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Old 05-17-2007, 03:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy Love hurts!

Edit: I sound a little off my rocker in this first post, but I am okay now! Thanks for everyone's help.

Hello again everyone. By now you are probably quite tired of my relationship woes, but I am in need of some more advice. I am really torn on what to do here.

My relationship of about a year ended about a month and a half ago. We kept in touch a little, mostly just basic conversations. Recently he has begun to tell me that he misses me, he still loves me and doesn't want to be without me. We've talked and he said he really wants to try to work things out. Normally when I wanted to talk about things he would shut down, but this time we spent a good deal of time talking about various things that went wrong. He has a lot of anger about things going on in his life and I have a fear that he is not being honest with me. He says he has nothing to bring to the relationship (no car, doesn't have his own place, etc) The thing is, when I talk to him he tells me that there is not and has not been anyone else. His bother told me that he did cheat on me and is still talking to one girl, but from his mom I hear that the brother has ulterior motives because he likes me. This is tearing me up. I don't know who or what to believe. On top of it, I have my friends and family saying don't do it. When he's with me and we talk I feel like I see another side of him, that he opens up to me more than with anyone else, but maybe it's just a game he's playing.

I want to be with him because I love him.
He says he wants to be with me and realized he missed me too much to be apart.
He says he wants to try to work things out.
I don't know if I can start over and just trust him (like last night he was supposed to call me but didn't, and even though he told me that he might not be able to because he doesn't have a phone and the friend who he's staying with had his phone cut off, I still started thinking, is he with someone else. I think that he could go across the street to a pay phone if he really wanted to talk to me, but I also know he works late).
I feel stupid for getting back together with him if he's cheated on me or is still seeing someone else, but at the same time, if he's really sincere I want to make it work too.

Reading Byron Katie's book I Need Your Love - Is That True? I find myself wanting to take his words at face value. I can see turnarounds of my thoughts like "He's not committed" becoming "I'm not committed " (being so torn and not giving fully to trying). Or "He doesn't love me" to "He does love me" (even when he doesn't do exactly what I want).

I am so scared to make the wrong choice. My heart is in shreads and my stomach in knots. If anyone can help, please do. I am scared and unsure with him and sad and lonely without him.

Last edited by {aspiring_to_clarity}; 05-18-2007 at 10:46 PM. Reason: To let you guys know I'm not a complete loon.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This is just my opinion but, listen to your friends and family. I think that your heart has a bias towards renewing the relationship even though it may not be good for you. Your friends and family see things that you don't because they are "outsiders" with a different view than you, who is immersed in this situation. It is good to get all views before making a decision.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think that it would be a good idea for you to step back and take time for yourself. Many of the things you mention don't add up and that's probably why you are hesitant.

Your gut is probably telling you everything is not what it seems. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking some time to figure things out and see how everything unfolds. If you act too soon or make any desperate moves you will pay for it in the end.

You must always Be True To Yourself. If you are, you will never go wrong.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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First of all, I want to let you know that "Everything happens for a reason". I have been in your state once and thought its the end of the world...had even comtemplated suicide.... When I turn back and look at those days now, I could see why that happend to me and everything I learnt from it that made me a stronger and better individual. So its alright to feel pain, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. So hang in there.

I havent read your previous posts and so I apologize if my assumptions are wrong. From this post I assume that your boyfriend cheated on you.

If someone cheated on you, then I would day dump him no matter what. I am not being rude here. There are a lot of reasons why somebody would cheat on someone and whatever that reason is, it is rooted in the subconscious. Until unless there is raise in his level of consciousness, there is always a chance that he will go back to his old ways.

What I mean is that getting back, working things out are all solutions for preventing the consequences. In your case the consequences are pain, heart break etc. But what about the cause. Why did this happen in the frist place?? Has he told you clearly why he cheated on you? Whatever caused him to cheat on you is his ego or whatever you want to call it.

Right now you see a different side of him because there is no ego. It doesnt mean the ego is gone but is hiding. Who knows that once you both come back to comfortable situations, the ego wont come back again. What I am talking about is similar to what happens to alcoholics or other addicts who start some rehab programs but loose track after a few months.

