Is it important to be good looking?

[Criseyde]

This has been rolling around in my head for a while, and I thought it would make a neat thread.

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness (innate -- I'm not talking about grooming etc)?
- Why?

How much do you care about physical attractiveness in others?
- Friends?
- Lovers?
- Everyone else?

Where is physical attractiveness on your list of desirable qualities?

[reekah]

To some extent, yes. Like most, I feel a glow when around an attractive woman.

But I don't think it matters categorically. There is more to life than sex/dating, and general character is not defined by looks. I wouldn't say I am an aesthetic person in general.

[BillyTheAdult]

This is something I've thought about a good amount before. Maybe not in those exact terms but basically, in my opinion it is not possible to separate grooming, and attitude, from pure physicality, they all sort of mesh into one. I mean to the point that they change one anther on the deepest levels. They are quite literally, insperably, the same.

[Acting Like Godot]

I just came back from a 10-day holiday in Korea and I wanted to share something with you, Criseyde.

While I was there, there were at least 10 occasions when strangers would tell my wife, my children or myself that we looked beautiful, handsome, attractive or pretty.

It was very strange. Some examples:

1. We were at a theme park. Three teenagers started following us around. Finally they said that they would like to take a photo with my daughter (age 7) because she was so pretty.

2. A taxi driver went into a long monologue in his broken English about how handsome I was, and how lucky my son is, to look like me.

3. At a market, there were several stalls selling hair clips. Two shop owners fawned over my daughter, wanted to doll her up, pinned her hair with all kinds of hair clips, and eventually gave her five clips for free (we bought nothing at all from them).

4. At a restaurant, the female waitress kept staring at my wife and finally came close and peered at her face and asked her if she was wearing lipstick. My wife said no, and the waitress said, "Wow," and basically said that my wife had such naturally beautiful lips.

5. At another restaurant, a customer who could barely speak English came over and tried hard (with single words, hand gestures and thumbs-up) to say that my two children looked lovely.

6. At a park, a stranger told my wife that I looked like a certain TV star.

Basically, this hasn't happened to us before. I think that we look alright, maybe a little above average, but this is the first time so many strangers have repeatedly told us we look great.

I suspect that this was either:

(1) a rash of LOA synchronicities triggering each other off; or

(2) beauty is in the conditioned eye of the beholder, and we just possess certain looks which are considered attractive by Koreans.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

This is something I've thought about a good amount before. Maybe not in those exact terms but basically, in my opinion it is not possible to separate grooming, and attitude, from pure physicality, they all sort of mesh into one. I mean to the point that they change one anther on the deepest levels. They are quite literally, insperably, the same.

I don't know if I think this is true. I think it might be a cop out from those of us (I include myself in this) who don't want to admit to vanity or shallowness. I'm not sure though.

For example, I've known some physically beautiful girls who were also cripplingly insecure and constantly put themselves down.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I just came back from a 10-day holiday in Korea and I wanted to share something with you, Criseyde.

While I was there, there were at least 10 occasions when strangers would tell my wife, my children or myself that we looked beautiful, handsome, attractive or pretty.

It was very strange. Some examples:

1. We were at a theme park. Three teenagers started following us around. Finally they said that they would like to take a photo with my daughter (age 7) because she was so pretty.

2. A taxi driver went into a long monologue in his broken English about how handsome I was, and how lucky my son is, to look like me.

3. At a market, there were several stalls selling hair clips. Two shop owners fawned over my daughter, wanted to doll her up, pinned her hair with all kinds of hair clips, and eventually gave her five clips for free (we bought nothing at all from them).

4. At a restaurant, the female waitress kept staring at my wife and finally came close and peered at her face and asked her if she was wearing lipstick. My wife said no, and the waitress said, "Wow," and basically said that my wife had such naturally beautiful lips.

5. At another restaurant, a customer who could barely speak English came over and tried hard (with single words, hand gestures and thumbs-up) to say that my two children looked lovely.

6. At a park, a stranger told my wife that I looked like a certain TV star.

Basically, this hasn't happened to us before. I think that we look alright, maybe a little above average, but this is the first time so many strangers have repeatedly told us we look great.

