Disclosure and Ambition - Antithetical to a Social Life?

[Casper]

They say that one of the critical factors in making friends is the act of mutual disclosure, whereby people gradually share more and more about themselves to each other, and the search for common ground upon which new relationships may flourish.

Hold that thought, and picture the following person: Age 25, West Coat metropolitan city, bi-lingual, graduate degree from a "prestigious" university, debt-free, reliable job with a salary of $150,000+ annually, fashion model on the side, athletic, musically talented (three instruments), artistically talented.

What is your instinctual impression of this person? Do you like him/her? Is it within the realm of possibility that you could become good friends with this person? Would it make any difference if you had known less about them?

Hold that thought, as I add more. This person is also known as what some refer to as "progressive" - the idea that they continually enjoy unprecedented success, whether occupationally, or in their personal goals, achievements, or hobbies. Ambition is the precursor to being "progressive."

Now, does this change your impression of the person? Is your impression more favorable, less favorable, or the same?

I'm not going to claim that the description of said person describes me to a tee, but I will say that, objectively speaking, most people, upon full disclosure, would place me in the same category as said person. It's also an accurate self-image. And, the idea of being "progressive", to me, is basically my life story - fulfilling my potential as a human being. This, and the fact that for most of life, I've felt that I have untapped potential and talents that I never knew I had.

I'm not here to solicit praise or pity. I'm here, because for my entire post-adolescent life, I have made friends and lost friends, as I have accomplished more and more. As I have become a more confident and fulfilled individual, it has become more and more difficult to connect with people my age. Just about all of my high school friendships have evolved to mere charades, the result of what I sense time and time again, jealousy from my former close friends.

What do I seek in a friend? I'm not even sure anymore. I am drawn to unique people; people with character; and most importantly, people that inspire me, who have facets to their personalities that set an example of how I would like a part of myself to be. Yet, so feel people that I have met fit this description. And I can honestly say that I have never met a person whom I wish I could trade places with.

It has gotten to the point where, upon meeting new people, I feel obligated to conceal parts of myself, revealing only enough such that I am perceived as imprudent. Indications of wealth or status, I've found, are especially damaging; merely noting in passing where I live, a favorite restaurant, a past experience - anything that is a clear indicator of wealth - when their is a clear disparity is off-putting.

The seemingly simple solution would be to associate with people with wealth. However, to me, wealth in and of itself does not attract me. While many people associate wealth with status, I equate wealth with the opportunities that it provides to make myself a better person. What I value most in people is a consistent and strong sense integrity, ethics, value system, and compassion. Unfortunately, people rarely befriend each other along these lines, let alone meet in a common forum, since it seems that most social circles today are defined by wealth and status.

I could go on an on, but I just wanted to solicit some serious responses on the matter. I invite criticism as well, as long as it is respectful. I won't be surprised to see my post flamed, but for the record, I certainly don't intend to hold myself out as some type of exemplar of a human being; based on some other threads I've read on here, there are certainly many posters on this board who are more talented and gifted than myself. I'm just another poster hoping to de-construct the problem of having an unsatisfactory social life.

[ZHereford]

I would find this person very interesting, but for some reason I would be very cautious. I would tread lightly and take my time in getting to know them.

The word shallow comes to mind but I admit it's unfounded and unfair.

[Shamou]

Casper... sorry that I will not be able to contribute much in the way of solving your dilemma since I have no friend (except for my wife) and I don't want any... I am very comfortable with my own company so why bother...???

However I would certainly like to extend a warm welcome to this forum... you certainly are a very interesting person and you will be a welcome addition here...

Hope to hear more from you in the future...

.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Casper

Age 25, West Coat metropolitan city, bi-lingual, graduate degree from a "prestigious" university, debt-free, reliable job with a salary of $150,000+ annually, fashion model on the side, athletic, musically talented (three instruments), artistically talented.

Danger Man?!? Is that you? What are you doing posting here?! You are not 25!!

Welcome to the forum, Casper. As for your concern about making connections with people -- you don't have to tell them all these things right away, you know. If I were to meet you and ask you who you are, this "resume" stuff isn't what I'd be looking for; in fact, it would sound to me like you were trying to compensate for something, and I'd be a little put off. I would want to hear about what's important to you in your life or what you're up to in the world as far as making a difference. Leaving that other info till later isn't 'concealing', it's just 'allowing appropriate flow' -- letting the details about the outer trappings show up in their own time.

