Where's the line between helping someone in need and staying in abusive relationship?

[Agota]

In personal development world, a big emphasis is put on ending toxic relationships and keeping your social circle positive. Obviously, it does sound like a right thing to do. However, in real life many complicated situations can come up..

For example, if your girlfriend/boyfriend would fall into serious depression and would treat you in an abusive manner as a result of his/her issues, should you stay and try to help him/her or should you go?

Or if your good friend falls into a serious depression and constantly brings you down, should you stay and try to help your friend or should you go?

I have been on both sides of the fence. On the one hand, I know that it's not fun at all to have a person with serious mental issues as your friend (..I've been punched in a face few times and had to take a knife from her once while she was suicidal, etc.). On the other hand, I know that behavior like this is a cry for help, since I was depressed for the most of my life and suicidal for the last few years myself and only one person could see through this and didn't push me away. I think about it and can't figure out where is the right balance between compassion and self-respect/keeping your social circle healthy. Any ideas?

[Angela]

I think that if someone is acting with a win/lose intention towards me, actively intending harm whether consciously or unconsciously, and I make choices that keep me in that harm's way, then I would be actively participating in self-harm.

How much help could I possibly be to that person if I won't or can't help my own self? How can I help the other person in making choices that support his well-being if I myself am making choices that support self-destruction?

It's kind of like jumping into the water to try to save someone from drowning when you don't know how to swim.

Smarter, I think, if you want to help the person, to do so within the boundaries of your own well-being, and if you don't have the resources to do so without going under, call for a lifeguard. And if someone is committed to drowning themselves, and you are not more personally powerful than they are, don't try to intervene, because they will surely take you down with them.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by Agota

In personal development world, a big emphasis is put on ending toxic relationships and keeping your social circle positive. Obviously, it does sound like a right thing to do. However, in real life many complicated situations can come up..

For example, if your girlfriend/boyfriend would fall into serious depression and would treat you in an abusive manner as a result of his/her issues, should you stay and try to help him/her or should you go?

Or if your good friend falls into a serious depression and constantly brings you down, should you stay and try to help your friend or should you go?

I have been on both sides of the fence. On the one hand, I know that it's not fun at all to have a person with serious mental issues as your friend (..I've been punched in a face few times and had to take a knife from her once while she was suicidal, etc.). On the other hand, I know that behavior like this is a cry for help, since I was depressed for the most of my life and suicidal for the last few years myself and only one person could see through this and didn't push me away. I think about it and can't figure out where is the right balance between compassion and self-respect/keeping your social circle healthy. Any ideas?

Hi Agota.

Good question. I personally think it's almost like being a nurse. For example; they see alot of stuff in the medical field they have a great amout of challenges to handle...you either love it or you don't.

I would think if you have a mental illness friend or boyfriend/girlfriend, family member...your job is to learn all you can about the disorder. This way you can NOT take things personally(they are sick)... sick people need to be loved too...I believe the "really sick" need their meds "given to them" and sometimes if this is NOT managed, this becomes a challenge because they think they're well and then stop taking it...anyway

On the other hand, you have to look out for yourself and what is good for you...If it is you need a break or time out (form your mentally ill friends-ect) take it...and be around your positive friends.

Your body will tell you when you've had enough...and the balance will come naturally.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's kind of like jumping into the water to try to save someone from drowning when you don't know how to swim.

Smarter, I think, if you want to help the person, to do so within the boundaries of your own well-being, and if you don't have the resources to do so without going under, call for a lifeguard. And if someone is committed to drowning themselves, and you are not more personally powerful than they are, don't try to intervene, because they will surely take you down with them.

I like this response because although it's in different language, it's very similar to what I had to say about it.

There are some people who are more well equipped to handle this type of situation than others. The big thing here is about buying into the story. Depression comes from a state of victimhood and voluntary helplessness based on an entirely madeup story of events that comes from a point of view that is entirely self centered. Being in this sort of state is all about projecting your inner negativity out onto the world. If you are a person who is prone to those types of issues yourself it is more likely that one of a couple of things may happen.

