[ADULT] Split thread: Porn (actors, effects, attitudes toward)

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Porn seems to be a reasonably equal opportunity industry, so if all those female porn stars are classless sluts, what are the males?? Why does it seem to be only the females who are denigrated?

Oh, the men are stupid too, for exposing themselves to the health risks. The point about lack of transferability also applies.

[arpee]

People, there are different types of love.

Lust is one type of love. It is the love of a PHYSICAL body...

Just like romance is a love of Emotion and mind...

So, yes, the porn stars ARE expressing their love, their PHYSICAL/MATERIAL love of each others bodies...

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Oh and one more thing... I've noticed that most of the discussion in this thread talks about female porn stars (and all that slut shaming stuff ), and doesn't mention at all the fact that there are a goodly number of male porn stars too.

Porn seems to be a reasonably equal opportunity industry, so if all those female porn stars are classless sluts, what are the males?? Why does it seem to be only the females who are denigrated?

Exactly.

I think the emphasis is placed on the women and shaming them but there is the attitude that it's "just expected" that men would be so highly sexed, so there is no shame there because men are already dirty minded.

It goes back to how women are expected to behave in society...as "classy ladies"...all proper and never lustful or just on a par with men...wanting to just have sex, and that's it...no love involved...no getting to know the guy.

It perpetuates the illusion that women aren't just as dirty minded as men are...some more so than men. "Good girls" don't behave this way...of course not. They are prim and proper, and modest and play coy, and act as though they never have a dirty thought in their head. Men are obvious about it, and women are covert.

It seems to be the way that in every culture, if a woman goes against the established norm for how other women are supposed to behave, then it's not the men that punish them...it's the WOMEN!

Think of some middle eastern countries, where if a woman tries to escape her lot in life and reach for her freedom, the other women in the tribe will break her down and sometimes even kill her for daring to defy the status quo.

[GaryMichaels]

I have already expressed my perspective of the porn industry but there are a few more things I have yet to comment on such as sexually transmitted diseases. I believe most porn stars would have to be examined by a doctor for this and would have to own a medical certificate before the company hires them and if not those companies should be closed down for failing to protect their employees. It is basically the same thing I mentioned before with cocaine and this should be something the company takes very seriously because if somebody could prove this they could be in a lot of trouble.

I don’t know what the law is in America or any other country but from what I have heard in Australia knowingly transmitting a sexually transmitted disease such as HIV is illegal and people can be sued and go to prison for many years for it. There was a bloke I read about on Sky News Active earlier in the year that was arrested and sued for doing this in Queensland and if this is currently happening in the porn industry it should be taken just as seriously. After my Fiancée was raped she got herself checked out for sexually transmitted diseases and she was very lucky not to have them.

I have to agree with elucidate about males being exempt from criticism. I believe if people are going to bash females for doing it they should be complaining about males too but this doesn’t seem to be the case in a lot of scenarios. I just had a conversation with my Fiancée regarding this and her belief is everybody knows most men can’t keep their dicks in their pants so that’s why the females wear more criticism on this subject than males. :lol: While I am a male myself I think she has a point as most of my male friends would be more than happy to have sex with a hot woman they don’t know.

I think you have gone a bit overboard criticising these women Tina and it is not like they are reading this forum and are going to see your comments. Your views on this topic are somewhat similar to my Fiancée’s but she doesn't go on forums and attack these women for it. In fact, she doesn’t write on any forums anymore and deleted her Facebook and Myspace accounts after she was cyber bullied by the idiots I was talking about in my previous post. I don’t write on many forums anymore either and I closed down the one I was administrating last year but I think this one is safe.

I am not going to mention everything we went through on here but we got absolutely no help from the channel and the Program Director expected us to fix all his problems for him. He originally told Hailey if she ignored it they would go away but it just made them worse. We spent hours delete the most foul posts imaginable and when you tried to delete their account they would come back again and bring half a dozen friends with them to post more. Blocking their IPs was useless because they were using proxies and anonymous cloaks and adding an email activation option didn’t help either because they decided to take over existing members profiles and post crap all over the place.

We pretty much tried everything we could to get rid of them. We closed down the forum for a few days to see if they would give up but they would hack into the Administrator’s account and reopen the forum using the admin control panel and then they deleted the topics on the board index along with all the threads and posts and replaced them with porn topics. We often backed up the database so we could use the restore function but then they corrupted it and we had to close the forum down which was all caused by one member’s sick obsession with an artist and anger because their account was blocked. Apparently there was some type of disturbance in this artist’s pants.

These were not your regular porn spammers and when we opened up another forum they followed us there too and began hacking our computers. I went through five different hard drives and it cost me a lot of money replacing everything they damaged. Hailey was using the computer one afternoon and pictures of penises started popping up everywhere when Courtney was in the room and she had to turn it off along with the modem. We ended up contacting the AFP about this and it turned out we weren’t the only people this group had been targeting and they traced them to Queensland.

This was an example of some of the sick bastards porn attracts and I know for a fact there are bloody heaps of them just like this on other websites.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Interesting thread! I am personally not a porn fan, but I am something of a horror fan myself (and I've written my share of horror as well).

I find it funny how a lot of people that watch horror movies don’t watch porn and the opposite way applies for people that do. Horror movies often contain sex scenes but the 80s slasher flicks taught viewers that sex was a bad thing and if you do it somebody like Jason Vorhees would kill you. If you take a good look at the characters in those films everybody that has sex dies and the only one that is left at the end is often the virgin female. There is an interesting documentary on this that was a bonus feature on one of the Friday the 13th DVDs and they explain why this is a successful formula.

