[ADULT] Split thread: Porn (actors, effects, attitudes toward)

[TinaC]

Moderator Note: This thread was split off from the original, which is here: My Fiancée is afraid of sex? It might be helpful to look through that thread to get background for this one, if you're confused as to the topic and how it evolved, etc.

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Most of the female stars (with the exception of a few) are making less money doing porn than Hailey did modelling and she is making even more money now in her current profession. These are women that could be doctors, nurses, lawyers, scientists, engineers, accountants, psychologists, architects, writers, artists, system analyst, journalists, web designers, politicians, musicians, directors etc but instead they chose to perform sexual acts in front of a camera for thousands of perverts around the world such as desperate blokes who can't get girlfriends, blokes like Hailey’s Uncle who are going through a midlife crises or people in unhappy marriages.

Gary, you make some great points but you have to understand hun that the girls who make those movies don’t have any class and they have been brought up in families where it’s okay to be a slut and sell their bodies for the cameras.

They do those movies because they were too lazy to get a decent education like the rest of us and they give girls like me that do a bad name.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by TinaC

I wouldn’t want Gary to remain a virgin for me but I just think he should wait until Hailey is ready to do it instead of having an open relationship. It sounds like she is working on this and I wish him and her good luck and congratulations on their wedding next month.

Yes, and hasn't he been saying all through this thread that he won't do anything Hailey isn't comfortable with?

People who spoke of his needs being met were doing so to affirm that his needs are just as important as Hailey's are. Surely you can concede to that. No one is saying he HAS to have his needs met, in fact nearly everyone has been focussing on Hailey's healing throughout this thread...AND some mentioned that it's ok for Gary to have his needs met as well...which some people seem to be happy to place as unimportant compared to Hailey's needs here.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by TinaC

Gary, you make some great points but you have to understand hun that the girls who make those movies don’t have any class and they have been brought up in families where it’s okay to be a slut and sell their bodies for the cameras.

They do those movies because they were too lazy to get a decent education like the rest of us and they give girls like me that do a bad name.

I think you have a lot of wrong assumptions, harsh judgements and prejudice here, as well as some ignorance about the industry in general. You are placing yourself above them. Does that make you feel like you are better than they are?

I personally have never heard of families like you describe, where they raise their kids to sell their bodies, except perhaps in Asia, where families are so poor they are forced to sell their own children into sex slavery, which is devastatingly sad.

Do you really know families like this, or is that just something you've heard through someone else that exists out there? Honestly...

Where did you get the idea that they are merely too lazy to get a decent education? Apart from being wrong, given that many porn stars are actually quite intelligent and have degrees...and CHOOSE to do porn because they love sex, how do you know they AREN'T getting a decent education. Loads of women do porn to PAY for their decent education...did you realize that?

I can see how that would make some people, who have had to sling burgers for pittance for years to pay for their education a bit bitter, but come on...they could have done porn too, they chose not to because they wanted to be seen to be "decent and honest" by people around them. Women in porn generally don't give a damn what anyone thinks, which shows a strong mind right there.

What gives you the idea that a decent education is the only way to "make it" in this world? Lots of millionaire business men started off without any education at all, bar the basic grade school. They didn't go to university, yet they had initiative and drive to succeed and they did.

Did you even consider that many people just don't know what they want to do when they are young, and so they don't go to uni because they can't decide what direction is best for them. At least with porn, they know they like sex and they can get paid well for it.

How exactly do porn stars give 'girls like you' a bad name, by doing what they love to do, and by doing what THEY CHOOSE to do with their own bodies?

'Girls like you' are what give the sisterhood a bad name.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I have to agree Butterfly and I will admit I am partly responsible for my thread going off topic since I mentioned my Fiancée’s perspective of the porn industry. While I don’t agree one hundred percent with her I think she is entitled to her opinion as is everybody who posted on this thread. My opinion of porn slightly differs from most males due to my religious upbringing and my old girlfriend. I think the females in these movies are free to do what they want and I am not going to ‘slut bash’ them for it but with that being said I also believe they could be doing something better with their lives.

How do you know they aren't though? Lots of women do porn to pay for their education, on the side.

Most of the female stars (with the exception of a few) are making less money doing porn than Hailey did modelling and she is making even more money now in her current profession. These are women that could be doctors, nurses, lawyers, scientists, engineers, accountants, psychologists, architects, writers, artists, system analyst, journalists, web designers, politicians, musicians, directors etc but instead they chose to perform sexual acts in front of a camera for thousands of perverts around the world such as desperate blokes who can't get girlfriends, blokes like Hailey’s Uncle who are going through a midlife crises or people in unhappy marriages.

They may not be the majority of women in porn, but some actually are scientists and architects etc. They do porn on the side to pay for their education, and some even do it as a social experiment, and to try it out. Many do it because they simply love sex and what better job for someone who loves sex than to get paid LOTS to do what you love.

