Neil Strauss, Rules of the Game and Lightworking

[absentmindfulness]

Hi all, had a question regarding attraction skills and dating. Recently I've been trying to improve my success with women, and have been drawing on different sources of inspiration to make progress in this area. Some of my sources include Neil Strauss, author of The Game and other books, and Real Social Dynamics, a company founded by Owen Cook a.k.a. Tyler Durden, who was a character featured in the The Game. I've been primarily relying on the book Rules of the Game and RSD's blog and vlog posts to help me improve. Rules of the Game is in my opinion a better tool than The Game for guys looking to improve their dating success because it gives a step-by-step monthly program that develops every area in a focused, concise manner. Additionally, Neil has a lot of good inner-game stuff packed throughout, so by the end of the 30 days you (hopefully) have the self-confidence to match your level of skill. The RSD blog and vlog posts are good in that they help you develop the right mindset for attracting women; their focus is less on technique and more on having the right mentality, as well as being completely congruent with who you are as a person. Both of these approaches, I believe, have a lot of merit.

However, I keep running into stumbling blocks when it comes to Neil's work. Before I elaborate, I should mention that I have made the recent decision to polarize as a Lightworker, and am trying to keep all my behavior in alignment with this intention. Though Neil's program is, in my opinion, one of the best and most socially conscious out there, there are certain aspects of it that make me uneasy. For one thing, part of the program involves a hypnosis audio, the first lines of which include the phrase "You are the prize, and this is your reality," a notion that seems very Darkworker-oriented. Furthermore, some of his techniques seem potentially dishonest, such as asking for a woman's opinion based on a conversation with a friend that you may or may not have had. Are there any Lightworkers here who are familiar with Neil's work? Should I continue with his 30-day program or create one of my own? All input is appreciated.

[TonyToneTone]

"You are the prize, and this is your reality,"

You're misunderstanding what he means. Most, I would in fact say the majority of, men make women the prize thus giving women the power in the interaction. By telling yourself you are the prize, you take your power back and see that it is in her best interest too to win your affection. This mindset allows you to talk to numerous women and not to be swayed so heavily by the outcome. A lot of men are bi-polar in regards to dating and approaching women. If it goes well, they feel good, if it goes "bad" they feel bad. This mindset changes that so you feel good regardless of the situation.

Furthermore, some of his techniques seem potentially dishonest, such as asking for a woman's opinion based on a conversation with a friend that you may or may not have had.

The opinion based conversation starter is just that, a conversation starter. He's just looking for a way to break the ice and in my opinion, that method is WAY outdated. Women see right through it. If you do use it, use a question that you geniunely want answered. It can be tough for some guys to approach a woman or group of women so Neil's giving them all the tools he can. Take from Neil and Tyler and the rest what works for you and discard the rest.

[wstein]

Disclosure: I am not a ‘worker’.

It does not seem to me that playing games is NOT very ‘light’ oriented. Making people into ‘prizes’ doesn’t seem to qualify either.

Perhaps being authentic would be more in-line with your goals.

[vytas80]

Originally Posted by absentmindfulness

Recently I've been trying to improve my success with women, and have been drawing on different sources of inspiration to make progress in this area.

First things first.
Ask yourself "why?".
Why you want more success with women?
Why you want to meet them, date them and sleep with them?
And be honest to yourself about your true motives.

If you want to do so in the frame of self-interest, you want to experience personal pleasure, a sense of power and being in control to get some positive reinforcement, a boost to your confidence and self-worth... That is all fine with those motives, but they are just not alligned with Lightworking. If your motives are somewhat similar to that, you should either give up Lightworking or give up the pursuit of success with women.

On the other hand, if as a Lightworker, you trully believe that you are a great and genuine gift of love and pleasurable experience to women and you want to share this gift with as many women as possible (or find the One for a lifetime), when in fact it doesn't matter which technique you apply.

[trees]

Originally Posted by absentmindfulness

The RSD blog and vlog posts are good in that they help you develop the right mindset for attracting women; their focus is less on technique and more on having the right mentality, as well as being completely congruent with who you are as a person.

With all due respect, if you agree that being congruent with who you are as a person is a good thing, why in the world would you seek advice from others on how to do this? Maybe ways you could eliminate bad habits, but learning techniques is only going to make you self conscious and inhibit your ability to be congruent with who you are.

I like to think of it this way: There's always 2 routes to self-improvement. There's the quick-fix, technique route and the longer, deep inner work route. The technique route is like slapping on a bandaid on an infected wound. It's the more attractive route because it's quick and easy. It might look OK for a while, but that infection is just going to get worse and worse if it's not treated until the bandaid just won't do it. You can then decide to treat the infection, or go out and get another bandaid to cover it up (ie. buy another book). You could keep blaming the bandaid's size (ie. I need to read more books) not realizing that it is the infection that's getting worse. Pretty soon, this infection is going to cause all sorts of trouble, and no bandaid is going to be able to hide your problems anymore.

