[ADULT] Split thread: Porn (actors, effects, attitudes toward)

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I also disagree that getting a decent education is easier than becoming a porn star. This is one of the most outrageous claims I have ever heard and I think you might be confusing education with decent education. Most people have to study very hard to get into the top universities and if it was easy to become a business man, a doctor, a journalist, a professor, a lawyer, a scientist, a psychologist or a politician, a teacher etc everybody would be rich. No offense but do you even realise how much hard work goes into a job like that? To say being a porn star is harder is the biggest load of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have ever heard.

Do you consider a 4.42 GPA studying very hard? Do you consider a bachelors from an Ivy League University a decent education?

It's not that hard to become a lawyer or a psychologist or a teacher but the reason everyone's not rich is because not everyone wants to be a lawyer, a psychologist, or a teacher. Law is boring, you just shuffle papers around a desk and never go to court. Psychology is for people who enjoy helping others. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. You want to be a horror fiction writer. That's because have to follow their passions so you have graphic designers, architects, dancers etc.

On the flip side, if it were easy for any old lazy person to be a porn star or a prostitute, everyone would be making six figures working at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. Meanwhile, the reality is that 1,000 girls a day audition for Bunny Ranch and only 5-6 get picked out of that. It's probably easier to get into Harvard Law.

I used to watch Cathouse and these girls have to be very talented. I saw one deep throat a banana without it falling apart. That's like 9 inches. Try it. I saw some amazing pole tricks and splits. There's also a lot of charisma and charm involved that isn't learned but is a gift from nature.

It's a lot easier to sit and type or sit and read a book with a highlighter and answer questions in class. Lazy people can get a decent education.

In other news, I don't understand your girlfriend and her not wanting to be judged by her looks. I love being judged by my looks. I'm actually sick of being judged by my brains.

[butterflyeffect]

I don't watch porn myself or want anything to do with it. But I still think its wonderful that it exists, along with strippers and prostitutes.

To me it means sexual abundance. For those who want that and are into that - great. Its there and a thriving industry. I can avoid it without worrying about being forced into it because of a lack of participants or sexual options for individuals or organisations. Also willing participants, whatever their role in the industry, means we don't need to force anyone into it.

I find in seeing in the flesh strip clubs and brothels near where I live confronting. But I like reading books from ex show girls and prostitues fascinating. How they work and what its really like. I feel those at the top of the industry have alot of knowledge and seem to share it in their books.

[Bunterhaperton]

Originally Posted by butterflyeffect

I don't watch porn myself or want anything to do with it. But I still think its wonderful that it exists, along with strippers and prostitutes.

To me it means sexual abundance. For those who want that and are into that - great. Its there and a thriving industry. I can avoid it without worrying about being forced into it because of a lack of participants or sexual options for individuals or organisations. Also willing participants, whatever their role in the industry, means we don't need to force anyone into it.

I find in seeing in the flesh strip clubs and brothels near where I live confronting. But I like reading books from ex show girls and prostitues fascinating. How they work and what its really like. I feel those at the top of the industry have alot of knowledge and seem to share it in their books.

Thing is, I think the main problem with the Sex Industry is that it has a huge reputation or a huge nasty habit of attracting creepy, sleazy, dangerous and completely weird in a bad way men all the time. It's like a huge magnet to them in a way in which it seems to attract these kind of men alot more than the respectful type of men.

In a ideal world, it would be nice for it to attract the respectful yet sexual type of men more than the complete opposite, but sadly in reality, it's not the case. It's bad enough for women in general being harrased by creepy, sleazy, dangerous and completely weird in a bad way men. But for women working in the sex industry, it will constantly be a continous problem for them due to them being recognised by these type of men all the time.

Also, illegal drugs and abuse of all sorts is also a huge major problem in the sex industry in which most of the women are pressurized or bullied into taking illegal drugs and being abused of all sorts to continue in being paid.

If you go onto The Pink Foundation website, there is alot of blogs and interviews with former porn stars or current porn stars that describe from personal experience on what the sex industry is like. From what they describe, it does not look good or paint a pretty picture at all. Those who have left the sex industry have said they are very glad that they left and have urged anyone to stay away from this industry.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

In other news, I don't understand your girlfriend and her not wanting to be judged by her looks. I love being judged by my looks. I'm actually sick of being judged by my brains.

It’s rather simple. The reason my girlfriend wants to be judged by her brains instead of her looks is because she is tired of people labelling as a dumb blonde. I don’t know how it works in America but in Australia if you are a woman that is blonde and has big boobs most people (especially men in top positions) see you as a dumb blonde and you don’t get treated with the same respect your other colleagues do. This is something Hailey has had to deal with all her life and I’ve watched some of my other female friends have the same problems and its sexist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but it’s unavoidable.

