20 & Involuntarily Celibate
 

Hey everybody, so for those of you who didn't read or don't remember my previous thread, here's the (very) short version:

I'm turning twenty years old next month. I've never had sex, kissed a girl, been on a date, or even held hands with a girl.

Its incredibly depressing. I was interested in girls from a very early age. It was never a matter of not being interested. Before I go any further into this, I'd like to tell you all a little bit about myself. For starters, my personality type is ENTJ. I am considered by those who know me to be very intelligent and highly intellectual. The lowest I've ever tested in any part of a standardized test is the 95th percentile. I am an excellent speaker, and am very comfortable in front of large groups. I have been a little overweight my whole life (207lbs, 5"10", waist size 36). People tell me they think I'm a really nice guy, and as a rule they enjoy being around me. Also, I come from (some) money; I'm not super-rich but my parents are worth a bit more than two million currently (age 50). I'm Jewish, though I'm about as non-religious as people can be, and am perfectly happy making jokes about it with my friends.

My mom and dad were, I think its fair to say, somewhat strict when I was growing up. My dad is a very straight shooter, and would not tolerate mischief or misbehavior. Not that this was an issue for me. I've never been in trouble my whole life. No detentions, no calls home from the office, not even a speeding ticket. My dad used to tell me the same thing every day as I left the house on my way to the bus stop with my brother: "have fun and be confident". Its quite ironic, because I can honestly say that I don't know what its like to have fun, or how it feels to be confident. I cant remember the last time I was legitimately happy, and its been that way since long before even my Bar Mitzvah.

The first time I asked a girl to dance, I was thirteen. We were at a week long sleep-away summer camp. I figured since nobody there knew me very well, it wouldn't be a big deal to get rejected. She said no, and when I walked away I heard her laughing at me with her friends. I waited two years after that before trying again, this time when my class was on a 2 day trip to D.C. I asked the second girl at a dance my school held for us while we were down there. She said yes! Which is great, right? Well, it would've been, if she didn't say that she was just going to take a break for a while, and we'd dance later. She never came back, nor did she ever intend to. I brought it up a while later and jokingly told her she "owed me a dance", to which she laughed and agreed. The next dance I went to was a few months later, I saw her across the room (keep in mind that I don't dance, I've never felt comfortable doing it, so I was one of the losers who stays outside of the dance hall or stands on the outskirts of it. I've never danced in my entire life, I just don't have that innate "goofiness" in me that others seem to) and when a slow song came on I started to go over to where she was, but before I got there she started dancing with somebody else, so I stopped and went back. The next slow song I went over, but before I got to where she had been, she had moved to the other side. The next thing I knew, my best friend Alex came over and whispered in my ear that one of her friends had asked him to ask me to stop "following" the girl around the dance. I was equal parts mortified, upset, and enraged, and I left immediately. I cried myself to sleep that night, and I never went to another dance.

Throughout this time in my life, my parents had only an inkling of how bad things really were for me. My dad was a ladies man growing up, and was very popular in general. He would ask me most nights at dinner (we ate dinner together as a family every night) if there were "any girls at school". I didn't have the heart to tell him, so I would usually either ignore him or say something jokingly such as "like I'd tell you". He eventually put some of the pieces together, though he misunderstood the problem and thought that I just didn't have must interest in chasing girls. My dad would often make one way bets with my brother or I (score a goal in a hockey game and he'd pay $50 per). One night when I was fifteen he offered me $100 if I went out with a girl. Eventually he turned it into $500 and he'd pay for the date. Finally, as a senior in high school it became "if you bring home a girl I'll give you the Jaguar (Jaguar XKR Supercharged Convertible). Despite these offers, I never did (and believe me, I liked that car).

When I got to college, I had hoped that things would change, but alas, they did not. I did, at the behest of my father, join a fraternity. He felt it would be a good way to force me into social situations and parties, and I agreed. So now, despite being a full-fledged brother in whats considered the top fraternity on campus for over a year, I've never even so much as danced with a girl at one of our parties (or ever). My fraternity brothers, despite not fully comprehending how deep this problem is, have practically begged me to go dance with some girls on the dance floor.

