Is it time for me to realize that I won't be going to an elite university in my life?

[Norbuster]

Before you even start to post on this thread I want you to read the bold, thanks.

1. Americans (USA) ONLY please. As I am an American myself and have done my primary and secondary education in the US I only want to hear from Americans as most Europeans would probably not be as aware of the system here to give me any advice. Now if you are European and know a lot about the American education system by having actually lived here, then by all means answer and help me.

2. Please NO "awww baby its okay, so you don't go to a top university, life will be alright", get what I am saying? I don't want to hear any of that, I just want to hear answers. I do not want to hear "oh so you don't go to a certain university, life will be okay".

3. An elite university does not have to be Harvard or Yale or Stanford or Columbia or Cornell, I consider the university of michigan elite as well as the university of north carolina at Chapel Hill.


Here is my story. I will make it as short as I can. Don't expect grammatical perfection and since the owner of this site went to Berkeley maybe he can advise me.

I am a 19 year old kid, a 2nd year college student at a university 5 minutes from my house, it is a commuter school (not a community college) and it is tier 2, outside of the state I live in no one has heard of it. How did I get here?

Age of 10 family came to the US. Age of 13 family moves to an impoverished district in the deep south but of course being immigrants themselves they had no idea how bad the district was. Made A's but was in classes in junior high full of gang members, drug dealers, and overall kids who distracted class so much to the point no one could really learn. I was one of the 10 kids out of 25 in my class that passed statewide tests and managed to move on to a decent high school but the second I got there I realized that we were supposed to know material which we never really covered in junior high.

Parents made life really bad for me at home and my high school was not that great either. I ended up getting a 2.8 GPA my first two years of high school. Junior year I made my parents back off and they brought a house (though I had to stay in the bad district, they wanted to save 10 minutes on commute so they decided not to send me to school in the better suburban district).

Pull a 4.0 my junior and senior year of high school but I knew nothing of college admissions, parents were restrictive and did not let me participate in extra curricular activities (were really loud about it and made sure I did not participate), and I made a 1950 SAT score. Counselor told me I could get into Yale with a 3.2 GPA and a 1950 SAT score but such was not the case as I learned the hard way.

So I end up letting my parents convince me to go to a commuter school 5 minutes from my house BUT they also pick my major for me (biochemistry). I finish my first year with a 2.85 because of C's in my science classes and I had my final in organic chemistry today. I think I may make a D in that class hence making my GPA drop from a 2.85 which is even worse.

I really want to see how it is like being at a university like Harvard or Yale for example but ask you can see, my academic performance took a significant road block. I am 19 currently and I want to know, have I permanently damaged my chance of living one of my life's goals?

[Criseyde]

Re: UNC-CH... are you in-state or out of state?

[russianrocket]

awww baby its okay, so you don't go to a top university, life will be alright

[rei]

No one can say whether you've lost any chance at an Ivy League education. It might depend on your major. Cornell, for example, has different admissions practices based on which college/school you plan to associate with. Some are more rigorous than others.

Admissions counselors also like moving essays where the applicant...say...uses a poor score to demonstrate how they grew significantly as a person.

All's not necessarily lost. You can still be competitive. I admire your drive to be successful academically.

Wait... you got your parents to let you go to commuter school? I take it you only applied to Yale? Maybe next time around try applying to many different schools, some Ivy and some second tier, and see if you get better results.

[Norbuster]

no I did not apply to yale, my parents FORCED me to go to a commuter school, read my story again, if it is an issue I can make cliff notes on my post for you

I applied to like 5 schools which were outside the top 40, they ended up being too expensive and parents said stay here for 2 years and then transfer but they made me major in their crap. =/!

[Norbuster]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Re: UNC-CH... are you in-state or out of state?

out of state sadly enough, state I live in shucks

we have UGA, Emory, and Georgia Tech

UGA = tough admissions standards over the year, only fun as an undergraduate

Emory = very very tough to get into, high admission standards, very expensive but the one I would stay in the state for if I could

Georgia Tech = engineering college mainly

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Norbuster

out of state sadly enough, state I live in shucks

we have UGA, Emory, and Georgia Tech

UGA = tough admissions standards over the year, only fun as an undergraduate

Emory = very very tough to get into, high admission standards, very expensive but the one I would stay in the state for if I could

Georgia Tech = engineering college mainly

You probably won't get into UNC from out of state with that SAT/GPA. I was an out of stater (but not a transfer student; I did all 4 years there), and I had a 4.something (can't remember) in high school and a 2320 on my SAT. My friend with just slightly lower scores was waitlisted.