There have been thousands of cases of this happening in Australia and the most recent example was a woman that got fired by her boss on the basis that her looks were distracting. Being a female and being attractive can be seen as a huge disadvantage in some jobs and they are discriminated against from the moment they apply especially when they are seeking jobs in male orientated areas. Take a look at the Divas in WWE in the US and see how they are treated compared to male wrestlers. Most of them only get two or three minute matches a week and only a chosen few get to be featured.

WWE doesn’t care about their wrestling skills. My Fiancée grew up watching wrestling with her Dad and one of her dreams was to be a WWE Diva like Lita but she wouldn’t waste her time now because women in the wrestling industry are treated like crap. She has the looks, the brains, the strength, the talent and she was professionally trained to wrestle. The same thing is happening in the country music industry where unless your name is Carrie Underwood or Taylor Swift you might as well not even bother trying because most of the record labels don’t believe in gender equality.

My Fiancée currently works as a visual artist and according to her it was a lot harder getting a job in that field than it was becoming a model. While she regrets doing modelling now she said it was easy money when her father cut her off but if she could go back she wouldn’t have done it because it has affected her career and the way people see her. Hailey said most of the people she met while she was in the industry were rude, shallow and obnoxious. She also met other models that couldn’t spell basic words and one didn’t even know what Anzac Day was and she didn’t want to be perceived like that.

Originally Posted by CroMagna

It's not that hard to become a lawyer or a psychologist or a teacher but the reason everyone's not rich is because not everyone wants to be a lawyer, a psychologist, or a teacher. Law is boring, you just shuffle papers around a desk and never go to court. Psychology is for people who enjoy helping others.

This is one of the major problems in the world at the moment. People just expect things to be given to them and are not willing to put in the hard work and the effort to get them. There are thousands of lazy bastards in this country on the dole that should be off their asses working instead of watching TV. If it were easy to get the jobs I listed above there wouldn’t be so many people failing. It all comes down to integrity and that's what separates the successful from the unsuccessful. I currently work two jobs. One as a part time computer teacher and the other as a music journalist for a classic rock magazine and the only reason I got a job as the latter was because of my Fiancée’s father.

Becoming a music journalist in this country is not easy and unless you have the connections like I did you are going to struggle to even get an interview. There are thousands of jobs that are harder than being a porn star and let’s face it, it is not that hard to work out and stay in shape. Perhaps you need to look at some wrestling DVDs and see what kind of workouts people like John Cena do. If you saw the first season of Tough Enough there were people vomiting because they couldn't keep up and I know for a fact porn stars' workouts would pale in comparison to the working out wrestlers do.

If lazy people could get an education there wouldn't be so many dole bludgers

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

It’s rather simple. The reason my girlfriend wants to be judged by her brains instead of her looks is because she is tired of people labelling as a dumb blonde. I don’t know how it works in America but in Australia if you are a woman that is blonde and has big boobs most people (especially men in top positions) see you as a dumb blonde and you don’t get treated with the same respect your other colleagues do. This is something Hailey has had to deal with all her life and I’ve watched some of my other female friends have the same problems and its sexist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but it’s unavoidable.

I had the same issue. I'm natural blonde and I always hated being an ego boost for guys who just wanted to look good to their friends, walking down the street with me. They weren't interested in me as a person or whether I am smart or not, all they care about is that I'm hot and make them look good. I also had the dumb blond complex, although I used to play along and pretend I was dumb to trick people.

Many Aussie blokes...well, I've been over aussie men for quite some time now. It's nice to meet at least one half decent one.

There have been thousands of cases of this happening in Australia and the most recent example was a woman that got fired by her boss on the basis that her looks were distracting. Being a female and being attractive can be seen as a huge disadvantage in some jobs and they are discriminated against from the moment they apply especially when they are seeking jobs in male orientated areas. Take a look at the Divas in WWE in the US and see how they are treated compared to male wrestlers. Most of them only get two or three minute matches a week and only a chosen few get to be featured.

I work in sensual massage, and looks are definitely a priority for the boss when he is hiring massage therapists. Firstly, the blokes can't seem to get it through their heads that it's a legitimate massage therapy business, and they all think it's a brothel. I actually had a complaint made against me by a severely obese (and rather smelly) bloke the other day, for not giving him a hand job!

I did what I could with what I had to work with, and it was what he paid for, but that's not why they really come...they come, so they can cum! It goes back to when massage parlors were associated with brothels, and even in 2011 they still think it's a brothel. It's really quite funny.

She also met other models that couldn’t spell basic words and one didn’t even know what Anzac Day was and she didn’t want to be perceived like that.

See, I don't actually perceive anyone who can't spell as being dumb necessarily...but I can see how they are perceived that way by the majority of people who consider a degree as meaning the person is really intelligent...and anyone who doesn't have one is an idiot.