I am not saying all people that watch porn are like that but I am strictly talking about the majority. Is porn really a dream career or is it the bottom of the barrel? I am aware there are women that enjoy being watched by men but take a good look at most of the men they attract. As a former model my Fiancée once told me most of the men that recognised her were very creepy and she would keep as far away as possible as she could from them. Porn is known to draw some very shady characters and I wonder if the women really get off knowing these types of men are watching them.

I think like a lot of careers, porn would have a shelf life. Women get older and they may not be as into it, or feel like they want to do something else...so it's not really something they do their whole lives.

Porn and sex have became mainstream in recent years and as a parent I honestly don’t think that is a good thing when kids as young as my daughter can see it on TV, in magazines and can easily access it on the internet. Violence is becoming prominent in today’s society too and while I enjoy watching a good horror flick or an action movie with Schwarzenegger, Van Damme, Willis, Seagal and Lundgren I would never let my daughter watch them. We all know the difference between porn and action movies but in terms of debate you could easily say they are no different than cigarettes and alcohol.

How do you manage to justify that it's not ok to expose a girl to horror images, but somehow it's ok that you fill your head with graphic violence? It's still the equivalent of junk food, that is probably worse for your mind than porn is.

There is a lot of pressure in today’s society to look ‘perfect’ and some kids develop anorexia trying to look like the people they see in magazines and TV. Porn is partially to blame for this as is the music, movies and modelling industries. They promote this concept and it is absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. No teenage girl or boy should have to look like a movie star. These are not good role models for kids and it makes you wonder how the world is going to be in twenty or thirty years. I believe you should try to be the best possible version of yourself and not try to be somebody else.

I agree with you here, and it would be great if porn stars didn't feel like they had to dress the way they do to appeal to their audience. It kinda makes sense that they do though, as they are playing a role...the Slut...and dressing the way people consider easy women to dress, would help them fall into character much more easily than if they just came as they were...so to speak.

I think a lot of people who watch porn arent' really into all the plastic and boob jobs though. Whenever I have viewed porn, the comments from watchers have mostly been disliking the lack of pubic hair and the boob jobs. They all seem to want more natural women who have their own boobs and pubic hair,so...it's interesting how that has turned around.

Courtney told me a few months ago she wants to be the Prime Minister and a Veterinarian when she grows up so she can help people and animals. In my opinion these are far more desirable jobs along with the ones I mentioned above than being a porn star. I can only imagine how the parents of porn stars feel when their daughters tell them what career they have chosen. Once again, I am not going to judge but if people are going to base their lives and career solely on their looks they better hope they have something else to fall back on because looks fade and one accident can ruin their career.

Again though, how do you know many of these women also don't do jobs like this. It's not like they are making porn every single day (though some do). For the most part they will play a role in a porn flick that takes a month to film, and then they won't work for another 3-6 months, or whenever their agent calls them. That leaves a lot of spare time to do other stuff...and you never know what they do with their spare time. I think it's unrealistic thinking here.

My Fiancée was a model but she is multitalented and intelligent. One of the things she often tells me is she likes being recognized for her brain and not just the size of her boobs. She currently works as an artist and a web designer. She can sing, play guitar, piano and bass too. Hailey is one of the smartest women I know and she is so much more than just another pretty face. I think the reason why a lot of women (including Hailey) call porn stars is because of what she said above. They want to be seen for more than their looks and porn stars unwillingly send out the wrong messages to men.

I do agree with you here, and have had similar struggles and thoughts growing up, as I am an attractive woman. I used to blame porn, and I think it can have an influence, and yes, mixed messages can be sent out.

I doubt very much that porn is the only thing these women do. It seems to be a common misconception though with many people. How do you know they don't also play cello, sing like an opera star, and run a legitimate business on the side? You don't? People just assume stuff...and usually they are dead wrong.

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks for splitting the thread.

I never suggested the women that did porn were sluts Tina. I was just saying I think there are better careers out there than having sex for thousands of perverts to watch on their computers or DVD players. I know most of them want fame, attention and to be noticed that but the majority of people they draw are not exactly what I would consider desirable. For every normal bloke watching those movies there are a hundred sick bastards humping their beds over it or doing God knows what else.

That is simply the real world and I am not saying porn stars to blame for that. As a model my Fiancée used to attract the same crowd as I mentioned before and this was one of the many reasons she quit modelling because it creeped her out. I understand some women get off knowing there are people somewhere watching them but at the same time I believe they are creating a false image of who they hope are getting on to their movies as nobody would get off on what some twisted people do.

I never said porn stars weren't intelligent. There is a very good chance some of them could be doing porn to pay for their educations. I wrote poetry and songs and sold them to local bands to pay for my education and I had it a lot easier than other students but there is a strong possibly doing porn might prevent them from doing other jobs later in life because they are not taken seriously. Hailey’s Uncle told me a few years back there was a porn star who was trying to get into politics that failed because other politicians used her career against her. Vince McMahon won't rehire Chyna because she is doing porn but has no problem hiring former Playboy models.

