The worst dilemma I've faced yet.

[Oceanman16]

Hello,
I’m currently dealing with a dilemma. It perplexes me beyond belief and seems to hijack my focus every two minutes of the day. It deals with a relationship with my now ex-girlfriend of 3 and a half years. I’m 35 and she’s a mature 29. Here’s the ‘Readers’ Digest’ version: We had a wonderful first 2 and a half years. Lots of travel, lots of fun, both of us growing, discovering. Then, during the last year, I began to question if she was the right one for me. For some reason or another, it nagged me. I loved her, we had a great time, but I seemed to be focusing on the things she wasn’t. I only later realized just how these negative thoughts can only sabotage a relationship and doom it to fail. Sure enough, after sitting on the fence for the better part of a year, I reluctantly decided to move out, because I didn’t know what else to do. She had been waiting for me for a year to make my decision about us. When I moved out, we were still great friends, still spent time together.

During the first few months after I moved out, a feeling of regret slowly grew inside me. I realized that I had made a mistake. It was only after I had shifted my thought process from that of “she is not…” to “she has so much…” that I realized how much of a mistake I made. It was a classic case of ‘ya dunno whatcha got til it’s gone’. At any rate, I told her how I felt. I wore my heart on my sleeve and explained that I was sorry for not realizing earlier, and how I seemed to focus on what she wasn’t, not what she was. She was surprised about my sudden turn of feelings. She said she didn’t know how she felt about me. She asked ‘why now?’. I didn’t know why now, other than I didn’t know what it would be like to not have her in my life, until I really didn’t have her in my life. I explained that I truly believed we could have an amazing life together. I believed this because I realized the error in my thoughts about us in the past.

It’s now been two months since I told her how I’ve felt. She has re-iterated that she doesn’t know where she stands. She has indicated that she feels, I too, am very special and that she still has feelings for me. She is, alas, seeing someone else, so she’s informed me this week. She says it’s just casual, she’s taking it one day at a time, he lives a 1 hour flight away and sees him irregularly.

Herein lies my dilemma: I’m a firm believer of ‘intention manifestation’. I’m struggling with holding on to the notion of “us” being together eventually. Do I continue to hold this thought in my head & heart, picturing us together, believing us to be together? Or do I let go of her and try to move on, and hope that maybe one day in the future the time will be right for us, and both of us will be ready for each other at the same time again?

It’s painful to flip back & forth between these two ideas. I’m weary from it all. Any thoughts you might have would be helpful.

Sorry this is such a long post.

All the best~

[Michelle]

Forget the LOA for a moment.

If you really love her, fight for her. Simple.

In any case, learn from this and pave the way to a better future for yourself.

You may consider further cultivating your ability and willingness to commit. I suspect by looking at other areas of your life you would find a tendency toward reluctance in the commitment area. You will have to examine the origins of your fears.

When my boyfriend and I first met I chose to go against intuition and go out with another guy because he struck me as somehow "better". When I canceled a date with my now boyfriend he said to me "some guys don't get lucky", which broke my heart. After a month of misery with the other guy who treated me poorly it dawned on me that my now boyfriend would consider himself lucky to be with me. It was at that point that my whole view concerning love and relationships changed. My self respect grew and I realized I deserve to be treated well. In the end I asked my now boyfriend back out and we have been together since. He is the love of my life, of that I am sure. Only it took a period of misery to appreciate that fact.

I don't think, however, that I would be as kind to myself in the same situation. If a man is not sure if he wants to be with me, I would send him on his way.

[Oceanman16]

Thank you for your insight Michelle.
I've told her that I am fighting for her. I find it hard to strike a balance though. I don't want her to see me as a needy puppy dog. I need to find a way to come at this from a position of strength and power in myself and confidence in who I am.

It's tough when she's seeing someone else right now. But I think you're right: I do have to fight for her. I just have to find the right way to do it so I don't push her away.

[Elenny]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Forget the LOA for a moment.