You don't sound like the kind of person that just lists your attributes when you meet someone (oops! except you just did! ) Probably you're just sensitive to how people react when you say or do something that seems to you like a statement of wealth or status. In that case, unless you're asking a person to participate in an activity that they can't afford comfortably, or unless you really are trying to point out something about your own wealth or status, then it's really the other person's responsibility to take you as you come and work out for themselves any problems letting you be who you are. You can allow yourself, and the other person, the freedom to be exactly as is, just by being present, by listening, and by taking the responsibility for who you are being.

There are an awful lot of really successful people around here, and I think you'll be interested to get to know what success means for each of them. Meanwhile, welcome, and best wishes in your desire to fulfill your potential as a human being!

Love,
Angela

[Ree]

Originally Posted by Casper

Indications of wealth or status, I've found, are especially damaging; merely noting in passing where I live, a favorite restaurant, a past experience - anything that is a clear indicator of wealth - when their is a clear disparity is off-putting.

The seemingly simple solution would be to associate with people with wealth. However, to me, wealth in and of itself does not attract me.

I think you may be seeking friends on the basis of wealth, status, home address, favorite restaurant, etc., which really amounts to nothing. You need to dig a little deeper, find some qualities within yourself which are important to you, and seek friends with the same qualities.

Are you a giver? Join Habitat for Humanity and help build some houses. Driving nails and hauling shingles make good grounds for lasting friendships. Are you more into the life of glitter? Chair a charity committee or host a charity event at your club or at your home. You get to dress to the nines and get your picture in the society column and still do a good deed.

Whatever you decide to do to hook up with folks with similar values, don't lose sight of the big picture. Do something worthwhile with your time and your talent

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Angela

Danger Man?!? Is that you? What are you doing posting here?! You are not 25!!

Angela... would you mind telling me what "Danger Man" means...??? I believe that you referred to it a few times in your posts and I was just wondering...

Hope that I'm not getting too personal here...

.

[RT Wolf]

^ I believe its her hubby (or boyfriend) who posts, (rarely methinx) under that nickname.

That sounds like an interesting case of a different kind of prejudice than people generally think of. My advice? Stop doubting yourself, accept yourself as you are. And keep trying ot make new friends, at some point you'll start to find people who are more like you if you meet enough people. Connect with other professionals in your field.

I can totally agree with you about being a person of character. You might consider going to a forum meet in your area (check the Local Groups forum) and see if there's anyone interesting in your area.

[Lychee]

Shamou,

Wow, I was pleasantly surprised in hearing you say that you have no friends except for your wife and don't want any. I think it gives hope to people who have struggling at making and maintaining friendships, and for people who have always been alone in their lives. I don't want to take over the thread, but what brought you to the point of where you are content with only your wife's company? What do you think about the people who say that friendships are essential to every person's life?


Casper,

I personally feel the expectation for a man's level of maturity has been pushed back to the later years, whereas it's the opposite of women. After reading your self-description, I would say that you would definitely be intimidating for men in your age group as well as men who are older than you. Few people in general seem to have the interest in "progression" as you claim that you have.

Yet, so feel people that I have met fit this description. And I can honestly say that I have never met a person whom I wish I could trade places with.

You could be a leg up in certain areas of your life, and you have different expectations for yourself than other people. There are fewer people in the world who are generally concerned with people of substance.

It has gotten to the point where, upon meeting new people, I feel obligated to conceal parts of myself, revealing only enough such that I am perceived as imprudent. Indications of wealth or status, I've found, are especially damaging; merely noting in passing where I live, a favorite restaurant, a past experience - anything that is a clear indicator of wealth - when their is a clear disparity is off-putting.

Wealth, if achieved honestly, is nothing to be ashamed about. Upon meeting you, people may feel they have to defend their position to you or they might secretly feel inferior which is why people might become hostile towards you. Don't worry about them, and if more people than not are reacting this way, you are better without them.

The seemingly simple solution would be to associate with people with wealth. However, to me, wealth in and of itself does not attract me. While many people associate wealth with status, I equate wealth with the opportunities that it provides to make myself a better person. What I value most in people is a consistent and strong sense integrity, ethics, value system, and compassion. Unfortunately, people rarely befriend each other along these lines, let alone meet in a common forum, since it seems that most social circles today are defined by wealth and status.

A good evaluation. And yes, unfortunately few people are looking for that. But I'm sure you will find here that we all share something in common - an interest in self-development. Perhaps you could make friends with someone here or in your area?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Shamou,

Wow, I was pleasantly surprised in hearing you say that you have no friends except for your wife and don't want any. I think it gives hope to people who have struggling at making and maintaining friendships, and for people who have always been alone in their lives. I don't want to take over the thread, but what brought you to the point of where you are content with only your wife's company? What do you think about the people who say that friendships are essential to every person's life?