One is that you sympathize with whatever horrible story they come up with, which is bad for the both you because when you imagine where they are you will actually go there yourself. The second thing I think is fairly likely is that if you are prone to these kinds of issues is that you will see them as being self centered (which they are) but instead of seeing in from a larger perspective where there is some sort of compassion you, you will see it from your own self centered point of view and get upset in some way (angry,jealous,etc.) at them for sort of stealing your thunder, even if only in your head.

It is dangerous even for people who have escaped only somewhat this level of operation because although they may be beyond it may not take a lot to pull them back into old patterns. The same way it is wiser for a recovering alcoholic not to drink. Humans are negativity addicts and those of us who aren't are basically all in some stage of recovery from it, so exposure in close proximity like that can be quite dangerous.

It is a rare individual who can really handle and be helpful to an individual like this. You have to be completely unattached. You have to be willing to let them sink. You will help them swim if they are willing but you have to completely willing to watch them drown if they are not. You can give them the resources but it is up to them to use them. Negativity is like a vortex and you will get sucked in if you allow yourself and it will happen before you realize it.

[butterflyeffect]

Like yourself, Agota I have been on both sides of the sick fence.

For a while I was dealing with different issues of my own I used to deliberatley seek out other sick people to hang out with. I didn't always consciously realise this at the time though. Part of it was that sickness was comfortable and another part being with them made me feel normal and accepted.

Now I am in a healthy state myself I find it really important to my own wellbeing not to get over involved with other sick people because I get drawn back into it. But by the same token, I don't just want to cut them off completely. So far my solution has to try and be compassionate but not over involved. As a result, I don't position myself in the inner circle of support but still hang out with them socially or help people when thier vulnerable and alert appropriate people if I see any serious red flags.

[votoshka]

I agre with Angela's assessment. There is only so much you can do for someone else.

In a romantic relationship you need to ask yourself whether your partner is willing to get help (from someone other than you that is) and is willing to make an effort to improve. If they're not, and if they're abusive, then you need to walk away. I'm not saying you should entirely abandon them, you can be there to offer support or help if they're willing to take it, but you shouldn't be dealing with their crap day in and day out if they're not taking the time to work through the problem.

Ultimately, though, if a person's issues are that bad they probably need professional help, and if you're able, then by all means help them get the help they need. But don't try and do it all yourself unless you're equipped to deal with it.

[FelineNostalgia]

I've been on both sides of the fence also , I've both been with someone who turned abusive after I feel in love with them and tried to convince a few friends that their relationship is killing them holistically. I would say you can't help someone like that by staying with them, no matter how they try to change your mind about it- infact even that is a bad sign. It's not selfish at all to leave a relationship that's hurting you.

[awdye]

Originally Posted by FelineNostalgia

It's not selfish at all to leave a relationship that's hurting you.

It is selfish. It's a healthy form of taking care of yourself.

I think many people don't recognize their own needs and continue in a toxic relationship for fear of being labeled as "selfish".

Selfish is not bad. It simply means looking out for yourself. Taking care of yourself.

Sometimes the loving thing to do, for both, is to create some distance.

[newkaren]

*SIGH*

I only allow healthy people in my inner circle. Or as healthy as me. That is not to say I don't have friends who are unhealthy, they just are not close friends.

That is what I need to do for myself. If you don't take care of yourself you can't be there for others.

So, if an unhealthy person is bring you down, and refusing to get help, nothing wrong with telling them until they are ready to get help, you simply can't be a part of their life. It's called hitting bottom.

[Prinie]

That's where Detachment comes in. I've been with both and what I learned was to not allow that kind of behavior to affect you. Someone said it's like being a nurse. You have to set a "boundary". REalize that you're doing what you can, but don't allow those people to put you down. If you're in a relationship with them, then yes you can help them, but don't wallow with them. Help 'em out, and find people who can lift you higher.