I have never, not in my whole life, felt "loose" or "silly" or whatever you'd call it (you probably know what I mean). I physically can't bring myself to do it. Here's an example: We throw a lot of parties, some of which are whats known as "socials". Socials are when brothers are assigned big sisters (sisters in the sorority we're having the social with) and it is their job to basically get us drunk and make sure we have a good time. Now, I was going to avoid the whole dancing part of the party all together, planning to just stay by the pong tables all night, but at one point a pledgemaster (this was back when I was pledging) came over and told me he wanted all the pledges to ask their bigs to dance with them. I did, and she said yes. But when we got out onto the floor, it was...well...brutal. I really just couldn't do anything that would even resemble dancing. She really tried to get me to dance, she brought over two drinks which were equivalent to four beers and had me down them, hoping it'd loosen me up. It didn't, at all. Then she took my hands and tried to sort of teach me how to move them when dancing. I just couldn't do it, they might as well have been limp noodles because the second she let go they went straight back down. I honestly felt bad. At one point she told me she 'wasn't looking for a relationship or anything serious and just wanted to have some fun dancing with me', because she had inferred that I was expressing a disinterest in her or that I thought she was coming on to me or something.

When it comes to things like parties, I am extremely uncomfortable, and am invariably subjected to a constant barrage of people asking me things such as "are you having fun", "are you ok" etc. I just never really learned how to act in this type of situation. I never went to a single party before college. I had some "friends" that I would talk to at school and be friendly to, but Alex was really my only true friend. He was very much my polar opposite. Where I was reserved, he was exceptionally outgoing. He would go to all the parties, drink, smoke marijuana, dance with girls. He'd had sex before he was sixteen. Right now, he's relocated to Miami, where he's more popular with the ladies than ever. In contrast, I'm nineteen, and have never even held a girls hand. He's told me countless times that its all in my head, that I'm reasonably good-looking and just need to get out there, but I can't. I've never been able to.

The worst part is, my inability to have a relationship with a girl is causing a myriad of problems outside of my "lovelife" (or lack thereof). I can't spend more than thirty minutes without thinking about the fact that I'm alone and seemingly always will be. It distracts me from a lot of things I should be doing instead. Heck, its 5:00am here at the time of this writing, and despite the fact that I have a macroeconomics final at 2:00pm I'm here writing this. I feel depressed all day long, every day. I pretend to be happy for the sake of those close to me, and they have no idea what kind of emotional toll all of this has taken on me. I've even (on a purely theoretical level) contemplated suicide. Frankly, there's only two reasons I haven't seriously considered it (and never will). The first is the dwindling hope that someday things will get better for me. The second is that I don't believe that there is an afterlife, and the only thing I can think of worse than continuing to exist this way is ceasing to exist at all. But make no mistake, I have a hard time justifying getting out of bed each day, because the last 7,300 times I've done it, it hasn't been worth it.

At this point I've essentially given up. I don't believe that I will ever have any type of relationship for any duration with a girl. Even though they all love me to death, I feel like I've broken my parent's hearts, let down my little brother as a role model, and most of all let down myself as a person. I've lived through most of my youth without enjoying a second of it. I'm so behind in terms of life experiences that it seems virtually impossible to catch up or even begin on the path to catching up. I feel bitter towards the world and everybody in it. I'm not sure what I'm looking for here in the way of replies. Advice, I suppose, though frankly I don't expect it will do me much good at this point.

Dancing is something that you can learn in a fairly straightforward way. You take dancing classes.

If you don't have a girl who wants to take the class with you, you simply call local dance schools and ask whether you can come without a partner.
Often they have more girls than guys and are happy to welcome you.

I would recommend some non standardized pair dance like Salsa but Standard/Latin has also it's advantages.

You have a lot to be proud of yourself. Don't worry, you're not screwed. Have some faith in yourself. The more power you give to that pain the more it will hurt.

How strange you Americans are.

Sex is an exam or dental check-up to you. When you reach a certain age and haven't passed the "test", you get all worried and nervous.

It sounds like you're really forcing yourself to do stuff you don't like doing because you're thinking that's the only way you can get together with girls. Parties and dancing. Maybe you need to approach this in a quieter way.

Also, I think what your dad did with the Jaguar offer was really detrimental. It leaves you thinking, "Geez, I was offered a Jaguar and even then I couldn't get a girl to come home with me!" When maybe you simply weren't emotionally ready.