Lots of millionaires didn't even make it through to grade 10.

This is one of the major problems in the world at the moment. People just expect things to be given to them and are not willing to put in the hard work and the effort to get them. There are thousands of lazy bastards in this country on the dole that should be off their asses working instead of watching TV. If it were easy to get the jobs I listed above there wouldn’t be so many people failing. It all comes down to integrity and that's what separates the successful from the unsuccessful. I currently work two jobs. One as a part time computer teacher and the other as a music journalist for a classic rock magazine and the only reason I got a job as the latter was because of my Fiancée’s father.

Yes, it's a real issue for employers. My boss is experiencing this a lot at the moment. No one ever shows up for work and if they do, they leave half way through the shift to go shopping and leave him stranded without caring. With the dole, so many people figure why should they work when they can get almost the same amount for nothing. It's making everyone lazy and lacking in character.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Do you consider a 4.42 GPA studying very hard? Do you consider a bachelors from an Ivy League University a decent education?

It's not that hard to become a lawyer or a psychologist or a teacher but the reason everyone's not rich is because not everyone wants to be a lawyer, a psychologist, or a teacher. Law is boring, you just shuffle papers around a desk and never go to court. Psychology is for people who enjoy helping others. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. You want to be a horror fiction writer. That's because have to follow their passions so you have graphic designers, architects, dancers etc.

Don't know what it's like in the states but here in England it is not easy to be a barrister or psychologist.

To be a clinical psychologist, you have to apply to clearing house. Every single year there are at the minimum 8 applicants for each space. Every year and you cannot become a clinical psychologist without it

To be a barrister you have to do pupilage. The applicants for each spot is higher.
,aye you haven't been informed but the western world is in a major recession. In nearly every field you are having 400 plus people applying for 5 spots. There are many people taking 30 - 50% pay cuts just to stay employed.

The police and the underground have seen such huge increases in applicants there is now a 2 yr waiting list. The building trade has gone into a slump. So cro magna the world of work is not as simplistic as you describe

As for teaching. The uk is bracing itself for one of the biggest public sector strikes because the government is slimily trying to reneg on the pension deal many teachers signed yrs ago. Even though it bailed out bankers at a huge loss and blew 12 billion on an iIT system it never used and has now abandoned.

[MariconesUnited]

I've been following this thread. I've considered porn myself. Yet I decided against it for many of ALG's stated reasons. I have other ambitions and I don't want this particular dream to annihilate all my other dreams.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with porn per say. Some things some people do in porn may be unethical, but there's nothing wrong with watching people having sex. We all have a little exhibitionist side. These people just decided to explore it.

To me porn is just a reflection of society. And it's watching that mirror that can be discomforting. I don't have any qualms about what is seen in porn. I have qualms about what I don't see! People sharing their love and intimacy with the world at large. Passionate kissing (as opposed to that stupid thing they came up with where the partners stick out their tongues and do that silly thing...Is anyone actually turned on by that??).

In a nutshell, I think we still, to this day, have a problem with sex. The long history of religious intolerance has a lot to do with it, and it's unfortunate. This idea that there's something wrong with exploring our bodies, with lust, with sharing some pleasurable moments with others for the sake of sharing pleasure...It's entirely nonsensical. We should be grateful for lust. None of us would be here without it after all.

[Karanjisha]

WOW, I just have only one thing to say---morality seems to have become the "dirty word" as we...err...."progress".

[Karanjisha]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

I've been following this thread. I've considered porn myself. Yet I decided against it for many of ALG's stated reasons. I have other ambitions and I don't want this particular dream to annihilate all my other dreams.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with porn per say. Some things some people do in porn may be unethical, but there's nothing wrong with watching people having sex. We all have a little exhibitionist side. These people just decided to explore it.

To me porn is just a reflection of society. And it's watching that mirror that can be discomforting. I don't have any qualms about what is seen in porn. I have qualms about what I don't see! People sharing their love and intimacy with the world at large. Passionate kissing (as opposed to that stupid thing they came up with where the partners stick out their tongues and do that silly thing...Is anyone actually turned on by that??).

In a nutshell, I think we still, to this day, have a problem with sex. The long history of religious intolerance has a lot to do with it, and it's unfortunate. This idea that there's something wrong with exploring our bodies, with lust, with sharing some pleasurable moments with others for the sake of sharing pleasure...It's entirely nonsensical. We should be grateful for lust. None of us would be here without it after all.

So, if I may ask, does "Morals" have a place in this theoretical deduction of yours? Would you or would you not consider it immoral and "animal" to treat Sex as totally no different from Food or entertainment? Just some questions..feel free to ignore if offensive.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

So, if I may ask, does "Morals" have a place in this theoretical deduction of yours? Would you or would you not consider it immoral and "animal" to treat Sex as totally no different from Food or entertainment? Just some questions..feel free to ignore if offensive.

