Grudge against humanity

[beetle]

I am now a firm believer that most humans are intrinsically selfish, rather than good. I have been friendless for about 4 years now and I am depressed. I was a loser as a kid and was picked on everyday, even beaten up and mugged. I never tried to hurt or be mean to anybody; I always wanted to make friends and got nothing but rejection. Even now that I am 23, I find I just lack the social skills to be a part of anything or anybody. People always treat me like I am awkward and take any chance to break away from a conversation. I get the feeling like people are generally unimpressed with me to the point that trying to befriend them makes me a burden.
I wouldn't say I am victimized, just forgotten and ignored. Due to things about me and my personality that I cannot control, such as nervousness and shyness, people have chosen that I am not worth their time. They have instead flocked to people who are characteristically rude and arrogant. I'm not sure why people gravitate towards this, other than the possibility that they view those traits as successful and are hoping to emulate them. The whole thing is disgusting and simple minded to me. In some ways I feel inferior because of my inability to communicate, but other times I feel superior because society's way to communicate is totally asinine.
When it really comes down to it, I feel people have let me down. Nobody shares my moral values or my sense of manners. I feel like I am behind in society in part because I am honest, upbeat (or try to be), and complimentary. These traits seem to give off the impression of weakness. How can I learn to love or even like people again when every group of people I meet respond to me in this way?

[rawxstasy]

I am sorry you feel this way. I think many people who are socially awkward had parents who were abusive or unavailable. You didn't learn good social skills at home which then affected how you were percieved by society.

Unfortunately how much we like or dislike ourselves communicates to others around us. You are sending out a vibe of "I'm depressed, I"m a loser" etc. Even though you believe you are being upbeat your energy is saying otherwise.

It is natural to feel nervous and shy around people especially when you don't have any positive experiences to fall back on. I also didn't have friends for about 3 years. I learned to do things by myself, learned to enjoy my own company. I would be so terrified that people would think I'm weird that I never said anything, I couldn't even look people in the eye. How I changed that was I stopped caring what people thought of me and I didn't give up. I made myself join in conversations ( like at school) and I'd make some comment that seemed appropriate. A lot of the time, people would just ignore me. I stayed there though and would listen or make another comment if it seemed right. There were also times when I'd say something and people would just look at me like I was some freak of nature or something. I kept at it though. Even if people walked away when I was in the middle of saying something, I would just try to brush it off and not be upset and try again. Eventually people started responding to me more. It took about 4 -5 years to feel like I could join in a conversation and not feel uncomfortable. Now I have about 3 -4 friends and I am working on growing my social circle.

This might sound strange to you, but after a while, I started to see that my outer experiences were a reflection of my inner world. It wasn't actually that people were rejecting me but I was rejecting myself. Everything that I thought other people were doing to me. I was actually doing it to myself.

[rawxstasy]

To add to my previous post. Another thing that helped me a lot was to post on this site. If there was a topic that interested me or I had a question, I 'd post. Eventually I began to see that other people found me acceptable. I also discovered that I had something important to say and that people valued my opinion. This helped a lot to get me to open up to people in real life. Maybe that's why I didn't get so upset when I experienced rejection. At least I knew that I was accepted by members of this forum.

[Lethalmind]

I used to have this same opinion. I also HATE HATE HATE HATE HAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEE people, and to be completely I still do.

But my point is, I thought I was this compassionate person that people hated for no reason at all. Like you. I was the victim of this situation, but I couldn't see the reality of what is.


A couple weeks ago I discovered that I can be terribly cruel. Maybe even more than the average person, because I have a hard time putting myself in other people's shoes.

I was deluding myself into believing I had all this love that I don't have. I finally am able to see myself as I really am. Not as I want to be seen.


Observe yourself objectively. Are you really as friendly as you say you are? If you're driving people away from you at least know the real reasoning. Then begin the road of changing. It's a long one though.

Awkwardness is probably only one reason of many. If you were beaten up as a kid, I guarantee you have hatred of these sons of b*tches.