What do you like doing? What can you see yourself doing on a date with a girl that would be fun? It doesn't have to be parties and dancing. :)

I was going to add that the courtship rituals of the Americans are rather limited in range - dancing and parties.

Birds are more imaginative. Song, plumage, dance, aerobatics, nest construction ....

Oh, ALG, we are not limited in courtship rituals at all ;)

The thing is, if you don't like parties and dancing all that much, but you're trying to meet girls through parties and dancing, you're going to wind up meeting girls who like parties and dancing!

It really does seem that you are more worried about using women and dating as a way to prove yourself to family, your frat, society at large , and above all to yourself. Try to approach it more from an angle of it being something you want to do just because you want to, not you want to because________, or you want to so________. It sounds like you are in a world where you are surrounded by people who treat women as objects and you don't completely* think of them that way so you are confused by the mixed messages you feel you are receiving from society vs. from yourself. As you go through life over the coming weeks and months, try to just realize when you get a clear signal from yourself of what it is exactly that you want, free of the pressure of outside influence. Recognize that I'm not saying you have to be free of outside influence for this to happen, because that influence is not likely to go away any time soon or....well, ever. But just to realize what it is that you want, not what you want in order to appear a certain way to others or to live up to their standards for you. Start the process of learning to be your own person and living for yourself.

*I say completely because I believe your heart is in the right place, and the thing I think you are doing that I'm about to share comes from a place of not realizing. However when you mention things like never getting in trouble, coming from money, etc. Those things don't mean anything. It's like there is an unconscious dialogue in your head telling you that because you have money,and never made any trouble, that women should just like you no matter what. It is like a subtle attempt at exchanging money and/or good behavior for approval, but women are people and they respond to people, not money, or obligatory good behavior. (note I'm not suggesting being good is bad, just that you can't expect people to love just because you are good, or rich, or a hard worker, or any number of other things that people often use as a cover up for the parts of them selves they don't like, or fill a void they feel within.)

And finally I'm going to suggest seeing a competent therapist/counselor of some kind could be a good idea for you. Maybe someone who specifically knows how to root out and correct faulty thinking and not just someone who wants to talk things out ad nauseum and blame it all on your childhood but someone with a results oriented approach. Be sure and screen for that if/when you pursue that option.

Good luck.

Post #2,000! :D

This is hilarious. And also a very messed up part of American culture.
Nuh-uh! Long, drawn out philosophical conversations are the best courtship rituals ever.

Hey There Derek..

It's an awful lot of pressure you're placing on yourself. Based on what you wrote, there is nothing 'wrong' with you.

I think the problem lies in the strategy.. It seems you're putting too much focus on the typical way or the 'right way' to meet and interact with women. It's not about dancing nor partying nor joining a frat, but rather focus on Connecting with women.

That's right.. connect with them. I'm assuming you're still in a college setting which is perfect to meet all types of women. Here are some suggestions to build a connection:
- Start conversing with women without the intent of trying to date them, it'll take the pressure off of getting a certain result

- In conversation, try your best to understand the women you talk to.. don't prepare anything to say.. just listen to the things she says and build on the conversation from there

- What activities or areas are you passionate about.. I'm sure there are ton of clubs or organizations you can join that are more aligned with what you are interested in.. rather than trying to force yourself into situations that are putting pressure on you..

- Accept yourself and where you are at.. be fully comfortable for who you are.. and let curiosity guide you. Meaning if you know of a guy or someone perhaps in your frat who is very comfortable with women.. simply ask him how he got to be that way.. I'm sure he's faced his own issues with interacting with women.. and somehow got better at it..

- I know this is easier said than done.. but just start to feel confident.. if you don't feel good about your physical attributes, then spend some time going to the gym (which is probably free as a student on campus).. I know that certainly helped to boost my own confidence and belief in myself

- Lastly, understand that you have the power to be an amazing person with women. At the end of the day Women are really looking for genuine guys who embrace their masculinity and can connect with them... You can do this.. just have for yourself milestones each day.. Day one (Have a 10 sec conversation with a woman), Day two (30 sec) Day three (have her share something she's passionate about)..etc.. keep working at it.. bit by bit

I really hope these help.. be patient and focus on connecting rather than achieving any particular result.. and you'll find yourself shift into the person you'd like to be.. :-)

The solution to your problems with girls is very straightforward.