I don't think, however, that I would be as kind to myself in the same situation. If a man is not sure if he wants to be with me, I would send him on his way.

I agree with Michelle on that line. I know how you feel Oceanman16, but your sort of asked for it. When you ask for time off in a relationship it basically means "give me some time to see if there's someone out there better than you".

Maybe you should fight for her, but if you don't get her back, you have no one to blame but yourself.

That's a little bit of tough love for you, but on the bright side, I'm sure there is someone else out there who can make you happy also, so it's not the end of the world.

[Kamma]

I also agree with the notion that you should fight for her. I would also advise that you also give her space and time. I know this sounds a bit strange in that you should be with her to fight but if you spend the entire time calling and pleading then you will probably chase her away just because of the feeling of being smothered.

A happy balance of loving contact and the time to live is what's needed. Good luck finding it!

[Matthew Shea]

I also agree with Michelle, but I'd add that if you truly think she's the one for you, you need to get off the fence, stop thinking and start doing. You're in a position where you've got your work cut out for you to win her back. You're going to have to woo her like you've never met her before.

Best of luck!

[medaille]

Herein lies my dilemma: I’m a firm believer of ‘intention manifestation’. I’m struggling with holding on to the notion of “us” being together eventually. Do I continue to hold this thought in my head & heart, picturing us together, believing us to be together? Or do I let go of her and try to move on, and hope that maybe one day in the future the time will be right for us, and both of us will be ready for each other at the same time again?

I think you should get rid of trying to manifest "us." "Us" is very specific and as a result is harder for the universe to make true for you. Instead I would concentrate on manifesting something else. In your imagination, create an ideal women. How does she relate with you? How does she make your life better? Try to manifest her and not the specific "her." Let go of the idea that she has to be "the one." That is a clingy mindset from the ego and it will strangle whatever you want. Also maybe just try to manifest a constantly improving relationship with her that moves in the direction that you want it to go.

Secondly, be grateful for her (the specific her) and this twist you've encountered in your life. This is a wonderful opportunity for you to grow into a better version of yourself.

Also this is a great opportunity for you to improve yourself in a different direction. By improving yourself, you are also making yourself more attractive to her and add something new for her to look forward to. Maybe you haven't played a sport in a while and would like to play basketball or softball or something. Maybe you could take up some other pursuit like taking cooking classes or learning pottery.

[JohnPlace]

OceanMan16, I feel for you. When I was younger, I found myself in a relationship with a wonderful woman -- but I kept focusing on everything she wasn't instead of everything she was.

STUPID.

Listen, it would have been fine if she had truly been a bad match for me, but she was a fantastic match.

What I did to my girl (and what you did to yours) put her through hell. Can you imagine what it feels like for your partner to constantly send the message: "Well, I'm not really sure if you're good enough for me, but let's hang around for a while to find out."
It's a rediculous way to treat someone. And it hurts.

If someone isn't right for us, we should be decisive and move on. This prolonged swing that you and I took through the land of uncertainty wasn't fair to our girlfriends. My girlfriend was afraid to take me back because I might hurt her again. Yours might be feeling the same way.

Anyway, long story short: She left me. But I sincerely asked her to return and told her I had changed my ways. And let me tell you, brother, anyone who says a person can't change has never met me.

She came back to me. I changed.

This happened 6 years ago (and we have now been married for 3), and I can honestly say this woman is my soul mate, and in all these years, I have never once focused on the things she isn't.

If your girl is your soul mate, go after her. But, here are 4 parting points:

1) It's important to understand why you felt the way you did. In my case, my feelings resulted from fear of commitment.
2) You have to know, deep in your heart, that the problem was YOU, not HER. Otherwise, you won't have the power to fix it.
3) You have to know you can change.
4) If she's moved on to someone else, you have to ask yourself if you're happy being second best. I wouldn't be.

The question now is whether she's willing to give you another chance.

I truly, truly wish you the best.