If you are hell-bent on an "elite" university for undergrad, then probably your best bet is to drop out, do something really interesting, and try again in a few years. I'm serious.

If I were you, I'd change my major NOW (or just finish up gen eds if you don't know what to change it to, but drop the biochem), try to pull good grades next semester, perhaps re-take the SAT (I'm not sure if this is necessary as a transfer student), write the best essays ever, and transfer to UGA.

Keep doing well and go to an elite university for postgrad stuff.

But between us... it doesn't really matter.

[Norbuster]

ya UGA takes 2.8 GPAs and higher after 60 credit hours

how about grad school options?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Norbuster

ya UGA takes 2.8 GPAs and higher after 60 credit hours

how about grad school options?

Same things apply: good grades, an activity that pertains to what you want to study, build rapport with your professors so they'll write you great letters of recommendation, good GRE etc.

I'm not in grad school, though, that's just what everyone told me when I was thinking of going.

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

But between us... it doesn't really matter.

I've been out of college/grad school and very successful for a long time and I have to agree with this statement even though the OP doesn't really want to hear it.

Fairly quickly after graduating, saying that you went to a top tier college matters for about 15 seconds after saying where you went.

Good luck going to the school you feel you need to go to to accomplish your goals in life!

[russianrocket]

Am I the only one that missed what he actually wants to do with his life? As far as I can tell, his main life goal, is JUST to go to a top tier college.

[Agota]

I'm European, please don't shoot me!

1. I don't know about admissions for USA citizens, but have you considered applying to Cambridge or Oxford?

I know quite a few people in Cambridge and no offense to them, but admissions there doesn't seem to be anywhere as strict as Ivy League ones.

2. I was wondering is it a way for people who messed up in high school find another way than good grades to get into an elite university?

I don't know the systems, but assuming you'd take few gap years and do something really awesome, like create a business or charity organization or whatever (..and retake your SAT to get perfect scores), would you stand a chance?

This is definitely interesting to me.

[justhopingandsearching]

Is there a backdoor available to any of the schools you want to go to? Read this article to get what I mean.

Here's the most important details, if you don't feel like reading it:

Originally Posted by Personal MBA;Hacking Higer Education Part 2

Believe it or not, there’s a little-known back door to getting a Harvard degree: the Harvard Extension School. Designed as a continuing education program for adults, the Harvard Extension School is a degree-granting program within Harvard University designed to meet the needs of non-traditional students.

All you need to do to become a student at the Harvard Extension School is pay a course fee and show up. There’s no SAT or ACT requirement, no admissions process, and no up-front bureaucracy. Each class at the extension school costs approximately $1,000, and anyone can sign up. Many courses are offered both in-person and online.

If you’re able to complete 3 Extension School courses with a GPA of at least 2.5, you’ll be able to petition for acceptance to the degree program. The admissions criteria are straightforward: if you meet them, you’re in. Going through the Extension School is trial by fire: if you can prove that you’re up to the challenge by excelling in actual coursework, you’ll be accepted. In my opinion, that’s a much better approach than sweating bullets for 13 years fine-tuning your resume to beat hundreds of thousands of competing students in the standard Harvard admissions gauntlet.

[justhopingandsearching]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Am I the only one that missed what he actually wants to do with his life? As far as I can tell, his main life goal, is JUST to go to a top tier college.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to go to an ivy league school. The thing is to make sure s/he actually wants it for his/herself, and not someone else.

[AllTogetherNow]

Is it time for me to realize that I won't be going to an elite university in my life?

No. I'd say it's time for you to realize that you have MANY YEARS ahead of you to achieve this goal - just cause your first try didn't work, does not mean "it's all over" for the "rest of your life".

a little example that could perhaps support the above -- i bombed out of undergrad with mediocre grades; i dropped out & never graduated - which was a huge disappointment to my folks. I promised my dad i would finish school, although i had no actual idea of how i would do so.

fast forward 23 years -- i was working for a company who astonishingly offerred me an opportunity to put me through graduate school at a very good university, all expenses-paid, as part of a company program.

So even though 'mainstream' thinking says "you can''t qualify to attend graduate school without an undergrad degree" - I did it. I was 38 years old, and maintained a 3.6 GPA, all while working full-time - and got a graduate degree in IT. yet i never even finished college back when i was 19. to my way of thinking - it was because i stayed open to finding SOME way, ANY way, to make good on that promise i had made to my dad. even though there seemed to be no 'logical' evidence that it would happen, my mindset was the thing that kept me looking for a way.

