The Woman I LOVE, and her FEAR

[Philemon]

I love this woman. I'm talking deep, romantic, all out, Shakespearean, love.

One big problem: FEAR

At least that's what I think the problem is.

For example:

All day yesterday we exchanged love and excitement about getting to be together that night. Lots of bliss. On my way there, almost arrived, I receive a text "I think I should be by myself tonight. I'm sorry."

So I call (This is a cycle by the way)

A conversation ensues where I just want her to communicate with me and she keeps telling me she's afraid. I'm confused how the drastic shift occurred -- all day love and excitement, now depression, sadness, fear.

I gently tug on the teeth of her sadness and depression and finally get her to tell me what's bothering her. Then I say, "OK, thanks for letting me know. Let me help with that."

But no, that's not it. I get off the phone. Negative texts start flying at me. I think her fear makes her delusional. I can't get her to see.

I teach this stuff to people, show them all the research and thoughtful writing on it, but I can't seem to help the woman I love, and in turn help our relationship. I think it's killing us.

What to do?

[RonSouther]

Is she bipolar?

[Philemon]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Is she bipolar?

Not diagnosed. I think so sometimes. She rejects clinical, psychological diagnosis, for the most part.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Philemon

Not diagnosed. I think so sometimes. She rejects clinical, psychological diagnosis, for the most part.

would she read this? ADHD Self Help - A Story of Healing - Profound-Self-Help.com

or some of the bipolar stuff on my site?

I see this everywhere....truly intelligent gifted people that have horrible self-images from a life of rejection and the result is a quirky personality.

I created this quote to boil it down....."Stupid" judges "Intelligent" to be "Retarded".

[Philemon]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

would she read this? ADHD Self Help - A Story of Healing - Profound-Self-Help.com

or some of the bipolar stuff on my site?

I see this everywhere....truly intelligent gifted people that have horrible self-images from a life of rejection and the result is a quirky personality.

I created this quote to boil it down....."Stupid" judges "Intelligent" to be "Retarded".

Thanks for the thought. I'm not sure this would vibe with her. She is quite informed on ADHD, has strong opinions about it too. Her focus does tend to wander sometimes, but whose doesn't? Overall, I would say she's very self-aware. She can look back on a situation objectively and see where she acted out of intent or by accident . She recognizes her actions.

Even though she exhibits some bipolar tendencies, I don't think it's drastic enough to say she IS bipolar, and I don't think she needs medicated or anything like that. Basically, we need to figure out, together, how to talk about things without getting upset. One person gets upset, that feeds anothers emotions, and the cycle starts. The same thing happens with our powerful love, too. We're both very empathic, and I think sometimes that becomes a weakness of ours because we both tend to start feeling whatever the other person is feeling.

Thanks again, Ron

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Philemon

Thanks for the thought. I'm not sure this would vibe with her. She is quite informed on ADHD, has strong opinions about it too. Her focus does tend to wander sometimes, but whose doesn't? Overall, I would say she's very self-aware. She can look back on a situation objectively and see where she acted out of intent or by accident . She recognizes her actions.

Even though she exhibits some bipolar tendencies, I don't think it's drastic enough to say she IS bipolar, and I don't think she needs medicated or anything like that. Basically, we need to figure out, together, how to talk about things without getting upset. One person gets upset, that feeds anothers emotions, and the cycle starts. The same thing happens with our powerful love, too. We're both very empathic, and I think sometimes that becomes a weakness of ours because we both tend to start feeling whatever the other person is feeling.

Thanks again, Ron

I got no doubt at all that she's exceptionally intelligent.

If the harmony is deep enough, you've got a journey of love. It's a rough ride but worth it in the end. It keeps exposing each other's emotional dependencies wherever each is unable to be happy without the other.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Philemon

Not diagnosed. I think so sometimes. She rejects clinical, psychological diagnosis, for the most part.

Bipolar and ADHD are negative labels...anyone struggling with self image won't want these labels...clarity makes one free of labels....instead the person sees that there's no other way to be than to be self and all this pressure for meds and therapy is really nothing but reinforcement of a negative self image.

[RonSouther]

In other words, there's a huge misunderstanding here, not an illness or a disease.

[Criseyde]

Next time she doesn't want to talk about something, don't press her -- give her space. Tell her you'll help her if she wants. Continue to be as loving and understanding as you can. Bit by bit, she may come around and start trusting you. Or she may not, and the relationship may end. But if she does, it would be the best gift you could give, and either way, you'll have done your best.