Regardless of how we feel we both know a lot of porn stars are going to struggle crossing over to the mainstream because of people with TinaC’s perspective. That’s why I highly doubt America, Canada, United Kingdom and America will ever have a President or Prime Minister that used to do porn. They have as much of a chance as Peter Garrett does of becoming Prime Minister or Jello Biafra becoming President which I think would be fun. I’m sure there are a lot of porn stars that do things on the side and it is wrong of people to assume they don’t. When my Fiancée was doing modelling she was also the lead vocalist of a band and played lead guitar which a lot of people did not know.

As for filling my head with violent images I justify that because I want to become a horror writer like my idols Stephen King, Bret Easton Ellis and Robert Bloch. I’ve watched enough horror movies that nothing scares me anymore and I laugh at them because I know they are fake. Freddy Krueger was hilarious at times and Chucky was too. I like two very different extremes. Horror and romance and I often write Hailey poems and songs which she says are adorable and then I turn around and write some very twisted material that scares the ♥♥♥♥ out of people. It does not mean I have the urge to pick up a gun or a knife and start killing people and I don’t find it funny when it is real.

My main love in life (apart from my Fiancée of course) is music and I don’t know about you but there is nothing more attractive than when Hailey sings to me.

[Agota]

Gary, you make some great points but you have to understand hun that the girls who make those movies don’t have any class and they have been brought up in families where it’s okay to be a slut and sell their bodies for the cameras.

They do those movies because they were too lazy to get a decent education like the rest of us and they give girls like me that do a bad name.

Please forgive me for being blunt, but I think that women who slut-shame other women are the ones who have no class

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Agota

Please forgive me for being blunt, but I think that women who slut-shame other women are the ones who have no class

I agree totally.

Women who do this are even worse than men who slut shame. Women are supposed to support each other, not tear each other down.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

As for filling my head with violent images I justify that because I want to become a horror writer like my idols Stephen King, Bret Easton Ellis and Robert Bloch. I’ve watched enough horror movies that nothing scares me anymore and I laugh at them because I know they are fake. Freddy Krueger was hilarious at times and Chucky was too. I like two very different extremes. Horror and romance and I often write Hailey poems and songs which she says are adorable and then I turn around and write some very twisted material that scares the ♥♥♥♥ out of people. It does not mean I have the urge to pick up a gun or a knife and start killing people and I don’t find it funny when it is real.

I know that you know it is all fake, and so do I. I'm not suggesting that you don't. What I'm saying is that you are still filling your head with disturbing images...which I personally believe does have an effect on the mind, regardless of whether the person is conscious of it or not. That's my personal feeling though, so you can take it or leave it of course. I cannot prove it with any hard evidence.

I just don't see how it is any different to filling your head with junk food porn?

My main love in life (apart from my Fiancée of course) is music and I don’t know about you but there is nothing more attractive than when Hailey sings to me.

Very sweet.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I honestly don't see a problem with the porn industry, although I don't think I would want to be a part of it. A great movie about the porn industry is Boogie Nights, as it paints a pretty good picture of what it is all about. People get into porn because of two things: the money or the sex. Either way, I don't really see it as shameful. I don't see it as classless. Many of these girls are just trying to make it in the world, and this is a more fun way to work than selling overpriced T-shirts at Banana Republic. But it also has a dark side that is best avoided.

Whether or not you agree, porn does objectify women pretty shamelessly. Although it's not a crime to do so, I'd say it could be holding us back in some ways. When you're watching a porn video, you are not pondering what the girl (or the guy's) hopes and dreams are. You are simply objectifying them as the object of your fantasy. Watching porn in small doses won't warp your sense of reality, but porn in excess could cause some serious problems.

I'm not going to say that pron is evil or the devil, but it is not exactly the moral high ground when it comes to a career. And there is plenty risk involved when it comes to STDs and such. It can be fun to watch once in awhile from the viewer's perspective, but it is important to form real relationships as well, instead of this strange sexual idolatry. Porn is what it is, and love it or hate it, it will be around as long as there is a demand for it.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Thanks for splitting the thread.

I never suggested the women that did porn were sluts Tina. I was just saying I think there are better careers out there than having sex for thousands of perverts to watch on their computers or DVD players. I know most of them want fame, attention and to be noticed that but the majority of people they draw are not exactly what I would consider desirable. For every normal bloke watching those movies there are a hundred sick bastards humping their beds over it or doing God knows what else.

That is simply the real world and I am not saying porn stars to blame for that. As a model my Fiancée used to attract the same crowd as I mentioned before and this was one of the many reasons she quit modelling because it creeped her out. I understand some women get off knowing there are people somewhere watching them but at the same time I believe they are creating a false image of who they hope are getting on to their movies as nobody would get off on what some twisted people do.