So - you can indeed go back to school at a univ. you want - it doesn't have to be right now. I agree with the poster who said wait a few years, gain some life experience, and try again. There are ALL KINDS of ways to make this happen, and plenty of time to do it.

but - your own mindset will set the tone; you could try looking at the whole thing from a different perspective. Instead of dwelling on "i failed" - try thinking something like "I can do this and i WILL find a way".

You could do an exercise to change the direction of your thoughts - perhaps try to think of all kinds of different ideas for getting into a univ. you want.... no matter how ridiculous or silly they seem - and write them down. Hang your list on the wall where you must see it every day, and add to it every time you come up with another idea. This is an exercise to train your thoughts, to learn to 'dwell' on what's possible; to keep making your thoughts go in a direction that calls you to take action, to break the old pattern of falling back into thoughts that tell you to give up.

it also might be useful for you to learn how to assert yourself more effectively. I realize controlling parents are a very real thing - but it's also true that all kids must eventually assert themselves in order to grow, and to be able to grow up; you're not alone in this dynamic. imho it would be beneficial to work on improving your sense of self, focus on becoming stronger, and able to stand up for yourself; for what's important to YOU, for your own goals in life and the major you want - regardless of what parents try to make you do.

don't forget Thomas Edison 'failed' at making a lightbulb numerous times before he got one that actually worked. He tried thousands of filaments before he found the right one. so each try was a 'failure' - but that didn't stop the guy, he just kept going until he figured it out. in his mind, he KNEW he could do it, regardless of the circumstances he came up against numerous times.

so don't give up so easily. You can train your mind to look at life in a different way - to keep looking for what's possible instead of dwelling on 'what just happened'. There are plenty of possibilities out there for you to achieve this goal -- but first you must adopt the POV that it's possible. then you can actively seek them out, and make them happen!

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Norbuster

no I did not apply to yale, my parents FORCED me to go to a commuter school, read my story again, if it is an issue I can make cliff notes on my post for you

I applied to like 5 schools which were outside the top 40, they ended up being too expensive and parents said stay here for 2 years and then transfer but they made me major in their crap. =/!

This is your real problem, your freedom. Solve that then worry about school. Forcing yourself to learn crap you don't care about is wasting your life. Ivy league schools are the least of your true worries.

[psionyx]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

But between us... it doesn't really matter.

Personally, in my experience this is both true and not true.

I did my undergrad in physics at an Ivy League school, and despite a lot of blood, sweat, and tears was only able to manage slightly above a 3.0 GPA. Based on those results, I felt that my abilities were only mediocre and I stood little chance of succeeding once I'd graduated. However, I was soon to find out that insular competition at that level leads one to a very warped perspective. I eventually went to grad school at a State university on the west coast in physical oceanography - one of the best programs in the country. To my amazement I found that not only was I able to keep a 4.0 average, but my training from the undergrad physics program gave me a huge advantage over all the other students, who mostly struggled. This is not an exaggeration or a boast.

On the other hand, now that I'm 15 years into my career (which is a technical one) it's clear how little value the degree has. I have many brilliant colleagues whose skills vastly outshine my own, and who either have degrees from unknown universities, or no degrees at all. Interestingly the most brilliant guys are the ones with no degrees at all, because they were self taught and had the passion, drive, and raw talent needed to propel them into this business from a very young age. It's not the degree that makes one successful - though there are benefits, and occasionally it opens a door. In my experience, a talented and driven person will be successful whether they have a degree or not - because they are able to forge their own reality.

[tickyboy]

I think the overbearing parents are keeping you from achieving your goals of attending an ivy league school. I guess it depends on what you want to take? What are your life's goals? As a mid-late 20 something, I can already tell you there is WAY MORE to life outside of the 4ish years of post secondary schooling. Really, life starts after college. Having said that, it's not a bad goal to get great schooling, but do you need it?

[Brutha]

no I did not apply to yale, my parents FORCED me to go to a commuter school, read my story again, if it is an issue I can make cliff notes on my post for you

You are over 18. You can do whatever you want with your life.
If you allow your parents to dictate your path that's your free choice.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to go to an ivy league school. The thing is to make sure s/he actually wants it for his/herself, and not someone else.

Actually "going to an ivy league school" for yourself is still a lousy goal.
As an end in itself it's pretty boring.

If you want to go to an elite university the simplest route is to go. Rent a room near the university and show up to the lectures.
It's pretty straightforward.

Getting a degree is a separate question but if you want to go to an elite university for the actual education and social contacts you can just go.

