The ego always wins...

[bleachjt]

I have a pretty new relationship with this great girl. It was wonderful in the beginning, but recently we have been arguing and fighting over all kinds of issues, hurting each other. I have to add that it an online relationship, so we have not met in person. She is impatient, stubborn and selfish, I am patient, stubborn and selfish. It's the stubborn and selfish part that we struggle with. Last night I said something that made her put up all her defenses and I was trying desperately to bring it down. We both wanted different things, and in the end she gave in to me, but it didn't feel right and I didn't want it like that. So today we argued some more and it is always like this.

We are both insecure because we have been hurt in previous relationships so we are very easy to hide behind our wall. The real problem is the ego, it allows us to hurt each other even though we love each other. We want to work on this, but I have to be honest and say I'm unsure about myself. How can I love her unconditionally? How can I know when the ego takes over? I want to control it, and not let it control me so I can save this relationship.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by bleachjt

We both wanted different things, and in the end she gave in to me, but it didn't feel right and I didn't want it like that. So today we argued some more and it is always like this.

Hi bleachjt,
I find that if two people want different things from life it's very difficult to sustain a relationship. It doesn't mean that you don't love and respect each other, it just means that you may not be compatible on the many levels to need to be.

You're right in not wanting her to give in to you for the sake of keeping peace. Each of you has to be honest and true to yourself. Don't settle for the sake of settling.

[Namaste]

I think that a lot of things can be misinterpreted in online communication, so part of this issue may be due to the fact that you are not speaking face to face.

At the same time, I believe that slight disagreements and 'battle of egos' are a natural part of getting to know each other and getting used to each other. It happens after the initial oh-my-gosh-i'm-so-in-love-stage, when you think you have gotten to know a person to a reasonable extent and you begin to expect them to act a particular way. And when they do or say something that doesn't agree with the picture that you have of them in your head, you are baffled and confused and you try to argue them out of it. Moreover, you assume that by saying X they mean Y to make you feel Z, and of course, it's not neccessarily the case. Our assumptions about how things (and people) are aren't as shared as we think.

The answer is communicating and discovering more about each other through "What did you mean when you said ...?", "I believe things are this way... Is that how you view the world?" and "It upsets me when you do ... because I feel ...". Without assumptions and accusations, to keep things civil

I hope this makes sense

[Shamou]

Love relationship over the Internet with someone that has never been seen in person seems to me to be the modern version of what us older guys experienced when we fell in love with a Playboy Magazine centerfold...

The sex was good while it lasted but none of us ever got married with the girl...

.

[munish]

Originally Posted by bleachjt

I have a pretty new relationship with this great girl. It was wonderful in the beginning, but recently we have been arguing and fighting over all kinds of issues, hurting each other. I have to add that it an online relationship, so we have not met in person. She is impatient, stubborn and selfish, I am patient, stubborn and selfish. It's the stubborn and selfish part that we struggle with. Last night I said something that made her put up all her defenses and I was trying desperately to bring it down. We both wanted different things, and in the end she gave in to me, but it didn't feel right and I didn't want it like that. So today we argued some more and it is always like this.

We are both insecure because we have been hurt in previous relationships so we are very easy to hide behind our wall. The real problem is the ego, it allows us to hurt each other even though we love each other. We want to work on this, but I have to be honest and say I'm unsure about myself. How can I love her unconditionally? How can I know when the ego takes over? I want to control it, and not let it control me so I can save this relationship.

Using passion as your only fuel will no more assure you of success than being in love will ensure a successful long-term relationship.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...lf-discipline/

[Old Soul]

We are both insecure because we have been hurt in previous relationships so we are very easy to hide behind our wall.

The first step is recognising that your ego is in the house...
then you can start working on this seperately

..... if one of the two of you don't over come the reacting* then you both could end up just fueling the problem so to speak... and it could ruin chances for a healthier quality relationship

or else the continues hurting and the apolgies won't mean anything... if there is not change

so my thoughts are deal with the immediate:-)) Good luck

[Feathers]

bleachjt, you've gotten some really good responses already, so all I'd like to ask if she sees herself as impatient, stubborn and selfish and you as patient, stubborn and selfish? Do you two have the relationship evaluated in the same way? We draw people into our lives who will help us work on our issues... in this case 'stubborness and selfishness' by your estimation. Does she see that you both need to work on those two things? I ask, because if she does not acknowledge that those are areas she needs to work on too (as well as the impatience,) then you may be stuck to work on that alone, with her showing you just how ugly those qualities can get. And you must decide if you're ready for that kind of relationship.

[bleachjt]

Yes, she sees herself as impatient, selfish and stubborn and I see myself as patient, selfish and stubborn. She sees that we have to work on this. She's the sensible one I would say in this relationship, not to say that I'm not.

