[ADULT] Split thread: Porn (actors, effects, attitudes toward)

[scared]

I just want to express my opinion which some of you may find strong but it is how I feel.

I believe Porn is very destructive to all involved. I wonder why the Porn industry is not investigated for exploitation of young women. I find it very hard to believe that someone would want to be in Porn without the huge enticement of a lot of money, especially for someone who may be in a desperate situation.
Many young girls (to me someone 18 yrs old is a girl) are easily influenced; a girl from a poor family who could not buy the things many girls can may think that this is an easy way to get a large amount of money. I have watched Porn out of curiosity and I usually feel sorry for the girl. There is no way that someone would really like being subjected to the acts they are subjected to. Some of you say they just love sex; that is such a line of crap. Studies have shown that they do not like sex and actually many of the women are lesbians (which I find nothing wrong with this, just that some very stupid men actually believe that these women are just super hot and can't get enough). Perhaps some end up addicted to sex which could happen and that would be very sad for the girl. I would think that if they are not addicted to drugs when they start that a big majority of them end up addicted. I don't believe Porn has anything to do with a woman's sexuality, just as a prostitute who I am sure does not enjoy having sex with every kind of man, they just need the money and have sadly fallen into this trap. Society is always "pushing the envelope", I feel that Porn is going to prove to be very detrimental to women and perhaps men too. Young children as young as 11 and 12 are able to find ways to watch Porn; how can they possibly get a healthy opinion of sex and women at that age. More and more women have eating disorders and women who are perfectly fine the way they are, are now getting boob jobs. It is beyond my imagination to believe that they would be attractive to a man, but the women are led to believe that they need to have huge tits and to dress sexy at all times. I have a hard time believing that the main reason why a man would want to have sex with a woman is if she has a great body. I have had my experiences and have had sex with men with great bodies and men with not so great bodies, and it doesn't have anything to do with the desire; there is so much more involved. I will stop now as I could go on and on. I do not see how Porn is a positive influence to any man or woman.

[ZephyrusX]

In principle, I have nothing against people having sex for money, but I think the sex industry has more to do with principles, and if we blatantly ignore the materialistic realities that sex workers face in order to promote our own ideology, how is that any different than objectifying people for our own purposes in other contexts?

The majority of women in the porn industry are lower-socioeconomic young women, who against popular opinion, don't actually make a lot of money. They may make more as opposed to working in some dead-end, minimum job that they may qualify for, but they are still not making a lot of money. They also have no power to influence what goes on the set. On one of the blogs I was reading, sex workers were trying to implement some system that would detect HIV, but the managers more or less shot the proposal down and threatened to harm them.

Prostitution on the other hand... The average age for a female prostitute entering the sex industry in Edmonton is 15. This is technically against the law, for starters, and really, how much power can a 15 year old have in the sex industry? Again, the average age is 18-25 where the majority are women from lower socio-economic conditions. Most female prostitutes are controlled by a pimp. Prostitutes have one the of highest murder rates in Canada.

From the personal responsibility perspective, I suppose one can say that these sex workers chose to enter the industry, but for the most part, I believe those were disempowered choices that resulted due to a lack of internal and external resources. If i were going to watch porn or have sex with a prostitute, I would prefer if the sex worker made an empowered choice to enter the industry and had the power to influence their labour conditions.

Simply reducing the issue to 'people ought to have the right to have sex for work' grossly simplifies the issue to a disrespectful level. It sounds very middle class and white. They also ought to have the right to negotiate their working conditions so that they can protect their physically, emotional and spiritual well being.

Originally Posted by scared

Many young girls (to me someone 18 yrs old is a girl) are easily influenced; a girl from a poor family who could not buy the things many girls can may think that this is an easy way to get a large amount of money. I have watched Porn out of curiosity and I usually feel sorry for the girl.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by scared

I just want to express my opinion which some of you may find strong but it is how I feel.

I believe Porn is very destructive to all involved. I wonder why the Porn industry is not investigated for exploitation of young women. I find it very hard to believe that someone would want to be in Porn without the huge enticement of a lot of money, especially for someone who may be in a desperate situation.

It can be very destructive to all involved. If people are being self-destructive at the time, then obviously this will only add to it. I do think that it has a shelf life, and if people stay in the business too long then it can really have detrimental effects to their emotional, physical and spiritual well being.