Hidden bitterness that you're not yet ready to see. Even look at the title of your post.

Am I wrong here?

[C33]

If you are driving selfish, arrogant, mean people away, then I'd say: good for you.

If you are driving sheep away maybe it means you have to join a wolf pack, or a be a solitary wolf.

I find that the GEN Y is full of people who have social anxiety issues, while appearing very sure of themselves, borderline arrogant.

There seems to be a lot of peer pressure, and a lot of socialising in groups. Just my 2 cents as a GEN Xer.

I find this" life as a popularity contest " annoying and reeking of desperation.

You'd be surprised to see how many people feel the same as you do. All these popular people, what are they popular for? A video they posted on Youtube? 1200 friends of Facebook?

If you can find the strength to rise above and fight the desire to fit in, at the price of your sanity, then you'll be all right.

It took me years to realise, I don't want people who don't want me.

The bullying has made you believe there is something wrong with you. You have to get out of the bullied person mindset, and , as suggested by others, stop bullying yourself with thoughts of being unworthy.

[ZephyrusX]

I spent a large chunk of my life without friends either due to shyness. I'm talking about 6-8 years. It does hurt being alone and it has a lot of negative influences upon your social skills and your identity. I still have trouble calling people 'friends'.

It is really easy to hate or begrudge other people for our problems. It is a coping mechanism insofar as it places the blame onto other people and allows us to avoid looking at ourselves. It is a poor coping mechanism though as it rarely solves anything.

No one is obligated to be your pal and they won't unless you provide them with some form of value (laughter, kindness, shared excitement etc). This doesn't make them selfish; it simply makes them healthy individuals who know what they want out of friends. Friendship is a mutually beneficial relationship.

If you want more friendships, you are going to have to change aspects of your self. Are you willing to look at your self and ask, 'who would I ideally like to be? What value would I like to give others? What do I want from others?'

[James81]

What makes you think that you can't control the nervousness and the shyness and the social awkwardness? Let's start there.

[ZephyrusX]

You can try reading this.

Amazon.com: How to Win Friends & Influence People (9780671723651): Dale Carnegie: Books

[beetle]

Thank you for your responses everyone.
Unfortunately I don't think I've managed to find what I need yet. All of this stuff about having to change who I am to make friends...I just want to be myself. I know that the problem isn't a misperception of my behavior, because I always am 100% mindful of my manners. I'll agree that my self-image may reflect to others, but so what? Is that any reason to overlook the possibility of friendship? The problem isn't what I need to do better, it's that I simply got dealt a bad hand for my social needs. I can't control my shyness or nervousness because it has physical symptoms that are uncontrollable. I've tried therapy, medication, self help books, just about everything for over 10 years and the problem only gets worse.
Maybe I shouldn't expect people to like me, and if it happened sometimes that would be no big deal. But a constant stream of disapproval is enough to make me resent people.

[ZephyrusX]

Is your shyness and awkwardness the reason why people are not attracted to you? That is what I originally got out of your OP. I can say that was the reason why people weren't all that attracted to me in the past. Once the barriers that caused my shyness came down (i.e people are unsafe), people have been generally more open and inclusive towards me.

[James81]

Originally Posted by beetle

I can't control my shyness or nervousness because it has physical symptoms that are uncontrollable. I've tried therapy, medication, self help books, just about everything for over 10 years and the problem only gets worse.

(Just a little warning, I'm more of a direct, blunt, no-frills-attached kind of poster, so the following post may make you uncomfortable...)

Anyway, the part of your post I quoted is complete BS and a list of excuses. How do I know that? Because I used to make those same excuses (this thread could very well have been written by me a few years back, actually). I used to be so nervous and shy around people that my armpits would sweat and my throat would clog up and I'd literally lose my breath. And I, like you, used to believe that that was just "how I am." I would also make these long lists of things I've tried just like you did here. If you are being honest with yourself (really honest) you didn't REALLY try any of those things did you? You read self help books (but only put a half-hearted effort, if that, into it)...you went to a therapist...but again, you didn't really commit yourself to anything. You just went. You just read. Just going, just reading, and just swallowing a pill isn't going to "fix" you. It isn't going to make you a better person, it isn't going to give you magical social skills overnight.