I would say let it go and move on. I am sorry if I am being rude, but I wanted to make my point clear.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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my advice is to stop. all. contact.

he says he cant live without you, and yet cant get it together to give you a call when he says he will?

this is behavior that shouldnt be tolerated from *any* prospective friend or lover, let ALONE one who is supposedly trying to win you back. i mean, when i have done somebody a wrong and i want them to trust me again, i make MORE effort, not LESS.

to me, it signals a lack of commitment, and possibly a lack of maturity. he just feels bad, and the easiest thing to do to feel better is to glom on to you again. don't allow it.

why did he break up with you in the first place? do you think the issues that caused the break up have been resolved? my guess is, in 6 weeks or so, they have not.

gather up your strength, tell him calmly to lose your number, and try to turn your eyes to something else.

it sucks big donkey balls, yes, and it hurts like a mother************er, but it only hurts for a little while and then you are free!

... as opposed to the hurt continuing on daily for god knows how long until the same problem that broke you up before rears its head, and you break up again, and the whole cycle begins anew.

just step out of it. you can do it.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thank you everyone for what you are saying. It's painful to hear, I don't want to listen. But there is a part of me that knows you are all right. I just love him so much that it's clouding my better judgement. And to top it off he's got that thing going where you just want to help him and save him and make everything better...what is that thing?

@Lychee - You hit the nail on the head. My heart wants this even though I can see it is probably inviting more heartache. It hurts to be without him, sure, but it also hurts to be with him. I don't know which is worse right now.

@ZHereford - I read your article and it showed me something. I am a strong person and to be true to that I have to stand up for what I want in a relationship. I am still compromising to be with him. He says he's not ready to commit, just wants to call it "trying to work it out," but I do want commitment. What could it hurt to step back and take this much more slowly? If we are supposed to be together a little time apart won't make that impossible, and if we aren't a little time apart would make it apparent?

@absvan - The problem I have is that all the cheating stuff is speculation, possibly lies coming from everyone involved. I think in my heart I feel it to be true, but want so badly for it not to be that I am questioning it. You are right that maybe right now him wanting to get back with me is supressing the parts of ego that will just rear their ugly heads again when we get too comfortable.

@madgeylou - You're right. I think I need to re-read He's Just Not That Into You. I mean if someone loves you and wants you so badly can't they make a little effort? I thought maybe I was just expecting too much too soon (and taking so much consideration for the "phone problems" he says might make it hard to call). The problem is that I want to believe him so badly that I lose all sense of reality.

Please keep it coming people. I think the next time he calls I will tell him that I do need a commitment. I cannot do a "let's just see what happens" thing. And not to call me anymore unless he's serious as a heart attack and prepared to do the work. I feel like I lose my strength in his presence. And that's a supremely awful feeling, especially since I love him so much and just want him to see me as special.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity} View Post
What could it hurt to step back and take this much more slowly? If we are supposed to be together a little time apart won't make that impossible, and if we aren't a little time apart would make it apparent?
{aspiring_to_clarity} - You've absolutely got it! Sometimes it takes our heart a while to catch up with what we intellectually know and understand.

Hang in there! You know what the right thing to do is. You can't help or save anyone else until you can help yourself.

Way to go!
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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why did he break up with you in the first place? do you think the issues that caused the break up have been resolved? my guess is, in 6 weeks or so, they have not.
Basically because I was too controlling and he was angry at me for always nagging him. I didn't want him talking to other girls and I wanted him to call me when he was going to be home late (not like 30 minutes, I am talking hours). He wanted to be with me (he loves me of course), but wanted to spend most of his time with his friends and have "no rules."

I just wanted to address this because we talked about it. I said I still want the same things I wanted before and he basically said he did too (they are different things). But, he misses me too much not to try. I said that by ignoring the things that broke us up before they will just come back. He said he didn't know how to fix it he just couldn't be without me. I think that actually both of us see that we are not in the same place, that it can't work, but we both want to be together so we are pretending we can do it. I just have to be the one to make a stand. I can see where we are headed, on again, off again forever until eternity unless one of us suddenly had a change of heart. One of us would have to give up what we truly want to really make it happen and of course neither of us is willing to do that. When did my life become drama central?!