We are always able to discuss these things which is very good. She always manages to open my eyes, because I can be so blind sometimes.

I asked her if we could try to stop using negative words like "no", "can't" and "won't" whenever we discuss something, so it doesn't feel so final and threatening. She loved the idea. I hope that will set our discussions in a more positive light.

[Feathers]

I'm glad to hear that you two have the same outlook on the things you each need to work on.

Originally Posted by bleachjt

I asked her if we could try to stop using negative words like "no", "can't" and "won't" whenever we discuss something, so it doesn't feel so final and threatening. She loved the idea. I hope that will set our discussions in a more positive light.

Oh, this is a wonderful suggestion on your part! My dh and I do our best to do this too. Sometimes the more heated discussions lead to one of using one of them, but it rarely happens any more. It takes practice, but it can be done.


Okay... with that out of the way... I want to ask you something else. You asked

How can I love her unconditionally?

How do you define uncondional love? What would loving her unconditionally mean to you?

[Nico Kempe]

Unconditional love. So you want to love her no matter what the conditions are.
The next question I think would then be: to what degree does love depend on conditions?
When you just know somebody for a few weeks, you haven't had 'many' conditions, nor time to build your love.

Unconditional love would mean you'd love here even if you have conflicts and things go wrong.
But maybe love, real love, is unconditional as it is already.
If you really love someone, that is a feeling you have, affection and caring regarding a certain person. If you really love someone, conditions shouldn't affect that love at all.

If conditions would affect love, it probably wouldn't really be love, but more something you just like very much.

Anyway, I'm pretty much in the same situation as you in the way of having found a love online and not having met physically yet.
We have had a silly argument ourselves in a way, which was rather awkward, but then I realized something, something important.

Steve once told me (and thousands of others..) about the egoic mind. It involved observing your ego, noticing it when the 'fear body' jumps into action. You don't need to judge it though, just observe, be aware.
I've applied this on several occasions and so I also did when we got into that awkward moment. I noticed I was getting a bit angry, frustrated.
That alone cooled me down a bit.
Then I found that I was feeling powerless about the situation, I couldn't really do anything about it.

Then the realisation set in. I realised that all those feelings were caused by fear. So I asked myself "why would I have fear?", and the answer is that I didn't want to lose her. You see, I got all those emotions because our relationship got threatened.
Realising that I must really love her then made me happy, it made me feel good.

So when you notice these situations, think about why you have them, it might just be that it's caused merely by a, probably non-existing, threat to your relationship, indicating even more the degree in which you love each-other. You might just turn anger into a great feeling of happiness and grow ever more close to each-other.

[Nico Kempe]

By the way, the egoic mind is a strange thing, but you can use it for good things.

Your ego can use seemingly wrong ways of defending itself, such as using anger.
It can do such things when it feels threatened. It can in turn feel threatened when you try to give up your egoic mind, when you try to be open.
Your ego is the strong sense of "me", and it will do anything to stay that way, thus you can often feel angry, sad or frustrated.
Maybe that's why you can get these arguments in relationships, because the ego wants "me", but you, your spirit, wants "we", just a thought.

Anyway, I often, not often enough tho, know to turn anger into happiness just by observing the emotion when it happens.
If you then deduct that that emotion might indicate your love of someone, all the better.

If I had an argument with someone I hardly know, it wouldn't be much of a deal and I'd easily walk away.
Now if I had an argument with someone I love, it in fact would matter a great deal and my emotions would be greatly amplified.

So in that way you can convert your level of emotion into knowledge of how much you really care.

I found this very empowering at times, it only made me feel better eventually.

[bleachjt]

Originally Posted by Feathers

I'm glad to hear that you two have the same outlook on the things you each need to work on.



Oh, this is a wonderful suggestion on your part! My dh and I do our best to do this too. Sometimes the more heated discussions lead to one of using one of them, but it rarely happens any more. It takes practice, but it can be done.


Okay... with that out of the way... I want to ask you something else. You asked


How do you define uncondional love? What would loving her unconditionally mean to you?

Well, for me unconditional love is being able to love someone with no strings attached, not "I would love her more if she just...." or "If you do this I would love you more..." things like that. Just pure love. It doesn't have to conflict with my own interests, wants and needs necessarily.

[bleachjt]

Just a little update. I really feel like I have grown recently. It's almost been a week and no sign of arguing. It's like we're both watching over each other now (in a good way), taking care of each other's feelings.

I haven't even felt like arguing, and I see changes in her as well. She is more aware of my feelings, and I feel like we're more responsible now. We still have as much fun as before, but we're definitively in a better place emotionally.

I know that my ego is plotting it's revenge right now and will pop up from time to time, but that's ok. If I am not able to control it, she can and vice versa.

Thanks for everyone's advice and input. It's been really helpful