Based on whose idea of morality? Are you coming from a religious perspective or societal? Or personal?

[ZephyrusX]

Hmmm... I would further qualify that by saying that sex ought to be about mutual pleasure and sensuality where there is a certain degree of trust, safety and respect between the participants. To answer your question, no, I don't see anything immoral about sex as a form of pleasure so long as it meets the guidelines I listed above.

Do you?

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

So, if I may ask, does "Morals" have a place in this theoretical deduction of yours? Would you or would you not consider it immoral and "animal" to treat Sex as totally no different from Food or entertainment? Just some questions..feel free to ignore if offensive.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

So, if I may ask, does "Morals" have a place in this theoretical deduction of yours? Would you or would you not consider it immoral and "animal" to treat Sex as totally no different from Food or entertainment? Just some questions..feel free to ignore if offensive.

No. I am guided by ethics. I would not see treating sex as a commodity and a service bought and sold as unethical. No more or less than any other product or service. I do consider sex as an animal act, which it is. I embrace the sexuality and animality in the human being and I am grateful for it, for I would not exist if it was not a part of human nature.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

It's not that hard to become a lawyer or a psychologist or a teacher but the reason everyone's not rich is because not everyone wants to be a lawyer, a psychologist, or a teacher. Law is boring, you just shuffle papers around a desk and never go to court. Psychology is for people who enjoy helping others. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. You want to be a horror fiction writer. That's because have to follow their passions so you have graphic designers, architects, dancers etc.

A digression - but I think that you have made a lot of presumptions there about lawyers, psychologists, teachers, horror fiction writers, graphic designers, architects AND dancers.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

See, I don't actually perceive anyone who can't spell as being dumb necessarily...but I can see how they are perceived that way by the majority of people who consider a degree as meaning the person is really intelligent...and anyone who doesn't have one is an idiot.

Lots of millionaires didn't even make it through to grade 10.

But it seems that you are presuming that millionaires aren't dumb idiots.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

But it seems that you are presuming that millionaires aren't dumb idiots.

Seems being the operative word here.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

To me, every person on this planet is, in some way, stupid at certain times, including me. None of them would ever admit to it though.

Many are very stupid, and it seems like the older they get the dumber they get...so I am sure that millionaires can be dumb idiots at times as well.

All I was saying is that just because a person cannot spell, does not mean they can't "make it" in society and be successful, as has been proven by millionaires who never finished college.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I had the same issue. I'm natural blonde and I always hated being an ego boost for guys who just wanted to look good to their friends, walking down the street with me. They weren't interested in me as a person or whether I am smart or not, all they care about is that I'm hot and make them look good. I also had the dumb blond complex, although I used to play along and pretend I was dumb to trick people.

Many Aussie blokes...well, I've been over aussie men for quite some time now. It's nice to meet at least one half decent one.



I work in sensual massage, and looks are definitely a priority for the boss when he is hiring massage therapists. Firstly, the blokes can't seem to get it through their heads that it's a legitimate massage therapy business, and they all think it's a brothel. I actually had a complaint made against me by a severely obese (and rather smelly) bloke the other day, for not giving him a hand job!

I did what I could with what I had to work with, and it was what he paid for, but that's not why they really come...they come, so they can cum! It goes back to when massage parlors were associated with brothels, and even in 2011 they still think it's a brothel. It's really quite funny.




See, I don't actually perceive anyone who can't spell as being dumb necessarily...but I can see how they are perceived that way by the majority of people who consider a degree as meaning the person is really intelligent...and anyone who doesn't have one is an idiot.

Lots of millionaires didn't even make it through to grade 10.



Yes, it's a real issue for employers. My boss is experiencing this a lot at the moment. No one ever shows up for work and if they do, they leave half way through the shift to go shopping and leave him stranded without caring. With the dole, so many people figure why should they work when they can get almost the same amount for nothing. It's making everyone lazy and lacking in character.

Thanks elucidate

Hailey had the same problem in high school too after she lost weight and got her hair dyed but she distanced herself from these people because she thought they were phoney and shallow and went back to hanging out with her friends from primary. She has one friend (Teresa) who she has been best friends with since preschool and she’s paying her to do the cleaning duties in our house at the moment because she has been struggling getting a new job. Hailey’s natural hair colour is black but she prefers having it blonde.

I have never heard of sensual massage but from what you have described I could imagine it would attract some shady characters such as the bloke that complained about you. Did the bloke actually complain to you when you were giving him the massage or only to your boss? I know if somebody asked Hailey to do that they would just be asking for an ass kicking :lol: . You would think if all they wanted was sex they would be going to a brothel instead of a massage parlour especially in this modern age.