The alternative is to look deep and really resolve the things that ARE causing you to have problems in the first place. It's really hard, I know. It's really hard for me, anyway. Because it involves you being very honest with yourself and taking time to figure out things that don't really seem to be correlated with the result you want. But trust me, if you keep working at it, when you deal with the real issue, everything else will come naturally. At that point, techniques just aren't necessary anymore. But if you use them, they'll probably be more effective since you're using them as enhancements rather than crutches. But IMO, I've always found working on techniques to be damaging in the long run since your focus is in the wrong place (getting approval from others, etc. etc.).
I mean think about it. There are so many things about "what you should do" to be successful that other people are claiming. The classic one is eye contact. And it's not even BS information; it's true that confident people usually give more eye contact. But that's the BY-PRODUCT of them being confident. You don't become confident because you look at a person's eyes; you become confident when you know your values, what you stand for, etc. etc. Think about it: someone considered "creepy" is usually someone who gives you too MUCH eye contact, or eye contact in a strange way. So how much is too much? 3.4 seconds is good, but not 4 seconds? I think not. I think it has to do with eye contact working with a host of other factors. This is what being congruent is about.

So yeah, deciding to do inner work will take a lot of effort, time, and guts because (like an open wound), you will probably make more mistakes and look shittier than ever (excuse me for the language). But in the long run, you will come out stronger.

Sorry about the post length....I've definitely been lured into quick fixes before, and I just wanted to share my experience with it. It's a dead end.

[absentmindfulness]

Thank you everyone for the replies! From the looks of some of these, I feel as though I should make my intentions with this post a bit clearer. I've also recently had a perspective shift about my personal potential, so I'll touch on that as well. I'll use the analogy of playing soccer. Let's say I know that I have the potential to be a great soccer player, and inspire a lot of people with my success to pursue their dreams and become better players themselves. So I focus on improving my skills and contributing to the teams and organizations I'm a part of with my positive presence, with the hope that it will make me a more successful player and that I will go further with my career. Is that not a form of Lightworking? Even though I'm focusing on my own success, I'm doing it because I want to help others in the long run. Similarly, my desire to get better with women is motivated by my knowledge that I have the potential to be a great, positive force in a woman's life. I've often wondered, after losing a girl to a self-interested guy, why she was not more into me as I was clearly the better choice. If I believe that I am better for women in general than the majority of guys that I see around me, it's my responsibility to find a way to communicate that.

To continue the soccer analogy, a guy (or girl) who knew that he/she had the potential to be a great soccer player would not say to himself/herself: "Well, I'm confident with who I am as a person, so I don't need to work on my skills. People should just appreciate that I'm a great player already and be inspired by that." I don't know about any of you, and pardon the term, but to me that sounds like bull ♥♥♥♥. If I KNOW that I could be a great presence in a woman or multiple women's lives, I should probably work on getting my SKILLS to be CONGRUENT with my SELF IMAGE. I don't want to be a happy little Lightworker walking around while self-interested guys are attracting all the women. If I work on my skills with women and maintain the Lightworker perspective, I truly believe it will inspire other guys to become better lovers and better people in general.

I'm not interested in "quick fixes," but I am interested in making PROGRESS as EFFECTIVELY and EFFICIENTLY as I can. I have the opportunity now to take a month out of my life and work on making myself a more attractive person, and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't pursue that. However, if anyone disagrees or thinks that I'm completely delusional, I'd love to hear your input. Thanks for reading!

PS: TonyToneTone: Thank you sir; you have been instrumental in shifting my perspective about my role as a man in a relationship.
wstein: Gender dynamics are a tricky thing for people of my age group. Women that I'm interested in play games in order to determine whether or not men are a worthy match for them; in order to attract these women, I have to be able to meet them halfway.
vytas80: Same as TonyToneTone. Those were some important questions but I think I've managed answered them all and not write off my desire to polarize as a Lightworker.
trees: I see what you're saying, but I'm in a position now where I'm confident enough with myself and my life to feel worthy of the women I would like to be with. Learning techniques for me is just a convenient way to speed up the process without ignoring my self esteem or the value that I'm bringing to the interaction.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by absentmindfulness

wstein: Gender dynamics are a tricky thing for people of my age group. Women that I'm interested in play games in order to determine whether or not men are a worthy match for them; in order to attract these women, I have to be able to meet them halfway.

In ‘my’ day it was not so different. There was still the ‘popular’ game. I’m sure the details have changed but the essence not so much.
I made a choice that few make, I decided I was not into that sort of games. I chose not to engage in superficial behavior for that I might actually ’win’. Then what? I would be stuck with a game player. Not my cup of tea. I prefer genuine people and if there aren’t any, then I choose to be alone.