To what extent are you civil?

[reekah]

I don't believe we are owed or guaranteed anything in life. I sometimes am uncivil for fun, or for the hell of it. I find social interaction is complex, we often place our own needs as superior above all others.

[Criseyde]

On this forum, we expect members to be civil at all times. It's in the rules:

Exercise good judgment, reasonableness, and mutual respect - This is a community for smart people who share an interest in personal growth, so please treat it as such. Personal attacks and name-calling as well as profane, pornographic, racist, sexist, or otherwise demeaning or offensive messages will not be tolerated. Recognize that there's a human being behind every post, and behave accordingly.

On a more personal level, unless I completely lose my temper (rare), I am civil. I see no reason to do otherwise.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

On this forum, we expect members to be civil at all times. It's in the rules:



On a more personal level, unless I completely lose my temper (rare), I am civil. I see no reason to do otherwise.

Even to people you don't respect/approve of?

[JDuff]

I personally think that all beings have dignity and are worthy of respect, and so I don't go around making other people feel bad!

However, me and my friends have a saying: "if you don't get a few dodgy looks or a few raised eyebrows a day, then you are not living properly." So in that respect, I think it's good to break down social barriers and be yourself.

But I don't recommend being rude and judging people!

--

On a related note, I think we are owed a great deal in life. In an original position, individuals would choose principles of justice that protected them, if they happened to end up worst off. If you happen to be born into a terrible place, it's easy for the well-off, e.g. the born rich, to change their minds and say "we owe them nothing." But before we are born, if nobody knew where they would end up, they would agree in a majority that the born suffering should be endowed to some extent. This would be to protect ourselves.

Furthermore, I believe that as citizens of a state, we are entitled to the capabilities required to function as equal citizens in that state. And as human beings, we are entitled to live as humans, to have our basic needs met. Nobody should be able to deny these things to us, just because they have more and choose to ignore us.

[Acting Like Godot]

I'm generally civil.

I would not be warm, friendly and open to just anyone. But I'm generally civil.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by reekah

Even to people you don't respect/approve of?

I don't really "disapprove of" people, and I try to respect everyone. I don't always succeed -- I've definitely thought "what an idiot!" privately, and sometimes I say things like that, too -- but, as they say, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

[reekah]

Isn't that being politically correct? Who is to say we have to approve of anybody?

[NoJobRob]

Originally Posted by reekah

Isn't that being politically correct? Who is to say we have to approve of anybody?

No one, but if you go around acting like a jerk, expect to be treated like one. You get what you give in life...

[reekah]

Originally Posted by NoJobRob

No one, but if you go around acting like a jerk, expect to be treated like one. You get what you give in life...

Isn't this politically correct also?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by reekah

Isn't that being politically correct? Who is to say we have to approve of anybody?

You say politically correct like it's a bad thing.

Nobody told me that I have to approve of anybody, but what's the point in disapproving of people? What does that mean? Are you disapproving of their existence?

I like people, and I feel like I recently figured something out that people have asked a lot on this board. In this subforum especially, we get a lot of people wanting to know how to make friends and develop better social skills. There are a lot of people who feel like others don't like them. I never felt like I could help those people, because although I'm generally liked well enough, I've always been and I didn't know why. Now, though, after some observation with that question in mind, I think I've figured it out. Positive regard. People who are truly well liked hold others in a positive light. This builds good connections (for obvious reasons)

[Prinie]

Is this thread your way of being uncivil reekah? provoking the h.e.l.l out of people who believe in civility?

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

You say politically correct like it's a bad thing.

Most deem it one of the banes of contemporary Western society.

Nobody told me that I have to approve of anybody, but what's the point in disapproving of people? What does that mean? Are you disapproving of their existence?

Nobody is God, are they? Who says who or what can exist?

