Can you change the basics of how your mind works?

[The Backward OX]

Can you change the basics of how your mind works?


I’m not particularly happy with my *inborn* anti-social attitude.

I’m interested in finding out if it can be changed.

First, the way I am:

I don’t comprehend the concept of friendship. I see people only in terms of how they can be useful to me, of what they can do for me. For example, as a heterosexual male, my only real interest in women IRL is as sexual partners. And my only real interest in men IRL is in how “what they’re good at, work-wise” might benefit me.

Some of the time I can, and do, put on an act. Some people – the ones who don’t really know me - probably think I’m a friendly type. But inside, where I live, there’s no emotional closeness or tender feelings or any of that other stuff by which friendship is defined. Remember, my friendliness is only an act.

I’ve had a long lifetime of missing out on this thing called friendship. Now, I’d like to experience it before I go. So, does anyone have any ideas on how I might go about re-scrambling my mind to make it happen?

[absentmindfulness]

You're missing out on friendship because you're too focused on yourself. There are people around you with feelings, desires, hopes and dreams. If you can help them realize those, you will have friends. Changing your attitudes towards other people is going to take a lot of commitment though, so make sure you're ready for that. If you have vision and perseverance, you can make it happen.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by absentmindfulness

There are people around you with feelings, desires, hopes and dreams. If you can help them realize those, you will have friends.

I know that. That wasn't my question.

[absentmindfulness]

I read your question. The point I'm making is that you probably need to work on your empathy; that was just a way to illustrate that point. Perhaps I should have been more clear. You can change the mechanics of your mind, but it will require you to shift from an inward focus to an outward one. You will have to start feeling the emotions of other people. You will have to make some sacrifices and put other people's interests before your own. Real friendship is a selfless act.

As far as some specific practices are concerned, try something simple like going around and paying people a genuine compliment or doing something kind without expecting anything in return. Or ask somebody out to do something you know that they'd love. Just possibilities.

[Philemon]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Can you change the basics of how your mind works?


I’m not particularly happy with my *inborn* anti-social attitude.

I’m interested in finding out if it can be changed.

First, the way I am:

I don’t comprehend the concept of friendship. I see people only in terms of how they can be useful to me, of what they can do for me. For example, as a heterosexual male, my only real interest in women IRL is as sexual partners. And my only real interest in men IRL is in how “what they’re good at, work-wise” might benefit me.

Some of the time I can, and do, put on an act. Some people – the ones who don’t really know me - probably think I’m a friendly type. But inside, where I live, there’s no emotional closeness or tender feelings or any of that other stuff by which friendship is defined. Remember, my friendliness is only an act.

I’ve had a long lifetime of missing out on this thing called friendship. Now, I’d like to experience it before I go. So, does anyone have any ideas on how I might go about re-scrambling my mind to make it happen?

Here's my simplest, most concise answer:

Rewrite "Here's the way I am"

[Philemon]

Thoughts accumulate and form beliefs. Beliefs accumulate and form perceptions. Perceptions create "truth" and "reality."

Thoughts---> Beliefs---> Perceptions ---> Truth/Reality


In this linear sense, if you want to change the reality, you need to change the thoughts first. Thoughts are shaped by the way we talk to ourselves. Self-Talk. Change the self-talk, change the reality.

Start writing a new story instead of the one you're used to telling yourself.

[Agota]

Maybe it would be easier for you to comprehend the concept of friendship if you'd see it as means to meet your emotional needs and helping another person to meet his/her emotional needs in exchange?

I mean, I bet this sounds cold hearted, but that's what human relationships are about, since all the interactions we consciously choose help us meet some of our needs in one way, or another.

The interesting thing for me in your post was your emotional needs. I mean, do you have the typical emotional needs when it comes to friends or women and you just don't know how to meet them or you don't have those needs and you're simply interesting in friendships only because everyone says it's awesome?

Do you have an actual need for a human connection, like do you want to have someone to talk to, someone who can understand you, someone who accepts you as who you are? These are pretty much universal when it comes to human relationships.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by absentmindfulness

The point I'm making is that you probably need to work on your empathy;

That, I think, is where my problem lies. I didn’t mention I have Asperger’s Syndrome, and lack of empathy is one of the identifiers. Maybe I'm one for the "too hard" basket.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Agota

Maybe it would be easier for you to comprehend the concept of friendship if you'd see it as means to meet your emotional needs and helping another person to meet his/her emotional needs in exchange?