I don’t think having a degree symbolises intelligence either and there are a number of people in this world that are well educated like our great Prime Minister but are sadly lacking brains or perhaps our Prime Minister is smarter than people give her credit for since she swindled us with the carbon Tax after she lied to us about it on TV. The last time I checked we were living in a democracy but it seems like we are becoming a totalitarian society. I think everybody should be able to spell basic words and not knowing what Anzac Day is was an insult to all the soldiers that passed away in the war.

I don’t mind people who are on the dole for legitimate reasons but I know for a fact there are a lot of people in Australia that are not and we are paying for them with our tax dollars when they should be out looking for new jobs every day. The government fails to acknowledge this and I strongly believe they should be cracking down on these people.

[Karanjisha]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

No. I am guided by ethics. I would not see treating sex as a commodity and a service bought and sold as unethical. No more or less than any other product or service. I do consider sex as an animal act, which it is. I embrace the sexuality and animality in the human being and I am grateful for it, for I would not exist if it was not a part of human nature.

You do not see sex being sold as a product as immoral? Quite contradictory with your first line, I must say.

[Karanjisha]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Based on whose idea of morality? Are you coming from a religious perspective or societal? Or personal?

Based on the idea of "morality" itself. You know, the kind of morality that would prevent you from running on the street naked for fun and expect people not to be offended. No need to bring in philosophical deductions just for the sake of an argument.

Having sex with people with no emotional attachment is abhorrent by morality. And let me tell you this, you, and every one else here defending porn, would be the first ones to brand your wife/daughter/cousin/sister a "slut" by knee-jerk reaction if she stepped into the porn industry.You won't be so philosophical about it then. It's natural. Mating without attachment is animal, not human. Unless "morality" is really, REALLY "backdated" for you.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

Based on the idea of "morality" itself. You know, the kind of morality that would prevent you from running on the street naked for fun and expect people not to be offended. No need to bring in philosophical deductions just for the sake of an argument.

Having sex with people with no emotional attachment is abhorrent by morality. And let me tell you this, you, and every one else here defending porn, would be the first ones to brand your wife/daughter/cousin/sister a "slut" by knee-jerk reaction if she stepped into the porn industry.You won't be so philosophical about it then. It's natural. Mating without attachment is animal, not human. Unless "morality" is really, REALLY "backdated" for you.

You are making an awful lot of assumptions.

Can you tell me why porn is morally wrong? What makes it so?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

Based on the idea of "morality" itself. You know, the kind of morality that would prevent you from running on the street naked for fun and expect people not to be offended. No need to bring in philosophical deductions just for the sake of an argument.

I'm not sure how morality and nudie runs are related, but I can tell you this...if I were to do a nudie run and people were offended...that would be their issue entirely. Nakedness is NOT offensive, and anyone who has issues with it...has issues.

Having sex with people with no emotional attachment is abhorrent by morality.And let me tell you this, you, and every one else here defending porn, would be the first ones to brand your wife/daughter/cousin/sister a "slut" by knee-jerk reaction if she stepped into the porn industry.You won't be so philosophical about it then. It's natural. Mating without attachment is animal, not human. Unless "morality" is really, REALLY "backdated" for you.

Maybe by your concept of what morality is, but I don't find it "abhorrent" at all. Can I ask you where you formed this opinion? Do you even know...or was it imposed on you by your parents or peers? I know that I picked up a similar opinion from my father growing up. Most of us do pick up our opinions from family and friends and think they are our own opinions.

Now, it may not be the healthiest of choices for many people in the industry...simply due to the fact that many in porn are numbing their feelings by having sex with strangers and no emotional attachment...but there is nothing inherently "wrong" with doing that! Some people have a lot of issues and aren't able to cope with their emotions, so they escape them with sex. That doesn't make them immoral...just screwed up!

Some people just genuinely love the simplicity of having sex without any emotional attachment, and they are able to pull it off. Just because you aren't able to fathom how they can, does not mean they are wrong for doing it.

If they are single and not hurting anyone, then how is that wrong to enjoy having sex without any strings or emotions involved?

It's not for everyone, but obviously many people don't mind it, and it does not mean they are not decent people who do the right thing in most areas of life. I'm sure that people who think the way you do would think otherwise about them though... which is an assumption.

I for one would NEVER brand anyone I know a "slut" if they went into the porn industry.

You seem to assume that you know what we all would think without even knowing us. Does this make sense to you? It doesn't to me at all.

