I can't appreciate men for being men

[Gregooooo]

Originally Posted by supertom

and what were men put on Earth to do

To work and bring home the goods

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by Gregooooo

You should not have to try to respect men. Women are put on this earth to respect and cherish men. It should came naturally.

Please say you meant to say 'cherish' on both sides? ehhh....

[Curious cat]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

Thank you. I can't believe no one pointed this out sooner.

I totally got the vibe that you were sending your energy to doggylady when i read your earlier posts ... But didn't want to 'out' you in case you got embarassed

[Curious cat]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

what i want is to know how to appreciate my male partners better, relate to them better and learn to love them better.

I think as long as you are willing to try and appreciate your partner, you will get there. If there is a connection between you and your potential partner, i believe appreciation and mutual respect will come naturally as you spend more time with each other and get to know each other better.

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by Curious cat

I totally got the vibe that you were sending your energy to doggylady when i read your earlier posts ... But didn't want to 'out' you in case you got embarassed

what?

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

Have you ever been with a man like that. I am a bit of a mix but would definitely have more feminine energy than a lot of guys would be comfortable with. Probably enough to put some women off. I understand where you feel like the physical attraction isn't there right off so you don't ever take further. I mean I get it. I don't have women who just flip over me right off all the time (although on occasion) but I have had women I've known over long periods confess their feelings to me numerous times. I think thats how it is for men like that. You may not like them right off because maybe you cant picture them in the manly roles that turn you on, but to be honest in my experience I have cultivated those values genuinely than a macho guy. When the rubber meets the road I have more of the manly qualities than a macho type man has, I just don't make a big show of it. Plus I read an article recently where more manly dominating type men are less likely to give a woman an orgasm or a fulfilling sex life as well.

The thing is with a guy like me you have to take a chance and get to know me, it's more work and more emotional risk.

more work more emotional risks?

[MessyJenny]

Originally Posted by Gregooooo

I don’t normally post on these forums but I view them from time to time and I wanted to make a few posts. The OP is a lesbian. I don’t want to offend you doggylady but any woman that doesn’t like men or has an extreme hatred for them is and it’s time for her and some of the other women on this thread to face the facts.

This post

And this post should be removed from this forum. They are offensive to men and I was offended when I read them. If these posts were about women it would be different.

Offensive to men???

I won't talk about what my husband did to me if it is going to offend you on this thread.

You got your account banned anyway so it looks like you were a troll.

[reflections]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

I can't appreciate men as men.

i can't appreciate maleness.

but i'm not lesbian. i'm straight woman. I have male friends. I have had boyfriends.

just that i can't "gush" about men being men.

really, what's so great about men?

tell me.

I need to learn to appreciate men on a different level. this probably explains why i have difficulty in attracting relationships into my life.

If you don't see any thing to appreciate in us men then don't. Let yourself see things as you see them. It doesn't mean that you're necessarily right or wrong about your views and I don't think that's the point but it is how things are for you so in my view if it is not detrimental to your quality of life then let your feelings be as they are.

For myself if I have a true friend of either sex then it is clear that there is value there and I appreciate value. Now I may not necessarily define their values as either feminine or masculine but I don't need to - I just appreciate the person for having value.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

more work more emotional risks?

I' don't really feel up to making a long post right now, but I don't want to leave this unanswered either. So the long and short of it is. like I said, I probably wouldn't "hook" a woman right away, so there is the perceived emotional risk right away of having to put time and energy into something that is not a sure thing. More of a "loss" if it doesn't work out. I think there is this perception of men who posses some feminine energy, and it is easier just to stereotype them and cast them aside than to take a chance and find out.

It is easier to just keep doing what you've always done because it is familiar. But I don't know, I don't if any thing like this actually applies to you. When I look back over your posts there is not enough for me to really make this conclusion. You say you have a hard time attracting relationships. You don't like men with feminine energy but from the few specifics you give it doesn't seem like you like anything about typical "manly" men either. All I know is there sure seem to be a lot of threads recently about disappointment with relationships coming from both sides of the aisle. It really seems like that crappy experiences with immature people are making lots of men and women scared to take anymore chances on relationships at all which is preventing smart, mature adults from enjoying each others company. Feeling like one of those people myself, it's just a really sad thing to see.

[TheLifeQuaker]

I'm ignoring everything else. I just wanted to say, I enjoyed seeing the movement from the OP to when you wrote up a small list of what you had realized for yourself through trying to find things to appreciate about men, DoggyLady. I'm not sure why subsequent posts have seemed to ignore it.