I never said porn stars weren't intelligent. There is a very good chance some of them could be doing porn to pay for their educations. I wrote poetry and songs and sold them to local bands to pay for my education and I had it a lot easier than other students but there is a strong possibly doing porn might prevent them from doing other jobs later in life because they are not taken seriously. Hailey’s Uncle told me a few years back there was a porn star who was trying to get into politics that failed because other politicians used her career against her. Vince McMahon won't rehire Chyna because she is doing porn but has no problem hiring former Playboy models.

Regardless of how we feel we both know a lot of porn stars are going to struggle crossing over to the mainstream because of people with TinaC’s perspective. That’s why I highly doubt America, Canada, United Kingdom and America will ever have a President or Prime Minister that used to do porn. They have as much of a chance as Peter Garrett does of becoming Prime Minister or Jello Biafra becoming President which I think would be fun. I’m sure there are a lot of porn stars that do things on the side and it is wrong of people to assume they don’t. When my Fiancée was doing modelling she was also the lead vocalist of a band and played lead guitar which a lot of people did not know.

As for filling my head with violent images I justify that because I want to become a horror writer like my idols Stephen King, Bret Easton Ellis and Robert Bloch. I’ve watched enough horror movies that nothing scares me anymore and I laugh at them because I know they are fake. Freddy Krueger was hilarious at times and Chucky was too. I like two very different extremes. Horror and romance and I often write Hailey poems and songs which she says are adorable and then I turn around and write some very twisted material that scares the ♥♥♥♥ out of people. It does not mean I have the urge to pick up a gun or a knife and start killing people and I don’t find it funny when it is real.

My main love in life (apart from my Fiancée of course) is music and I don’t know about you but there is nothing more attractive than when Hailey sings to me.

Theres an awful lot of judgement, prejudice and ignorance in the above post.

Why?

Cos not only do you not know any pornstars so how you come to this conclusion is unknown, but to blanketly state a majority want fame and attention
Well where did you get that judgement from?

Do you know any?

If you think only mostly perverts watch porn then I don't now what to tell you. You must be living in a bubble. Check the latter channels on any satellite or cable subscription. 100s of channels. Porn is one of the most viewed things on the Internet. That's like when men say to their daughters 'if you watch that britney spears, you will grow up to be a slut'

Just because you don't do something or wouldn't be motivated to do something, doesn't give you the right to judge or guess the motivation of others for that same thing.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I honestly don't see a problem with the porn industry, although I don't think I would want to be a part of it. A great movie about the porn industry is Boogie Nights, as it paints a pretty good picture of what it is all about. People get into porn because of two things: the money or the sex. Either way, I don't really see it as shameful. I don't see it as classless. Many of these girls are just trying to make it in the world, and this is a more fun way to work than selling overpriced T-shirts at Banana Republic. But it also has a dark side that is best avoided.

Whether or not you agree, porn does objectify women pretty shamelessly. Although it's not a crime to do so, I'd say it could be holding us back in some ways. When you're watching a porn video, you are not pondering what the girl (or the guy's) hopes and dreams are. You are simply objectifying them as the object of your fantasy. Watching porn in small doses won't warp your sense of reality, but porn in excess could cause some serious problems.

I'm not going to say that pron is evil or the devil, but it is not exactly the moral high ground when it comes to a career. And there is plenty risk involved when it comes to STDs and such. It can be fun to watch once in awhile from the viewer's perspective, but it is important to form real relationships as well, instead of this strange sexual idolatry. Porn is what it is, and love it or hate it, it will be around as long as there is a demand for it.

Yep, this is a pretty balanced view I think.

Everything in moderation. I can't imagine ever watching it in anything but small doses though, and half the time I will turn it off after 10 minutes or less...it gets boring pretty quickly, and the music in some of them just makes me laugh more than anything.

I don't know how people can get addicted to it, though I do understand the underlying reasons for the addiction.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I know that you know it is all fake, and so do I. I'm not suggesting that you don't. What I'm saying is that you are still filling your head with disturbing images...which I personally believe does have an effect on the mind, regardless of whether the person is conscious of it or not. That's my personal feeling though, so you can take it or leave it of course. I cannot prove it with any hard evidence.

I just don't see how it is any different to filling your head with junk food porn?



Very sweet.

Okay. That's cool. I know a lot of people have strong opinions on horror and action movies and you have every right to have your opinion. I just like the movies, TV shows and books but I would never let my daughter watch them. She is only eight and they would give her nightmares.

I guess we will just agree to disagree on that subject. lol

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I know that you know it is all fake, and so do I. I'm not suggesting that you don't. What I'm saying is that you are still filling your head with disturbing images...which I personally believe does have an effect on the mind, regardless of whether the person is conscious of it or not. That's my personal feeling though, so you can take it or leave it of course. I cannot prove it with any hard evidence.

I just don't see how it is any different to filling your head with junk food porn?

Very true. Human beings we desensitise our selves. This is how soldiers are trained to kill and not feel bad about it

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Okay. That's cool. I know a lot of people have strong opinions on horror and action movies and you have every right to have your opinion. I just like the movies, TV shows and books but I would never let my daughter watch them. She is only eight and they would give her nightmares.