The common belief that almost all love-shy people have is that life owes them something, that they deserve a hot girl without making any effort.
Well, life owes you nothing.

If you want a girlfriend, you have to go up to a girl and ask her to be your girlfriend. As simple as that. Now, you don't ask them literally, you ask her to hang out or go have a coffee together.

I suggest, instead of committing suicide, you set a goal of approaching a hundred girls with the goal of getting rejected. Chances are you'll get laid like a rock star before you even get to 50.

It is very important that you do not expect success. By reframing a goal as getting rejected you will destroy any mental barriers to approaching.

You sound like a fat person who never tried exercising, or a fat person who tried running once and seeing how difficult it is started contemplating suicide, while the solution is to expect to suck at first and build up endurance over a period of time.



The only thing preventing you from being successful with girls are your mental-emotional blocks.

ROFL, Yeah American social conditioning is wierd.

I never could let go in dancing like you're saying. Parties aren't my thing. For me they are too superficial and my joy is to go deep. If I'm not lost in the environment of the party, how can I get lost in dancing?

I'm too aware of what's going on.

I read this the other day....there's another side to this which is that you sound like you were raised to follow the rules, not of your heart but of your culture....

I like a lot of this advice. It stood out to me that it is important to focus on forming friendships with women first and foremost and feeling comfortable.

Then again, I opened this thread because the word celibate sparked me. :) I have been voluntarily practicing celibacy for the past 3, almost 4, years after I realized that I had been harming myself with the sexual choices that I had been making (and yes, they happened mainly in college, and I remember the onslaught of booze, drugs, and warped ideas about sex all assaulting my naive 18-year-old self as soon as I set foot on campus).

I have benefitted greatly from NOT having sex, even though at times it can feel odd because it is not mainstream. But that choice let me learn more about myself, uncover the reasons I chose unhealthy connections and heal those aspects, and grow spiritually, find confidence, and feel more balanced. I have experienced many powerful things because of this choice, though it has not always been easy or seemed fun. I know in my heart, however, that it is wisdom for me to follow this path until I meet the right partner.

And since I have not been as driven by my sexuality, I've had time to look deeply and discern what I want in that right partner and what I expect from a sexual encounter. It turns out I want deep connection, friendship, potential family, integrity, spiritual power, true love, compatibility, support, dependability, freedom, playfulness, and more....

None of which I could find after one drunken night at a club, but which could develop over the course of a solid friendship. And when it happens, I absolutely know it will be well worth the wait and be truly meaningful.

Of course, you may want something completely different, and that is great. I feel it is all about discovering what brings you joy and what your heart truly desires from the beautiful opportunity that sex offers to us.

I do work a lot with yoga and meditation type things, so I am also interested in the energetic aspects of our sexuality. Many yogis transform their sexual energy to reach deeper states of awareness and internal bliss. The truth is that the external sexual partner is a representation of the divine union that can occur within each of us. So, we can experience ourselves and the world, wherever we are, as orgasmic bliss, even with no partner in sight. And sex with a partner can go beyond procreation and reach a space of intimacy and soul-level passion.

But of course, there are great gifts in touching, stroking, and sharing intimate space with another person who you care deeply about, too.

Still, I practice discerenment because I have uncovered more information about how powerful our sexual energy truly is, and the kind of energetic connections we form when we have sex with others. The advice that resonates with me is to make sure that you want to truly imbibe the essence of all the other person is before you have sex, because that is what happens as your energy fields merge. This is one reason it is so painful when we part from past lovers, because we have become deeply integrated through our connection. I have even experienced this when making out with someone -- I felt drunk and hungover afterwards, even though I had not been drinking... Turns out he had, and I'd taken it on during that energetic exchange!

So, a slightly different perspective -- thanks for the opportunity for me to review that part of my path!

Jessica

What are you looking for: a relationship or casual sex?

What type of girl are you looking for? You may be too picky. If you're overweight why can't they be?

Why not try to meet girls over the internet?

Thanks for all of the replies so far guys.


Brutha: The “knowing” how to dance thing is not very important for me, as I’ve never had any interest in dancing for dancing’s sake. It’s more the fact that 1) I can’t bring myself to “let loose” as everybody else seems to do, and 2) the fact that I was unable to find a girl who wanted (or at least didn’t mind) dancing with me. Still, I may take those lessons you’re recommending at some point, we’ll see.