Also...Humans ARE animals. To deny that is to be completely out of touch with your true nature. But don't worry, you are not alone there...most of the world are like you in that respect!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I have never heard of sensual massage but from what you have described I could imagine it would attract some shady characters such as the bloke that complained about you. Did the bloke actually complain to you when you were giving him the massage or only to your boss? I know if somebody asked Hailey to do that they would just be asking for an ass kicking :lol: . You would think if all they wanted was sex they would be going to a brothel instead of a massage parlour especially in this modern age.

Yes, it does attract some creepy men, lots of married men with babies on the way etc...but some are nice enough, and respectful. And yes, we all say the same thing there...why don't they just go to a brothel? I've had to say that to a few men "This isn't a brothel". They still try though...just not with me anymore. I've lost bookings from saying this!

Apparently there have been some crazy women there before who would have full sex with clients, who used to be prostitutes and my boss has had a hard time finding reliable staff who aren't weirdos,so...I'm guessing that some men just assume all the girls do that, and try their luck?

The person I mentioned did not complain at the time, no. He seemed happy enough and said I did a good job. I give really good massages, so he really had nothing to complain about, but some people are just like that. They will find something to complain about simply because they didn't get what they really wanted. Kinda like a little child not getting their own way. Instead of accepting it, he had to be vindictive and tell my boss to get me in trouble even though he's been told many times that it's not a brothel.

I'm sure he's been rejected a lot, but if he really looked at himself, he'd understand why and do something about it...but that's too hard, so instead he complains about me. Most people are living in a fantasy world though...I didn't get in any trouble. My boss knows I give a good massage and did what I was supposed to, so it's all his own issues.

I found out that he actually grew up in a brothel, and his father owned it...so it's no wonder he just expects this from women.

But yes, I'm not really sure at this stage if it's for me. Today was my third day on the job. I like giving massage, and my boss is good natured, but it's a hard job dealing with people like this I can tell you that much. There are just a LOT of really sad, pathetic men that come there with nothing better to do, and some are actually addicted to getting massages!

I don’t think having a degree symbolises intelligence either and there are a number of people in this world that are well educated like our great Prime Minister but are sadly lacking brains or perhaps our Prime Minister is smarter than people give her credit for since she swindled us with the carbon Tax after she lied to us about it on TV. The last time I checked we were living in a democracy but it seems like we are becoming a totalitarian society. I think everybody should be able to spell basic words and not knowing what Anzac Day is was an insult to all the soldiers that passed away in the war.

There are LOTS of people with degrees who are sadly lacking in brains and common sense. This society seems to be geared towards dumbing people down regardless of their credentials.

People are smart in various ways. Even intellectually handicapped people are smart and cunning, in their own way. Dumb people are smart in some ways and smart people can be very dumb!

I don’t mind people who are on the dole for legitimate reasons but I know for a fact there are a lot of people in Australia that are not and we are paying for them with our tax dollars when they should be out looking for new jobs every day. The government fails to acknowledge this and I strongly believe they should be cracking down on these people.

Yes, it happens a lot. It makes it hard for legitimate cases where they are struggling to find work and some are living with mental illness, and being called fake. I've had that experience when I was clinically depressed in my twenties...with my own family. They just thought I was faking it to get out of work...but I was really seriously unwell.

[ZephyrusX]

You are falsely assuming that that we all share this notion of morality. Why is it abhorrent to morality to have sex without emotional attachment? Saying it is 'natural' is rather silly considering the context. If it were indeed self-evident, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Why the focus on women, btw? There are men in the porn industry as well, and considering your emphasis on sex without emotional attachment, I don't see why would you exclude them from your analysis.

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

Based on the idea of "morality" itself. You know, the kind of morality that would prevent you from running on the street naked for fun and expect people not to be offended. No need to bring in philosophical deductions just for the sake of an argument.

Having sex with people with no emotional attachment is abhorrent by morality. And let me tell you this, you, and every one else here defending porn, would be the first ones to brand your wife/daughter/cousin/sister a "slut" by knee-jerk reaction if she stepped into the porn industry.You won't be so philosophical about it then. It's natural. Mating without attachment is animal, not human. Unless "morality" is really, REALLY "backdated" for you.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

Based on the idea of "morality" itself. You know, the kind of morality that would prevent you from running on the street naked for fun and expect people not to be offended. No need to bring in philosophical deductions just for the sake of an argument.

Having sex with people with no emotional attachment is abhorrent by morality. And let me tell you this, you, and every one else here defending porn, would be the first ones to brand your wife/daughter/cousin/sister a "slut" by knee-jerk reaction if she stepped into the porn industry.You won't be so philosophical about it then. It's natural. Mating without attachment is animal, not human. Unless "morality" is really, REALLY "backdated" for you.

Everything about your posts tells me you've just had your views on morality imposed on you with little to no analysis.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Everything about your posts tells me you've just had your views on morality imposed on you with little to no analysis.