My eyes opened when I read in an article that most billionaires are mostly non gregarious people and that they are quite content with their in their own company…

Also, my number one hero/mentor and person that I most admire is the Honorable Pierre Elliot Trudeau (former PM of Canada) was a solitary man… quite content to live a sedentary life involved mainly in intellectual pursuits…

I observed people in my entourage to see what motivated them to seek a life surrounded with many friends… and what I observed was the fact that most of these people did it just because it was the accepted thing to do… and not truly getting satisfaction out of it…

So, that was enough for me… I decided to go for what works best for me and what makes me happiest… that is, having some people that I enjoy spending time with but only on a casual way…

I will never forget the line in the film Wall Street where Gordon Gekko tells Bud Foxx, “If you want a friend… get a dog.” Works just fine for me…

.

[Casper]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

There is another layer to all this apart from any notion of "disclosure" or "ambition", and that is the idea that my interests tend to vary so widely, that I tend not to fit into a particular mold. For example, someone working in the financial industry will tend to be very business-minded, keen on the market and current events, follow politics, as well as the corporate-minded sports such as golf and baseball. On the other hand, the typical artist (or artsy person) tends to steer away from sports, fiscally-driven industries, and perhaps politics. Instead, such individuals are more prone to enjoy independent films, indy music, progressive art, aesthetics, and other things far from the "mainstream" media.

It seems that everyone fits into some type of mold, pre-determined by their educational background or profession. Yet, I feel that I spread myself too thin in my interests and therefore do not fit into any type of "mold", thereby only relating to other people on a superficial level, because our interests only tangentially overlap. Thus, another possible explanation for my unsatisfactory social life. Perhaps one solution is to confine myself to fewer and more interrelated interests, so I can fit in?

Another factor is that I've lived a somewhat sheltered life. Perhaps it's all just now catching up to me, and I'm simply developing my identity at a very rapid pace as painful as it may be. Friendships (or "friendships") that I made only months ago seem as though they were forged long long ago, and that I'm a completely different person ever since. A sign of rapid growth, perhaps?

I have always felt like an outcast, only relating to people on a superficial level. I thought a bit more about what my ideal group of friends would be like, and realized that it would be comprised of people such as myself: people with widely varying interests, yet a fascination with others unlike oneself, united by a common, deeper, set of values and ethics. Yet, in today's society where people's social circles tend to be heavily defined by their educational background or profession (with the notion of wealth and status nearly always underpinning social circles), such a group of friends seems too idealistic to actually exist.

I would like to believe that as long as I pursue my passions, I will eventually meet people that I relate to on a deeper level. Yet, one could also argue that the more I entrench myself in my "uniqueness" in interests, the farther down the rabbit hole I'll go, further alienating myself from others.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Casper

Another factor is that I've lived a somewhat sheltered life. Perhaps it's all just now catching up to me......I have always felt like an outcast, only relating to people on a superficial level.

Hi Casper, I think if you have lead a sheltered life that would explain much of your uneasiness. You seem very self-conscious about many aspects of yourself and appear to believe that people are put off by your outward success. I think it's more how you feel about it. If a person is natural and comfortable with themselves their lifestyle and income level is irrelevant. It's who you are, not what you have that counts. You may have missed out on some social development if you've lead a sheltered life. Of course it's never too late to learn and grow!

[RT Wolf]

Haha, Casper, you should meet me. I'm much the same way as you. I'm into many different things, too. Do not compromise your own desires and spirit for the sake of a few friends because they will not be very good friends if they don't see you or accept you as you are.

By the way, your belief that others fit into some sort of a mold sounds like a bit of a cognitive bias or an error in thinking. Our brains are designed to put things into categories, or categorize things according to patterns. There's also confirmation bias, which is that we pay most attention to things that confirm our beliefs nad attitudes, leading to even stronger beliefs. People don't tend to fit into molds totally or completely, as long as you look hard enough.

