Conflict vs. Harmony

[AidanMatthews216]

(The following is all only IMO):

What are good and evil?

In my opinion, nothing whatsoever. They are completely useless words used to describe the actions or values of others we like or don't like. But why do we have to have labels for those things?

The problem is that people imagine other valuers holding other values to be a personal problem for themselves--even though the values are not theirs. To me, this makes no sense. This would only be accurate if values are something that float around outside of us, and we choose either to accept them or oppose them. There are Rules which you must either Obey or Disobey. If this is true, then people are actually divided into these two labeled groups- and the Evil people are indeed a big problem for the Good people and vice versa; after all, the universe itself dictates that they are opposed, like matter and anti-matter.

However, it's not so clear, because from the Evil perspective, the labels are swapped. Who is to say which is better, Good or Evil? Since Good is just the word for whichever of those we prefer... it turns out that *people* are actually where the labels come from... not from the world itself. This means that not only is there no sense labeling anyone else (they'll just label you right back!) there's no sense seeing the situation as a battle, a competition, or even a conflict. Nobody is in conflict in a world where everyone holds the same central value: "Uphold what you see as good." In THAT world, conflicts of interest are like tectonic plates colliding--at first there's a lot of scraping and rumbling, but in the end what a beautiful mountain you have! It's almost as if you are working *together* to accomplish your respective goals--and even though you sometimes work against one another, you are simply two factors of a single equation, culminating in success for one or both of you.

If Good and Evil are always in the first and third person respectively, then they are pretty meaningless as labels. They are not a statement of an absolute fact but a petty way of saying how we approve or disapprove or someone else, *as if* it were an absolute fact. That is arrogant and useless. If someone wants to steal from you, harm you, or hinder your progress, the best thing you can do is to take action against them, find a way around them, or learn to live with them. Condemning them will only add saliva to the world.

Feedback please!

[JohnPlace]

Let's say, for a moment, that we all agreed to remove the world "evil" from our vocabulary. The underlying concept that led to the creation of the word "evil" in the first place remains, so eliminating the word is semantics -- and quite useless.

As with all broad and complicated topics, it's hard to talk about evil without first agreeing on a definition. Yes, I know, that means we have differing opinions about evil, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't worth discussing.

It just means that conversations about these topics are hard work and require intellectual or spiritual axioms. In this way, evil is a lot like love. There are lots of different opinions about what evil and love are, but the underlying concepts are important.

I think most of us would agree that certain actions harm the public good. Furthermore, I think most of us would agree that certain actions are egregious violations of decency. Just because we might disagree about what these actions are does not mean the topic is not worth pursuing.

Like many of life's deepest questions, there are no easy answers. Except, in some situations (the obvious ones especially), we might find that the topic is not nearly so complicated as some people would have us believe.

[Chet]

Concepts of good and evil are more cultural than natural, an agreement on which is which would be limited by the time and place as well as personal philosophies.

[Keith]

I agree that labels lead to a simplified and distorted understanding of the underlying reality, and that 'evil' is probably a particularly useless label. (vide my .sig ).

However, to say:

Nobody is in conflict in a world where everyone holds the same central value: "Uphold what you see as good."

is IMO, ludicrous. It undermines your point about labels by requiring a label of 'good' - and an individually contradictory one at that! That means that whenever upholding your label of good clashes with someone else upholding their label of good - you have conflict!

IMO, "seek to understand" would be a considerably better golden rule...

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by Keith

I agree that labels lead to a simplified and distorted understanding of the underlying reality, and that 'evil' is probably a particularly useless label. (vide my .sig ).

Right... but not so much good, I've decided...

However, to say:
is IMO, ludicrous. It undermines your point about labels by requiring a label of 'good' - and an individually contradictory one at that! That means that whenever upholding your label of good clashes with someone else upholding their label of good - you have conflict!