I mean, I bet this sounds cold hearted, but that's what human relationships are about, since all the interactions we consciously choose help us meet some of our needs in one way, or another.

The interesting thing for me in your post was your emotional needs. I mean, do you have the typical emotional needs when it comes to friends or women and you just don't know how to meet them or you don't have those needs and you're simply interesting in friendships only because everyone says it's awesome?

Do you have an actual need for a human connection, like do you want to have someone to talk to, someone who can understand you, someone who accepts you as who you are? These are pretty much universal when it comes to human relationships.

See the post above.

[James81]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

I’ve had a long lifetime of missing out on this thing called friendship. Now, I’d like to experience it before I go. So, does anyone have any ideas on how I might go about re-scrambling my mind to make it happen?

Yes, you stop accepting other people's assessments of your behavior and figure out what the *real* purpose of your behavior is. Interesting enough, we do this so often that we don't even realize it. It's a presupposition that we just naturally accept (that is, other people's assessments of us).

For example, in your post you said this:

I’m not particularly happy with my *inborn* anti-social attitude.

You label your attitude as "anti-social." But that, to me, just sounds like what someone outside of your situation might label your attitude as. Internally, your "anti-social" attitude is actually serving you a positive purpose OR it's fueling some other, unknown issue.

What is your take on life, on friendship, and on relationships from YOUR perspective? Are you really "anti-social" or is there another purpose that this behavior is serving?

[bodi]

Ox,

Psycho-Cybernetics, by Maxwell Maltz.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

I’ve had a long lifetime of missing out on this thing called friendship. Now, I’d like to experience it before I go.

For what purpose? What will experiencing this thing called friendship provide for you?

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

That, I think, is where my problem lies. I didn’t mention I have Asperger’s Syndrome, and lack of empathy is one of the identifiers. Maybe I'm one for the "too hard" basket.

Then what you are is exceptionally intelligent.

The appraisal you opened this thread with is spot on. You witness clearly and honestly. You're not in any denial. You know you're cold.

And you sound like you're seeking how to be warm? Why???? Because deep down inside you know you're a warm being.

So the question is how to be yourself. To see that, you have to see what is BLOCKING your warmth. Call that warmth you life energy and call the "block" something that is consuming that energy so that you don't have it to share.

That block is you ever present mind that can't figure out why the world around you and the mind inside you is so confused. Figure out the confusion and it disappears. A clear whole mind rests and no longer sucks up your energy to live. That energy becomes your compassion for self and others automatically.

The confusion is pimarily rooted in culture and religion. You've taken on habitual thinking about life and about who you are and the bullcrap truth detector inside you is crying foul in a million different ways but the habitual thoughts in your mind keep creating reactions in your mind that become actions of greed.

The greed is for happiness because in happiness this mental tension is lifted. Your mind knows that sex from a woman and usefulness from a "friend" reduces tension so these people get used by you, not loved by you. They can't be loved until you're free of this confusion. Until to take back your identity from your mind that has defined you as your ego, you can' love anyone or yourself.

Theres nothing wrong with you that "awareness" can't fix. Be happy you "have" Asperbergers because that high intelligence is your path out of ego. You're too bright to live in this circus called society happily. You're not handicapped but exceptionally capable in ways that society canlt recognize. Not knowing this about you and society is part of your mental confusion thats keeps you wrapped up in yourself and unloving.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Angela

For what purpose? What will experiencing this thing called friendship provide for you?

It will satisfy my curiosity - a trait that perhaps you don't have.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

Then what you are is exceptionally intelligent.

The appraisal you opened this thread with is spot on. You witness clearly and honestly. You're not in any denial. You know you're cold.

And you sound like you're seeking how to be warm? Why???? Because deep down inside you know you're a warm being.

So the question is how to be yourself. To see that, you have to see what is BLOCKING your warmth. Call that warmth you life energy and call the "block" something that is consuming that energy so that you don't have it to share.

That block is you ever present mind that can't figure out why the world around you and the mind inside you is so confused. Figure out the confusion and it disappears. A clear whole mind rests and no longer sucks up your energy to live. That energy becomes your compassion for self and others automatically.

The confusion is pimarily rooted in culture and religion. You've taken on habitual thinking about life and about who you are and the bullcrap truth detector inside you is crying foul in a million different ways but the habitual thoughts in your mind keep creating reactions in your mind that become actions of greed.