Obviously money is a big part of why people choose to do porn. If someone is in a desperate situation then it would seem like the logical conclusion. I have even been in situations where I've considered it for this reason, though I have ended up taking the crap job instead.

It still comes back to the individuals personal responsability and choice to do with their own bodies what they want. Many who do porn don't like it...many do though. Just because people have examined porn to expose the destructive side of it, and found people to speak about how much they didn't like it, which coincides with their agenda, does not mean there aren't as many people who do like it, who weren't chosen to be interviewed, as they didn't fit in with the agenda of the interviewers.

I still think there are a percentage of women who do porn because they honestly enjoy sex and like that they get paid for doing something they love.
Yes, there is a shocking amount of girls who get into it who are desperate and that's a sad thing, and it doesn't do them any good...but I don't think it can be said that this is the case for all who work in porn.

Many young girls (to me someone 18 yrs old is a girl) are easily influenced; a girl from a poor family who could not buy the things many girls can may think that this is an easy way to get a large amount of money. I have watched Porn out of curiosity and I usually feel sorry for the girl. There is no way that someone would really like being subjected to the acts they are subjected to.

Why? Because there is no way YOU would like to be subjected to that?

Some of you say they just love sex; that is such a line of crap. Studies have shown that they do not like sex and actually many of the women are lesbians (which I find nothing wrong with this, just that some very stupid men actually believe that these women are just super hot and can't get enough).

As I said above, there are some who don't like sex...and some who do. How do you know the studies were not biased or they didn't just choose women who didn't because the people doing the studies have a strong agenda to wipe out porn?

Perhaps some end up addicted to sex which could happen and that would be very sad for the girl. I would think that if they are not addicted to drugs when they start that a big majority of them end up addicted. I don't believe Porn has anything to do with a woman's sexuality, just as a prostitute who I am sure does not enjoy having sex with every kind of man, they just need the money and have sadly fallen into this trap.

I think this way about some people who get into porn, but I also think there really are some who do like sex and they choose to do this as an experiment or alternative to regular work. Most people don't like their jobs, whatever it is. A crap job is just as boring and unlikeable as another one...and porn and sex work is a job. They are just getting paid a bit more to do it. If you had to choose between a crap job that paid crap and a crap job that paid more, which would you choose?

Society is always "pushing the envelope", I feel that Porn is going to prove to be very detrimental to women and perhaps men too. Young children as young as 11 and 12 are able to find ways to watch Porn; how can they possibly get a healthy opinion of sex and women at that age. More and more women have eating disorders and women who are perfectly fine the way they are, are now getting boob jobs.

I agree that it is impossible to control, and the influences are undetermined as to how it will affect children. I remember watching porn at that age, and I think I have a pretty respectful attitude towards women. My point is that it will effect everyone differently and I don't think that it can ever be just one influence that determines a person attitude towards women and sex.

In regards to women's body issues, I think the fashion industry has more of an influence on young girls minds than porn does.

It is beyond my imagination to believe that they would be attractive to a man, but the women are led to believe that they need to have huge tits and to dress sexy at all times.

Many women are brainwashed by this, but again, this also comes down to their own inability to be able to reject those images and not work on the part of them that feels they need to please men all the time. That is something that if they all thought about, they don't have to fall into.

A general lack of self-awareness may be the issue here...and yes, I'm not saying it can't be destructive. I don't think any environment where a person is only valued for their boobs and vagina can be very good for their self-esteem...but it is still their choice to be there.

I have a hard time believing that the main reason why a man would want to have sex with a woman is if she has a great body. I have had my experiences and have had sex with men with great bodies and men with not so great bodies, and it doesn't have anything to do with the desire; there is so much more involved. I will stop now as I could go on and on. I do not see how Porn is a positive influence to any man or woman.

I'm not really saying that it's a positive or a negative influence to men or women, but we are all voyeurs and whether you want to admit it or not...watching people have sex can arouse most people. It's entertainment.

For years I thought the same way you did, and it contradicted what my body was telling me when I did happen to catch glimpses of it at friends places, or wherever. Examining that aspect of myself led to some interesting counter arguments.