I just wanted to congratulate you on your improvement heading towards where you want to be, and I'm sure if you continue how you are on the topic it will turn out wonderfully.

I appreciate seeing someone strong enough to acknowledge an issue they have to themselves...and you went so far as to acknowledge it to other people.

I appreciating seeing you choose love instead of hate.

Who you want to be says more about who you are than who you are.

[MariconesUnited]

I see what you're saying about perceived risk Billy. I think people open themselves up to that risk when they become attached to a particular outcome. If one is ok with finding a friend, an enemy, an acquaintance or just someone to talk to from time to time instead of being fixated on this idea of finding a lover or a boyfriend/girlfriend...Then one can be more at peace. I think it's a more powerful inner place to work from.

The problem with a lot of people, and I don't know if this applies to you or not DoggyLady, is that they look for someone to ''complete'' them. We are all complete already. Don't look for answers to your inner problems outside of yourself. I'm happy to see you're progressing DoggyLady.

I'll get somewhat OT if no one minds...Ceaorob: I see you've negative repped me for calling you out in that post. I know my post wasn't a fun read for you. It wasn't ''fun'' having to write it. But this is a personal development forum. If you're here to make immature penis jokes, you can leave before someone gets you banned. Otherwise, if you have a real contribution to make, if you're willing to grow, I'm all ears.

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

really, what's so great about men?

My job is predominantly male therefore outside of work I prefer women.

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by TheLifeQuaker

I'm ignoring everything else. I just wanted to say, I enjoyed seeing the movement from the OP to when you wrote up a small list of what you had realized for yourself through trying to find things to appreciate about men, DoggyLady. I'm not sure why subsequent posts have seemed to ignore it.

I just wanted to congratulate you on your improvement heading towards where you want to be, and I'm sure if you continue how you are on the topic it will turn out wonderfully.

I appreciate seeing someone strong enough to acknowledge an issue they have to themselves...and you went so far as to acknowledge it to other people.

I appreciating seeing you choose love instead of hate.

Who you want to be says more about who you are than who you are.

Thank you, Quaker (i think of Quaker brand oats, hehe).

It moves me to see your positive feedback to me. Nothing moves me more than knowing that i'm making progress in my life.

It's not "instead of hate". It's that I choose love instead of *resignation*.

I had felt the absence of love and i had long been resigned about it as a child.

It's scary to see myself adopting my mom's behaviors of not appreciating men. As I think about how my mom puts down my dad and nags at him and not respecting him, i feel dismayed that this may be related to me not having faith in men.

By appreciating men, I'm making an effort to recognise that men are really good and they do give love and that i'm blessed to have them around.

[cheesedip1]

I used to have things against both genders, but it wasn't a "gender" thing, it was more of an "individual" thing/issue.

[Curious cat]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

Thank you, Quaker (i think of Quaker brand oats, hehe).

It moves me to see your positive feedback to me. Nothing moves me more than knowing that i'm making progress in my life.

It's not "instead of hate". It's that I choose love instead of *resignation*.

I had felt the absence of love and i had long been resigned about it as a child.

It's scary to see myself adopting my mom's behaviors of not appreciating men. As I think about how my mom puts down my dad and nags at him and not respecting him, i feel dismayed that this may be related to me not having faith in men.

By appreciating men, I'm making an effort to recognise that men are really good and they do give love and that i'm blessed to have them around.

That's wonderful progress Doggylady. Good luck in your personal growth journey

[Curious cat]

I'd like to also add that i completely get the part about children (ie you and i) taking on some of our parents' characteristics subconsciously. In your case, your mother. In my case, my father.

My father constantly blamed and put down my mother. I hated him treating her like that. And on some level, i became him. I was extremely critical at my husband (and others, including myself, but mostly others). I was also domineering as i wanted to avoid becoming my mother at all costs.

It took years to unload all this baggage, and if i am being honest, this will always be my issue to work on to ensure it stays in check and not resurface and take over. However, i believe i am a better person today due to my past. My mistakes have forced me to take a good look at myself and grow. And life just keeps getting better and better. A big part of that is due to my much improved relationship with my husband (and he's stuck around for 12 years, bless him .)

This is why i believe you can appreciate men and overcome your issue. It starts with awareness, followed by your own willingness to go for it. And i see you have that steam rolling already . All the best!