The greed is for happiness because in happiness this mental tension is lifted. Your mind knows that sex from a woman and usefulness from a "friend" reduces tension so these people get used by you, not loved by you. They can't be loved until you're free of this confusion. Until to take back your identity from your mind that has defined you as your ego, you can' love anyone or yourself.

Theres nothing wrong with you that "awareness" can't fix. Be happy you "have" Asperbergers because that high intelligence is your path out of ego. You're too bright to live in this circus called society happily. You're not handicapped but exceptionally capable in ways that society canlt recognize. Not knowing this about you and society is part of your mental confusion thats keeps you wrapped up in yourself and unloving.

Posts like this are what give the internet a bad name.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

. Posts like this are what give the internet a bad name.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

I’ve had a long lifetimeof missing out on this thing called friendship. Now, I’d like to experience it before I go. So, does anyone have any ideas on how I might go about re-scrambling my mind to make it happen?

You already posted the source of your problem....you know your mind is "scrambled". I called that "confusion".

You know the problem is "mental". You're not blaming anyone else for your issue. That is highly intelligent....most people would not take responsibility for their own happiness. You are way way ahead of this game.

The exception may be that you blame Aspergers for your troubles? If you do then you're not taking personal responsibility as blame is still there. I lived this. I am self-diagnosed ADHD and before I had that to blame, I blamed people. I was happy not to blame people anymore because with the diagnosis, I felt I had an answer. Then I dropped into a pit of depression thinking I was handicapped for life. Then I realized that all I needed for happiness was to assert myself, living according to my talents and longings and not according to society. And since then I've been steadfastly loving of people, of life and of myself.

The solution has eluded you because the logic that has come from your mind, a scrambled mind that can't see that solution is to unscramble, not re-scramble....that logic sounds perfectly rational....your mind doesn't know that you love when your mind is not present, when theres nothing going on inside you, when there isn't a problem you are facing. When you are relaxed, you are love.

Your question addresses manifestations of your problem, but not the root of it. The root is that you don't know who you are. You don't know that you are not your thoughts. You miss that you're the one wondering how to create the bridge from your self-absorption, which you can see hurts you, to love.

That's the source of the confusion and multiplied by all the cultural half truths that increased the confusion. On top of that, you're exceptionally bright in a world that labels you to be defective, requiring treatment for Aspergers. It's the same social mentality that thought a loving guy like Jesus or Socrates should be executed and not revered. You're not handicapped except to fail to see the big picture.

There's a massive paradox here. You see a gap in your understanding. Your synopsis was outstanding in your opening post. Please stay open to the idea that you can't see the solution because what seems logical isn't matching the absurdity I'm preaching. No, your problem is absurd. You know you're a loving guy otherwise you wouldn't be seeking a solution to your problem of being cold and calculating. Thats absurd. A loving person that is not loving is absurd. But logic can't see this. It finds superficial associations to explain mysteries which usually means blaming other people, but with Aspergers, you can blame that. Blaming is the problem.

When you see that the problem is that living in your logic is stopping you from loving from your heart, your life will flip right side up. Remove the confusion, dont rescramble it. It's a paradox.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

It will satisfy my curiosity - a trait that perhaps you don't have.

This sounds hostile to me, like you are saying that my asking questions about your purpose and motivation indicate a lack on my part that you want to chastise or dismiss me for. Did you mean for it to come across that way?

(Determining the purpose and motivation is a key, I've found, in getting desired results, especially ones where you'd like to change your strategy.)

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Angela

This sounds hostile to me, like you are saying that my asking questions about your purpose and motivation indicate a lack on my part that you want to chastise or dismiss me for. Did you mean for it to come across that way?

(Determining the purpose and motivation is a key, I've found, in getting desired results, especially ones where you'd like to change your strategy.)

I'm about the most un-hostile person you could wish to meet. Perhaps you missed the key word "perhaps".

[Angela]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

I'm about the most un-hostile person you could wish to meet. Perhaps you missed the key word "perhaps".

I think it's actually the use of the word "perhaps" that had it occurring as hostile - as it does here, again, can you see that from my perspective?

The word itself acts as a suggester - suggesting that I'm lacking curiosity or reading comprehension, and just leaving that lie flat there, without checking it out with me, which lands on me as being pretty actively unfriendly. If you had left it at, "It would satisfy my curiosity," that would have occurred for me as a neutral answer, and if you had said something that communicated to me that you were grateful that I participated in your thread, or were curious about why I asked, or expressed some acknowledgement or concern for my response, or something that indicated you were just generally happy to have me around, it would have occurred as a friendly response.