[James81]

Originally Posted by scared

I just want to express my opinion which some of you may find strong but it is how I feel.

I believe Porn is very destructive to all involved. I wonder why the Porn industry is not investigated for exploitation of young women. I find it very hard to believe that someone would want to be in Porn without the huge enticement of a lot of money, especially for someone who may be in a desperate situation.
Many young girls (to me someone 18 yrs old is a girl) are easily influenced; a girl from a poor family who could not buy the things many girls can may think that this is an easy way to get a large amount of money. I have watched Porn out of curiosity and I usually feel sorry for the girl. There is no way that someone would really like being subjected to the acts they are subjected to. Some of you say they just love sex; that is such a line of crap. Studies have shown that they do not like sex and actually many of the women are lesbians (which I find nothing wrong with this, just that some very stupid men actually believe that these women are just super hot and can't get enough). Perhaps some end up addicted to sex which could happen and that would be very sad for the girl. I would think that if they are not addicted to drugs when they start that a big majority of them end up addicted. I don't believe Porn has anything to do with a woman's sexuality, just as a prostitute who I am sure does not enjoy having sex with every kind of man, they just need the money and have sadly fallen into this trap. Society is always "pushing the envelope", I feel that Porn is going to prove to be very detrimental to women and perhaps men too. Young children as young as 11 and 12 are able to find ways to watch Porn; how can they possibly get a healthy opinion of sex and women at that age. More and more women have eating disorders and women who are perfectly fine the way they are, are now getting boob jobs. It is beyond my imagination to believe that they would be attractive to a man, but the women are led to believe that they need to have huge tits and to dress sexy at all times. I have a hard time believing that the main reason why a man would want to have sex with a woman is if she has a great body. I have had my experiences and have had sex with men with great bodies and men with not so great bodies, and it doesn't have anything to do with the desire; there is so much more involved. I will stop now as I could go on and on. I do not see how Porn is a positive influence to any man or woman.

Couple of things about this...

First of all, the woman CHOOSES to do it. Just because someone dangles money in front of your face does NOT mean that you somehow were tricked or coerced into doing something. If someone offered you a million dollars to kill someone, would you do it and then blame the person who offered you the money? No, that would be ludicrous.

You are trying to make these women out to be victims, and the truth is, the only person who can make ANYBODY a victim is the person them-self. And that applies to anything (not just porn).

The other thing to think about is this...most men are visual creatures by nature (some moreso than others). For me? I've discovered that I like the VISUAL aspects of sex more than the sex itself. In other words, the exciting part of sex, for me, is what I SEE...not necessarily what I feel or hear (although the feeling the hearing play a small factor in things). In other words, I've discovered that I can be completely sexually satisfied by porn. I do not need to go out and find a woman to have sex with to meet my sexual needs (although that's a load of fun to do ). Porn/masturbation meet that need for me. (Now, the intimacy part is what i crave from a relationship...I'd rather have a backrub/rub her back than I would have sex with a lover...it's weird, and it's caused issues with me in relationships.)

At the end of the day, though, it comes down to how you process the world. Visual and auditory people will really like porn. Kinesthetic peeps are the people who are most likely to have issues with porn (simply because they don't understand it).

[ZephyrusX]

In Edmonton, young women (average age 15) are deliberately targeted by the prostitution industry because they are in a vulnerable position where they are more likely to make disempowered choices as result of their relative lack of internal and external resources. Although I agree with you that people choose to enter the sex industry, that personal responsibility in no way condones the exploitation and marginalization of sex workers. If you enter prostitution and are beaten or killed during your career, that is victimization. Sex workers have rights as well and do count as human beings. To say otherwise would amount to victim blaming, in my mind. It is basically saying, ‘Well you entered the industry! You get what you have coming to you!’

I think we can talk meaningfully of personal responsibility without victim blaming. I think focusing upon sex workers as victims takes away a bit of their dignity in a way as it overlooks the tremendous amount of self-respect and potential agency that they have. In saying that, blatantly ignoring or trivializing the realities that they face is also disrespectful.

Originally Posted by James81

Couple of things about this...

First of all, the woman CHOOSES to do it. Just because someone dangles money in front of your face does NOT mean that you somehow were tricked or coerced into doing something. If someone offered you a million dollars to kill someone, would you do it and then blame the person who offered you the money? No, that would be ludicrous.