[machine]

From my personal experience of being in the same position a few times this is what I would do:

I would cut it all off. This will force the issue to the forefront and get resolution. She is having her cake and eat it too.... holding you at arms length (keeping you as a safety net) while going out to test the waters and seeing someone else.

You have now put yourself in the same position that she was in when you were undecided. How long are you going to wait around for?

I too have held on too long and in hindsight I've learned that if someone is on the fence about wanting to be with me just sever the contact and see what happens.

I would always choose to force the issue and move on with however it lays out. I prefer that over hanging on and going through all that termoil while she keeps me hanging on as second fiddle. Every time I desperately hung on it only caused me more pain and prolonged the pain. It also made it less likely for me to get what I wanted (the girl) because it gave her the opportunity to go out and see other people while she had a fall-back guy (me) waiting for her. And as everyone knows, the beginning of relationships are always (usually) the best, so that's what you are competing against. New vs. Old Hat (you).

As far as fighting for her. I would fight for a woman I loved, but I realized in this kind of situation the person you would be fighting is her. Is that a show of love?

Give her space to decide. But give her space without you there. And tell her you are moving on because you don't want to just 'hang on' while she makes up her mind. I know in a way this sounds counter-intuitive to your desire of getting her back, but it will force her to think about living life without you in it. (That situation got you to look at your own behavior and got you to see in her what you couldn't see before you broke up)

She's either going to come back or leave. Either way you can start moving on rather than living in painful limbo state you find yourself in now.

Remember, this is just my opinion and not a solution if you want a guarantee to get her back.

machine

[Betrade]

I would try and get her back, but knock off the heart on the sleeve routine immediately. It's a turn off. Women are attracted to confidence, and begging and whining could drive her away.

It may already be too late, because sometimes when a woman makes up her mind, there's no changing it. OTOH, only you and she know where one another stands, so if you believe you still have a shot, then go for it, but change your tactics. Take control, grab the bull by the horns, etc. Tell, her you're going somewhere in life and you want (not need) her to come along with you, and that she won't regret it. Be confident and intruiging. Make yourself attaractive to her and present youself as someone she's would not pass up for any reason. Make yourself better than the other guy; a person that she would be a fool to pass up.

That's the best advice I can give you. It may not work at this point, but it's worth a try if you love this woman. Being too honest about your feelings can actually ruin your chances. You can be more honest later; once you get her back.

I speak fom experience. Not all women are the same by any means, but there are certian tactics that have a better chance of working than others.

[Oceanman16]

It has been a few days since I've checked back here and I'm totally floored by the advice you've all offered. I really appreciate it all.

The advice seems to have a common thread. Be strong, be confident, fight for her but don't smother her. All great advice.

Right now I have to concentrate on my life and making sure I'm healthy and happy. I keep busy with exciting work projects, I'm busier than ever there, and am about to go to the next level with my career. So this kind of turmoil has some benefits in that it forces me to work harder than ever on these projects. I'm sure it all makes me look that much more attractive in her eyes. In the meantime, I'm considering dating. It will be very casual but I need some distraction and some fun right now. (maybe that will work to my advantage too.)

I will also try to heed Medaille's advice to "get rid of trying to manifest 'us' ".

Once again, thanks for all your advice. I will keep checking.

[Oceanman16]

Well, a little time has passed and I've found it hard to strike a balance between fighting for her and looking out for myself. How do I fight for the woman I love when she's dating another guy? I feel like I've let her know precisely how I feel, that I love her very much and would love to share my life with her. My sense is that I've done all that I can do at this point and the ball is in her court. She is listed as one of my friends on 'FaceBook' and I've now decided I have to delete her from my list. I just can't bear to see anymore of her communications with this new guy. It just kills me. I will let her know that I don't harbour any animosity, I just don't want to be apprised of her interactions with New Guy.