I guess we will just agree to disagree on that subject. lol

Sure.

Hey, I used to absolutely LOVE graphic gore flicks when I was a teenager. Couldn't get enough of it. Horror films galore it was in my house. Then I started realizing how much humans love violence, and really started to think about that, and it really started to become quite a weird thing to me.

We have always loved violence. Even in roman times, people would gather in a stadium and watch slaves be torn to pieces by lions and gladiators. People would gather to watch criminals be beheaded in france in the 16th century, and that still goes on in america today where the death penalty prevails.

Don't you find that really freaky? Humans are freaks.

Anyway, I re-sensitized my mind, and now I can't watch anything horror. I really noticed how much it disturbed my mind. I didn't notice at the time because I was so desensitized to it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Very true. Human beings we desensitise our selves. This is how soldiers are trained to kill and not feel bad about it

Yep, and it's abnormal. Humans are not supposed to be able to kill people and not feel anything about it. If you kill someone, it is a big thing...but they can't have that in the army, so they turn them into machines...break them down. Even hunters will admit that initially they hated killing their prey. It had to be done though, but it took a while to get used to it.

In the Russian army, they will rape the boys for the first two years they are there to break them, and commit other atrocities all in the name of building an army of soldiers.

[GaryMichaels]

You sound like my Mother lol

I am not saying that you are old but she told me she used to love horror and thriller movies when she was younger too but when she got older she couldn't watch them anymore because of all the violence going on around the world. My Fiancée used to love watching horror movies too but after what happened she is not really into them much anymore. She does occasionally watch them though and she reads my short stories.

I think violence is something that should be kept on TV and in books. When it happens in the real world I don't find it entertaining. I read there was a bloke a few years back that copied all the murder scenes in the N.O.E.S films and another that copied the murder scenes in the American Psycho novel and I find that disturbing.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

You sound like my Mother lol

I am not saying that you are old but she told me she used to love horror and thriller movies when she was younger too but when she got older she couldn't watch them anymore because of all the violence going on around the world. My Fiancée used to love watching horror movies too but after what happened she is not really into them much anymore. She does occasionally watch them though and she reads my short stories.

I think violence is something that should be kept on TV and in books. When it happens in the real world I don't find it entertaining. I read there was a bloke a few years back that copied all the murder scenes in the N.O.E.S films and another that copied the murder scenes in the American Psycho novel and I find that disturbing.

On one hand, I think writing horror can be an excellent way to cathart, especially to get out any depraved fantasies you may have in your own head...(and I'm not just speaking of you here Gary, I think we all have that dark aspect to our psyches.)

Could Clive Barker be so good at what he does if those things didn't genuinely go on in his mind? If he didn't get them out, imagine what would happen?

I think it can be good for a writer to cathart this way, I'm just not sure it's good for the reader to put it in their heads, as entertaining as it is.

But yeah, I'm happy for us to agree to disagree.

[JSB]

Agreed 100%. I think it's fine to live one's life with a more conservative approach to sex, but to shame others, male or female, for enjoying sex, is repugnant. (I do think it is legitimate to criticize people who use or emotionally manipulate others for sex, but this is a completely different issue).

I think this happens for two possible reasons:

1. They have absorbed the twisted mentality of "conventional morality" that shames women for enjoying their own sexuality.

2. They find the idea of sexuality liberated women threatening to their own power: if there are women who freely enjoy and engage in sex, it reduces the power & influence other women could exercise from withholding sex in a relationship.

Originally Posted by Agota

Please forgive me for being blunt, but I think that women who slut-shame other women are the ones who have no class

[ssandra]

I was going to comment here, but Agota and Elucidate already said everything that I would have wanted to say...

Tnx girls!

[ssandra]

I personally can see a lot wrong with the porn industry as it stands now. There are things going on in that industry that are simply not right.

There is no social control about using girls that are high on cocaine or other crap for example.

I think there should be.

however, just because there are things going on that are not ok, doesn't mean that the entire idea of porn itself is not ok.

As with everything in life, moderate yourself. But that is true for going to church as well, so that is no argument to not watch porn at all

Gary; of course it is perfectly alright for you to not want to watch porn. Everybody has their own likes and dislikes.
I think it is great that you keep your daughter away from horror and slasher movies.

For your own education, and especially since you want to write, it might be worth it to look up some blogs or articles about or by porn stars. It might give you a different point of view that you could use in one of your books.

The one reason why I love Steven King is because his human characters are so real. They are real human beings. They are not stereotypes, but complex as every human being is.
And that is what draws you into his stories so easily. It is not about the monsters, the scary... that is almost an afterthought. It is about the people in it... and what goes through them when they encounter the scary...

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Theres an awful lot of judgement, prejudice and ignorance in the above post.

Why?