I believe you can shift how your mind works so that you can experience this thing called Friendship, if you're willing to. Are you willing to? And if so, with whom? These forums a great place to practice such stuff.

[NursingGirl]

My daughter is 17 years old and has Asperger's. She is so smart (engineering internships, early into college, natl technical honor society, etc) and she is so....well....cold. I love her but I can't relate to her. Everything she does has a selfish purpose and she's "friendly" as long as she is in pursuit but once she achieves her goal, she goes cold again. Her thinking is logical at all costs. She has never had friends. She is beautiful but doesn't seem to know it and what it means to the rest of the world. I can't begin to comprehend living in that way.

I'm sure my post is not helping you in the way you want but reading your responses was just so familiar to me that I had to tell you.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by NursingGirl

My daughter is 17 years old and has Asperger's. She is so smart (engineering internships, early into college, natl technical honor society, etc) and she is so....well....cold. I love her but I can't relate to her. Everything she does has a selfish purpose and she's "friendly" as long as she is in pursuit but once she achieves her goal, she goes cold again. Her thinking is logical at all costs. She has never had friends. She is beautiful but doesn't seem to know it and what it means to the rest of the world. I can't begin to comprehend living in that way.

I'm sure my post is not helping you in the way you want but reading your responses was just so familiar to me that I had to tell you.

What you described is relatively universal...this is a cold selfish world. She may be colder and more selfish.

The logical living creates the coldness, not Aspergers. The society trained her to live from logic and did it's job really well.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think it's actually the use of the word "perhaps" that had it occurring as hostile - as it does here, again, can you see that from my perspective?

The word itself acts as a suggester - suggesting that I'm lacking curiosity or reading comprehension, and just leaving that lie flat there, without checking it out with me, which lands on me as being pretty actively unfriendly. If you had left it at, "It would satisfy my curiosity," that would have occurred for me as a neutral answer, and if you had said something that communicated to me that you were grateful that I participated in your thread, or were curious about why I asked, or expressed some acknowledgement or concern for my response, or something that indicated you were just generally happy to have me around, it would have occurred as a friendly response.

I believe you can shift how your mind works so that you can experience this thing called Friendship, if you're willing to. Are you willing to? And if so, with whom? These forums a great place to practice such stuff.

Well there you go. Diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks. I could have done all you said in your second paragraph, except for my inborn laziness. One line had to suffice. To me, “perhaps” is an either-or word. Perhaps you lack curiosity, perhaps you don’t. Perhaps we should all learn French, and avoid the confusion brought on by English. Or perhaps we shouldn’t.

And as it happens I do have one or two "friends" on another website. I just don't "feel" anything much about electronic entities; however I believe "feeling" is a necessary component of friendship - a characteristic I "perhaps" lack.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Well there you go. Diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks. I could have done all you said in your second paragraph, except for my inborn laziness. One line had to suffice. To me, “perhaps” is an either-or word. Perhaps you lack curiosity, perhaps you don’t. Perhaps we should all learn French, and avoid the confusion brought on by English. Or perhaps we shouldn’t.

And as it happens I do have one or two "friends" on another website. I just don't "feel" anything much about electronic entities; however I believe "feeling" is a necessary component of friendship - a characteristic I "perhaps" lack.

A quote about "perhaps"

Truth is vast – simple but vast, as vast as the sky. The whole universe contains it, and the universe is unlimited, infinite. How can you conceive of the whole truth? How can you have the absolute truth in your hands? But that is how the ego functions.

The ego is very tricky. The moment you start feeling something true, the ego immediately jumps in and says, “Yes, this is the absolute truth.” It has closed your mind: now no more truth will be available. And the moment you assert, “This is absolute,” you have falsified it.


A man of truth is always relative.

If you had asked Mahavira, “Is there a God?” he would have said, “Yes – but that is my first statement. The second, no; that is my second statement. And the third, yes and no both; that is my third statement.” And he would make seven statements, and each statement would start with “perhaps”: perhaps yes, perhaps no, perhaps both, perhaps both not, and so on, so forth. Sevenfold logic!

What Mahavira did in the world of religion, Albert Einstein did in the world of physics: the theory of relativity. These two names are very important, their contribution is great.