I suspect that this was either:

(1) a rash of LOA synchronicities triggering each other off; or

(2) beauty is in the conditioned eye of the beholder, and we just possess certain looks which are considered attractive by Koreans.

That's cool. I bet you do have beautiful children!

How important do you think it is to be good looking? I'm guessing by the way you described yourself that it isn't that important to you, but I'm not sure.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I don't know if I think this is true. I think it might be a cop out from those of us (I include myself in this) who don't want to admit to vanity or shallowness. I'm not sure though.

For example, I've known some physically beautiful girls who were also cripplingly insecure and constantly put themselves down.

But what were their actual beliefs beneath that. Also maybe because they were insecure it led them to cultivate good looks over a period of years as compensation and now they have an eye for beauty.

I don't think you are taking this comment in entirely the way I mean it, but I do probably somewhat mean it the way you seem to be taking it.

I mean if you take two reasonably attractive girls, about even, from a young age, like 10, and one of them is very concerned with looks, and the other more with say book smarts. Which of them do you think will be better looking by the age of 25, and will that have been because of natural beauty, or from the cultivation of beauty? It's just like you said

I think that most people are reasonably attractive.

So to me it's all about not only what you do with it but for how long. Mental beliefs surely manifest themselves physically, so by being concerned with looks you actually become physically better looking.

[VinceG]

Is it important to be good looking?

It's all I live for.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

But what were their actual beliefs beneath that. Also maybe because they were insecure it led them to cultivate good looks over a period of years as compensation and now they have an eye for beauty.

I don't think you are taking this comment in entirely the way I mean it, but I do probably somewhat mean it the way you seem to be taking it.

I mean if you take two reasonably attractive girls, about even, from a young age, like 10, and one of them is very concerned with looks, and the other more with say book smarts. Which of them do you think will be better looking by the age of 25, and will that have been because of natural beauty, or from the cultivation of beauty? It's just like you said So to me it's all about not only what you do with it but for how long. Mental beliefs surely manifest themselves physically, so by being concerned with looks you actually become physically better looking.

Interesting. To what extent do you think that's self-selecting? By the time we're teenagers, we basically know whether or not we fit beauty ideals. So maybe the people who see no hope in that area turn to other things, while the people who do focus on it.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

Mental beliefs surely manifest themselves physically, so by being concerned with looks you actually become physically better looking.

I agree with what's before the comma, but I think what comes after is an over-simplification. I think stress plays a major part in the aging process. Ultimately, I think our emotional states will make the biggest impact on our looks. Meditation is a great tool for slowing down the aging process.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

How important do you think it is to be good looking? I'm guessing by the way you described yourself that it isn't that important to you, but I'm not sure.

I like interesting faces. Not necessarily "good-looking", in the way, for instance, models are good-looking.

Interesting faces (and generally, interesting appearances) mean, to me, a face or appearance that oozes (or seems to ooze) a lot of personality, and in a non-verbal way, says a lot (or seems to say a lot) about who the person is, what his or her mood, character or background is.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I like interesting faces. Not necessarily "good-looking", in the way, for instance, models are good-looking.

Interesting faces (and generally, interesting appearances) mean, to me, a face or appearance that oozes (or seems to ooze) a lot of personality, and in a non-verbal way, says a lot (or seems to say a lot) about who the person is, what his or her mood, character or background is.

I'm the same.

I like it when a person has an interesting face, or something about their face that is interesting to me. Even if they are ugly, if they look interesting, then I will like them.

The person I am seeing right now has an interesting face, though I am not attracted to him sexually.

[Criseyde]

I'm going to answer my own questions in the hope that it will encourage others to answer.

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness (innate -- I'm not talking about grooming etc)?

Yes. Probably more than I should. That's probably why I made this thread!

- Why?

I don't really know. Maybe the bog standard "we're encouraged by society." It probably has something to do with approval and feeling like other people value beauty.

How much do you care about physical attractiveness in others?

Much less than I care about it in myself.

- Friends?

I think all my friends are attractive. I also tend to find people more physically pretty as I get to like them better.

- Lovers?

And I've never been involved with a guy I didn't find really attractive.

- Everyone else?