You are trying to make these women out to be victims, and the truth is, the only person who can make ANYBODY a victim is the person them-self. And that applies to anything (not just porn).

[James81]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

In Edmonton, young women (average age 15) are deliberately targeted by the prostitution industry because they are in a vulnerable position where they are more likely to make disempowered choices as result of their relative lack of internal and external resources. Although I agree with you that people choose to enter the sex industry, that personal responsibility in no way condones the exploitation and marginalization of sex workers. If you enter prostitution and are beaten or killed during your career, that is victimization. Sex workers have rights as well and do count as human beings. To say otherwise would amount to victim blaming, in my mind. It is basically saying, ‘Well you entered the industry! You get what you have coming to you!’

I think we can talk meaningfully of personal responsibility without victim blaming. I think focusing upon sex workers as victims takes away a bit of their dignity in a way as it overlooks the tremendous amount of self-respect and potential agency that they have. In saying that, blatantly ignoring or trivializing the realities that they face is also disrespectful.

I do have to say that to enter an illegal profession expecting to be treated fairly and with dignity is a bit of a silly presumption, don't you think? I don't mean to trivialize the choices these people make, but on the other hand I think most people are aware that when they enter certain professions, there are certain risks involved. I think we, as humans, tend to blind ourselves to those risks, or we think that it won't happen to us (for some reason we humans like to think we're invincible). To become a drug dealer, you are going to take certain risks. To become a prostitute you are also involving yourself in certain risks. Does it make it your fault when those bad things happen to you? No, we don't ever blame the victim. But it IS your responsibility and you are aware, on some level, of the risks involved with such choices.

And, unless someone is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to do something, you are ultimately making the choice, even if to make the OTHER choice would involve great suffering of some sort. I also don't mean to say that in a judgmental "well you made the choice, so ♥♥♥♥ YOU" kind of way. I simply say it in a "this is a choice, and it's a choice you make, and it's ultimately a choice you are responsible for" kind of way. (Knowing that "responsible" does NOT EVER mean "blame" or "fault.")

[ZephyrusX]

May be. Remember that we are talking about 15 year olds though. Murdered Aboriginal prostitutes in Canada is a big problem, and although they are probably aware of this (then again, may be not), most of them probably don't think that it will ever happen to them. I think this attests to the ability that young adults have to conduct a proper risk-benefit analysis. I think having the internal and external resources involves more than risk-benefit analysis, however. I suspect a lot of 15 years olds enter the profession thinking they will find a certain amount of wealth, glamour, and self-worth. Of course, you can find these things elsewhere, but if you living in poverty, have low self-esteem and confidence, and lack the capacity to dream of better things and to follow though with it, you might very well opt for prostitution believing that it is the best choice available to you.

I think there is a very good reason why most sex workers are very young (15-25). It is not just that they are young and presumably more attractive. I think at that age they are easier to exploit.

Originally Posted by James81

I do have to say that to enter an illegal profession expecting to be treated fairly and with dignity is a bit of a silly presumption, don't you think? I don't mean to trivialize the choices these people make, but on the other hand I think most people are aware that when they enter certain professions, there are certain risks involved.

[James81]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

May be. Remember that we are talking about 15 year olds though. Murdered Aboriginal prostitutes in Canada is a big problem, and although they are probably aware of this (then again, may be not), most of them probably don't think that it will ever happen to them. I think this attests to the ability that young adults have to conduct a proper risk-benefit analysis. I think having the internal and external resources involves more than risk-benefit analysis, however. I suspect a lot of 15 years olds enter the profession thinking they will find a certain amount of wealth, glamour, and self-worth. Of course, you can find these things elsewhere, but if you living in poverty, have low self-esteem and confidence, and lack the capacity to dream of better things and to follow though with it, you might very well opt for prostitution believing that it is the best choice available to you.

I think there is a very good reason why most sex workers are very young (15-25). It is not just that they are young and presumably more attractive. I think at that age they are easier to exploit.

I think my response to this would get overly philosophical, mostly because I think that we, as people, react mostly to our environments anyway and even though we are always the ones making the choice, I do think that we make choices based on our environment and experiences and that can be more like an illusion of choice. In other words, beyond the realm of this discussion.