I like people, and I feel like I recently figured something out that people have asked a lot on this board. In this subforum especially, we get a lot of people wanting to know how to make friends and develop better social skills. There are a lot of people who feel like others don't like them. I never felt like I could help those people, because although I'm generally liked well enough, I've always been and I didn't know why. Now, though, after some observation with that question in mind, I think I've figured it out. Positive regard. People who are truly well liked hold others in a positive light. This builds good connections (for obvious reasons)

Are you sure? I think being likeable is largely about luck, most things are in life.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by reekah

Isn't that being politically correct? Who is to say we have to approve of anybody?

You don't.

And unless you have some kind of relationship with the person, he or she probably doesn't care, know, or care to know, whether you approve of him or not.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by reekah

Are you sure? I think being likeable is largely about luck, most things are in life.

If you make a list of 10 people you like, and 10 people you dislike or feel neutral about, and out the lists side by side and compare, you'll probably discover that there are some specific characteristics that tend to make a person likeable or not.

From my own working life, I've kinda noticed the following:

1. Likeable people often end up in Sales.

2. Many leaders are respected but not liked. There's a difference.

3. Unlikeable people suffer disadvantages that they will largely be unaware of. For example, other colleagues will deliberately withhold info for them, or give them a little less time etc.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

If you make a list of 10 people you like, and 10 people you dislike or feel neutral about, and out the lists side by side and compare, you'll probably discover that there are some specific characteristics that tend to make a person likeable or not.

From my own working life, I've kinda noticed the following:

1. Likeable people often end up in Sales.

2. Many leaders are respected but not liked. There's a difference.

3. Unlikeable people suffer disadvantages that they will largely be unaware of. For example, other colleagues will deliberately withhold info for them, or give them a little less time etc.

I'm not sure about that. I think how we value others/like them is dependent on our own personality/value system. It is complex, not a simple process.

[NoJobRob]

Originally Posted by reekah

Isn't this politically correct also?

What does PC have to do with anything being discussed here? That's like asking if something someone wrote about physics is rap or heavy metal. LOL

[reekah]

Originally Posted by NoJobRob

What does PC have to do with anything being discussed here? That's like asking if something someone wrote about physics is rap or heavy metal. LOL

#

That answer to me seemed too PC.

[Acting Like Godot]

Sure. I didn't say it's simple. If you analyze it and break it down, it would probably become a book.

Personally, I work in a very international, multi-cultural context. I have colleagues who come from all over the world. I've noticed that a few rare individuals can be well-liked:

1. On a 360 degrees basis. That is, by their peers, subordinates AND bosses;

And also:

2. By colleagues from different cultures and countries.

This is quite rare. More commonly, a person is well-liked by, say, his peers but not necessarily his boss ..... Or by people from his own culture, but he might not be able to build rapport so easily with people from other cultures/backgrounds.

The ability to connect well across the different ranks, cultures and countries - and to be liked and respected across that spectrum - is quite rare.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You don't.

And unless you have some kind of relationship with the person, he or she probably doesn't care, know, or care to know, whether you approve of him or not.

Everybody is free, aren't they?

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure. I didn't say it's simple. If you analyze it and break it down, it would probably become a book.

Personally, I work in a very international, multi-cultural context. I have colleagues who come from all over the world. I've noticed that a few rare individuals can be well-liked:

1. On a 360 degrees basis. That is, by their peers, subordinates AND bosses;

And also:

2. By colleagues from different cultures and countries.

This is quite rare. More commonly, a person is well-liked by, say, his peers but not necessarily his boss ..... Or by people from his own culture, but he might not be able to build rapport so easily with people from other cultures/backgrounds.

The ability to connect well across the different ranks, cultures and countries - and to be liked and respected across that spectrum - is quite rare.

Well as said, it depends on personal biases.

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh, I forgot to mention age and gender.

Some folks click well with their own age-group, or with members of their gender, or the opposite gender, but not necessarily otherwise.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Oh, I forgot to mention age and gender.

Some folks click well with their own age-group, or with members of their gender, or the opposite gender, but not necessarily otherwise.

There is no logical pattern. Is that new news?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by reekah

Well as said, it depends on personal biases.

But it also depends on your ability to handle the personal biases of the people you meet.