And, I don't think he really wants to work on these things, he just wants me back. Possibly it's a comfort level thing. Or the fact we did have a lot of fun togther. He told me that I took such great care of him. Also, I think that maybe whoever else he may have been talking to didn't work out. Who knows? Too much speculation is what got me here to begin with. I am going out with some friends tonight to shake it off. I'll check in with you beautiful people tomorrow. Thanks for not pointing and laughing at the crazy girl (at least not where I can see you ).
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What parts about him do you love? How does he make you feel? What's special about him? Does he do anything that half the male population couldn't do as well?

I would try to look for all the evidence I could find to see if things changed. I would seriously doubt they changed. Most likely he just realised that his life sucked when you weren't there to fill the incompleteness he felt in himself. If he was feeling complete, he wouldn't needed to stray. He is in a catch 22 because he's not going to feel complete with you and he's not going to feel complete without you.

At some point in time, he's going to have to fix himself. If he doesn't, he will always feel a void with you and he'll try to fill it with another woman at some point in time.

Will you ever be able to completely trust him? Can you get rid of that lingering doubt about his fidelity or can you accept that part of him? If you can't, then leave now and find a man who can give you what he was giving you but more.

----------------
That's the small problem you have to deal with.
----------------

The big problem is that you are also incomplete. You are almost willing to sacrifice the happiness you deserve, because he fills a part of you that is empty. If you were complete, you wouldn't feel drawn into a relationship that is significantly more likely to cause you pain than it is to make you truly happy. I would take a long look at what about him makes you feel happy and then try to find other ways of filling those voids. You can still be friends with him, but for now, I think you need to just take a break and see where everything lies. During this time, fix yourself and make yourself happy when you are unhappy and see if he does the same.

Those are my thoughts, take them as you want.

I hope you find happiness out of this situation.
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yes, love hurts. But many other things hurt too.
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What parts about him do you love? How does he make you feel? What's special about him? Does he do anything that half the male population couldn't do as well?

I would try to look for all the evidence I could find to see if things changed. I would seriously doubt they changed. Most likely he just realised that his life sucked when you weren't there to fill the incompleteness he felt in himself. If he was feeling complete, he wouldn't needed to stray. He is in a catch 22 because he's not going to feel complete with you and he's not going to feel complete without you.

At some point in time, he's going to have to fix himself. If he doesn't, he will always feel a void with you and he'll try to fill it with another woman at some point in time.

Will you ever be able to completely trust him? Can you get rid of that lingering doubt about his fidelity or can you accept that part of him? If you can't, then leave now and find a man who can give you what he was giving you but more.

----------------
That's the small problem you have to deal with.
----------------

The big problem is that you are also incomplete. You are almost willing to sacrifice the happiness you deserve, because he fills a part of you that is empty. If you were complete, you wouldn't feel drawn into a relationship that is significantly more likely to cause you pain than it is to make you truly happy. I would take a long look at what about him makes you feel happy and then try to find other ways of filling those voids. You can still be friends with him, but for now, I think you need to just take a break and see where everything lies. During this time, fix yourself and make yourself happy when you are unhappy and see if he does the same.

Those are my thoughts, take them as you want.

I hope you find happiness out of this situation.
I think you have brought up a good point. We are both trying to get something from the other person that should come from inside. As much as I wish we could be together, we are not capable of being in a healthy relationship the way things stand now. There's nothing we can give eachother to make the pain and emptiness go away because it comes from within.

He is my first love.That in and of itself makes it hard to let go. There was a time when we were planning the future. He had goals that he was working towards and they fell through. I think it really took something out of him. Since that time things have just gone downhill. I can see a light in him that is just begging to come out, but it's clouded by his poor self image and his inability to let go of the past (yes, we do share some of the same issues). I want to help him so badly that I was willing to get back together with him knowing it would only cause pain...not just for me but for him as well. And I also wanted the comfort of being with someone I love whose arms feel right around me.

I don't trust him even now as I let myself be drawn back into a "relationship." That is no way to be with another person. If he had admitted and apologized I think we could get past it, but he still maintains that he never did anything. I know he's not being truthful with me. Maybe he thinks he's protecting me, maybe he doesn't want me to think less of him or maybe he's just playing me. I have no certainty when it comes to this issue.

I've toned down the crazy since yesterday (I am more than a little embarrased at how psycho I was being). I am going to tell him that I cannot do this. I cannot be in a "let's see what happens" type of relationship. He said himself he didn't know how to fix anything, he just didn't want to be without me. I will tell him that we both have to work on becoming complete if we ever want to have a chance of making a real go. I do want to be his friend, but I am not sure he will want that. Time will tell.

