Is it important to be good looking?

[Criseyde]

This has been rolling around in my head for a while, and I thought it would make a neat thread.

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness (innate -- I'm not talking about grooming etc)?
- Why?

How much do you care about physical attractiveness in others?
- Friends?
- Lovers?
- Everyone else?

Where is physical attractiveness on your list of desirable qualities?

[reekah]

To some extent, yes. Like most, I feel a glow when around an attractive woman.

But I don't think it matters categorically. There is more to life than sex/dating, and general character is not defined by looks. I wouldn't say I am an aesthetic person in general.

[BillyTheAdult]

This is something I've thought about a good amount before. Maybe not in those exact terms but basically, in my opinion it is not possible to separate grooming, and attitude, from pure physicality, they all sort of mesh into one. I mean to the point that they change one anther on the deepest levels. They are quite literally, insperably, the same.

[Acting Like Godot]

I just came back from a 10-day holiday in Korea and I wanted to share something with you, Criseyde.

While I was there, there were at least 10 occasions when strangers would tell my wife, my children or myself that we looked beautiful, handsome, attractive or pretty.

It was very strange. Some examples:

1. We were at a theme park. Three teenagers started following us around. Finally they said that they would like to take a photo with my daughter (age 7) because she was so pretty.

2. A taxi driver went into a long monologue in his broken English about how handsome I was, and how lucky my son is, to look like me.

3. At a market, there were several stalls selling hair clips. Two shop owners fawned over my daughter, wanted to doll her up, pinned her hair with all kinds of hair clips, and eventually gave her five clips for free (we bought nothing at all from them).

4. At a restaurant, the female waitress kept staring at my wife and finally came close and peered at her face and asked her if she was wearing lipstick. My wife said no, and the waitress said, "Wow," and basically said that my wife had such naturally beautiful lips.

5. At another restaurant, a customer who could barely speak English came over and tried hard (with single words, hand gestures and thumbs-up) to say that my two children looked lovely.

6. At a park, a stranger told my wife that I looked like a certain TV star.

Basically, this hasn't happened to us before. I think that we look alright, maybe a little above average, but this is the first time so many strangers have repeatedly told us we look great.

I suspect that this was either:

(1) a rash of LOA synchronicities triggering each other off; or

(2) beauty is in the conditioned eye of the beholder, and we just possess certain looks which are considered attractive by Koreans.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

This is something I've thought about a good amount before. Maybe not in those exact terms but basically, in my opinion it is not possible to separate grooming, and attitude, from pure physicality, they all sort of mesh into one. I mean to the point that they change one anther on the deepest levels. They are quite literally, insperably, the same.

I don't know if I think this is true. I think it might be a cop out from those of us (I include myself in this) who don't want to admit to vanity or shallowness. I'm not sure though.

For example, I've known some physically beautiful girls who were also cripplingly insecure and constantly put themselves down.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I just came back from a 10-day holiday in Korea and I wanted to share something with you, Criseyde.

While I was there, there were at least 10 occasions when strangers would tell my wife, my children or myself that we looked beautiful, handsome, attractive or pretty.

It was very strange. Some examples:

1. We were at a theme park. Three teenagers started following us around. Finally they said that they would like to take a photo with my daughter (age 7) because she was so pretty.

2. A taxi driver went into a long monologue in his broken English about how handsome I was, and how lucky my son is, to look like me.

3. At a market, there were several stalls selling hair clips. Two shop owners fawned over my daughter, wanted to doll her up, pinned her hair with all kinds of hair clips, and eventually gave her five clips for free (we bought nothing at all from them).

4. At a restaurant, the female waitress kept staring at my wife and finally came close and peered at her face and asked her if she was wearing lipstick. My wife said no, and the waitress said, "Wow," and basically said that my wife had such naturally beautiful lips.

5. At another restaurant, a customer who could barely speak English came over and tried hard (with single words, hand gestures and thumbs-up) to say that my two children looked lovely.

6. At a park, a stranger told my wife that I looked like a certain TV star.

Basically, this hasn't happened to us before. I think that we look alright, maybe a little above average, but this is the first time so many strangers have repeatedly told us we look great.

I suspect that this was either:

(1) a rash of LOA synchronicities triggering each other off; or

(2) beauty is in the conditioned eye of the beholder, and we just possess certain looks which are considered attractive by Koreans.

That's cool. I bet you do have beautiful children!

How important do you think it is to be good looking? I'm guessing by the way you described yourself that it isn't that important to you, but I'm not sure.