Cos not only do you not know any pornstars so how you come to this conclusion is unknown, but to blanketly state a majority want fame and attention
Well where did you get that judgement from?

Do you know any?

If you think only mostly perverts watch porn then I don't now what to tell you. You must be living in a bubble. Check the latter channels on any satellite or cable subscription. 100s of channels. Porn is one of the most viewed things on the Internet. That's like when men say to their daughters 'if you watch that britney spears, you will grow up to be a slut'

Just because you don't do something or wouldn't be motivated to do something, doesn't give you the right to judge or guess the motivation of others for that same thing.

I don’t know how I missed this post but I’ll reply to it now.

It is a fact that the majority of people that get into acting want attention and fame and anybody who says they don’t are lying or shouldn’t be pursuing a career in this field. I have met a ton of musicians over the years and they all want their songs to be heard, to follow in the footsteps of their idols and it is pretty obvious that porn stars want the same thing. There is nothing wrong with wanting fame and attention. I believe at some point in everybody’s life they have wanted this but to deny it is downright hypocritical or they wouldn’t be in front of a camera in the first place.

I don’t personally know any porn stars but I know some singers, musicians, actors, models and even politicians. My Fiancée knows Peter Garrett (of Midnight Oil) as Uncle Peter because he was a close friend of her Father. One of my best friends is friends with Jessinta Campbell and her cousin went to school with her. I am not going to name drop everybody I know but I can say without a doubt all of them do what they do because they want fame and attention. I don't watch porn but I could probably name a few who are supposedly in love with my Fiancée’s Uncle.

I am aware there are normal people (mainly blokes) that watch porn but I live in the real world pal and let me tell you there are some seriously messed up people out there. My Fiancée and I were paid moderators on a music channel’s forum for close to three years and we came cross some very sick and twisted individuals who posted pictures of bent and infected penises, surgery, people peeing and pooping in the mouths of other people, people having sex with animals, people sticking things up their bums etc. Most of the pictures made my Fiancée spew and I came very close to doing the same thing. This was all started by one woman’s obsession with an artist.

We have Foxtel and to my knowledge we only have two porn channels and you have to subscribe to them to make them work. I’m not saying porn is not popular here but I would say it is more popular in countries like America because they have more people and more channels. I know porn is one of the most popular things on the internet and so are cooking recipes, music and celebrity gossip. I am not judging the porn stars for doing what they do but I strongly believe the majority of people who watch porn watch it because they can't get girlfriends and that pays these woman’s wages. It’s just like saying the majority of people that watch porn are males.

From a business point of view is it a smart move to target this audience.

I have never physically came into contact with one woman that admits to watching porn and most of my friends are females and have the same perspective of the industry as my Fiancée. They say porn is degrading to women as it objectifies them and gives men the impression they are nothing more than sex objects. I don’t necessarily agree with this view but it is still very common even in this day and age where sex is everywhere. My opinion is each their own. If you want to watch porn watch it if you don’t like me that is perfectly fine. It’s the same thing as people who watch horror movies and people who don’t and there is no disregarding how popular horror movies and novels are.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by elucidate

On one hand, I think writing horror can be an excellent way to cathart, especially to get out any depraved fantasies you may have in your own head...(and I'm not just speaking of you here Gary, I think we all have that dark aspect to our psyches.)

Could Clive Barker be so good at what he does if those things didn't genuinely go on in his mind? If he didn't get them out, imagine what would happen?

I think it can be good for a writer to cathart this way, I'm just not sure it's good for the reader to put it in their heads, as entertaining as it is.

But yeah, I'm happy for us to agree to disagree.

I am a huge fan of Clive Barker’s work and love the Hellraiser, Candyman and Nightbreed movies. I have to admit though the last few Hellraiser movies have been lacking and it would be great if Clive took over the series again and put it back on track. Hellraiser 1, 2, 3 and 4 were all classics in my opinion but the only remotely decent film I have seen after them was Hellseeker and even that paled in comparison to the original four films. Clive Barker has a very twisted mind and there is no telling what would have happened if he didn’t get that out.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I personally can see a lot wrong with the porn industry as it stands now. There are things going on in that industry that are simply not right.

There is no social control about using girls that are high on cocaine or other crap for example.

I think there should be.

however, just because there are things going on that are not ok, doesn't mean that the entire idea of porn itself is not ok.

As with everything in life, moderate yourself. But that is true for going to church as well, so that is no argument to not watch porn at all

Gary; of course it is perfectly alright for you to not want to watch porn. Everybody has their own likes and dislikes.
I think it is great that you keep your daughter away from horror and slasher movies.

For your own education, and especially since you want to write, it might be worth it to look up some blogs or articles about or by porn stars. It might give you a different point of view that you could use in one of your books.

The one reason why I love Steven King is because his human characters are so real. They are real human beings. They are not stereotypes, but complex as every human being is.
And that is what draws you into his stories so easily. It is not about the monsters, the scary... that is almost an afterthought. It is about the people in it... and what goes through them when they encounter the scary...