[lighthouse]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Next time she doesn't want to talk about something, don't press her -- give her space. Tell her you'll help her if she wants. Continue to be as loving and understanding as you can. Bit by bit, she may come around and start trusting you. Or she may not, and the relationship may end. But if she does, it would be the best gift you could give, and either way, you'll have done your best.

I do agree. Give her space. Everytime you will help her then when she will learn? You must throw light on the path and ask to walk but if she is unable to do then please leave. Love and fear are opposite. When love is fear won't be there (specifically this kind of)

[Philemon]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Next time she doesn't want to talk about something, don't press her -- give her space. Tell her you'll help her if she wants. Continue to be as loving and understanding as you can. Bit by bit, she may come around and start trusting you. Or she may not, and the relationship may end. But if she does, it would be the best gift you could give, and either way, you'll have done your best.

I've started to lean toward this, too. Thanks for the advice. Thing is, she doesn't always deal positively with space or actually appreciate me giving it.

Eventually, we seem to work it out. For example, today we've talked and resolved things a bit.

It's a conundrum. I'm just trying to keep my patience.

[Books]

Originally Posted by Philemon

I've started to lean toward this, too. Thanks for the advice. Thing is, she doesn't always deal positively with space or actually appreciate me giving it.

Eventually, we seem to work it out. For example, today we've talked and resolved things a bit.

It's a conundrum. I'm just trying to keep my patience.

It sounds like it's moving too fast for her. You say she doesn't appreciate you giving her space but I find that hard to believe. She knows you're not really giving her space or don't want to actually give her space. So she's testing if you're pretending to give her space. The result is known when you immediately jump right back to where you already wanted to be anyway. All crazed out and in love with her.

So then she knows you aren't really giving her space because you want to give her space, but that you're giving her space because it's something you perceive she wants.

In a way she's trying to say she doesn't feel the same way you do because if she actually felt that way she would be acting just like you are. There would be no question about wanting to spend time after talking all day. It just would be a given. Even talking all day to me is usually a signal of trying to latch on to something a little too tightly because you sense that her feelings might not be as intense as your feelings are.

Then the worst part is that you're getting all clinical and new agey on her because you assume her inability to get really connected has to be a problem with HER. You're running some type of program on her where she always ends up being wrong for being concerned about your over involvement.

If it's not naturally happening then all the patience in the world isn't going to make her change how she actually feels. You being "patient" is pointless. What are you waiting for? Her to realize how she should act right?

You're stuck in your own head and emotions. Instead of focusing on trying to solve problems by "talking them out" focus on being interesting or funny. Anytime you go to want to talk about her problems stop yourself. Focus that energy on becoming funnier or more interesting. The rest will take care of itself if it's meant to be.

Listen to what she says and take her seriously. If she doesn't want to hang out leave her alone. Even better is to get to a point where you don't always want to hang out. Do other things in your life more often. Stop text messaging her every five seconds. You'll just burn every topic of conversation out.

[Philemon]

Originally Posted by Books

It sounds like it's moving too fast for her. You say she doesn't appreciate you giving her space but I find that hard to believe. She knows you're not really giving her space or don't want to actually give her space. So she's testing if you're pretending to give her space. The result is known when you immediately jump right back to where you already wanted to be anyway. All crazed out and in love with her.

So then she knows you aren't really giving her space because you want to give her space, but that you're giving her space because it's something you perceive she wants.

In a way she's trying to say she doesn't feel the same way you do because if she actually felt that way she would be acting just like you are. There would be no question about wanting to spend time after talking all day. It just would be a given. Even talking all day to me is usually a signal of trying to latch on to something a little too tightly because you sense that her feelings might not be as intense as your feelings are.

Then the worst part is that you're getting all clinical and new agey on her because you assume her inability to get really connected has to be a problem with HER. You're running some type of program on her where she always ends up being wrong for being concerned about your over involvement.

If it's not naturally happening then all the patience in the world isn't going to make her change how she actually feels. You being "patient" is pointless. What are you waiting for? Her to realize how she should act right?

You're stuck in your own head and emotions. Instead of focusing on trying to solve problems by "talking them out" focus on being interesting or funny. Anytime you go to want to talk about her problems stop yourself. Focus that energy on becoming funnier or more interesting. The rest will take care of itself if it's meant to be.

Listen to what she says and take her seriously. If she doesn't want to hang out leave her alone. Even better is to get to a point where you don't always want to hang out. Do other things in your life more often. Stop text messaging her every five seconds. You'll just burn every topic of conversation out.

You have a few good thoughts worth considering here, but also a lot of assumptions that aren't true. Thanks for posting

[Books]

Originally Posted by Philemon

You have a few good thoughts worth considering here, but also a lot of assumptions that aren't true. Thanks for posting

My major point is that if you don't actually like this girl it's already over. Having to talk about problems is the problem. You have two types of problems. Constructive problems and abstract problems. She might be bi-polar or ADHD but you'll just ruin the relationship by trying to fix it.