Thank you for your post. It really meant a lot to me and clarified some things that were knocking around in my brain. Every word was right on target.

Now for the hard part.

Last edited by {aspiring_to_clarity}; 05-21-2007 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Now for the hard part.
good luck, aspiring.

for what it's worth, my ex wanted to be friends with me really badly. i couldnt do it though -- just seeing him brought back so much crushing sadness. staying away from him has proved the best course of action for me.

i only say this because, if you're not willing or able to be his friend right now, that's okay. don't feel bad about it, and don't force anything. you have to take care of you first. maybe in a few months, if/when things settle down, friendship might be an option. but in my experience trying to go straight from lovers down to friends doesnt typically work that well ...
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah, madgeylou. That's kind of how this happened. We kept in touch and one day he asked if he could come over to talk because he missed me so much...

I really want to be with him, but it's not good for me right now with all the uncertainty. He also needs to do a lot of things on his own to see that he can stand on his own two feet. I think we can stay friends because we were friends before this. I want to be there for him, but after I tell him I cannot "try to work things out" right now knowing him he will be the one to cut off contact. At least for a while and that's okay. I've found it is really hard being around someone you've been intimate with, particularly if you are both still attracted to eachother and want to be together. When temptation comes up it's hard to think about all the reasons separation is best. Better to avoid those situations for the time being.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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There should be an emoticon for giving a hug.

{aspiring_to_clarity}, **hug**

I wish the best for you.
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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There should be an emoticon for giving a hug.
There you go... and sorry for the hijack...



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Old 05-21-2007, 04:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for the hugs.

This weekend was a little tough. It's all the same old song and dance. It's like an endless loop. And I end up feeling drained from our interaction when what I really want is to be able to just enjoy seeing the person I've spent the last year of my life loving. I wish it didn't have to be this way. I am trying to change some things in myself in hopes that it will open up a new understanding between us regardless of what the status of our realtionship is. I wish there was some way to really make him understand my feelings and intentions toward him. And in turn for me to understand his. I think if I had one wish (with no option for world peace, etc.) it would be that lying and emotional "games" would be impossible...that everyone would just be honest with eachother and take it from there. We would never have to wonder how someone really feels about us or whether their intentions toward us are honorable or not. That's the hardest part of it all for me, wondering if any of what he's telling me is true or if it's all a game (those close to me say I definitely analyse things way too much). But really, it doesn't matter.
The relationship is not beneficial for me as it stands now. And I don't really think it is for him either. So I guess regardless of how I feel it hurts me to lose him or how he percieves me as hurting him by ending it, it's what has to be done. I know we can both grow from this experience. I just wish I didn't feel so responsible for his feelings (which I know I am not) or want him to be responsible for mine (which I know he is not).

Thanks everyone for all your help. I could definitely use any more wisdom you might have to share.

Last edited by {aspiring_to_clarity}; 05-21-2007 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The relationship is not beneficial for me as it stands now. And I don't really think it is for him either. So I guess regardless of how I feel it hurts me to lose him or how he percieves me as hurting him by ending it, it's what has to be done. I know we can both grow from this experience.
Aspiring_to_clarity this is a big step for you to realize.

Yes, it does hurt when relationships don't work out the way we want them to, but as you point out, you can both learn from this. You can learn what you want from a relationship and what doesn't work for you. As humans it's our experiences that teach us these lessons.

We all go through this in life in varying degrees. The more you respect and honor yourself, the less painful it is because in your heart you understand what's right for your life.

It would hurt even more if you let it go on and on and don't deal with the truth. You have to let go of what you know doesn't work.

All the best to you.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The thing that's hard is knowing how he will react...as in not well. This has been the problem so far. I will try to tell him that we need to end it, and he will go into sad mode telling me all the things I really want to hear...knowing I don't ever want to hurt him. That's why I am afraid to even have the conversation. I plan out what I want to say and then when I actually talk to him he somehow gets me feeling like I might be making a mistake and I end up caving. I don't want to be a heartless B.... but I need to figure out how to be strong enough to really draw a line. Because it's not as if I don't want to be with him, I just don't think it's the right thing. I don't want to believe that everything he's saying to me is lies, but even if it is true to some extent we still can't seem to reach a point where we are both getting what we want from the relationship.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The thing that's hard is knowing how he will react...as in not well. This has been the problem so far.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) you are only responsible for your reactions and how you choose to deal with this. You can't be responsible, or even affect, how he chooses to react.