[Criseyde]

I'm going to answer my own questions in the hope that it will encourage others to answer.

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness (innate -- I'm not talking about grooming etc)?

Yes. Probably more than I should. That's probably why I made this thread!

- Why?

I don't really know. Maybe the bog standard "we're encouraged by society." It probably has something to do with approval and feeling like other people value beauty.

How much do you care about physical attractiveness in others?

Much less than I care about it in myself.

- Friends?

I think all my friends are attractive. I also tend to find people more physically pretty as I get to like them better.

- Lovers?

And I've never been involved with a guy I didn't find really attractive.

- Everyone else?

I really couldn't care less. I notice pretty people, but I don't really go around rating people on their looks. I think that most people are reasonably attractive.

Where is physical attractiveness on your list of desirable qualities?

This is the rub. I really feel like looks shouldn't be important. I don't think that facial structure, body type, coloring, etc. tells you anything about a person except whatever is in their genes (and perhaps what's in their box of hair dye ). I'm actually wondering if I have some issue happening on this topic, because I feel rather unhappy when people insist that physical attractiveness is important.

[butterflyeffect]

I love good looking people and find the human race to be exceptionally beautiful. I don't think there is anyone who is truly ugly but my ability to appreciate it is what changes.

For me personally, my looks are very important and tied up in myself worth. If I like myself I treat myself nicely and buy beautiful clothing and spend time on my appearance. If I don't like myself, I punish myself by wearing old clothes and not doing hair and make up. It affects how I feel very deeply even if I am not always consciously aware of it.

As much as I love fashion and make up, the over the top airbrushed photos aren't what I consider real beauty, they are a collaborative fantasy to enjoy.
I like looking at interesting photos of people, children and old people.

In my friends looks again are very important. I seem to choose friends who look and act similiar to me. I love being around people who glow with health and happiness and that tends to come with their own sense of style and self reflected in their looks.

Lovers - looks are paramount. If I don't feel physically attracted to you or chemistry I don't want to go there. I am very rigid, I only like people with blonde hair and not too much taller than me. As ridiculous as it is, I am just not happy unless I like the look of my partner.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I don't know if I think this is true. I think it might be a cop out from those of us (I include myself in this) who don't want to admit to vanity or shallowness. I'm not sure though.

For example, I've known some physically beautiful girls who were also cripplingly insecure and constantly put themselves down.

But what were their actual beliefs beneath that. Also maybe because they were insecure it led them to cultivate good looks over a period of years as compensation and now they have an eye for beauty.

I don't think you are taking this comment in entirely the way I mean it, but I do probably somewhat mean it the way you seem to be taking it.

I mean if you take two reasonably attractive girls, about even, from a young age, like 10, and one of them is very concerned with looks, and the other more with say book smarts. Which of them do you think will be better looking by the age of 25, and will that have been because of natural beauty, or from the cultivation of beauty? It's just like you said

I think that most people are reasonably attractive.

So to me it's all about not only what you do with it but for how long. Mental beliefs surely manifest themselves physically, so by being concerned with looks you actually become physically better looking.

[VinceG]

Is it important to be good looking?

It's all I live for.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

But what were their actual beliefs beneath that. Also maybe because they were insecure it led them to cultivate good looks over a period of years as compensation and now they have an eye for beauty.

I don't think you are taking this comment in entirely the way I mean it, but I do probably somewhat mean it the way you seem to be taking it.

I mean if you take two reasonably attractive girls, about even, from a young age, like 10, and one of them is very concerned with looks, and the other more with say book smarts. Which of them do you think will be better looking by the age of 25, and will that have been because of natural beauty, or from the cultivation of beauty? It's just like you said So to me it's all about not only what you do with it but for how long. Mental beliefs surely manifest themselves physically, so by being concerned with looks you actually become physically better looking.

Interesting. To what extent do you think that's self-selecting? By the time we're teenagers, we basically know whether or not we fit beauty ideals. So maybe the people who see no hope in that area turn to other things, while the people who do focus on it.

[BillyTheAdult]

I think it is 100% self selecting, the problem is that we aren't usually consciously aware of our decisions, or don't feel powerful enough to override decisions we are aware of but do not like. So by the time you are a teenager you may already be to the point that you are severely overweight or something, and you have formed a deeply ingrained belief "I am overweight" and as a result "I am unattractive." It's not that you were born unattractive it's that by that time you have already unconsciously not cultivated attractiveness. Also teenagers (and adults) tend to largely form their identities from social structure i.e. you believe what others tell you about yourself. So if others tell you yo are attractive you believe it and if they tell you you aren't you believe that too. Or you may even tell yourself because you are getting some payoff from it that you are not even consciously aware of.