I can see your point about it being easier to exploit a young woman.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by James81

I do have to say that to enter an illegal profession expecting to be treated fairly and with dignity is a bit of a silly presumption, don't you think? I don't mean to trivialize the choices these people make, but on the other hand I think most people are aware that when they enter certain professions, there are certain risks involved. I think we, as humans, tend to blind ourselves to those risks, or we think that it won't happen to us (for some reason we humans like to think we're invincible). To become a drug dealer, you are going to take certain risks. To become a prostitute you are also involving yourself in certain risks. Does it make it your fault when those bad things happen to you? No, we don't ever blame the victim. But it IS your responsibility and you are aware, on some level, of the risks involved with such choices.

And, unless someone is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to do something, you are ultimately making the choice, even if to make the OTHER choice would involve great suffering of some sort. I also don't mean to say that in a judgmental "well you made the choice, so ♥♥♥♥ YOU" kind of way. I simply say it in a "this is a choice, and it's a choice you make, and it's ultimately a choice you are responsible for" kind of way. (Knowing that "responsible" does NOT EVER mean "blame" or "fault.")

The adolescent brain isn't fully formed and many adolescents are physiologically unable to see the consequences of their actions... the actual rate of development varies from individual to individual, of course, but generally the brain isn't actually finished developing until the mid-20s.

And that completely ignores the sociological issues that go into it, of which there are plenty.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

The adolescent brain isn't fully formed and many adolescents are physiologically unable to see the consequences of their actions... the actual rate of development varies from individual to individual, of course, but generally the brain isn't actually finished developing until the mid-20s.

And that completely ignores the sociological issues that go into it, of which there are plenty.

I'm not sure I buy into this completely. People used to rule entire kingdoms at the age of 9 years old. I find it strange to think that physiologically, a child used to be capable of ruling a kingdom at the age of 9 but is incapable of seeing consequences to their actions at the age of 15?

I'm not dismissing your argument entirely, I'm just not sure I buy into it totally.

[Criseyde]

Oh -- let's also not forget that many adolescents who get into prostitution are actually being trafficked, even here in the US.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm not sure I buy into this completely. People used to rule entire kingdoms at the age of 9 years old. I find it strange to think that physiologically, a child used to be capable of ruling a kingdom at the age of 9 but is incapable of seeing consequences to their actions at the age of 15?

I'm not dismissing your argument entirely, I'm just not sure I buy into it totally.

They had regents.

[James81]

Also, check out Piaget's stages of development:



She reasoned that consequences can be determined as early as 11 or 12. (i.e. "consider some outcomes")

[ZephyrusX]

That is my understanding too. Someone else always had the actual power; not the 9 year old.

Originally Posted by Criseyde

They had regents.

[ZephyrusX]

Do you think a 12 year old can do a proper risk-benefit analysis regarding the sex industry? Side note: I thought Piaget was a dude?

Most people in the porn industry leave within 2 or 3 years, which I suspect is due to a combination of simple maturation (they go to school, they find a better job, they start a family) and accumulation of knowledge (i.e they find out that they are not going to get the glamour they thought they were going to get. The sex industry sucks!).

I'm not sure to what extent the development of the brain plays a role in this. I have heard that the reason why teenagers do 'stupid' things is because the decision making areas of their brain are experiencing a massive influx of growth and change.

Originally Posted by James81

Also, check out Piaget's stages of development:



She reasoned that consequences can be determined as early as 11 or 12. (i.e. "consider some outcomes")

[James81]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Do you think a 12 year old can do a proper risk-benefit analysis regarding the sex industry? Side note: I thought Piaget was a dude?

Most people in the porn industry leave within 2 or 3 years, which I suspect is due to a combination of simple maturation (they go to school, they find a better job, they start a family) and accumulation of knowledge (i.e they find out that they are not going to get the glamour they thought they were going to get. The sex industry sucks!).

I'm not sure to what extent the development of the brain plays a role in this. I have heard that the reason why teenagers do 'stupid' things is because the decision making areas of their brain are experiencing a massive influx of growth and change.

Oops, Piaget WAS a dude. Had a brain-fart for a moment there.