Artelus: Thanks, but the thing is that this one thing puts a big damper on everything else. Despite my intelligence I don’t do nearly in well in school as I’m capable of, as I can never focus; my mind invariably focusing on this issue of mine rather than on fully grasping Keynesian economic theory.

Acting Like Godot: I am not really speaking specifically about sex here, though I can see how the title might cause you to arrive at that conclusion. Rather, I am merely depressed at my inability to form non-platonic relationships of any kind with women.

Moonrambler: What other approaches would you recommend? I’ve never had any luck meeting women anywhere outside of this environment (not that I have within it either)

BillyTheAdult: Believe me, I am absolutely, one hundred percent not using women as a way to prove myself to my family or anybody else. When I said that I was letting them down, what I meant was that they want me to be happy more than anything else, and they can sense that I’m not. My desire to have a relationship with a woman is a purely intrinsic one. As far as me talking about not getting in trouble, what I was trying to convey was that I don’t really feel like I even know how to let loose or goof off. The money thing I put in really only to give some background on myself and my living situation, and also because while I don’t consider having money as something that should “get me girls” it seemed worth mentioning that I’m not being written off as a result of a lack of it (not that I would be interested in the type of girl that would do that in the first place). I don’t think the world owes me something any more than I think I owe the world something.

Babuji: I didn’t really talk about this, but I am capable of talking to girls. I’m not going to sit here and tell you all that I have tons of close female friends or anything, but I do speak to girls during the day without the intent of dating them. In fact, I essentially only talk to girls without the intent of trying to date them, since they would have to be interested in me a way that they are not. As far as clubs or organizations, in high school I was in the Model UN, Mock Trial, and Philosophy clubs, as well as Chorus, A Capella and Jazz Choir, and met exactly 0 girls from all of them combined. I’m good friends with a lot of guys who are very good with women, and I’ve talked with a few of them about this issue. My friend Alex, who could at this point probably be considered a PUA based on his qualifications, has told me on multiple occasions that the only problem I have is that I’m not “getting out there” and “you need to be more confident, girls would love you”.

Tor: Life owes me nothing, correct you are. As far as asking girls out or things like that, my attempts thus far to follow that advice have yielded what at best I would term catastrophic results. Going back to the suicide thing, if you reread my initial post you’ll notice I only considered it on a purely theoretical level, much the same as I’ve contemplated what it would be like to fly like superman. If I expected success, I would be asking girls out right now rather than writing this post, and probably would not wait several years between rejections before trying again. As colorful as your conjecture about my physical appearance was, I must disagree. I am overweight, but also go to the gym three times a week at minimum and have lost thirteen pounds in the last three months alone. Regarding your statement that “The only thing preventing you from being successful with girls are your mental-emotional blocks”, I’m inclined to agree with you.

RonSouther: I’m not really sure where to begin replying to your post. I’m just going to ignore the Jewish thing completely and say this: My “culture” is not responsible for anything you’re attributing to it. I haven’t been to temple since my Bar Mitzvah seven years ago, and have never in my life cared even the slightest about religion or what some book written by long dead theologians says. Religion or culture plays no part in my life or decisions whatsoever.

CroMagna: I’m looking for any type of non-platonic relationship with a woman. As far as being picky goes, to be picky implies turning down opportunities. I’ve never had any to turn down. I would say my standards are pretty fair. Meeting girls over the internet is just not an option, at least not until I’m out of school, when I might be willing to consider it.

Here's a link to a few pictures of myself for anyone who cares to see

Login to a private Photobucket.com album

the password for the album is derekb

Hey DerekB.

First I`d like to tell you that there are many many guys and girls out there like you. And a lot people havent had sex or kissed or held hands until they are 22 or 25 or even older. It`s not that unusual at all. I have a friend who looks like a supermodel but has never kissed a guy. She too, is like you - tense. She also says she cant loosen up or start a conversation or dance.
Some people are just like that.

You cant change that overnight...

You have to take small steps... you might never be the guy who dances all night on the dancefloor (which is more than okay)but you can and you WILL (trust me) get more confident. You are still very young. It will get better over time.