Now here's the thing, there's a part you're missing. There's something else about you that you don't know because you're too close to yourself. And because we only know your situation, we'll most probably end up sympathizing with you, but that won't solve your particular problem, either. You need to find out this other thing, which has to do with how you come off with other people. If you can find someone who's honest enough to tell you their real impression of you, you might get lucky. Especially whether you might be unintentionally coming off as boastful.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Shamou

My eyes opened when I read in an article that most billionaires are mostly non gregarious people and that they are quite content with their in their own company…

Also, my number one hero/mentor and person that I most admire is the Honorable Pierre Elliot Trudeau (former PM of Canada) was a solitary man… quite content to live a sedentary life involved mainly in intellectual pursuits…

I observed people in my entourage to see what motivated them to seek a life surrounded with many friends… and what I observed was the fact that most of these people did it just because it was the accepted thing to do… and not truly getting satisfaction out of it…

So, that was enough for me… I decided to go for what works best for me and what makes me happiest… that is, having some people that I enjoy spending time with but only on a casual way…

I will never forget the line in the film Wall Street where Gordon Gekko tells Bud Foxx, “If you want a friend… get a dog.” Works just fine for me…

.

Can you give me some more information on this?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Casper

Yet, I feel that I spread myself too thin in my interests and therefore do not fit into any type of "mold", thereby only relating to other people on a superficial level, because our interests only tangentially overlap.

Casper, I have not acheived the kind of success you talk about as far as wealth goes, but I do have a little insight into your 'spread thin' problem. I am also a person with wide interests. Because of this, I have always been comfortable with just about any kind of person, rich or poor, educated or not, liking all kinds of music, sports, art, outdoor adventure. I don't feel it's been a hinderance to deep friendships at all. On the contrary, it has allowed me to pursue all of my interests rather than limiting myself to one or a few in order to maintain solid friendships. I don't always share every one of my interests with every friend, and not all of my friends enjoy being with each other but I certainly have very deep and meaningful friendships with them all.

Your uniqueness -- the traits, interests and experiences you have -- is just what will endear you to the right kind of friends. Perhaps you just haven't met the right people yet.

I don't now if any of this helps. It is always wise to improve yourself in whatever ways you see necessary and work to diminish whatever faults you might have -- self awareness and the ability to make positive changes will always be important. But narrowing your interests in order to make friends would seem to be counterproductive. You may end up with a group of friends, but you would be missing out on things you enjoy.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Can you give me some more information on this?

I don’t know what it is specifically that you want to know… so, this is jus a shot in the dark…


What I have observed is that some people (and I mean some) are lucky enough to have one or two really good friend… and that is obviously something to be treasured and cherished…

However, something else that I have observed is that many people try to collect “friends” or an “entourage” would be a better word in order to validate themselves… or getting that feeling of being “OK” or accepted… for these people… it’s a bit of a social status… and I found that in these later cases, the efforts were not worth the satisfaction…

There are also people who will seek “friends” as a form of security should the time arise when they need help… that is silly… most of the time it will be perfect strangers who will fly to your rescue while the "friends" are suddenly very busy and cannot spare the time or effort…

I feel that some people seek so called friends to make certain that someone will attend their funerals when the times comes… not a very valid reason as far as I’m concerned…

Those are my own personal views… I don’t preach or advocate them… I simply share them with anyone who asks…

Any specific questions…??? Feel free to ask…

.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Angela... would you mind telling me what "Danger Man" means...??? I believe that you referred to it a few times in your posts and I was just wondering...

Hope that I'm not getting too personal here...

.

Danger Man is to Angela as Wolfie is to Phyllis Diller. Casper's description of himself sounds a lot like my Danger Man.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Angela

Danger Man is to Angela as Wolfie is to Phyllis Diller. Casper's description of himself sounds a lot like my Danger Man.

Thank you for the explanation...

I must say that you are one interesting lady... you should write columns in newspapers or magazines... I am certain it would be most entertaining...

Keep up the good work...

.

[Angela]

Thanks, Shamou! I needed that.

Correction to Phyllis Diller reference, though. It's not "Wolfie", it's "Fang".

Who the hell is Wolfie? Oh, yeah.... Danger Man is to Angela as Wolfie is to Constance Mozart.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Thank you for the explanation...

I must say that you are one interesting lady... you should write columns in newspapers or magazines... I am certain it would be most entertaining...

Keep up the good work...

.

I second it.

[Angela]

oh, you guys.....

I was having a bit of a low morning, and you have cheered me up! Thank you.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Casper

thereby only relating to other people on a superficial level, because our interests only tangentially overlap.

You nailed it right there.

There's plenty that needs fixed in this world. You'll find things that interest you on a deeper level. Just wait.

[Mark Lapierre]

Your description leaves too many variables undefined, so I can't honestly say whether or not I would get along with that person or not, especially since the people I've known who would come close to fitting that description have all been very different despite those similarities.