As my beloved Dr. Hawkins would say "The human mind is incapable of telling truth from falsehood" so it doesn't take a lot to make a mind believe in something that's false.

[Lauxa]

I agree with you that generally people seem better looking the more I like them. I've had the experience several times where I thought someone was ugly initially and then when I got to know them I changed my mind -- and vice versa.

I have been told that I am good looking, and I will admit it is something I like to hear.

Also, I think a large part of being good looking is being healthy and fit, and yes, this also includes being thin. I'm not sure there are any "innate" good looks that could make a person look attractive at 300 pounds.

And I think teeth also matter, crooked or rotten teeth are a sign of poor health and/or low social status (mine are a bit crooked).

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

This is the rub. I really feel like looks shouldn't be important. I don't think that facial structure, body type, coloring, etc. tells you anything about a person except whatever is in their genes (and perhaps what's in their box of hair dye ). I'm actually wondering if I have some issue happening on this topic, because I feel rather unhappy when people insist that physical attractiveness is important.

I concluded the same thing many years ago.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

How important do you think it is to be good looking? I'm guessing by the way you described yourself that it isn't that important to you, but I'm not sure.

I like interesting faces. Not necessarily "good-looking", in the way, for instance, models are good-looking.

Interesting faces (and generally, interesting appearances) mean, to me, a face or appearance that oozes (or seems to ooze) a lot of personality, and in a non-verbal way, says a lot (or seems to say a lot) about who the person is, what his or her mood, character or background is.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I like interesting faces. Not necessarily "good-looking", in the way, for instance, models are good-looking.

Interesting faces (and generally, interesting appearances) mean, to me, a face or appearance that oozes (or seems to ooze) a lot of personality, and in a non-verbal way, says a lot (or seems to say a lot) about who the person is, what his or her mood, character or background is.

I'm the same.

I like it when a person has an interesting face, or something about their face that is interesting to me. Even if they are ugly, if they look interesting, then I will like them.

The person I am seeing right now has an interesting face, though I am not attracted to him sexually.

[Acting Like Godot]

I think that this man is, ummm, rather ugly. But his face is very interesting, nonetheless.

[Acting Like Godot]

A very, very interesting face.

[ZephyrusX]

Yes, but I'm not overly happy with why I care. I've been toying with the idea that we ought to change our physical appearances based on what we want, but then, there is always a nagging thought at the back of my head that I am actually doing this in order to live up to external standards of beauty.

I think it is more important to have the inner freedom to express my physical appearances in a way that makes me feel good. That does mean dressing up in a way that makes me feel sexy, but it also means just having fun, being creative and having a light hearted attitude about the whole thing.

I don't think I am quite there yet though. May be. I certainly haven't posted a clean shot of my face on here yet, but it isn't as if I'm going to pretend that I have a perfect face (or body for that matter). I really am as hairy as the cat (well may be not quite as hairy) and refuse to wax. But you see, that gives me every right to say, 'Not on the hairs of my chinny chin chin!' And everyone knows that it is sexy when someone rubs the hairs on their chin. Gender roles be damned

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness

- Why?

[Acting Like Godot]

[Acting Like Godot]

[cacheborn]

Initially yes, my unconscious attention goes to the attractive faces. But then, when the person speaks or does something that is not congruent to the image, it may lose the power. It's like one of those beauties in Miss World contests, they are spectacular till they open their mouth to say something.

ps : If I look at the personalities who impress me, I find that beauty is secondary. For instance, I was immensely impressed with Barack Obama when I saw his speeches. What he did or did not do later was quite unimpressive but I still think he is quite charismatic speaker. If you want tips on public speaking, watch him.

I don't know if Alanis Morissette is considered beautiful, I find her quite attractive, especially when she is singing.

One person who is good looking and I still find him impressive is Tom Cruise. I like his determination and the quintessential alpha-male persona.

[Acting Like Godot]

Ugly face with a lot of personality.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Yes, but I'm not overly happy with why I care. I've been toying with the idea that we ought to change our physical appearances based on what we want, but then, there is always a nagging thought at the back of my head that I am actually doing this in order to live up to external standards of beauty.

I think it is more important to have the inner freedom to express my physical appearances in a way that makes me feel good. That does mean dressing up in a way that makes me feel sexy, but it also means just having fun, being creative and having a light hearted attitude about the whole thing.