Jainism could not spread for a single reason: because you cannot create a religion on the base of “perhaps.” People want absolute truths, people want to be fanatics, people want to be believers. They want to depend on somebody, they want somebody authoritative. Now the moment you say perhaps, they become disinterested in you. Their mind says, “This man does not know; otherwise why should he say perhaps? If he knows, he knows; if he does not know, he does not know. What place is there for perhaps?”

But Mahavira will not say yes or no, because if you say yes it becomes absolute, if you say no it becomes absolute. The “perhaps” is always there. Why? – not because he does not know but because he knows, hence the “perhaps.”

Never use the word absolute – avoid it. It has been a calamity in the past; in the future we have to avoid it. Use perhaps more.

Your statement would have been closer to the truth if you had said, “Perhaps there is a connection between ego and no.” Of course it would not have sounded so strong; perhaps makes it very diluted. With absolute it is more allopathic; with perhaps it becomes homeopathic, very dilute. With perhaps it can appeal only to people who understand. With absolute it is very appealing to fools, stupids, mediocres, the insane, pathological… It is very appealing!

Einstein ? Mahavira ? Absolute? ? Osho Online Library

[Angela]

Ok. Good luck.

[lifetimelearner]

some researchers say that the brain scans of someone with Asperger's
show that some parts of the brain don’t light up in the usual way
especially when it comes to humor and social interaction

[NursingGirl]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

some researchers say that the brain scans of someone with Asperger's
show that some parts of the brain don’t light up in the usual way
especially when it comes to humor and social interaction

I totally believe this. My daughter has such a flat affect and seems to view communication as a means to an end with no emotional connection (just like the OP). Even though I know that most young people act entitled in this generation of instant gratification and rejection of authority, my daughter is still unique in ways that other young people are not. She has never had friends except online, never attended a high school football game or dance or dated. She is odd. I love her but she is odd. I can't seem to connect with her like I do with other people. Now if she NEEDS me or WANTS something, then she will communicate. I can't explain it really any better than that.

[NursingGirl]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

What you described is relatively universal...this is a cold selfish world. She may be colder and more selfish.

The logical living creates the coldness, not Aspergers. The society trained her to live from logic and did it's job really well.

Yes, to some extent, this is true. She definitely has an entitled attitude. We were texting one day (we text even though we live in the same house, lol) and it was somewhat of a deep conversation for the two of us to be having and it was initiated by her. I forget what she was trying to "get" from me, but I was explaining that I love her (blah, blah, blah- that's what it sounds like to her) and she replied that I had to love her and take care of her because it is my job and she didn't choose to be here and I have a responsibility. I just felt so warm and cozy inside, lol. Basically, SHE does not have a responsibility to ME. Our relationship is nothing more than me being her Mom because I have to and she owes me nothing for it. I have told her before that she doesn't have to say EVERYTHING that pops into her mind. It is a good idea to examine it for harshness first. Oh well. She will be entering the school of hard knocks and experience soon because next year, she will be living on college campus and she will find out how wonderful to her I was/am.

[jayenn]

I'm sorry but if your situation is truly as you say it is I don't believe that it is possible for you to "scramble" your mind in such a way that you would suddenly have compassionate feelings towards others. However, I don't expect this to be such a letdown to you as the only reason you felt the desire to experience friendship/compassion is that you've heard that it is a rewarding experience and you are curious. If you want rewarding experiences that make you feel good why bother trying to attain something as unrewarding for you as friendship? Stick to eating, sleeping, having sex, and whatever else makes you feel good because even if you were able to achieve a strong friendship with someone it wouldnt have meaning to you or make you happy.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by jayenn

I'm sorry but if your situation is truly as you say it is I don't believe that it is possible for you to "scramble" your mind in such a way that you would suddenly have compassionate feelings towards others. However, I don't expect this to be such a letdown to you as the only reason you felt the desire to experience friendship/compassion is that you've heard that it is a rewarding experience and you are curious. If you want rewarding experiences that make you feel good why bother trying to attain something as unrewarding for you as friendship? Stick to eating, sleeping, having sex, and whatever else makes you feel good because even if you were able to achieve a strong friendship with someone it wouldnt have meaning to you or make you happy.

Good point.

[reekah]

I think the OP demonstrates plenty of autistic symptoms in this thread. He should speak with a psychologist, since IMO most of his issues stem from his condition.