It sounds like he wants what he wants no matter how you feel about it.
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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That's true, Z. Like many other things, I know it, but have not found out how to minimize the emotional impact hurting someone I love has on me. I guess I have always been a people pleaser. I would almost stay with him just so as not to hurt him...and that's just ridiculous!

He does indeed want what he wants no matter how I feel about it. He wants to be with me even though I have told him I need a commitment and he has said he can't make one now. His motto is "be cool" meaning just go with the flow and see what happens. I tend to need a little more to bank on when it involves my heart. You know, I really do believe he loves me, but I don't think he understands that it means different things to different people. He can't get why I would be able to love him and not be with him.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well, let's take the opposite perspective.

You could always decide to have no expectations, go with the flow as he suggests, know that you won't get what you want from the relationship (maybe you want more than he's able to give) and see where that takes you.

Do you have anything to lose if you try this approach? If you have that many misgivings about not being with him, may you should try and see where this takes you. At the very least time will reveal what can or cannot work for the two of you.

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Old 05-21-2007, 11:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Aspiring, please read this:

How to Cope with a Narcissist
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Old 05-22-2007, 02:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Z, as much as I would like to be with him, I am beginning to see that I cannot cope with the mind games. I don't even know if he realizes what he's doing, but I am very hurt. For instance, the other night when I saw him, he wasn't the least bit happy to see me. It was as if I was bothering him. Lately, whenever I initiate contact, he acts this way. Then when he calls or wants to see me all the sweetness comes out. Even everyone around thinks I am so hard on him because they see only what he wants them to..."I tried, I told her how much I love her and miss her and all she does is get mad when I don't call her but I work so much..." They don't see how things really are.

Angela, I read that article. It's rather upsetting. Somehow I just can't wrap my head around it. Some things that stood out:

"every discordant note presages solitude, abandonment, and the resulting confrontation with his self."

"To cope with a narcissist is a full time, energy and emotion-draining job, which reduces people around the narcissist to insecure nervous wrecks."

I can testify to the nervous wreck part. Looking back I find that for most of our relationship I was just trying to keep him pacified. I tried everything I could think of, but I always misstepped and found myself on the receiving end of a lot of anger. When I was following along with what he wanted he was sweet and thoughtful and affectionate. But when I did something he didn't like, I got shut out or he would threaten to leave and if I didn't relent, leave. It's like the other day, he didn't want to talk and was angry about what I had said so he just went cold. When he misses me enough he will call and be nice again. I can't understand how I let myself go through this for so long. When I really think about it, I was constantly on edge, just waiting for those times when he would give me a little hope. Those would take me through to the next time...a vicious cycle. I think it got to the point where I was so deep in it that I thought it was normal, but I don't think there would be a couple left on earth if everyone went through this. I can see too that he has a great fear of abandonment. When I would show signs of having had enough, he would change in an instant. It's probably part of what kept me holding on so long. I can see that he's got major abandonment and rejection issues. I didn't want to add to it, but in the process I let myself get torn down. And I still love him. I don't want to see him suffer, but maybe it's the only way he will see that what he's doing isn't working, if that's even possible. I guess there's not much more to say. I don't have the energy to try anymore.

I'm going to read some more on that site. I don't know when I'll next have contact with him. He said he would call me last night, but of course he didn't.

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Old 05-22-2007, 03:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I also read the page about abuse. He never hit me (though he has physically abused others in the past which he told me about and said how ashamed he was and that he'd never do it again...I never felt afraid of him physically). But many of the other less obvious tactics he did employ. I feel so sad for him in a way. He won't ever have a truly satisfying real relationship as long as he continues like this. I see how his life has led up to this (abuse in the past, very dysfunctional relationships, abandonment, the whole 9 yards). I just wish I could get him to see that he has a choice now. All of those things were horrible, but now it's in your hands...is it possible to show him that? Forget whether he and I will ever be together romantically. I don't want to see someone I love live like this forever. It must be a painful, lonely existence. He seems to be looking for someone to fill the void. I did for a while, but when I didn't do everything exactly as he expected, he went elsewhere. How must it feel to continually look to others to fulfill you? They can only let you down because they cannot always be on their best behavior. It breaks my heart actually. I can see why he acts the way he does...why anything I do or say that he feels implies I don't love him is taken so hard and so out of context. Where do I go from here?