The cold, hard, blunt truth is this....you have to make a commitment to overcoming your shyness and your nervousness. And you have to realize that it IS NOT going to happen overnight. It's going to be slight adjustments and tweaks over the course of years before you find that comfort around people.

But nobody is coming to save you. Nobody can fix you. No self-help book, no therapy, and no pill will work until you make a commitment to overcoming your limitations rather than sit and complaining about the world. The world doesn't owe you anything just because you try to be nice.

In any case, I know that's blunt and harsh, but it's the truth as I've experienced it. Me being someone who has been exactly where you are right now and has moved beyond it.

[rawxstasy]

I just want to be myself

That is fine to be yourself. I don't think anyone is saying you have get a new personality. Think about it. Whatever you are doing now isn't working. If you want different results something has to change. It is much easier to change yourself than trying to get other people to change. By changing yourself I just mean change your attitude, your outlook, what actions you are taking.

I agree with what James said. You really need to put a lot of effort into this. Reading a book isn't going to change anything. You need to do the exercises, implement the changes. And as he said it takes many tries and a lot of time. But little by little you will get where you want to go.

I don't think I've managed to find what I need yet

What were you looking for?
You will find that on this site, we are all about taking action. This also involves honest reflection on yourself. The only way to change people's responses to you is for you to make some changes. You can blame society and be angry that they don't accept you but it still won't get the results you want.

[quiethumir]

I think you're getting all the advice you need in this thread.

Remember that you alone are responsible for the quality of your life

Best of luck to you!

[beetle]

I thought about everything you guys have said. Honestly I don't think I can try harder than I already have. Maybe you're right though, in that it just takes more time. But after years go by...I'm starting not to want to try, I'll be honest with you guys the last couple months I've just been going through the motions. Maybe this thread was one final attempt to question what I already know I feel inside.
I'm tired of trying to conform to social standards. I don't even want friends lately because the whole concept has been cheapened for me. It just feels like a waste of time at this point because ultimately I don't even like anybody. If somebody nice came and approached me that would be different, but that never happens.
It sucks to admit, but thats how I feel. I'm sure you guys have different opinions, and that's cool. I'll admit that it sucks feeling this way, and that I wish I could believe something different...but i just don't.

[ZephyrusX]

How often do you actually interact with people? Do you shrink away from social contact the moment you feel the slightest bit of discomfort?

May be you are focusing your efforts on the wrong thing (i.e self-help books) when you will get better results doing something else (i.e interacting with people in a way that will challenge your limiting beliefs).

Do you work? Or go to school?

[beetle]

I'm going to law school, and I actually do talk to other people a lot more than they talk to me. I've never really had stage fright, I choose not to talk sometimes because I'm expecting a predictable outcome from a particular person. It's just no matter how hard I've tried to connect to others, theres a disconnect.

[rawxstasy]

I actually do talk to other people a lot more than they talk to me

Why are you keeping track of that? Just let it go.

no matter how hard I've tried to connect to others, theres a disconnect

Maybe for now, stop trying. Just be with yourself. You already are alone. Just learn to enjoy your own company. Go out to dinner by yourself, go to a movie. Our society makes it seem like people who are alone must have something wrong with them but I think it's healthy to spend time alone.

[Wombels]

Originally Posted by beetle

How can I learn to love or even like people again when every group of people I meet respond to me in this way?

In which country do you live?

[ZephyrusX]

Do you have lasting relationships with people, but feel disconnected because of a lack of intimacy? Or do you feel disconnected because you are not able to form lasting relationships?

Originally Posted by beetle

I'm going to law school, and I actually do talk to other people a lot more than they talk to me. I've never really had stage fright, I choose not to talk sometimes because I'm expecting a predictable outcome from a particular person. It's just no matter how hard I've tried to connect to others, theres a disconnect.