I would suggest what Brutha said - take dancing lessons. In addition to learning how to dance it will loosen you up - you will get used to physical contact and having a woman that close to you. I think that will be very important. That friend I talked about - she once told me that when a guy brushed her arm, she jumped... I think it`s similar to you freezing on the dancefloor. You might think it`s silly and impossible but your body is not used to being that close to the opposite sex and subconsciously you just make a big deal out of it and freeze. You get all anxious and nervous and cant relax. My English is awful today, I hope you get my idea..
And once you learn to dance you WILL have women wanting to dance with you, really:)
It`s just such a joy to dance with a guy who knows what he`s doing. It doesnt have to mean anything sexual, it`s just SO MUCH FUN.
Ok, I know that you dont consider dancing fun and its not your thing but I think it will do miracles to getting you more confident and comfortable around women.

Trust me, this will work itself out eventually:)

I just looked at your album and...

Whatever gave you the idea that there`s something wrong with your looks??

You look great!

Stop worrying and listen to Alex, for once!!!!

:D

Letting loose while dancing is part of knowing how to dance.

Secondly, if you don't know how to dance why do you expect that girls want to dance with you?
For a girl it's not that much fun to dance with a tense guy who can't move to the music. A girl might feel pity for you and dance with you.
If you want that girls dance with you because they think that they will enjoy the dance, you have to learn how to dance.

Ok, just throwing it out there...really the quote was comparing living from logic vs. from the heart. :)

Move to the heart and your life makes a 180 degree shift in direction, that's all.

I'm a 20 yr old chick from the U.S, still a virgin, don't long to lose my virginity, doesn't see sex as a test or exam that I run the risk of failing or failed. In fact, considering that I'm a minority, the doctor's always ask me 4-6 times if it's true that I'm a virgin and then compliment me or get all shocked because I am. I love dancing, don't like parties. Energy overwhelm.

OP, do you think you're suppose to have lost your virginity by now or is this something you genuinely want? Just asking for clarification.

Reread this please and compare with what I quoted above:

"It is very important that you do not expect success. By re-framing a goal as getting rejected you will destroy any mental barriers to approaching.

You sound like a fat person who never tried exercising, or a fat person who tried running once and seeing how difficult it is started contemplating suicide, while the solution is to expect to suck at first and build up endurance over a period of time. "


I was not referring to your weight. I was actually making a parallel with your attitude towards approaching girls.

I looked at your photos. It was immediately obvious why you're not successful with girls. You look like someone I could easily beat up. Now don't get me wrong, I think you have great potential to become a bad-ass. It's just that you need to become more masculine and rough.

There's movie called "Sex drive". Watch some of it, you'll see the example of a kid who looks more nerdy than you but is a complete bad-ass in his attitude.

That's a horrible comment to write. Ignore the immature poster above.

You don't have to be rough to get a girlfriend.

Your looks are not the problem. You need to have more confidence and a positive approach to life.

You're right. He doesn't need to become more manly. He can find a girlfriend just like he is. He just needs to try asking more girls out. Eventually some girl will like him.

However, if he wants to be among the really successful and sexually attractive men he needs to change.
Even when I was a "nice guy" I had girlfriends, but deep down I knew that I was just lucky, that I'm just average guy. That's when I realized something deep needs to change.

If really successful means being smug and beating up your wife like my husband did to me then why not go ahead and teach him to be that way.

After all we all want a rough bad boy that lies around the house when he gets older, cheats on his wife, lies to her and beats her up when she breaks up with him.

I think I’ll go with the funny guy next time.

That was a misunderstanding. Only a p***y would do such things to a woman. What I meant by rough masculine personality is not someone who is evil but someone who is strong and capable physically and emotionally. Such a man would risk his life to protect his woman.

I bet this guy is perceived by girls as boring and unattractive because he lacks personal power.

He is easily discouraged when he gets rejected and is sexually frustrated which inhibits him from trying.

The only way to solve this problem is to approach until some girl says Yes even if it means getting rejected by hundred girls.

I still have similar problems as you OP, even though I've had more than 10 girlfriends. I get an adrenaline rush every time I have to show a girl I like her. And for me the anxiety completely goes away once I've successfully kissed a girl.