In Germany having papers and degrees matters relatively more than the US. It's however still possible to do without.
A few weeks I walk with a friend into a top university and we a seminar of 10 people plus a professor how the world works in relation to the topic of the seminar.

I friend talked about how he went to various top US universities with the sitting in lectures without being formally enrolled method. Along with the other stuff my friend did he impressed the professor enough that she told him that he could enter the university without any formal enrollement procedere even through he had no formal qualitifcations.

If you are in a position where the professor wants that you stay at the university all the crap about formal qualifications doesn't really matter.

Of course if you are a boring average person who doesn't do much with their life besides studying, working and watching TV then you probably won't be in a position to impress anyone.

Instead of putting all the power in the hands of other people it's much better to go and build personal connections to people that matter and play hard to get.

For a moment let's imagine two guys:
Guy A went to get a degree in Harvard with a 3.4 GPA.

Guy B went to the MIT calculus class for fun without being enlisted. He also went to the introduction into psychology lecture and the genetics lecture because he likes those topics.
In his free time he spent 1 hour per day for two years with optimizing DIY kombucha bioengieering and breeding better kombucha cultures.
He leads an opensource online kombucha community.
That makes him one of the world experts into kombucha cultures and he appeared in a bunch of press publications.

Which one of those two guys is more interesting? Which one would you rather hire as an employer who needs a self driven employee for a very innovative project where there's no existing roadmap? The guy who did everything by the book or the guy who actually thought for himself and build an impressive project on his own?

There no one but yourself that prevents you from being guy B.

A lot is also about social skills. Having the guts to be outside your comfortzone pays off. It allows you to make important contacts.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Norbuster

no I did not apply to yale, my parents FORCED me to go to a commuter school, read my story again, if it is an issue I can make cliff notes on my post for you

I applied to like 5 schools which were outside the top 40, they ended up being too expensive and parents said stay here for 2 years and then transfer but they made me major in their crap. =/!

That part of my post was based on this:

Counselor told me I could get into Yale with a 3.2 GPA and a 1950 SAT score but such was not the case as I learned the hard way.

You were perhaps not as clear as you think?? That sounds a bit like you DID apply to Yale and didn't get in. As for the cliff notes comment... it isn't me you're mad at, and using sarcasm isn't going to make me want to help you.

It's starting to sound like most of the problem here is your feelings about your parents, maybe resenting the way they are handling the situation, maybe resenting that you agreed to go to community college. You agreed to go. They talked you into it maybe, but it isn't fair to put the responsibility on your parents if you aren't happy with the results here. This is your life, your education, your grades. If you don't like your major, you can try switching to something you're passionate about to pull up your GPA. Blaming your parents for the grades isn't going to end up very productive here because that isn't going to fix anything. If you don't like the path your parents laid out for you, then you can take steps to change it. This is on you, though, not on them, as you're the one who will have to take action whether they show support or not.

If you are blaming your parents for your grades because you need to be smart, that's not the only choice here. You can also consider that college is a big adjustment and everyone goes through that at their own pace. You can also consider that sometimes students don't learn good study habits until they get through a bad semester. You can also consider that grades don't necessarily measure intelligence.

If parents hold the almost-adult child close, want the child nearby, shelter the child, don't back off as the child becomes more independent, then the child is charged with the task of creating that independence. Google launching. And maybe process your emotions (like anger?) about your parents a bit in case that will help you make clearer decisions for this phase of your life. It's okay to be mad about this you know. It's also okay to admit you're upset about things.

[rei]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

This is your real problem, your freedom. Solve that then worry about school. Forcing yourself to learn crap you don't care about is wasting your life. Ivy league schools are the least of your true worries.

OP has a level of freedom, though. Parents said the goal was too expensive - so OP can apply anyway, and ask for an assistantship. Or apply and ask for work/study. Or apply and work as a server in a bar somewhere. If parents pay then they have a say in your choices, but if you go on your own financial steam then they can't say squat.

[Norbuster]

*looks up*

WHEW!


Alright, thanks for the help and concern but first and foremost I want to get something out of the way, Rei, I did not in any way insult you. I do not know how you can possibly take my post as an insult because it was not meant to be in any way possible.

As for my goal, I want to go into banking and finance and work on wall street, hopefully for a firm like Goldman Sachs (ya that is stretching it).

I did not apply to Yale, other students from another county had a word with me and showed me the statistics and I did not apply.

As for taking time off, I have really been thinking about that. Next semester if I do not excel I will take time off and everything, I am going to attack organic with a tutor if I can and everything.