[Spinoza]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

has it got to do with the primary male figure in my life....

my dad is always being brought down by my mom. she never appreciates him for anything and nags at him all day long. and when he wants to do something challenging and new, e.g. a business, instead of supporting him, she would react with a lot of fear, and scold him. when we are watching a tv show that shows extra martial affair, my mom would sternly warn my dad not to do anything like that, and threaten him, and she would gather the children's agreement to side with her.

I have never seem my mom respect my dad. and he tolerates this.

my dad's protective mechanism is to stonewall. sometimes he buries himself in his hobbies, but mom would complain about his hobbies.

Actually, he does a good job of bringing up the family financially speaking. but nobody has mentioned anything about him doing a good job of that. it is only when i was in adulthood and in hindsight that i figured this out.

i don't understand why my dad would want to live with all that nonsense from mom.

i used to think that dad was a saint for being able to withstand mom.

but now, i feel disappointed with him for not standing up for himself.

I'm going to suggest a reason why your Dad may have done this, you. Your Dad loved you so much that he was willing to bare any burden, endure any pain to make sure you had a Daddy and a Mommy and a semblance of a normal family to come home to. He took the responsibility of giving you a stable home very seriously and decided this is what he had to do to do it. I would also bet on the fact that if your Dad stood up for himself like you thought he should do your Mom and Dad would not have stayed together.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

We have penises!!!!!!!!!!!!

And whatever you don't like about us might be some trait that you want to see more of in yourself.

Like Insensitivity?

Yes, I can be insensitive at times...that must be why I attract so many insensitive males.

Look, men are good for some things...like, they can build stuff, and fix stuff that we can't be bothered learning how to fix(;

Oh yeah, and they have penises.

[garentee]

Doggy lady,
It is my opinion that you are working to break out of the family cycle of dealing with the other partner.. which is the best thing you can do! Keep it up.. you are doing the right things and asking the right questions...After reading about how your mother treats your father, I get it... Keep pushing straight ahead ...you will get there!!!

[awdye]

I think you've hit on a key to this in your observations of your parents relationship. It's what you grew up seeing as an example of what a relationship looks like.

It makes sense to me that you have a difficult time viewing men as anything other than what you were taught.

I'm glad to see you're working towards redefining the meaning you've placed on a man's role in a relationship.

Some tools that I've found helpful...

Byron Katie - "The Work" - Tons of free info available. Excellent in challenging the meaning we place on things.

Harville Hendricks - "Getting the Love You Want" - IMAGO. A path to healing old relationship patterns and wounds.

Al Turtle - Google him. A website with tons of info. Based on IMAGO. (Harville Hendricks)

When you see the couples on the street that look happy, try not to assume they're putting on a show in public. It's very possible they love each other in a supportive loving way. It's out there. Really...it is. Break your perception...you'll see that the mutually supportive love is all around you.

[BillieAnn]

I think men are better person than women. When they want to love, know how to love!
Never complicated, hysterical and frustrated as they can be woman it self!

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by BillieAnn

I think men are better person than women. When they want to love, know how to love!
Never complicated, hysterical and frustrated as they can be woman it self!

Thanks for the contribution?

Maybe this place needs to close down after all.

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by Spinoza

I'm going to suggest a reason why your Dad may have done this, you. Your Dad loved you so much that he was willing to bare any burden, endure any pain to make sure you had a Daddy and a Mommy and a semblance of a normal family to come home to. He took the responsibility of giving you a stable home very seriously and decided this is what he had to do to do it. I would also bet on the fact that if your Dad stood up for himself like you thought he should do your Mom and Dad would not have stayed together.

Maybe one day I should ask him.

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by awdye

I think you've hit on a key to this in your observations of your parents relationship. It's what you grew up seeing as an example of what a relationship looks like.

It makes sense to me that you have a difficult time viewing men as anything other than what you were taught.

I'm glad to see you're working towards redefining the meaning you've placed on a man's role in a relationship.

Some tools that I've found helpful...

Byron Katie - "The Work" - Tons of free info available. Excellent in challenging the meaning we place on things.

Harville Hendricks - "Getting the Love You Want" - IMAGO. A path to healing old relationship patterns and wounds.

Al Turtle - Google him. A website with tons of info. Based on IMAGO. (Harville Hendricks)

When you see the couples on the street that look happy, try not to assume they're putting on a show in public. It's very possible they love each other in a supportive loving way. It's out there. Really...it is. Break your perception...you'll see that the mutually supportive love is all around you.

Yes, I'm willing to trust that LOVE does exist in the pure form.




Thank you, everybody for the affirming replies!!!