There is no way around that anxiety and I'm going to approach 100 girls as a personal experiment to see what happens and how many of them will reject me.
I'll do this very directly and try to keep things simple. No one will find out what I'm doing because I'm not gonna tell anyone not even my closest friends. I'll will probably look like I'm having huge success with dating and an abundance of girls without trying. In reality I will probably get rejected by 7 girls out of 10. These numbers are pure speculation I'll never know until I've done it.

I'll quote this from another forum where someone did such thing:

Don't give up. When I was in my late teens I had mostly the same problems as you have. Though my father was never interested in this sphere of my life (probably, he was, but didn't show that).

I would recommend seeing a good psychotherapist - the one, who won't calm you down, but rather give you objective thoughts on your issues. My mistake was that I asked the psychotherapist for help only in my mid-twenties. I wish I did it earlier.

This reminds me of a Jerry Seinfeld comment that went something like, "Men hate it when they see women's magazines with articles like, '10 ways to meet men.' Why do you need articles on how to meet men? We're EVERYWHERE!"

I don't know how you can be on a college campus and have no luck meeting women. :) Unless you're at an all-male campus. ;) Women are everywhere! They're in your classes, they're in extra-curricular activities, they're going to a play, they're at the bookstore, they're buying lunch. All you have to do is say hi and talk to them once in awhile. Then you've met women!

DerekB, you've pretty much described my situation at around your age, although I continued to ignore that part of my life for a few more years into my twenties. Only recently I started working on getting more success with women. I haven't gotten there yet (far from it), and there's plenty of good advice here from people a lot more experienced than me, but maybe I can share a few little things that did help me get a little bit more success:

1) Instead of asking a woman out, try just casually inviting her to do something. For instance, instead of saying something like: "Are you free on Saturday? Would you like to go to a movie with me?", I'd drop in the middle of a conversation: "Hey, <movie name> is on at 7 tonight. You in?". It sounds more like "I'm going anyway, would you like to join? It'll be fun!" rather than a date. Can be anything, doesn't have to be a movie.

2) Eye contact can help you know if she's interested. If you are attracted to the girl you're chatting or going out with, you'll naturally want to look into her eyes longer. Do it, and see if she does the same and smiles at you. If she does, you can try holding hands, or whatever. If she follows you, keep moving forward in small steps. If she's not interested, she'll let you know in a friendly way.

3) The "getting out there" thing, like your friend told you. It seems like an oversimplification, but it's true. I didn't go out for parties much, but then one random night in a town I had never been to before, I was at a party and a pretty girl invited me to dance and we ended up kissing. Pure luck, but I think it's an example of how just being out there can present lots of opportunities to you.

Those are the things I've done so far that have worked for me. The hard part is that when you haven't had much success, each rejection or failed attempt hurts a lot more than it should. I guess the only thing you can do is stay strong and keep trying. Best of luck!

Somehow when I read that first line I realized you were either an INTJ or an ENTJ who is struggling with relationships and that a long story was to follow. :d

Well as an INTJ I can tell you my perspective on this.

If you go out to a club then you can for instance right away make an assumption that 30% of people there are completely non compatible with you (ugly, dumb, unavailable etc.), 30% of people are not your type, 30% are your type but wouldn't have sex with you - and 10% are the ones that you have a good chance bedding - sexually compatible, emotionally available and generally looking for GUYS JUST LIKE YOU.

So all you have to do is find these 10%.

How do you find them? You have to probe the field. When you are in a club - APPROACH people. Talk to people and try to reach out. No connection - then just approach someone else - and so on. Once you hit upon a person who is available and perfect then you two will absolutely find a way.. ;)

The hardest thing seems to be the approach part and here I have a very good piece of advice for you that will make your approaches a lot easier.

There are two parts to the approach. One: approach is simple when you OFFER things to the other person. Two: you have to ask questions and let them show you what they want, so that you can figure out what to offer them in the first place.

These are two parts to a single whole - when you don't find out what they might like being offered then you will most likely hit it wrong and get rejected - and if you forget to "offer" first, then it's really hard to get something from them.

But if you can offer them something first, they would be far more inclined to give things to you in return.

As for the sex thing, offering works best with physical contact - not with words. When you offer a girl sex, you touch her and get her excited about it - then you kiss her. If she wants what you are offering then she will respond by kissing you back - maybe even grab you with her both hands and kiss you wildly.

But you have to offer her an opportunity first - and the start to that is approaching her and figuring out for yourself what she is looking for.