I really couldn't care less. I notice pretty people, but I don't really go around rating people on their looks. I think that most people are reasonably attractive.

Where is physical attractiveness on your list of desirable qualities?

This is the rub. I really feel like looks shouldn't be important. I don't think that facial structure, body type, coloring, etc. tells you anything about a person except whatever is in their genes (and perhaps what's in their box of hair dye ). I'm actually wondering if I have some issue happening on this topic, because I feel rather unhappy when people insist that physical attractiveness is important.

[butterflyeffect]

I love good looking people and find the human race to be exceptionally beautiful. I don't think there is anyone who is truly ugly but my ability to appreciate it is what changes.

For me personally, my looks are very important and tied up in myself worth. If I like myself I treat myself nicely and buy beautiful clothing and spend time on my appearance. If I don't like myself, I punish myself by wearing old clothes and not doing hair and make up. It affects how I feel very deeply even if I am not always consciously aware of it.

As much as I love fashion and make up, the over the top airbrushed photos aren't what I consider real beauty, they are a collaborative fantasy to enjoy.
I like looking at interesting photos of people, children and old people.

In my friends looks again are very important. I seem to choose friends who look and act similiar to me. I love being around people who glow with health and happiness and that tends to come with their own sense of style and self reflected in their looks.

Lovers - looks are paramount. If I don't feel physically attracted to you or chemistry I don't want to go there. I am very rigid, I only like people with blonde hair and not too much taller than me. As ridiculous as it is, I am just not happy unless I like the look of my partner.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

This is the rub. I really feel like looks shouldn't be important. I don't think that facial structure, body type, coloring, etc. tells you anything about a person except whatever is in their genes (and perhaps what's in their box of hair dye ). I'm actually wondering if I have some issue happening on this topic, because I feel rather unhappy when people insist that physical attractiveness is important.

I concluded the same thing many years ago.

[MessyJenny]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

This is the rub. I really feel like looks shouldn't be important. I don't think that facial structure, body type, coloring, etc. tells you anything about a person except whatever is in their genes (and perhaps what's in their box of hair dye ). I'm actually wondering if I have some issue happening on this topic, because I feel rather unhappy when people insist that physical attractiveness is important.

I feel the same but this is sadly not the way things are

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Thankfully it’s not as bad in Australia (well, at least in New South Wales) and the people are not high on looks when choosing friends or relationships. We have celebrities like Kasey Chambers, Gemma Luxton, David Kosh, Kyle Sandilands, Tracy Grimshaw, Andrew Denton, Julia Morris (Winner of this year’s Australian Celebrity Apprentice), Ryan Fitzgerald, Troy Cassar-Daley, John Williamson, Adam Harvey, Fictitious Smurf, Katie Noonan, Sara Storer etc that look like everyday people but have had very successful careers in this country. I’m not particularly a big Melinda Schneider fan but I think you should watch this video below and listen to the lyrics.

Melinda Schneider - Real People - YouTube

Your country sounds like it is full of different values and attitudes on dating.

You are the first male I have heard say personality is more important on looks. It would be good if more males had the same attitude as you.

If the woman in the last picture is famous in Australia maybe we should all move there.

[CoolBee]

By the way, I just thought I should draw to your attention that Dove products (as in 'real women' campaign) are made by Unilever. The exact same company which promotes products called Fair and Lovely over here, throughout Middle East and India which are skin bleaches. Their advertising basically pushes the 'pale is better' and helps you get jobs etc.

Unilever - Dove

Unilever - Fair and Lovely

Not a lot of people know that.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by CoolBee

By the way, I just thought I should draw to your attention that Dove products (as in 'real women' campaign) are made by Unilever. The exact same company which promotes products called Fair and Lovely over here, throughout Middle East and India which are skin bleaches. Their advertising basically pushes the 'pale is better' and helps you get jobs etc.

Unilever - Dove

Unilever - Fair and Lovely

Not a lot of people know that.

Yes. Women in India do not want to get tanned. So they cover their faces when they go out in the Sun. It's the exact opposite in the West.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by MessyJenny

I feel the same but this is sadly not the way things are



Your country sounds like it is full of different values and attitudes on dating.

You are the first male I have heard say personality is more important on looks. It would be good if more males had the same attitude as you.