As a former cocaine and speed addict I think that is an issue that needs to be addressed too and it is probably no different than wrestlers who use steroids. These companies should be monitoring what their workers are doing and shouldn’t be employing women if they are using these substances. The right thing to do would be to report them to the police. Perhaps the companies themselves should be held responsible too if they know their employees are doing this.

Thanks for the advice Ssandra

I will consider looking into that and using it for one of my novels. Most of my characters are partially based on my Fiancée and friends but I occasionally have some stereotypes in there because they can easily be used as devices like you see in most eighties horror movies. I always make the protagonists and antagonists the most complex and don’t write too much background on characters I am going to kill off early in the book because my old English Teacher said it was a waste of time. There is a book by Stephen King called ‘On Writing’ and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to be a writer.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Thanks for the advice Ssandra

I will consider looking into that and using it for one of my novels. Most of my characters are partially based on my Fiancée and friends but I occasionally have some stereotypes in there because they can easily be used as devices like you see in most eighties horror movies. I always make the protagonists and antagonists the most complex and don’t write too much background on characters I am going to kill off early in the book because my old English Teacher said it was a waste of time. There is a book by Stephen King called ‘On Writing’ and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to be a writer.

Yes, I have that one as well...

Part of what I like about Stephen King is that none of his characters (even those who get killed very soon) are "just background".
Although he doesn't write pages about them (although sometimes he does), you do get a sense of them being a real person, with sometimes even a surprising and interesting (not expected) fact.

[Acting Like Godot]

Late to the thread, but anyway here is my two cents worth.

I think that joining the porn industry is a stupid idea (unless of course you don't have better options).

There you are, having sex with all kinds of people whom you do not really know. Except that you know that they too are porn actors who regularly have sex with all kind of people they do not know. What does this add up to? Very high risk of getting STDs.

Secondly, your shelf life as a porn actress is probably going to be relatively short-lived. When you're young and attractive and your boobs look good, you can be a porn actress. As you grow older, it gets tougher and tougher. Ask CroMagna (a poster here, who worked as a stripper until she lost confidence. Why did she lose confidence? Couldn't stay slim enough, over time).

The other problem is that your experience is not transferable. Say you spend five years acting in porn flicks. At the end of the five years, you don't look so hot anymore and it's time to move on. The problem is that your five years of experience are not easily transferable into another industry (except prostitution - but there again, your age works against you). You haven't got five years of experience that will help you gain a new job as a teacher, pilot, nurse or business entrepreneur.

Stating "Porn actress, had sex with 200 men over the past 5 years" is not only irrelevant on the CV for most jobs in the world, it also attracts raised eyebrows. Whatever the personal views of the interviewer may be, if you're going for a new job at any kind of organisation that cares about its professsional image and reputation, this is going to work against you. If you can't see it, try to picture these in the news and you'll see:

"Ministry of Education Hires Ex-Porn Actress to Develop School Syllabus"
"Microsoft Hires Ex-Porn Star for Customer Relations Role"
"Ex-Porn Star Hired as Secretary to Congressman James Edwards"

Etc. In the above examples, I have exaggerated the point so that it comes across more clearly ... but I do trust the point gets across now.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

There you are, having sex with all kinds of people whom you do not really know. Except that you know that they too are porn actors who regularly have sex with all kind of people they do not know. What does this add up to? Very high risk of getting STDs.

Secondly, your shelf life as a porn actress is probably going to be relatively short-lived. When you're young and attractive and your boobs look good, you can be a porn actress. As you grow older, it gets tougher and tougher. Ask CroMagna (a poster here, who worked as a stripper until she lost confidence. Why did she lose confidence? Couldn't stay slim enough, over time).

The other problem is that your experience is not transferable. Say you spend five years acting in porn flicks. At the end of the five years, you don't look so hot anymore and it's time to move on. The problem is that your five years of experience are not easily transferable into another industry (except prostitution - but there again, your age works against you). You haven't got five years of experience that will help you gain a new job as a teacher, pilot, nurse or business entrepreneur.

Stating "Porn actress, had sex with 200 men over the past 5 years" is not only irrelevant on the CV for most jobs in the world, it also attracts raised eyebrows. Whatever the personal views of the interviewer may be, if you're going for a new job at any kind of organisation that cares about its professsional image and reputation, this is going to work against you. If you can't see it, try to picture these in the news and you'll see:

"Ministry of Education Hires Ex-Porn Actress to Develop School Syllabus"
"Microsoft Hires Ex-Porn Star for Customer Relations Role"
"Ex-Porn Star Hired as Secretary to Congressman James Edwards"

Etc. In the above examples, I have exaggerated the point so that it comes across more clearly ... but I do trust the point gets across now.

I think there are some points you make here that are true, and some that reflect a lack of understanding.

I'll explain what I mean here...

Whilst it's true that 'porn star' does not look too good on a CV I don't think many people who go into it would even bother putting it there in the first place!