[Lyt]

Originally Posted by beetle

I am now a firm believer that most humans are intrinsically selfish, rather than good. I have been friendless for about 4 years now and I am depressed. I was a loser as a kid and was picked on everyday, even beaten up and mugged. I never tried to hurt or be mean to anybody; I always wanted to make friends and got nothing but rejection. Even now that I am 23, I find I just lack the social skills to be a part of anything or anybody. People always treat me like I am awkward and take any chance to break away from a conversation. I get the feeling like people are generally unimpressed with me to the point that trying to befriend them makes me a burden.
I wouldn't say I am victimized, just forgotten and ignored. Due to things about me and my personality that I cannot control, such as nervousness and shyness, people have chosen that I am not worth their time. They have instead flocked to people who are characteristically rude and arrogant. I'm not sure why people gravitate towards this, other than the possibility that they view those traits as successful and are hoping to emulate them. The whole thing is disgusting and simple minded to me. In some ways I feel inferior because of my inability to communicate, but other times I feel superior because society's way to communicate is totally asinine.
When it really comes down to it, I feel people have let me down. Nobody shares my moral values or my sense of manners. I feel like I am behind in society in part because I am honest, upbeat (or try to be), and complimentary. These traits seem to give off the impression of weakness. How can I learn to love or even like people again when every group of people I meet respond to me in this way?

I think I can understand how you feel. I've always felt different from other people, like I'm born on the wrong era. Since I started working, I'm convinced that people are intrinsically selfish. But I try to look into reasons why they're being selfish. Sometimes I am very worried that I fall amongst these group of people and forget who I am. I wouldn't say that people have let me down, it's just that I'm different. Everyone has their choice of living, who are we to comment? But I'm glad I'm different.

[taylor]

Have you ever heard of the biology term "mirror neurons"? It's where when you watch someone else feel something, you recreate that feeling in yourself. Because of this fact:

What you feel, they tend to feel.

That means you need to learn how to keep your own vibe in yourself good first, and that will transfer to the person you're interacting with.

If you're depressed, then why would anyone want that vibe to rub off on them. If you're nervous and needy, then why would anyone want that vibe to rub off on them. No one wants to feel this way, as you yourself can attest.

Your first job is to learn how to feel good on your own, and then you can learn how to bring that with you while with others without shutting it down due to shyness/nervousness. Notice the people who make friends easily just have vibes people like and want to be around. It's not complex.

3 suggestions for a good vibe:
1. meditation (will teach you to feel good as you are without needing anything)
2. positivity (will teach you to feel good by staying positive)
3. movement (loosen you up and get you out of your comfort zone to prevent you from constraining your vibe around others due to the habit of shyness and "protecting" yourself)

BONUS: Your voice probably sucks too? I would guess you're a mumbler who doesn't project due to a habit of self-constraining. This makes it harder for others to connect to you because you're essentially hiding your voice. Try a vocal audio program like Roger Love or something to teach you how to project, which is basically getting out of your own way and learning to not stifle yourself.

[Philemon]

It starts within.

If I'm dissatisfied with my outer world, I need to look inward. In other words, if I'm feeling hateful toward people, there's something about myself I hate. So I need to work on that.

taylor's comments about "mirror neurons" fit well, and you seem to understand that. Also, there's another idea dubbed "expectancy theory."

Expectancy theory is basically how it sounds. Look at the title of the post "Grudge Against Humanity." Well, if I carry the belief that most humans are "bad," deserving of resentment and even hate, what am I going to perceive? Bad people, stupid people, mean people. And I'm right. They exist. But this is not "the truth;" it's merely an affirmation of my belief.

Bluntly put - - If you want to make friends, you need to stop hating them before you give them a chance.

[cheesedip1]

Why kind of people do you talk to? What places do you try to talk to people? Maybe if you found a place with more like-minded people, people would be more friendly?

(I've found that usually, the older that people are, the more nice and respectful they are. It depends on what type of friends you are looking for, though.)