If the woman in the last picture is famous in Australia maybe we should all move there.

Yeah, it is.

I used to think America was similar to Australia but after reading some things on the internet I think our countries are very different. For one, the people I know who have been to America have all told me your food is twice the size of ours and your electrical appliances and CDs are very cheap. There is an emphasis with young people on looks too and people are co-dependent and influenced by the media. Not all of them are this way of course but it’s one of the things that stand out on the net.

Clubs, pubs and parties are different here too. In my town we have an ex serviceman’s club that is mainly full of old people, another full of gay people and another full of people that dress like punks and don’t wash their hair. We have Panthers and a Parramatta Leagues club but the only time my wife and I have gone there is to see concerts. We have barbecues here instead of parties and my wife has gatherings at our house with some of her friends from church. Most of my friends avoid Panthers now because they say there is too much violence going on in them and there have been a few people that have been attacked by gangs on the way back to their cars at night.

Dancing isn’t as popular here as I heard it is in America. We didn’t have a prom in High School and my first girlfriend and I usually ditched the formals and evenings to do something better unless we were performing at them.

[MariconesUnited]

Gary Michaels...I will not miss all your posts that derail each and every single thread you post in. You love your wife and your country, we get it.

[MessyJenny]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Gary Michaels...I will not miss all your posts that derail each and every single thread you post in. You love your wife and your country, we get it.

Gary did not derail this thread.

He was replying to me so i you have an issue take it up with me.

[ZephyrusX]

Yes, but I'm not overly happy with why I care. I've been toying with the idea that we ought to change our physical appearances based on what we want, but then, there is always a nagging thought at the back of my head that I am actually doing this in order to live up to external standards of beauty.

I think it is more important to have the inner freedom to express my physical appearances in a way that makes me feel good. That does mean dressing up in a way that makes me feel sexy, but it also means just having fun, being creative and having a light hearted attitude about the whole thing.

I don't think I am quite there yet though. May be. I certainly haven't posted a clean shot of my face on here yet, but it isn't as if I'm going to pretend that I have a perfect face (or body for that matter). I really am as hairy as the cat (well may be not quite as hairy) and refuse to wax. But you see, that gives me every right to say, 'Not on the hairs of my chinny chin chin!' And everyone knows that it is sexy when someone rubs the hairs on their chin. Gender roles be damned

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness

- Why?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Yes, but I'm not overly happy with why I care. I've been toying with the idea that we ought to change our physical appearances based on what we want, but then, there is always a nagging thought at the back of my head that I am actually doing this in order to live up to external standards of beauty.

I think it is more important to have the inner freedom to express my physical appearances in a way that makes me feel good. That does mean dressing up in a way that makes me feel sexy, but it also means just having fun, being creative and having a light hearted attitude about the whole thing.

I don't think I am quite there yet though. May be. I certainly haven't posted a clean shot of my face on here yet, but it isn't as if I'm going to pretend that I have a perfect face (or body for that matter). I really am as hairy as the cat (well may be not quite as hairy) and refuse to wax. But you see, that gives me every right to say, 'Not on the hairs of my chinny chin chin!' And everyone knows that it is sexy when someone rubs the hairs on their chin. Gender roles be damned

LOL. I do tweeze my eyebrows... and my beard. My eyebrows are HUGE (srsly.), and I don't like how they look when they're not done. I still keep them fairly heavy, but... um... well, I could have been a CaterpillarWoman, too!

So, I understand about being hairy. And about expressing physical appearance in a way that's not normal -- I do a few things that aren't very common.


ALG, it seems like all of those examples are attractive people who had a good photographer (perhaps excepting the last one, but the only thing making him 'unattractive' is the heavy wrinkles). Or am I missing something?

[VinceG]

I think beauty is important, and that one needs to appreciate it. I think that everybody is beautiful in their own way. I am particularly attracted to more interesting types of beauty like the pictures ALG has been posting.

I don't really believe in ugliness. So it's hard for me to answer a question like "is beauty important to you?". Everyone's beautiful, what's different is people's capacities to recognize that.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I think beauty is important, and that one needs to appreciate it. I think that everybody is beautiful in their own way. I am particularly attracted to more interesting types of beauty like the pictures ALG has been posting.