As hard as this is for me to let go, I think it's the only way I can gain some kind of strength. In the meantime, I think I'll phone that really fun girl I've met recently to hang out with. I need a distraction right now. I just hope that maybe someday we'll both be ready for each other at the same time again.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Hey, Oceanman. I know that feeling is really sickening. I think you are making a good choice. Letting things settle without anger and keeping busy with other people/distractions seems like the best idea for now. If you leave things in her court and don't have any animosity, who knows what might happen down the road? Maybe she just needs to see how life is without you, the way you were unsure about the relationship. I am sure that year of confusion was hard on both of you. I know I would have a little trouble just going back to normal after all of that. So, good for you for taking care of yourself. Either you will both get on the same page at the same time, or you will move into the next chapter of your lives separately. Either way, I think you are doing pretty well. I wish you the best.

[Oceanman16]

Thank you for the kind words. I am sure I will eventually be doing better.
It's still pretty tough right now, but I'm getting stronger. I will not be in touch with her for awhile.

She contacted me last week and asked if I would mind taking care of the dog while she went away (I love this dog so so much and raised him from a puppy with her for 3 years). I immediately knew that she was going to see her new guy who lives an hour flight away. As much as I would love to spend time with the dog, and do her a favour, I obviously said no. There's no way on earth I'm going to dog-sit for her while she's away with him. So now that I know she's spending the week with him, it's all I can think about.

Sometimes the mind can be your worst enemy.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Oceanman16

Sometimes the mind can be your worst enemy.

That's true. But it doesn't have to be. You can consciously direct your thoughts and emotions. It's definitely not always easy, but in situations like this, it's very helpful. When those plagueing thoughts come into your mind and a knot forms in the pit of your stomach, choose to release that feeling and thought. Just notice and acknowledge them and then let them drift away. When you start to analyze and mull over it, you can get into an almost panicked state very quickly. It helps to keep yourself busy with other things so you have something else to focus on. And get outside in the light of day as much as you can. No matter how badly I am feeling, it's always a lot better in the sunshine than in a dark room. I don't know if this will help, but it did for me. Once you accept that you are completely responsible for how you feel, it becomes a little harder to stay down all the time, because you know it's a choice to do so. That said, I do know what it's like. It's easy to sink into despair when something like this happens. After experiencing it, I don't want anyone else to.

[Old Soul]

If this lady is your "Eve"....... and you know it

go after her:-) do not give up.. Until she makes it clear that she wants you to .. then respect it

[Oceanman16]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

When those plagueing thoughts come into your mind and a knot forms in the pit of your stomach, choose to release that feeling and thought. Just notice and acknowledge them and then let them drift away.

I will try to do that, ATC. Thank you, that's great advice. Releasing the thoughts may take practice, but with time, I hope it'll improve.

Originally Posted by Old Soul

If this lady is your "Eve"....... and you know it
go after her:-) do not give up.. Until she makes it clear that she wants you to .. then respect it

Throughout all of this saga, since I let her know my feelings and told her I want her back in my life, she has never said "No, it won't work." She has consistently said, "I don't know how I feel. I don't know if we'll be back together again." Maybe that means she really and truly is confused about how she feels about me and maybe it means, she want's to see how much I'm willing to fight for her. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's hard to gauge when to fight and when to give her the space and time she needs. I want to fight for her, but I don't know how to do that, now that she's with someone new. (who, I'm told by friends is the complete opposite of me and really not her type. Her friends are scratching their heads on the choice).

Thank you so much for your insight. I really appreciate it and try to heed what feels right.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

It sounds like she is confused. And she probably doesn't want to hurt your feelings either (in saying an absolute no). I think continuing to take good care of yourself is paramount. Definitely take the pieces of advice on here that resonate with you and leave the rest. The right choice will make itself when the time is right and not a moment before.

The fact that her friends can't figure her out right now speaks to her confusion.

If you like reading at all in the area of self-help and relationships, check out a book by Byron Katie called I Need Your Love - Is That True?. I think it might have some good insight for you.

Best wishes.