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Old 05-22-2007, 04:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Aspiring, you are not responsible for his satisfaction and fulfillment. You are pretending like you are, and that is distracting you from taking responsibility for your own satisfaction and fulfillment.

Did you see this remark in the article: "Narcissists are incorrigibly and notoriously difficult to change. Thus, trying to change them is doomed to failure." You keep trying, though, like Sisyphus, and of course he's going to encourage you to do so, as long as you let him. How long are you going to stay in that holding pattern? Wouldn't you be better served by taking dynamic action to generate a life for yourself that you love?

Aspiring, I worry that I will appear too brusque, but please know that I am pulling for you in this difficult time! You are powerful and loving, and you deserve to create peace, joy, and love for yourself.

DTMFA
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Yes. I did see that. And you are never too brusque. If anything I probably need more brusqueness (if that's a word) in my life. I am a very introspective person...in my head and my heart too much. I need to wake up to the reality of what's right in front of me instead of rehashing the past and trying to control the future. I base too many of my choices and actions on what others might think or how they will treat me. It's not a fun way to live.

I wrote you a PM too, but I'll respond here. I guess I am just saddened by the whole thing. It's in my nature to want to help people. I tend to feel no injustice in making great sacrifices of myself for the benefit of others. The problem here is there is nothing I can do. It makes me feel a little defeated. I know I can do plenty to help myself. I know I will come out okay. But more than that, I am sad to have to realize he didn't love me at all. I replay the good moments and the bad and knowing neither had anything to do with me is a very humbling thought...one that makes me a little angry and more than a little hurt.

I already have plenty of plans for my life. It was good before him and will continue to be that without him. I guess it's the mechanics of actually accepting what took place. There was of course nothing I could have done to make it unfold any differently.

I actually stumbled on a book in the bookstore the other day about narcissism. I read it right there in the aisle. Again, I don't see all of the attributes of a narcissist in him, but enough to realize what I am dealing with. The author repeated the story of the frog and the scorpion. If you recall, the scorpion asked the frog to carry him across some body of water to safety. The frog replied, "you will sting me." The scorpion said that was nonsense because they would both drown. So the frog agreed. Halfway across the scorpion stung the frog and the frog asked why. The scorpion replied "it's in my nature." This probably isn't very profound to anyone but me right now, but I have always loved frogs. And right after we broke up I had several dreams with my ex in them and each had a black scorpion. So, when I read that I almost dropped the book. All of that to say, he did what it was in his nature to do. Questioning or trying to understand it isn't doing me any good and neither will trying to change it.

I am just writing down all my thoughts here so I am sorry if they are all over the place. It really does help me to work through things with all of you. Thanks so much, from my heart.

PS Don't laugh, but what does DTMFA mean?
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:22 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity} View Post
what does DTMFA mean?
Google it. I'm far too much of a lady to use such foul language.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Ha, Ha, Ha!!! Got it!

And I am so sorry to have implied you would speak in such a way...
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Well Aspiring, given all the mind games, lack of trust, lack of character (on his part), I wonder what else there is to do but move on.

I read the article on narcissism that Angela pointed out and it's excellent. It seems that the narcissist doesn't want help or to improve, he/she just wants to control others. That should seal it for you.

All the best.
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks, Z (I hope you don't mind me calling you Z...as I've been doing so for a while).

I think I have known for a while what I need to do. It's simply hard letting go of love even when it doesn't do anything to uplift you. For me, I feel bad giving up on him, on the life we created and on the future we envisioned despite the fact that the day to day was/is draining and difficult and perplexing. But if that article is to be believed (and so much rang true in it, that I feel it must) there is no way to have the kind of relationship I am looking for with him. I feel badly, for him and for the end of what I thought we shared, but the only thing to do now is move on. I will gladly continue as his friend if he even wants that. The dynamics of a friendship are so different to me than that of a romantic relationship. There are a great deal of things that while I may not condone them (infidelity) in a friend, they don't have the same impact on me personally as in a romantic relationship. If that makes any sense at all...

Thanks for all your help. It means a great deal to me. I wish you the best as well.
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