I don't really believe in ugliness. So it's hard for me to answer a question like "is beauty important to you?". Everyone's beautiful, what's different is people's capacities to recognize that.

I don't quite believe in ugliness either, but I was wondering where beauty falls compared to other traits in people's personal value systems. Especially because I know that a lot of people DO believe in it!

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I don't quite believe in ugliness either, but I was wondering where beauty falls compared to other traits in people's personal value systems. Especially because I know that a lot of people DO believe in it!

I don't think you'll find such people very willing to part with that information, as the dynamic is largely subconscious.

[ZephyrusX]

I gave up on the tweezers. It is an never ending battle. I'll only tweeze the really long, black hairs (having dark hair isn't a bonus in this regard )

I have to admit though, there is a part of me that is rather attracted to the hair. Once in a while, I'll wake up, look into the mirror, and notice that there is this really freakishly long (I mean long!) black hair. And I sit there for a moment or two thinking, 'no! That couldn't possibly be a hair! *poke* Oh, my!'

What is up with that? If I didn't have to go out, I'd leave the freakishly long hairs in and see just how long they would grow. Measuring time!

Originally Posted by Criseyde

LOL. I do tweeze my eyebrows... and my beard. My eyebrows are HUGE (srsly.), and I don't like how they look when they're not done. I still keep them fairly heavy, but... um... well, I could have been a CaterpillarWoman, too!

So, I understand about being hairy. And about expressing physical appearance in a way that's not normal -- I do a few things that aren't very common.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

ALG, it seems like all of those examples are attractive people who had a good photographer (perhaps excepting the last one, but the only thing making him 'unattractive' is the heavy wrinkles). Or am I missing something?

Okay, maybe I need a little compare-&-contrast to better explain what I mean.


To me, this is a conventionally handsome face. Good skin; young; well-proportioned features; well-groomed hair. However, I do not find this face interesting.


Now here is a conventionally ugly face. Wrinkled skin; dishevelled hair; can't even see his eyes in this photo. But this face has much more personality than the earlier one.


Here is a face that I personally would not consider "attractive". I personally don't think that such a hairstyle is nice and I think that her nose is too big for my idea of conventional beauty. Nevertheless I find this face very interesting and to me, it oozes personality.

[Acting Like Godot]

I think that maybe the word I'm looking for is expressiveness. I like expressive faces - faces that can powerfully convey a range of different emotions ... and the different aspects of the person's character.

Tom Cruise is an example (to me) of a handsome but uninteresting face. I mean, there seems to be a rather limited number of expressions he can have on his face.

Interesting faces:


Beautiful too.


Completely unattractive, and yet very interesting.


Too weird to be "beautiful", but oozes quirkiness, originality, emotion.


Boy, is he ugly ... but this is maybe a good example of what I mean about a face that shows a lot about what the person's personality, mood, character etc.

[cacheborn]

ALG, your main criterion for attractiveness seems to be expressive face, as you said. Would that restrict it to only good actors? Many people are capable of feeling, but they may not be good at expressing it effectively.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness (innate -- I'm not talking about grooming etc)?

Not especially. I've always been attracted to a person for their mind (sense of humour, intelligence, ability to carry on a decent conversation, etc.). I certainly recognise very attractive people (men, particularly; I'm hardly immune to a "sexy fireman" calendar!), but as far as relationships (friendship, romantic, whatever) go, I'm not fussed. In fact, I, personally, have tended to be somewhat distrustful of very good looking men. In my unfortunate experience, they tend to be arrogant and they tend to be users. (I know this is not true of all good looking men; this is only my own experience.)

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Where is physical attractiveness on your list of desirable qualities?

Errr, pretty low, actually. I did once have a good female friend who was extremely attractive. We're talking beauty pageant level of attractive. Super photogenic, adorable petite but curvy figure, gorgeous face, lots of naturally wavy dark hair. Just really beautiful. The thing is, though, she was also highly intelligent, very kind and loving, and a genuinely nice person. Basically, she had so many great qualities, the things I like in a friend, that her looks were not an issue, which is, as far as I'm concerned, should always be the case in relationships.