I know I am a free willed kid now but the past has really screwed me up. And for those saying I had my own choice, believe me, I really did not, with my parents I don't have my own choice, I really don't.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Norbuster

*looks up*

WHEW!


Alright, thanks for the help and concern but first and foremost I want to get something out of the way, Rei, I did not in any way insult you. I do not know how you can possibly take my post as an insult because it was not meant to be in any way possible.

Yeah, I saw your comment to Rei as rude too. Sarcasm indeed.

[Brutha]

As for my goal, I want to go into banking and finance and work on wall street, hopefully for a firm like Goldman Sachs (ya that is stretching it).

Why?

[justhopingandsearching]

Originally Posted by Brutha

If you want to go to an elite university the simplest route is to go. Rent a room near the university and show up to the lectures.
It's pretty straightforward.

I don't know if they allow this for all universities because in my limited experience if you're not on the class roster (as in you paid for the class), the professor will tell you to leave.

Originally Posted by Brutha

Which one of those two guys is more interesting? Which one would you rather hire as an employer who needs a self driven employee for a very innovative project where there's no existing roadmap? The guy who did everything by the book or the guy who actually thought for himself and build an impressive project on his own?

I get what you're saying, but going to college/university doesn't necessarily mean you're not driven. Deciding that you want to go to an elite university, and then doing just that sounds like a driven person to me. My point was simply that the thread starter should probably sit down and question why s/he wants to go an elite university.

[MightySunTzu]

Originally Posted by Norbuster

no I did not apply to yale, my parents FORCED me to go to a commuter school, read my story again, if it is an issue I can make cliff notes on my post for you

Originally Posted by Norbuster

... Rei, I did not in any way insult you. I do not know how you can possibly take my post as an insult because it was not meant to be in any way possible.

Wait... what?

[Ceoarob]

too confusing.

My choice is University of Georgia.

[VinceG]

Harvard has it's Extension school, which offers a similar education to its flagship brand at a much more affordable rate. Check it out here:
Continuing Education in Boston : Harvard Extension School

Going to an Ivy League school really is all about class. It wouldn't be worth going if it were easy to get in for those without the required pedigree.

One well-kept secret is that Steve Jobs stopped paying tuition and audited the classes he wanted to take for free. He took that free education and built Apple with it. It worked out that the free education prepared him a lot more for starting a company because he audited the classes he wanted rather than the ones that worked towards a worthless degree program. So he got to take classes like calligraphy he never would have otherwise. His calligraphy class was the reason Apple computers have great typography, while all the other offerings suck out of the box.

[Brutha]

I don't know if they allow this for all universities because in my limited experience if you're not on the class roster (as in you paid for the class), the professor will tell you to leave.

It depends a bit on the class size. For small courses that might be possible. For bigger courses nobody really notices when you aren't on the class roster.

But it's also okay when a professor tells you to leave. Going to places where you don't really belong and have a chance to get socially rejected is good training.

It's a skill that very valuable.

If you are at a cocktail party where you don't really belong and tell stories of your successful experiences at places where you don't really belong you get interesting.
If people can't really compute in their head how you get where you are it impresses them.

If you get people who make hiring decision interested in yourself it's easy to get a job.
Of course it helps to be able to have some evidence that you actually did the things you are talking about. In the case of the DIY Kombucha example, the website would serve as evidence.

I get what you're saying, but going to college/university doesn't necessarily mean you're not driven.

That's true. Getting a degree at a prestigous university isn't a bad choice.
But it isn't the only choice.

You however should not underestimate that having an interesting story to tell about yourself becomes more and more important while having a piece of paper becomes less and less important.

Even if you go the degree route you probably should still spent a bit of time at places where you don't belong to build social skills. You also spend time on doing something interesting.

Two weeks ago I made the experience of standing together with a girl at a table at a conference. Two other people came and asked how we know each other. She said: "He just got to now me, I know him from TV."
That kind of social proof feels really nice. It all comes from spending less than a year of serious involvement in a topic.
It's just that I picked a topic without any competition while a lot of other choose to walk paths that are really crowded.

Almost nobody does any genuine work but most people just go along the path that has been layed out by society.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by rei

OP has a level of freedom, though. Parents said the goal was too expensive - so OP can apply anyway, and ask for an assistantship. Or apply and ask for work/study. Or apply and work as a server in a bar somewhere. If parents pay then they have a say in your choices, but if you go on your own financial steam then they can't say squat.

Yep...this situation is a great catalyst for growth. To solve it requires a person to be an individual in a world that punishes individuals.