I agree. A little self-examination might be the ticket.

[TinaC]

Originally Posted by elucidate

For the record I never said they do have class. I don't think they care one way or the other if someone like you thinks they have class or not...they are too busy HAVING FUN, which they probably count as more important!

Since when does class equate with the number of people you sleep with though? When did the number of people you sleep with become the pinnacle of the moral compass?

Do you think it is elegant of you to judge other women you don't know for what they choose to do with their own bodies. What is so classy about judging other women with such harsh words? Who are you to decide what they deserve? If being this judgemental makes you happy then by all means continue. You obviously feel justified in what you feel is true.

Feminism has always been about the woman's right to choose, and for some women choosing this path is something that is an empowering choice. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it any less valid a choice.

To me, it is un-classy to call other women this and judge them so harshly for their right to choose what they want to do, and it reflects a very closed mind. Just because it does not correspond with your own values, does not make them lesser people.

In any case, I have no desire to interact with you about this anymore. You obviously have your mind made up and aren't willing to open it, so I won't bother.

Also, votoshka did not say that porn is EVIL...you misrepresented her quote.

I don’t want to fight with you anymore about this. It’s just my opinion and you can’t change it.

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I think you have gone a bit overboard criticising these women Tina and it is not like they are reading this forum and are going to see your comments. Your views on this topic are somewhat similar to my Fiancée’s but she doesn't go on forums and attack these women for it. In fact, she doesn’t write on any forums anymore and deleted her Facebook and Myspace accounts after she was cyber bullied by the idiots I was talking about in my previous post. I don’t write on many forums anymore either and I closed down the one I was administrating last year but I think this one is safe.

I am not going to mention everything we went through on here but we got absolutely no help from the channel and the Program Director expected us to fix all his problems for him. He originally told Hailey if she ignored it they would go away but it just made them worse. We spent hours delete the most foul posts imaginable and when you tried to delete their account they would come back again and bring half a dozen friends with them to post more. Blocking their IPs was useless because they were using proxies and anonymous cloaks and adding an email activation option didn’t help either because they decided to take over existing members profiles and post crap all over the place.

We pretty much tried everything we could to get rid of them. We closed down the forum for a few days to see if they would give up but they would hack into the Administrator’s account and reopen the forum using the admin control panel and then they deleted the topics on the board index along with all the threads and posts and replaced them with porn topics. We often backed up the database so we could use the restore function but then they corrupted it and we had to close the forum down which was all caused by one member’s sick obsession with an artist and anger because their account was blocked. Apparently there was some type of disturbance in this artist’s pants.

These were not your regular porn spammers and when we opened up another forum they followed us there too and began hacking our computers. I went through five different hard drives and it cost me a lot of money replacing everything they damaged. Hailey was using the computer one afternoon and pictures of penises started popping up everywhere when Courtney was in the room and she had to turn it off along with the modem. We ended up contacting the AFP about this and it turned out we weren’t the only people this group had been targeting and they traced them to Queensland.

This was an example of some of the sick bastards porn attracts and I know for a fact there are bloody heaps of them just like this on other websites.

That’s totally messed up. Why didn’t you and Hailey just leave?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by TinaC

I don’t want to fight with you anymore about this. It’s just my opinion and you can’t change it.

I don't want to fight with you either. I'm not trying to change your opinion in fact, if you read it I said I didn't want to waste my time with you since you have made up your mind.

I just think your opinion sucks and you haven't any class, even though you think you do.

That's my opinion.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by Karanjisha

Having sex with people with no emotional attachment is abhorrent by morality. And let me tell you this, you, and every one else here defending porn, would be the first ones to brand your wife/daughter/cousin/sister a "slut" by knee-jerk reaction if she stepped into the porn industry.You won't be so philosophical about it then. It's natural. Mating without attachment is animal, not human. Unless "morality" is really, REALLY "backdated" for you.

I posted a similar comment about this on my thread 'My Fiancée is Afraid of Sex' a few days ago but I made an effort to point out it was my belief because I know there are some people that won’t agree with me and they shouldn’t have to. To be honest, the thought of having sex with somebody I am not in love with or don’t know turns me off but I am not going to ridicule the people that enjoy doing this like you and another member have because they are free to do it and what’s the point? As I said to Tina, it is not like the people that do these movies are reading your posts mate.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Nakedness is NOT offensive.

I have to disagree with you here. There are many cases of nakedness being offensive especially when it is some sick bastard exposing himself to a child. I mentioned to Tina on this thread a forum Hailey and I used to be moderators on was flooded with vile pornographic images and we received a lot of complaints from members that were offended by them. My daughter saw one of those pictures and I am assuming some of the younger members did too and left because of them. One time at a party I saw a naked fat bloke flopping around his friend. He had a hairy back and a hairy ass and that image still haunts me to this day.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, it does attract some creepy men, lots of married men with babies on the way etc...but some are nice enough, and respectful. And yes, we all say the same thing there...why don't they just go to a brothel? I've had to say that to a few men "This isn't a brothel". They still try though...just not with me anymore. I've lost bookings from saying this!