As for why teenagers do "stupid" things, I think it really just has to do with the influx of new chemicals (specifically hormones and testosterone and estrogen and all that wonderful stuff).

No, I don't think a 12 year old is capable of making adult decisions (such as going into porn). I was just showing you that developmentally, a 15 year old is perfectly capable of reasoning consequences. Sure, it's not going to be ADULT reasoning, but they are capable of seeing consequences physiologically.

That doesn't mean that exploitation and stuff doesn't go on. I don't disagree with you on that front. I'm just saying that it's *still* a choice, even if the choice appears to the chooser as a lack of choice.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

This is one of the major problems in the world at the moment. People just expect things to be given to them and are not willing to put in the hard work and the effort to get them. There are thousands of lazy bastards in this country on the dole that should be off their asses working instead of watching TV. If it were easy to get the jobs I listed above there wouldn’t be so many people failing. It all comes down to integrity and that's what separates the successful from the unsuccessful. I currently work two jobs. One as a part time computer teacher and the other as a music journalist for a classic rock magazine and the only reason I got a job as the latter was because of my Fiancée’s father.

Becoming a music journalist in this country is not easy and unless you have the connections like I did you are going to struggle to even get an interview. There are thousands of jobs that are harder than being a porn star and let’s face it, it is not that hard to work out and stay in shape. Perhaps you need to look at some wrestling DVDs and see what kind of workouts people like John Cena do. If you saw the first season of Tough Enough there were people vomiting because they couldn't keep up and I know for a fact porn stars' workouts would pale in comparison to the working out wrestlers do.

If lazy people could get an education there wouldn't be so many dole bludgers

If it were easy to work out and stay in shape, there wouldn't be so many fat people. In the US, 60% of the population is overweight or obese.

You seem to contradict yourself. On the one hand you say your job was really hard to get and that you needed connections. You also say being a lawyer and a psychologist is hard. But on the other hand you say that people who don't have jobs are lazy parasites. Which one is it? Either it's easy to get a job and people are lazy if they don't have them, or it's hard to get a job and people aren't lazy if they don't have them. I maintain that it's hard to be a porn star. It's not just a matter of working out. You need to have a lot of charisma and sex appeal and you need to be good in bed, and most women are lousy in bed.

[scared]

Zephyrusx, I completely agree with you. I know that when I was 18 or 19,I made many very stupid decisions which affected me the rest of my life. It is amazing how some will defend Porn. Some still claim it's because they love sex, maybe the ones who are addicted. But even then, what would make a person want to have sex with many different partners on the internet. Something, is definitely screwed up here. There was one comment here in response to me saying why would they subject themselves to such acts and the reply was,"why because you wouldn't" Not on the internet, are you for real. Porn reduces sex to no more than how dogs act. Yes, I know men are visual and so are many women, so you have to look at people having sex in any which way, often degrading to women in order to satisfy that urge. I am sure that a man can masturbate without Porn, perhaps it is just quicker to have an orgasm, how lazy can you be? I have never judged women who are caught up in Porn, I only feel sorry for them, as the old saying goes, "how would you like your sister or daughter in Porn"

Regarding prostitution, my one daughter actually played with it for awhile, however she got busted by the police early on and it was a blessing. At the time she was 18, no money and dating a man who encouraged her to get into prostitution. She is a wonderful woman and now is married with two children. It is something she has to live with forever but I think she has forgiven herself. I have never told anyone about this until now but since no one here knows me I felt like telling you of this situation.

Some of you might think I am just a prude; but I have had many experiences in my life and I will never believe that Porn is harmless.

[ZephyrusX]

How do you feel about ethical porn, scared? If sex workers had access to fair wages, were protected from STDs and had a certain amount of control over their working situations (i.e 'I don't want to do this sex act'), would you still be against porn?

[scared]

Yes, there isn't anything that would make me think it is harmless. Even if the worker had some rights (which I highly doubt will ever happen) because they are so young and vulnerable. I personally would not want my boyfriend or husband viewing Porn. However, I do think that my boyfriend does on occasion.
It is such a draw, as humans we are all curious. I am older and it feels like an insult that an older man would be looking at 18 year olds having sex. I am sure Porn has caused many problems in relationships. So where is the positive? Just a means for men to jerk off quicker. It is so weird.