[Oceanman16]

Thanks for the book recommendation, ATC. I'll check it out for sure.
I think you're right about several things. I do believe she's confused about what to do. I know her feelings for me have diminished over the past year. She's told me that she cares for me very much, but by now the romantic love has surely withered to almost nil. I also think that because she cares for me so much and knows how bad I'm hurting right now, that she can't bear to tell me 'no'. This is my biggest fear, but it's something I have to prepare for. Her parents divorced when she was very young and have just reunited after more than 20 years apart. I pointed to them as an example that it's never too late to salvage a relationship if it still has value for those involved. In the meantime, I know it's time to take care of myself and move on. I will do so without fully closing the door on the possibility of our getting back together again someday.

thanks again for your insight and advice.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Oceanman16

In the meantime, I know it's time to take care of myself and move on. I will do so without fully closing the door on the possibility of our getting back together again someday.

That's a good attitude to take. I do know how difficult it is though. If you need someone to talk to, I'm here as well as so many other really nice and helpful people on this forum. You can PM me if you like.

I think you will find that book very helpful. I'm glad to hear you will take a look at it.

[MM19]

I just want to say, this post was very cathartic for me. To give you some insight, I am currently in the position your ex was in when you ended the relationship. My ex had been waivering about our relationship for a little over a year. I was ready, and he wasn't sure he was ready. When he ended the relationship, he told me he wasn't sure he could end it if he thought it was forever, that he still loved me, but just felt he needed "to go at it alone" for a while. He is already seeing other women, but his family is still contacting me, as is he, and it is rough.

So, here are my thoughts, from a woman in her position: If my ex were to come back, which I think he might, I would be much like she is. It is very difficult to get back out there, but do you think she is really IN LOVE with this guy if she is keeping you on the back burner. No. If she was, she would tell you to back off and it was over, that you had your chance. Ironically, when I got together with this recent ex, my former ex called to tell me he wanted me back. I told him I really cared about him, but that I was moving on with my life, and wished all the best for him. THAT is what you do when you think your new man is really "better for you" than the ex.

What I think might be happening here is she finally "moved on." Her friends/family probably encouraged her to do so for a very long time, but she still held out hope until she thought you were gone. Painful process, and in a way, it is always our biggest hope/fear that the ex will "re-enter" the picture, just when you have done so. This man probably makes her feel loved, cherished, and like he is not going to leave her - safety. After a year of "riding the fence" with you, she probably would feel an idiot just to hop back in without putting you "to the test."

THAT SAID - she is putting you to the test, and probably has a lot of hurt/anger about the past. Do not give her too much power. You have told her how you feel. You have explained why to the best of your abilities. She may just be using her relationship with this guy as ammunition right now. The best revenge, you know? So, maybe don't watch the dog, and don't make yourself too accessible, but when she calls, talk to her. Don't beg, plead, apologize, etc. All you needed/wanted to say has been said. If you act the victim now, to her relationship with this man, etc., she won't respect you and will take this as a power for her own forward propulsion. Instead, do do everything to make yourself the man you weren't when you were with her.

If you were worried, while in the relationship about all she was not, chances are whatever criticisms you had of her, were actually criticisms of yourself. If you thought, for example, she wasn't smart enough, sexy enough, exciting enough, financially stable enough, etc. Most likely, those are qualities in you you need to work on. So do it! While you are busy making yourself the best man you can be, instead of focusing on winning her back, she WILL have you in the back of her mind, and will be comparing him to you. AND TRUST ME, you two have WAY more history, way more memories to look back on. With time, all the bad stuff starts to fade away, and he won't be her "hero" saving her from feeling unsafe. Most likely, once you do that, you will get a call. Just be sure you are ready for it - all of it!