I don't think I am quite there yet though. May be. I certainly haven't posted a clean shot of my face on here yet, but it isn't as if I'm going to pretend that I have a perfect face (or body for that matter). I really am as hairy as the cat (well may be not quite as hairy) and refuse to wax. But you see, that gives me every right to say, 'Not on the hairs of my chinny chin chin!' And everyone knows that it is sexy when someone rubs the hairs on their chin. Gender roles be damned

LOL. I do tweeze my eyebrows... and my beard. My eyebrows are HUGE (srsly.), and I don't like how they look when they're not done. I still keep them fairly heavy, but... um... well, I could have been a CaterpillarWoman, too!

So, I understand about being hairy. And about expressing physical appearance in a way that's not normal -- I do a few things that aren't very common.


ALG, it seems like all of those examples are attractive people who had a good photographer (perhaps excepting the last one, but the only thing making him 'unattractive' is the heavy wrinkles). Or am I missing something?

[VinceG]

I think beauty is important, and that one needs to appreciate it. I think that everybody is beautiful in their own way. I am particularly attracted to more interesting types of beauty like the pictures ALG has been posting.

I don't really believe in ugliness. So it's hard for me to answer a question like "is beauty important to you?". Everyone's beautiful, what's different is people's capacities to recognize that.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I think beauty is important, and that one needs to appreciate it. I think that everybody is beautiful in their own way. I am particularly attracted to more interesting types of beauty like the pictures ALG has been posting.

I don't really believe in ugliness. So it's hard for me to answer a question like "is beauty important to you?". Everyone's beautiful, what's different is people's capacities to recognize that.

I don't quite believe in ugliness either, but I was wondering where beauty falls compared to other traits in people's personal value systems. Especially because I know that a lot of people DO believe in it!

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I don't quite believe in ugliness either, but I was wondering where beauty falls compared to other traits in people's personal value systems. Especially because I know that a lot of people DO believe in it!

I don't think you'll find such people very willing to part with that information, as the dynamic is largely subconscious.

[ZephyrusX]

I gave up on the tweezers. It is an never ending battle. I'll only tweeze the really long, black hairs (having dark hair isn't a bonus in this regard )

I have to admit though, there is a part of me that is rather attracted to the hair. Once in a while, I'll wake up, look into the mirror, and notice that there is this really freakishly long (I mean long!) black hair. And I sit there for a moment or two thinking, 'no! That couldn't possibly be a hair! *poke* Oh, my!'

What is up with that? If I didn't have to go out, I'd leave the freakishly long hairs in and see just how long they would grow. Measuring time!

Originally Posted by Criseyde

LOL. I do tweeze my eyebrows... and my beard. My eyebrows are HUGE (srsly.), and I don't like how they look when they're not done. I still keep them fairly heavy, but... um... well, I could have been a CaterpillarWoman, too!

So, I understand about being hairy. And about expressing physical appearance in a way that's not normal -- I do a few things that aren't very common.

[ZephyrusX]

Hoot! Alanis!

Originally Posted by cacheborn

I don't know if Alanis Morissette is considered beautiful, I find her quite attractive, especially when she is singing.

[atwinky]

sure beauty does help to meet people but in the end looks don't really matter we all have that but ugly friend that is very likeable. also I don't know why and it really bothers me but when ever I come into contact with a beautiful woman I just start getting really anxious haha its a bit weird really and I need to fix it because I work at Coles as a checkout chick so I am serving women a lot but I guess that's a good way to get over it

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Do you care about your level of physical attractiveness (innate -- I'm not talking about grooming etc)?

Not especially. I've always been attracted to a person for their mind (sense of humour, intelligence, ability to carry on a decent conversation, etc.). I certainly recognise very attractive people (men, particularly; I'm hardly immune to a "sexy fireman" calendar!), but as far as relationships (friendship, romantic, whatever) go, I'm not fussed. In fact, I, personally, have tended to be somewhat distrustful of very good looking men. In my unfortunate experience, they tend to be arrogant and they tend to be users. (I know this is not true of all good looking men; this is only my own experience.)

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Where is physical attractiveness on your list of desirable qualities?

Errr, pretty low, actually. I did once have a good female friend who was extremely attractive. We're talking beauty pageant level of attractive. Super photogenic, adorable petite but curvy figure, gorgeous face, lots of naturally wavy dark hair. Just really beautiful. The thing is, though, she was also highly intelligent, very kind and loving, and a genuinely nice person. Basically, she had so many great qualities, the things I like in a friend, that her looks were not an issue, which is, as far as I'm concerned, should always be the case in relationships.