Most people know that it is looked down on in mainstream society, and for many, once they go down that road they never go back to regular jobs as it's too hard for them to deal with a significantly lower wage doing something that isn't fun for them, after having had that experience.

This is why many porn stars, who are smart, save as much as they can, don't get into drugs and start up their own entrepreneurial business on the side, funded by their time in porn. Yes, it has a shelf life, which is why it's best to make as much as possible in the first few years, invest some, and build up something on the side, so they don't have to go back to the regular world of working 9-5. Not all are smart this way of course, but I don't think they are dumb enough to put porn star on the CV when they do go back to regular work life.

With the STD thing...many if not most porn stars do have some form of STD, and most are treatable these days, except for AIDS and Herpes, though even AIDS is manageable these days.

I'm pretty sure they make them have a test before they go into it...regular testing in the porn industry is mandatory. STD's are what they are, and whilst most people who don't live this lifestyle see STD's as "dirty" and will label a person who has it as being 'dirty', even if the person was a virgin before they caught it...it's an unnecessary stigma.

Viruses are a natural part of life...and although STD's are avoidable, when there is medication for many of them, and testing to see who has what, then people are able to make a choice as to whether they care if they get certain treatable things, that won't stay with them or not.

It might not be the thing most people would choose to do, and it isn't advisable to live this way certainly, it still remains the individuals choice as to whether they are willing to put up with an uncomfortable but treatable situation, for an experience that is both fun and lucrative for them.

I know that's a bit of a controversial thing to say given that most people are adamant about strictly wearing protection at all times, and many porn films will have actors wearing condoms, but many won't as well. If individuals are prepared to put up with some discomfort and take medication to treat whatever may or may not flare up, then it's their choice.

[ssandra]

I keep wanting to react to posts here, only to find that you (Elucidate) already said everything I wanted to say, only better!!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Whilst it's true that 'porn star' does not look too good on a CV I don't think many people who go into it would even bother putting it there in the first place!

I know. Then you have to explain to the employer what you have been doing for the past five years.

If you lie and say I was actually working in X, Y, Z, then you run the risk of being caught out and exposed, eg a few technical questions about your knowledge of the field.

Most people know that it is looked down on in mainstream society, and for many, once they go down that road they never go back to regular jobs as it's too hard for them to deal with a significantly lower wage doing something that isn't fun for them, after having had that experience.

This is why many porn stars, who are smart, save as much as they can, don't get into drugs and start up their own entrepreneurial business on the side, funded by their time in porn. Yes, it has a shelf life, which is why it's best to make as much as possible in the first few years, invest some, and build up something on the side, so they don't have to go back to the regular world of working 9-5. Not all are smart this way of course, but I don't think they are dumb enough to put porn star on the CV when they do go back to regular work life.

Compare this to someone who spent a few years in a regular job, gaining experience AND saving money, and then launching their own business, with the help of the relevant experience they gained during those years of that particular industry.

With the STD thing...many if not most porn stars do have some form of STD, and most are treatable these days, except for AIDS and Herpes, though even AIDS is manageable these days.

Marvellous.

I guess we have very different thinking here. I turned down very lucrative jobs in Hong Kong, just because I don't like the air pollution.

And here - you say AIDS is an acceptable occupational hazard.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I know. Then you have to explain to the employer what you have been doing for the past five years.

If you lie and say I was actually working in X, Y, Z, then you run the risk of being caught out and exposed, eg a few technical questions about your knowledge of the field.

I would think that most people who would consider porn an option do not consider a "normal" job an option.

So it is more likely that they'll start their own business, or do something different in the porn industry.

Compare this to someone who spent a few years in a regular job, gaining experience AND saving money, and then launching their own business, with the help of the relevant experience they gained during those years of that particular industry.

Yes. There might be better ways if your end result is only to create your own business.

However, if your goal in life is to have fun, make money, be entertained and love your life, going there via porn might be a very valid way.

Not everybody has a huge end goal and schedule their life around that. Some people prefer to live in the moment.

I guess we have very different thinking here. I turned down very lucrative jobs in Hong Kong, just because I don't like the air pollution.

And here - you say AIDS is an acceptable occupational hazard.

And I choose to live in Mexico City because I love it here so much, regardless of the air pollution...

Different people have different values in life. There is nothing wrong with respecting that.

[ZephyrusX]

I don't know ♥♥♥♥ all about the porn industry, but I suspect you actually do learn a lot of skills working in the sex industry. Perhaps more interpersonal skills more so than technical skills, but then, it is easier to teach people technical skills more so than interpersonal skills. If someone came in and convincingly proved to me that their stint in the sex industry allowed them to develop good interpersonal skills, I wouldn't hold it against them as a hiring manager. I'd be rather impressed, actually. Though I'm not sure why. I suppose because they would unabashedly be blowing off the social stigma attached to the sex industry and demonstrating to me that they have a high level of self-worth and confidence.