Looking back I realize that I was too general with my opinions of the words themselves. Although evil is pretty excessive, I think that "good" can be an extremely useful word, if you use it right--that is, in the context of your own values, not as a judgment of someone else's. We need some kind of words to label our *own* actions, because we are in a position to judge those. If I have a well-defined idea of what Good is for me, than I can seek it better. The only mistake would be to consider other ideas of Good to be in conflict. Other people don't "conflict" with you in that sense any more than a rock conflicts with your feet when you trip over it. It would be ludicrous to call the rock "evil" or imagine it has "opposed" you.

So in other words there is no conflict because a disagreement of specific values is not, in itself, a problem.

IMO, "seek to understand" would be a considerably better golden rule...

Absolutely. But if you can't understand, or don't agree...

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by AidanMatthews216

I think that "good" can be an extremely useful word, if you use it right--that is, in the context of your own values, not as a judgment of someone else's.

The same applies to "evil." If I think of something I could do, but label it "evil" I won't do it.

Originally Posted by AidanMatthews216

Other people don't "conflict" with you in that sense any more than a rock conflicts with your feet when you trip over it. It would be ludicrous to call the rock "evil" or imagine it has "opposed" you.

Would you feel differently if the rock moved, to be under you foot just as you were about the walk past?

Originally Posted by AidanMatthews216

But if you can't understand, or don't agree...

If you can't understand then you need to learn a bit more. Which may mean learning how to figure out what the person you're learning from is trying to teach.

And understanding doesn't require agreement, but it will facilitate compromise in the face of disagreement.

[medaille]

Here's the shorthand of my opinion.

God or the creator or consciousness created everything. If you believe in a kind and loving God, then "evil" is still good because even if we don't understand it evil still serves the purpose God gave it when he created it.

Right now, I think "Good" is anything that helps to raise the overall consciousness of the planet including the individuals on the planet. "Evil" lowers consciousness. Good brings you closer to God. Evil takes you away from God. Good helps you love. Evil helps you fear. Good increases happiness. Evil decreases happiness.

Those are all equivalent to each other, because the universe is set up in such away to help you become closer to God by increasing your ability to love others and yourself which increases you ability to make yourself and others happy.

Evil is really good because pain and unhappiness is life's way of telling you that you have a misunderstanding of life which is keeping you away from God and happiness. It's a symptom which helps you find the cure.

If you can't love evil, you can't love God fully.

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by medaille

Here's the shorthand of my opinion.

God or the creator or consciousness created everything. If you believe in a kind and loving God, then "evil" is still good because even if we don't understand it evil still serves the purpose God gave it when he created it.

Right now, I think "Good" is anything that helps to raise the overall consciousness of the planet including the individuals on the planet. "Evil" lowers consciousness. Good brings you closer to God. Evil takes you away from God. Good helps you love. Evil helps you fear. Good increases happiness. Evil decreases happiness.

Those are all equivalent to each other, because the universe is set up in such away to help you become closer to God by increasing your ability to love others and yourself which increases you ability to make yourself and others happy.

Evil is really good because pain and unhappiness is life's way of telling you that you have a misunderstanding of life which is keeping you away from God and happiness. It's a symptom which helps you find the cure.

If you can't love evil, you can't love God fully.

If everything in creation is good and according to God's plan, then why bother with Good and Evil? Why have values? Whatever you do will be "good." You may as well give up preferring good to evil or evil to good, because what difference does it make?

[medaille]

If everything in creation is good and according to God's plan, then why bother with Good and Evil? Why have values? Whatever you do will be "good." You may as well give up preferring good to evil or evil to good, because what difference does it make?

Evil brings pain and suffering. It takes you away from God, away from love, and away from happiness. It merely shows you that you are heading the wrong way. By committing evil acts you are delaying the happiness and love that you could be experiencing. Eventually, you'll get sick of the pain and the fear and you'll give it up and start heading towards God, but if you are making the choice consciously, why delay love and happiness?

Evil is necessary because it contrasts with good and allows good to be defined and understood. If you didn't experience pain and suffering you wouldn't move away from it towards God as quickly. So for those who aren't making the decision to consciously ascend, this helps reroute them back towards God.