In other words, as Angela mentioned, you've disclosed information about your situation, but nothing about you, at least not in that list of accomplishments or qualities. But your post as a whole does say something. And it is very possible that I could become good friends with someone who writes as you do.

I've found that generally, young people of that calibre associate with people older than themselves. Someone like that usually doesn't have much time for me because my ambitions and passions are far less obvious, to the point that they seem nonexistent in comparison. Yet I can develop a friendship with them, it just takes time, and may only involve brief contact once every few months. Those friendships aren't very deep, though that doesn't mean it's not possible.

I don't fit well into any mold either, and in the cases where the fit is especially poor, I get very uncomfortable when I'm obliged to try to fit (work gatherings, certain family events, social occasions for a friend's benefit). But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy those aspects of a particular mold which appeal to me.

But my close friends have shown me that not everyone fits into society's molds as closely as they first seem, and indeed some not at all. The people who I spend most of my time with have also said many times that they feel as if they don't fit in anywhere. And I keep meeting people like that, every year. Some fade and eventually disappear from my life, but well, that's life. The ones I truly want to stay in my life do so. I've very grateful that I have more than my fair share of close friends (without Shamou's quotation marks. )

I'm curious about what rapid changes you've undergone that would cause friendships to seem so very distant. And about the friendships themselves. It would make sense to me if those friendships were formed solely around situational attributes rather than core personality. It would take something very dramatic to cause a rapid shift in core personality...

I think living a sheltered life is a telling point. I've found that lack of social skill has kept barriers between myself and some groups of friends, barriers which were broken down as I become more comfortable around them. In those cases it wasn't that I couldn't fit in, but that I unconsciously wouldn't let myself (through heightened self-consciousness, ironically).

If any alienation occurs, it will be because you focus too heavily on your uniqueness. As RT Wolf mentioned (we've been reading the same material I suspect ) the brain has an amazing ability to draw our attention to things which we place importance upon. The more you think yourself unique in a negative way, the more you will notice things which reinforce that belief.

I'm 100% confident that you'll meet people (yes, plural) with whom you can connect on a deeper level. Possibly even via the Internet.

[Alchemiss]

Casper,
I can relate to where you are. I am older than you by quite a bit but at your age I was also already very accomplished but had minimal genuine connections to others and was not that aware of my own inner life. I did think it important to let people know how accomplished I was and thought my accomplishments put them off when, in fact, I think it was my unconscious desire to have people see how great I was (yes, this was insecurity in another guise) that put them off.

I agree with many of the posts here. I highly recommend doing some mind-body-spirit work to round out the external successes and gifts you possess. This will allow you to connect with people more readily and not to hold yourself separate from them with your perceived difference or misguided belief in your superiority/inferiority. We are all the same, essentially. One day we shall all be dust and in a hundred years your accomplishments will count for much less than how much love you shared while you were here.

Best wishes to you.

[Susie]

Hold that thought, and picture the following person: Age 25, West Coat metropolitan city, bi-lingual, graduate degree from a "prestigious" university, debt-free, reliable job with a salary of $150,000+ annually, fashion model on the side, athletic, musically talented (three instruments), artistically talented.

What is your instinctual impression of this person? Do you like him/her? Is it within the realm of possibility that you could become good friends with this person? Would it make any difference if you had known less about them?

Hold that thought, as I add more. This person is also known as what some refer to as "progressive" - the idea that they continually enjoy unprecedented success, whether occupationally, or in their personal goals, achievements, or hobbies. Ambition is the precursor to being "progressive."

Now, does this change your impression of the person? Is your impression more favorable, less favorable, or the same?

My impression of this person is generally neutral with a touch of positive, however there is a suspicion that you might be arrogant, but who knows, if I met you in person that might not be the case-- and you've left out other important characteristics such as are you friendly, do you have a good sense of humor, are you kind, generous, interested in other people, etc? The facts you listed in your post are only a small part of the picture. Frankly, how much money you make doesn't mean much when it comes to friendship-- in fact the only thing I see that could really set you apart from your peers is you make a relative lot of money for a 25-year-old. I would imagine that playing three instruments could help you make friends if you get out and play with other people. Another honest impression? Someone who makes $150,000 but still feels a need to be a fashion model on the side sounds potentially vain and conceited which can be off-putting, but you may not be! And there is my rambling response.

[Brutha]

What driver you to wake up every morning and do your best?
Do you had some figure in your life that didn't accept you?
Do you thing you have to prove yourself?

The real question is whether you would like someone like that as a friend. You don't seem to accept yourself.