Of course, we have deviated far from your OP. What we're exploring now is how to build meaningful, successful relationships with another person (regardless of his/her age, rank, skin colour, appearance, culture etc).

It may not be terribly relevant for you though (since you have stated you sometimes like to be uncivil for the fun of it). It's relevant for me, because I actually do work with colleagues and clients from all over.

Brits, Aussies, Koreans, Thais, Americans, Malaysians, Singaporeans, Indians and Germans, for instance.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by JDuff

I personally think that all beings have dignity and are worthy of respect, and so I don't go around making other people feel bad!

However, me and my friends have a saying: "if you don't get a few dodgy looks or a few raised eyebrows a day, then you are not living properly." So in that respect, I think it's good to break down social barriers and be yourself.

But I don't recommend being rude and judging people!

I think rudeness is overstated and is widely subjective, so in the end it's immaterial.

--

On a related note, I think we are owed a great deal in life. In an original position, individuals would choose principles of justice that protected them, if they happened to end up worst off. If you happen to be born into a terrible place, it's easy for the well-off, e.g. the born rich, to change their minds and say "we owe them nothing." But before we are born, if nobody knew where they would end up, they would agree in a majority that the born suffering should be endowed to some extent. This would be to protect ourselves.

Well, life isn't fair, I think it's politically correct to demonise the successful.

Furthermore, I believe that as citizens of a state, we are entitled to the capabilities required to function as equal citizens in that state. And as human beings, we are entitled to live as humans, to have our basic needs met. Nobody should be able to deny these things to us, just because they have more and choose to ignore us.

According to whom? This only works in a liberal democracy, and even then liberal democracy is just one system in many that exist and ever have and will. I think humans per our nature live for our own benefit above all, all else is secondary.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

But it also depends on your ability to handle the personal biases of the people you meet.

I personally don't care. People will think as they think and value as they value. In the end, the individual is the measure of all things.

[Criseyde]

Do you intend to troll this forum?

[reekah]

No, not at all. I'm just questioning why civility matters. My own opinion is that as we are owed nothing, it shouldn't matter if we are treated or treat others civilly.

[ZephyrusX]

I think there is a lot of merit to what Criseyde said and I don't think being liked has anything to do with luck at all.

reekah, you seem to think there that one cannot be civil if you disapprove with another person, but in my own experience, this just isn't the case. I disagree with people quite frequently, but I would say that I am liked and even loved by some of those people* because I can continue to see them in high regard and I can treat them with respect. I am still able to see the humanity in people I vehemently disagree with.

* i.e my grandmother - yes, I love her and she loves me despite all the differences we have on social issues, like homosexuality.

What you said initially is technically true. No one is entitled to our civility, but just from my own experience, it is in my benefit to be respectful.

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I like people, and I feel like I recently figured something out that people have asked a lot on this board. In this subforum especially, we get a lot of people wanting to know how to make friends and develop better social skills. There are a lot of people who feel like others don't like them. I never felt like I could help those people, because although I'm generally liked well enough, I've always been and I didn't know why. Now, though, after some observation with that question in mind, I think I've figured it out. Positive regard. People who are truly well liked hold others in a positive light. This builds good connections (for obvious reasons)

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by reekah

No, not at all. I'm just questioning why civility matters. My own opinion is that as we are owed nothing, it shouldn't matter if we are treated or treat others civilly.

Just checking!

Do you think we should only do things that we're obligated to do?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by reekah

I think rudeness is overstated and is widely subjective, so in the end it's immaterial.

Interestingly, discussion of rudeness, and how the owner of this website has recently declared that there won't be much leeway for it here, has been something of a concern in the forums lately.

If you don't care about getting banned, then yes, it's immaterial. If you would like to stay and participate in the forums, I would say it's not.

Now that I think about it, that's a metaphor for any and all relationships -- if you don't care about the results you get with people, incivility doesn't matter. And if you want to have relationships in which you feel welcomed, respected, or fully heard and engaged, being civil, in my view, is a basic building block for getting the results you want.