Bible verse! Whenever I feel like I am not loving to my fullest potential, I think of that verse and it really inspires me! Christian or not, I think that verse is very useful and inspirational!

[jtrikster]

Originally Posted by Erki

Nothing has changed then I see.

What do you mean?

I guess if you mean in terms of what Eckhart Tolle teaches, knowing your being, then nothing really does change. You always love yourself, but as BEING, not as egoic mind. So in that sense ya I guess your right.

Did you mean it another way?

[Erki]

Originally Posted by jtrikster

What do you mean?

I guess if you mean in terms of what Eckhart Tolle teaches, knowing your being, then nothing really does change. You always love yourself, but as BEING, not as egoic mind. So in that sense ya I guess your right.

Did you mean it another way?

Turn 360 degrees and you make a full circle.
Turn 180 and you make a turn-around.(you'll face what befoe turning was behind you).

Geometry. But you're not the first one to make this little mistake so don't feel too bad and keep loving yourself.

[jtrikster]

Lol. I think you took my expression too literally.

[Michael Chui]

Quote the rest of the chapter. It's not called the Book of Love for nothing.

[honeybee]

Because it's really not all that long, here is the whole chapter:

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails.
But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

Perhaps there are additional discussion points to be found in these words as well.

[jtrikster]

Ya thanks for the rest of it.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Perhaps there are additional discussion points to be found in these words as well.

There are. Let me share some of my interpretations.

First, my definition of love. Simply put, love is an action wherein equality is increased through the increase of knowledge. Both of these are required.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:1

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Language is the medium of expression and communication. However, the mindless babbling of an idiot, even if he has a mastery over all forms of expression, is still a mindless babbling. See all those wonderful quotations that correlate wisdom with silence, and foolishness with speech. This is expression without knowledge, as a clanging cymbal.

As a medium of communication, language is useful only between those who share the same language. See The Chinese Room for an illustration of a shared language without real communication. Communication is developed through rapport, an implicit understanding that the other party is capable of receiving the message through a shared sameness with the speaker. You may as well be speaking gibberish, a resounding gong, if your audience is entirely alien to you.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:2

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

This is a subtler point. Prophecy is not the ability to see the future; it is the ability to speak the truth. It merely happens that prophets tend to talk about the future, and what they say is true.

However, it comes down to knowledge. Knowledge can only take you so far; in love, knowledge must lead to equality, else the path becomes one of loneliness. To know God without loving Him is to be Satan himself: nothing.

Further, this verse introduces the notion of "faith". Faith is a certainty in the present, an assumption by which we found our beliefs and knowledge. However, mere faith is useless: upon faith, you must build knowledge, and upon knowledge you must, as aforementioned, build love.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:3

If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

A common failing in religious persons since time immemorial is the worship of sacrifice. They think that to suffer, in and of itself, is a goal. But pain is not an objective; it is, like the freedom it brings, merely a gatekeeper. Pain is a key, sacrifice is the arrival at the gate, and freedom is the opening of that gate. But for what?

Without love, without knowledge and equality, the gate leads nowhere.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

In loving, you

• ...understand that some things take time. (Knowledge)
• ...desire the best for that which you love. (Equality)
• ...consider your beloved's accomplishments your own. (Equality)

Etc.

Oh, and I should make a note of "self-seeking". Love most certainly is self-seeking, but outside of the level of equality present, this is what it looks like. That is why we believe that altruism exists, though it does not. Read my definition--the section about Compassion--for more.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:9

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Love cannot fail; it is a process, a purpose unto itself. It does not falter or fail: you do not "fall out of love". You merely decide that it is Not-You, and alienate yourself from it, or the other way around.

And as for the knowledge passing away bit I'm sure you're wondering about, well, I am not Paul. The only circumstance I can imagine is, in the higher order of sentience that may come about in the future, the knowledge of today is a bit... irrelevant. I can see that. And in a way, he is talking about the distant future, so it's not too much of a leap.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:10

For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

In other words, we only know certain truths but partially, but in perfection, our knowledge will be complete. Bit of a gambit, I think personally, but Paul thought this would happen in a couple years. Then he went and got himself crucified.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:11-12

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

This is one of my favorites, being that it specifically encourages the veneration of the elder as opposed to the child: a severe counterbalance to the trend today.

However, I think it is agreeable to assert that the acquisition of knowledge takes time. And in knowing, you forcibly separate yourself from others, because everyone has a differing path to knowledge, so you cannot be completely united in this. However, at a certain point, it is possible to reunite: and that is when we leave adolescence behind and reach maturity. Many people never reach that point.

Originally Posted by Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:13

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

Faith, as you recall, is a certainty in the present. I put it this way specifically to contrast it to Hope, which is an attitude regarding the future. So faith is the foundation, the rock upon which you build the universe. Hope is the outlook, the expectation of better, of passing through the gateway and being freed into a brighter land. A promised land, mayhap.

Love, however, is the binding force that makes this land possible at all.

[jtrikster]

Very nice analysis. I realized I have a lot of the same opinions as you but I was never able to organize them like you did. Lol, it really helps me understand what I'm really thinking in my head.

nice

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

First, my definition of love. Simply put, love is an action wherein equality is increased through the increase of knowledge. Both of these are required.

The link doesn't seem to work from my computer, would you mind sharing your definition of love here?

[jtrikster]

Yes agreed. I'm interested in hearing what your opinion is.

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by honeybee

The link doesn't seem to work from my computer, would you mind sharing your definition of love here?

After you click the link, just take the extra "/" off the end of the URL and press Enter.

Aqualgidus.org > The Definition of Love

[Michael Chui]

Gah. What a horrible mistake. My apologies. Matthew's link is correct; I've also fixed it in my original post. Sorry!

[jtrikster]

Wow. I loved your essay. You bring up a lot of good points.

I am still a little skeptical when you say compassion is not humanly possible. In my mind, to make this statement true, I guess from an egoic mental standpoint this is true. But when I think about my own spirt/soul, I cannot find compassion to be impossible to achieve.

I think if we just change of identification anchor point, compassion can be achieved.

Any thoughts?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by jtrikster

I am still a little skeptical when you say compassion is not humanly possible. In my mind, to make this statement true, I guess from an egoic mental standpoint this is true. But when I think about my own spirt/soul, I cannot find compassion to be impossible to achieve.

I think if we just change of identification anchor point, compassion can be achieved.

Any thoughts?

Perhaps. But I think that a lot of what makes us human is our tendency to be discompassionate: to separate ourselves even from those who are closest to us. It emphasizes what we don't separate ourselves from quite a bit.

In that sense, I might suggest that, if we can achieve complete compassion, "human" may not be the right term to describe us. The term "god" might be more accurate. Maybe. Or "spirit".

[jtrikster]

"In that sense, I might suggest that, if we can achieve complete compassion, "human" may not be the right term to describe us. The term "god" might be more accurate. Maybe. Or "spirit"."


Yes I completely agree. I have been reading a lot of books this summer and a lot of them point to a self that is much more than our normal human self. They consider it the god being in all of us.