Make sure your finances are in order, your house is organized, you have a great group of friends, you are in shape, you have new and interesting extra-curricular activities to discuss, read a few books, etc. IF she comes back, she is probably not looking just to settle into the relationship as it was before the break, but somewhere a bit more serious. Prepare yourself and all will be fine! ALL LOVE AND LUCK!!!! Must admit, selfishly, I REALLY HOPE IT WORKS OUT WITH YOU TWO! Would be an inspiration for me right now!

[Oceanman16]

Thanks MM19.
Having a woman's perspective, and especially one who's in that situation now, is invaluable. I appreciate your thoughts and advice.

It's been awhile since we've talked. She commented that it's sad that our friendship has suffered as a result of this, but she understands that I'm trying to get past all of this. I explained that it's just too hard for me to stay in contact with her while she's with him. Maybe someday I'll be OK with it, but right now I have to get on with my own life.

I'm dating someone right now (very casually mind you) who is a bit different than her. Much more laid-back. It feels a little bit more my style of partner. Being with this new girl has definitely decreased the amount of hurt I feel and has made me feel better, but I certainly still miss her alot. I know if my ex were to see things getting a bit more serious with this new girl, it would be hard for her, the way it is for me to see her with her new guy.

Maybe she is putting me to a bit of test, maybe she is legitimately moving on with her life. Either way, I'm trying to move on. Being in limbo is not healthy. I'm keeping fit (very fit actually, surfing is my coping mechanism) and always trying to improve who I am, and my interactions with people. Maybe it'll work out for the two of us or maybe we'll find happiness with other people, either way, we'll all be happy I guess so it's win-win.

thanks again for your thoughts and advice.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Hey, Oceanman. Glad to hear things are moving in a positive direction (at least that's the way I see it when I read your post). You sound pretty at ease, even though I know this is a really tough time. I wish you abundant happiness whether with this new girl or wherever you go next! Thanks for the update.

[MM19]

You know, Oceanman, I think it is a great thing to keep dating during these periods. I have actually heard that it is a good way to reduce the tension, and I too have begun dating - casually. There is no need to "push" for anything serious, especially when there is someone else in your heart.

In the end, it has not harmed your friendship with your ex that this new thing has arisen. That is a lie that she is telling herself. It may have effected the KIND of friendship you can have right now. You are right to protect in the ways you must. If you cannot speak with her while she is with other men, then don't. As my mother always said, "maintain personal dignity," and I too find it hard to maintain when talking to an ex who is with someone new. That she is missing your friendship says something. She is missing you!

That is not said to keep you "hanging on," but, to my mind, I must add, you do not know what will be! If you truly can envision in your mind, you becoming a more healthy, stable, independent version of yourself, and you can continue seeing your own value, dating, not becoming co-dependent on another relationship, etc., and yet, you can TRULY envision her missing you and coming around. You can see the ENTIRE thing happening from start to finish: She misses you calling, starts reflecting on why, realizes what is not right about this new relationship, you have both healed the hurts of your first "go around," etc. and she calls you to say she has ended it with this man and wants you back, then it will probably be so. If, however, your fears are a block - that she might not, that this guy is better for her, etc., she probably won't. I am praying for you and am very proud of the peace and progress you are displaying.

In the meantime, you don't need to listen to the negative things she gives to you. You only need listen to yourself. Is she the woman for you? Is this right? Can this be corrected? Do you REALLY want her back or is this just about the bruising of egos that happens when an ex moves on? If she is the one, and you are certain, don't let this new relationship bruise your ego. Remember, it is most likely her relationship with this man that will make a new relationship with you possible - she will see what she loved about you, she will not wish to go back out there again, she will see how you have changed, and will remember all the things you shared. He is just a log in your river. Float on by him, and feel assured she will return. If you aren't sure if she is the one, and this new woman feels more your pace, realize you might be holding on to her to restore your ego. Let it go, and realize you did so the last time for good reasons. Do not mourn her being with someone else. See the love and happiness she is sharing with someone else as your green light to go on and enjoy your life. You are free from the guilt of having let her go. All thoughts and prayers to you! Love and luck, MM19.