Apparently there have been some crazy women there before who would have full sex with clients, who used to be prostitutes and my boss has had a hard time finding reliable staff who aren't weirdos,so...I'm guessing that some men just assume all the girls do that, and try their luck?

The person I mentioned did not complain at the time, no. He seemed happy enough and said I did a good job. I give really good massages, so he really had nothing to complain about, but some people are just like that. They will find something to complain about simply because they didn't get what they really wanted. Kinda like a little child not getting their own way. Instead of accepting it, he had to be vindictive and tell my boss to get me in trouble even though he's been told many times that it's not a brothel.

I'm sure he's been rejected a lot, but if he really looked at himself, he'd understand why and do something about it...but that's too hard, so instead he complains about me. Most people are living in a fantasy world though...I didn't get in any trouble. My boss knows I give a good massage and did what I was supposed to, so it's all his own issues.

I found out that he actually grew up in a brothel, and his father owned it...so it's no wonder he just expects this from women.

But yes, I'm not really sure at this stage if it's for me. Today was my third day on the job. I like giving massage, and my boss is good natured, but it's a hard job dealing with people like this I can tell you that much. There are just a LOT of really sad, pathetic men that come there with nothing better to do, and some are actually addicted to getting massages!



There are LOTS of people with degrees who are sadly lacking in brains and common sense. This society seems to be geared towards dumbing people down regardless of their credentials.

People are smart in various ways. Even intellectually handicapped people are smart and cunning, in their own way. Dumb people are smart in some ways and smart people can be very dumb!



Yes, it happens a lot. It makes it hard for legitimate cases where they are struggling to find work and some are living with mental illness, and being called fake. I've had that experience when I was clinically depressed in my twenties...with my own family. They just thought I was faking it to get out of work...but I was really seriously unwell.

It’s good to hear you stand your ground. You may have lost some bookings from this but I am sure it is better than being pressured into something you don’t want nor have to do. Perhaps a good idea for your boss would be hanging up a sign that says ‘This is not a f%$ing Brothel’ so your clients get the message before they step through the door. You shouldn’t have to put up with crap like that and if somebody asks for it again maybe you could find something hot to pour on a special area of their body. I’m pretty sure if you did that they wouldn’t ask again and your boss shouldn’t mind.

On a serious note there are a lot of weirdos in this world and they probably take up at least a quarter of the population so I can see why your boss would be having problems hiring reliable people. I have to ask, were these women that had sex with their clients fired or just leave on their own accord? It’s people like that would be giving your sensual massage parlour a bad reputation and it’s more than likely their clients would have told their friends about their experiences and their friends would go there expecting to get the same thing. The bloke that complained should have got in trouble.

I knew a woman that was trying to get the dole that passed away from a cancer a few years ago but they kept knocking her back and instead they gave it to one of my Mother's friend's son who was faking having an injured leg so he didn't have to work. This was five years ago and he was the same age I am now and he'd hop around everywhere he went and complained he was in pain and then one day he told me he was faking it and walked around and laughed. I tried to tell his Mother but she wouldn't believe me. He's married now and he's still faking it while his wife is working.

[Criseyde]

Mod hat firmly on:

Good afternoon.

I understand that this is a fraught, touchy subject. The people who stand on each side of it have many valid reasons for believing what they do. There are few things more intimate than sex, and everyone has some sort of experience with sex and sexuality, even if they've never had intercourse, or had intercourse only once, or only with one person, or with many people. It's woven into the fabric of human experience, it affects us all, and it's natural that everyone is going to have an opinion based on their beliefs and past experiences. Everyone.

Now: one of the most important things on this forum is mutual respect. Without it, it's difficult to have a useful conversation, let alone a conversation that produces growth. When one person stands on one side and says "everyone who likes porn is a dirty whore," and another person retaliates with "everyone who uses the words 'dirty whore' is a classless arsehole," there is no respect. That's not okay on this forum.

I encourage everyone to momentarily take off the goggles of black-and-white thinking and try to imagine how your opponent might have reached his or her opinions. What kind of things could happen in somebody's life to create a viewpoint like that? How might they have been treated?

Then try to imagine how your responses and reactions may affect the people around you. Perhaps not faceless strangers on the internet -- but when you casually tossed those words out at a party one time, who might have been listening, and how might they have felt?

Now re-enter this thread. Having done that exercise, what would you like to say? How would you phrase your beliefs?

Thank you!