[newkaren]

Okay, I have to say this. I work in healthcare.

Nurses, in general, have poor boundaries.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by newkaren

Okay, I have to say this. I work in healthcare.

Nurses, in general, have poor boundaries.

I'm intrigued. I would love to hear more about this. (o_o) I think that's more of a social thing though. Our consciousness level is one where we get over enmeshed believing it a sign of care. But please tell me more. I'd love to learn.

[newkaren]

Originally Posted by Prinie

I'm intrigued. I would love to hear more about this. (o_o) I think that's more of a social thing though. Our consciousness level is one where we get over enmeshed believing it a sign of care. But please tell me more. I'd love to learn.

What exactaly do you want to know.

IMHO it starts out fine. People become nurses because they want to help. Well... when you help too much, you end up co-dependant.

They, in general, have poor relationships. I would guess that 1/2 of the nurses I work with are supporting husbands that don't work. I see a lot of abuse. Abuse by the nurses and to the nurses. Phyical, emotional, and of all types of drugs. The nurses can be very controlling, and willing to be controlled... The older nurses, many seem to have given up on relationships, and love their animals.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by newkaren

What exactaly do you want to know.

IMHO it starts out fine. People become nurses because they want to help. Well... when you help too much, you end up co-dependant.

They, in general, have poor relationships. I would guess that 1/2 of the nurses I work with are supporting husbands that don't work. I see a lot of abuse. Abuse by the nurses and to the nurses. Phyical, emotional, and of all types of drugs. The nurses can be very controlling, and willing to be controlled... The older nurses, many seem to have given up on relationships, and love their animals.

Oh...that's unfortunate. I see what you're saying. I had to ask. I'm going to be a nurse and was curious. lol

[newkaren]

Originally Posted by Prinie

Oh...that's unfortunate. I see what you're saying. I had to ask. I'm going to be a nurse and was curious. lol

I went out of my way to say in general. This is not true of all nurses. Watch your boundries.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by newkaren

I went out of my way to say in general. This is not true of all nurses. Watch your boundries.

I know. Thank you for sharing with me.

[Agota]

Thank you for your replies, people!

I came to a conclusion that when it comes to helping people who have issues and therefore are abusive the most important thing is to help them to the extent to which you can help them without them dragging you down

[scorpiogabrielle]

Hello everyone,

I was in an abusive relationships several years ago. I was married to the person and have a child with him. Since getting divorced I have had a ton of therapy and he has as well. I have since freed myself of all of the blame and heartache that the relationship brought and I see it as a learning experience. I still am healing but have managed to have some lovely healthy relationships. If you do not allow yourself to face all the pain and sorrow it is very difficult to move forward. I lost my sense of self, stuffed my feelings, and became quite depressed. I have found my voice and I am now able to share my feelings and express myself fully. My most recent relationship ended, since the person I chose was insecure, narcissitic, and difficult to communicate with. Since he was not able to share intimacy at the level that I was, I left the relationship even though I truely felt that I was in love. At times I still blame myself (leftover from the marriage) but I know that being able to open your heart and express true desire and emotions are the key to healthy loving relationships. Oh and by the way...the guy I left had been married to a lesbian for 20 years..what do you think of that?

[Partaker]

Originally Posted by awdye

It is selfish. It's a healthy form of taking care of yourself.

I think many people don't recognize their own needs and continue in a toxic relationship for fear of being labeled as "selfish".

Selfish is not bad. It simply means looking out for yourself. Taking care of yourself.

Sometimes the loving thing to do, for both, is to create some distance.

i agree & especially for a family relationship that has become toxic.
i had a recent experience where just cutting down the conversation to good mornings and good nights restored peace in the relationship.

but intimate relationships put a lot more on the plate. sex and possibility of children/marriage are thrown into the mix.. you have to consider the degree of abuse vs that person's need. there's no clear answer for this imo.. only to know your personal line.