[ZephyrusX]

I think pleasure would be a benefit. I also get the impression that people are proponents of pornography because they value freedom. The freedom to enter the sex industry if so wish and the freedom to procure sexually explicit material if they so wish.

I think freedom can be a rather dubious concept in this regard though. Can you speak meaningfully of freedom if you make a choice because of poverty? Can you speak meaningfully of freedom if you are promised so-an-so in an employment opportunity, but then, find out that your working conditions are not as good as you were led to believe?

I don't have anything against ethical porn in theory. I'm skeptical as to how large the ethical porn industry is, however.

[ZephyrusX]

I do think that this is a problem. I`ve heard stories of young men thinking that cum shots are just normal routines involved in sex and just assume that their partner will tolerate or like it. In reality, they ought to really ask their partner what she (he) likes as I imagine a lot of people would find this really degrading. Porn (at least what I`ve seen) seems to privilege male sexuality as well.

I think this problem can be addressed in sex education though. Sex ed classes are really backwards. Some highschools still teach abstinence only. Even in Canada, the sex ed class I attended was not exactly all that helpful. It basically just taught basic anatomy and the stages during pregnancy. Oh, and someone whipped out a condom at one point.

I didn`t learn about female sexuality until my Fem 101 class in unviersity. It was also the first time I had the opportunity to talk about the ramifications that porn has on teen sexuality. Come on. I shouldnt have to pay 600 dollars and attend university to learn this stuff.

Originally Posted by scared

Society is always "pushing the envelope", I feel that Porn is going to prove to be very detrimental to women and perhaps men too. Young children as young as 11 and 12 are able to find ways to watch Porn; how can they possibly get a healthy opinion of sex and women at that age.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

That is my understanding too. Someone else always had the actual power; not the 9 year old.

I thought this as well.

Even these days, with presidents, it is usually the case that they are merely a puppet and the people behind the scenes pull his strings and tell him what to say at press conferences etc.

A 9 year old is not capable of taking on the responsabilities of running a whole country. They are there out of tradition more than anything. I think it's the same with the Dalai Lama isn't it? A child is born and donned the next Dalai Lama, until that one dies and the next one is born.

I might have watched "The Golden Child" too many times though(;

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by scared

There was one comment here in response to me saying why would they subject themselves to such acts and the reply was,"why because you wouldn't" Not on the internet, are you for real.

That was me.

All I was saying is that how do you really know that some women don't just like having sex like that...just because you don't? Maybe we got our wires crossed? I wasn't specifically speaking of just internet porn...there are still DVD's circulating. And yes...I am for real. Some people like to ♥♥♥♥ like dogs! It isn't called "doggy style" for nothing.

I'm sure you realize that different people like different things, and that just because it is this way for you and you don't like it, does that mean that others don't enjoy that sort of sex?

I've seen some women volunteer to experience having really rough and kinky sex, in public, with professional porn stars, because they viewed it and it turned them on and they wanted to know what it was like...they weren't coerced into it...they chose to do it.

[ZephyrusX]

The Eddy Murphy movie?

Ah, now that is something that will put me to sleep!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

The Eddy Murphy movie?

Ah, now that is something that will put me to sleep!

Does this mean you find Eddie yawnable?

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Does this mean you find Eddie yawnable?

I`m afraid so. I think I like his later work, but my brother got me to watch some of his older pieces (Golden Child), and if I recall correctly, I fell asleep during each movie.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I`m afraid so. I think I like his later work, but my brother got me to watch some of his older pieces (Golden Child), and if I recall correctly, I fell asleep during each movie.

I've never ever heard anyone say that about an Eddie Murphy production...so that's a first.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Mod hat firmly on:

Good afternoon.

I understand that this is a fraught, touchy subject. The people who stand on each side of it have many valid reasons for believing what they do. There are few things more intimate than sex, and everyone has some sort of experience with sex and sexuality, even if they've never had intercourse, or had intercourse only once, or only with one person, or with many people. It's woven into the fabric of human experience, it affects us all, and it's natural that everyone is going to have an opinion based on their beliefs and past experiences. Everyone.

Now: one of the most important things on this forum is mutual respect. Without it, it's difficult to have a useful conversation, let alone a conversation that produces growth. When one person stands on one side and says "everyone who likes porn is a dirty whore," and another person retaliates with "everyone who uses the words 'dirty whore' is a classless arsehole," there is no respect. That's not okay on this forum.