I've done the same type of thing. It's the sex that has your mind messed up. Figure out why you love her. Let me give you an example. Jenna Marbles on youtube is so successful because guys are falling in love with her personality.

I can already tell your ego is in the way of seeing the truth of how you're acting. You can't change or fix her cause she doesn't want to change.

On a scale of 1-10 how hot is she? That way I'll be able to judge how much the puddy is messing up your mind.

[CuriousSeeker]

I got some experience getting women to share their fears and traumas which I will try to share.

As many suggest here, giving her space is a step in the right direction. And you might need it as well, in order to not burn out your love for her trying to bang your head against her wall.

Getting women to share is all about trust. When she feels connected to you, that she can trust you to not judge or spread the information she gave you, then she will start sharing. Most people do want to share their fears and to feel accepted and loved even afterwards. One of their biggest fear about sharing is having someone reject them or judge them. Avoid that.

Usually getting a woman into sharing mode takes a fair bit of small talk, humor is a big help, share little things about each other and build the conversation around that. Find something in your lives you share, something she likes to talk about. Build on that. Use humour.

Often the subject will gradually ease into her traumas and fears, but it will feel natural to her. Don't push it, let her open up without forcing her. Good listening is often just about affirming what she just said, i.e. repeating back what she said in your own words so that she see you understood her. Often such a feedback cycle will lead her to share more. Avoid judgemental or giving your opinion on her fears.

At some point she might be shutting down, she might need more time to be more intimate about more details. At that point I would usually not push her, but just thank her for sharing, show your appreciation for that she can trust you enough to open up. Then gently try to change the subject.
When she feels open again you will naturally move the conversation back into the place where she can share.

You can often, using your social intelligence, gently nudge the topic over to her fears, but it should be natural given the conversation, and not intrusive.
Be gentle with it and carefully consider her response to it to see if she seems open to share more. Back out if she hesitates.

Often just stating a fact about the situation without judging can also help them to open up. If she goes silent, just say something like .. it's hard for you to put words on your feelings, and let her pick up on that.
Other things that might help is just stating that intimacy is about sharing things. Share one of your fears to set an example if you wish.

[Philemon]

Originally Posted by CuriousSeeker

I got some experience getting women to share their fears and traumas which I will try to share.

As many suggest here, giving her space is a step in the right direction. And you might need it as well, in order to not burn out your love for her trying to bang your head against her wall.

Getting women to share is all about trust. When she feels connected to you, that she can trust you to not judge or spread the information she gave you, then she will start sharing. Most people do want to share their fears and to feel accepted and loved even afterwards. One of their biggest fear about sharing is having someone reject them or judge them. Avoid that.

Usually getting a woman into sharing mode takes a fair bit of small talk, humor is a big help, share little things about each other and build the conversation around that. Find something in your lives you share, something she likes to talk about. Build on that. Use humour.

Often the subject will gradually ease into her traumas and fears, but it will feel natural to her. Don't push it, let her open up without forcing her. Good listening is often just about affirming what she just said, i.e. repeating back what she said in your own words so that she see you understood her. Often such a feedback cycle will lead her to share more. Avoid judgemental or giving your opinion on her fears.

At some point she might be shutting down, she might need more time to be more intimate about more details. At that point I would usually not push her, but just thank her for sharing, show your appreciation for that she can trust you enough to open up. Then gently try to change the subject.
When she feels open again you will naturally move the conversation back into the place where she can share.

You can often, using your social intelligence, gently nudge the topic over to her fears, but it should be natural given the conversation, and not intrusive.
Be gentle with it and carefully consider her response to it to see if she seems open to share more. Back out if she hesitates.

Often just stating a fact about the situation without judging can also help them to open up. If she goes silent, just say something like .. it's hard for you to put words on your feelings, and let her pick up on that.
Other things that might help is just stating that intimacy is about sharing things. Share one of your fears to set an example if you wish.

These are good thoughts to reinforce. Thanks

[RonSouther]

The point isn't in trying to diagnose her as bipolar or ADHD but to see that perhaps she's deeply confused because of the way society may have treated her, leading to a negative self image and quirky behavior, and then to see that society ain't exactly mentally healthy, and to see her intelligence, creativity, authenticity and so on, that she can move from confusion to clarity.

To me the erratic behavior is solely out of confusion. To get the big picture brings clarity.

In other words, I doubt she loves herself and that makes it impossible to love another.