I encourage everyone to momentarily take off the goggles of black-and-white thinking and try to imagine how your opponent might have reached his or her opinions. What kind of things could happen in somebody's life to create a viewpoint like that? How might they have been treated?

Then try to imagine how your responses and reactions may affect the people around you. Perhaps not faceless strangers on the internet -- but when you casually tossed those words out at a party one time, who might have been listening, and how might they have felt?

Now re-enter this thread. Having done that exercise, what would you like to say? How would you phrase your beliefs?

Thank you!

I agree Criseyde.

I have made my perspective of the porn industry very clear on my previous posts but I am not going to criticise people that appear in the movies or people who watch them because it is their decision. I do believe porn is designed to target a specific audience which it has successfully capitalised on and I will give whoever came up with the idea of porn a heads up for a job well done. I just don’t watch it though and I have no need to because I have a beautiful Fiancée that does enough for me.

Watching people that I don’t know engage in acts of sex in front of a camera honestly does nothing for me and I get more enjoyment out of watching Hailey playing a guitar and singing to me. I would feel like a peeping Tom watching it and I don’t see what the difference is between watching a porno and peeking through somebody’s bedroom window other than the fact they are paid. Another thing I don’t understand is why anybody would choose to watch porn over having sex themselves unless they are desperate and can't get it which is the case a lot of the times as I mentioned before.

My Fiancée thinks porn encourages rape but when you think about it porn is good in a way for those types of people because it provides an outlet for them. Instead of going out and raping women they can stay home and watch porn and masturbate or hump their beds. In other words, it keeps the sick bastards at bay while everybody else can live their lives without having to worry about them.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

If it were easy to work out and stay in shape, there wouldn't be so many fat people. In the US, 60% of the population is overweight or obese.

You seem to contradict yourself. On the one hand you say your job was really hard to get and that you needed connections. You also say being a lawyer and a psychologist is hard. But on the other hand you say that people who don't have jobs are lazy parasites. Which one is it? Either it's easy to get a job and people are lazy if they don't have them, or it's hard to get a job and people aren't lazy if they don't have them. I maintain that it's hard to be a porn star. It's not just a matter of working out. You need to have a lot of charisma and sex appeal and you need to be good in bed, and most women are lousy in bed.

I think you have misinterpreted my post CroMagna.

I never said people who don’t have jobs are lazy. There could be a number of legitimate reasons why they are unemployed and if they are struggling I feel sorry for them but at the same time I think if more people went to University or at least finished High School they would have a job. I have a mate that is struggling to find a job at the moment and he is thinking about going to University next year because the jobs he wants all require degrees and there are not many jobs going around in our area that employ people that don’t have past experience in the field.

People that don't want jobs and spend their lives bludging on the dole are lazy bastards and it's true. Those of us that work have to pay for them with our tax dollars when they could be getting up off their lazy behinds and getting a job instead of staying home and watching TV. If they are having trouble getting a job or doing college or university, fine but that is not always the case. Everybody knows there are people in the world that think they are too good to work and just expect everything to be handed to them. Then they have the hide to complain on forums that they can’t get girlfriends and blame women when they are too stupid to see it’s their own fault.

You don’t have to be Mr. Ambitious but you should at least have some ambitions in life. Who wants to be with somebody that sits at home and watches TV and does nothing else? Even porn stars have ambitions. They like to have sex with basically anything that has two legs. Good for them. I didn’t say what they do is easy but it is easier than a hell of a lot of other jobs out there. Have you ever worked as a rooftiler, a brickie or in a timber factory or spent a day watching what they do? Some of those blokes do back breaking work for nine hours a day but yet you claim a sex scene is harder?

I suppose next you're going to argue that being a porn star is harder than working as a cop, fireman or a soldier. A lot of these people put their lives on the line every day but apparently porn stars must too because there is always that chance a penis could poke their eyes out. Being good in bed and working out pales in comparison to a lot of other things. The main reason more than half your country’s population is overweight or obese is because the food and meals they sell are twice the size of ours. I’ve seen some of it and I have no idea how people could eat it without feeling sick.