May I ask you what attracted you to horror and are you frightened by the real thing? I ask because I have watched a lot of horror and actions movies with blood and gore over the years and the scenes in the movie don’t affect me but when I see it in ‘real life’ it makes me sick. For example, my Mother has been in for twenty operations and all the surgical stuff freaks me out. I have a certificate in First Aid and I think if I had to help somebody I would be bloody hopeless because the sight of real blood and deep wounds makes me sick too. Most of my friends are like this too and I think it’s because we know it is fake and what is fake can’t hurt us but when it is real it is a different story.

[Orecle]

While I still don't think most porn stars do it for fame and attention since alot come from a stripping background and I know for a fact most of the viewers are not girlfriend less virgins ( a huge amount of actors, musicians, sport stars sleep with pornstars and high class prostitutes and can single handed lay get more free sex than everyone on this forum combined.)

To say only men who can't get girlfriends watch porn is as naive as saying only single unmarried men use prostitutes. Bet people will be surprised alot of men pay prostitutes just to talk no sex as well. My point is people assume from their own values

however porn is not the glamorous feminine empowering experience alot of non participants thinks. According to the most famous a huge majority 90% are on drugs and alcohol

Porn Stars Speak Out: STDs, Drugs and Abuse | Pink Cross Foundation

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I find it funny how a lot of people that watch horror movies don’t watch porn and the opposite way applies for people that do.

Where do you get your stats from? Where did you begin to get data for that huge assumption? If you are judging from this forum you do realise being on a personal development website will skew the result

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Late to the thread, but anyway here is my two cents worth.

I think that joining the porn industry is a stupid idea (unless of course you don't have better options).

There you are, having sex with all kinds of people whom you do not really know. Except that you know that they too are porn actors who regularly have sex with all kind of people they do not know. What does this add up to? Very high risk of getting STDs.

Secondly, your shelf life as a porn actress is probably going to be relatively short-lived. When you're young and attractive and your boobs look good, you can be a porn actress. As you grow older, it gets tougher and tougher. Ask CroMagna (a poster here, who worked as a stripper until she lost confidence. Why did she lose confidence? Couldn't stay slim enough, over time).

The other problem is that your experience is not transferable. Say you spend five years acting in porn flicks. At the end of the five years, you don't look so hot anymore and it's time to move on. The problem is that your five years of experience are not easily transferable into another industry (except prostitution - but there again, your age works against you). You haven't got five years of experience that will help you gain a new job as a teacher, pilot, nurse or business entrepreneur.

Stating "Porn actress, had sex with 200 men over the past 5 years" is not only irrelevant on the CV for most jobs in the world, it also attracts raised eyebrows. Whatever the personal views of the interviewer may be, if you're going for a new job at any kind of organisation that cares about its professsional image and reputation, this is going to work against you. If you can't see it, try to picture these in the news and you'll see:

"Ministry of Education Hires Ex-Porn Actress to Develop School Syllabus"
"Microsoft Hires Ex-Porn Star for Customer Relations Role"
"Ex-Porn Star Hired as Secretary to Congressman James Edwards"

Etc. In the above examples, I have exaggerated the point so that it comes across more clearly ... but I do trust the point gets across now.

Looks like you are right

Porn Stars Speak Out: STDs, Drugs and Abuse | Pink Cross Foundation

[Criseyde]

I did a big research project on "ethical porn" and my basic takeaway was that... it's not a black and white issue.

Before the project, I tended to lean more towards the anti-porn camp. I wasn't hard-over about it, but I had trouble seeing it as good in any way. But, like most things, it's a complex and nuanced issue and I don't think either side is very willing to see that.

It's true that the industry is rife with drugs, alcohol, and STDs (the pro side will explain this away as "there are lost souls in any profession"). It's true that most porn actors don't get paid very much -- most of the money in the industry goes to the producers.

It's also true that people are judged very harshly for participating, in my opinion overly so. It's true that there are people who WANT to do porn, and who view it as sexually liberating. And, it's true that there is ethically produced porn, where people use condoms and get paid a decent wage.

Now, I may have more to say later, but I have to go -- for now, I do have one more important point. It is very dangerous to minimize the risk of AIDS as an "occupational hazard." AIDS kills, and while it may be treatable (for a certain period of time, and expensively; but it will kill you), it's also very preventable. Blacklung is an "occupational hazard" of coal mining, but we take steps to prevent it. I don't see why safer sex should be dismissed as an issue of choice, because essentially, porn is the same as any other "big" industry: multibillion dollar interests (catering to viewers who want to see sex without condoms) against working individuals.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I did a big research project on "ethical porn" and my basic takeaway was that... it's not a black and white issue.

Before the project, I tended to lean more towards the anti-porn camp. I wasn't hard-over about it, but I had trouble seeing it as good in any way. But, like most things, it's a complex and nuanced issue and I don't think either side is very willing to see that.

It's true that the industry is rife with drugs, alcohol, and STDs (the pro side will explain this away as "there are lost souls in any profession"). It's true that most porn actors don't get paid very much -- most of the money in the industry goes to the producers.

It's also true that people are judged very harshly for participating, in my opinion overly so. It's true that there are people who WANT to do porn, and who view it as sexually liberating. And, it's true that there is ethically produced porn, where people use condoms and get paid a decent wage.

Now, I may have more to say later, but I have to go -- for now, I do have one more important point. It is very dangerous to minimize the risk of AIDS as an "occupational hazard." AIDS kills, and while it may be treatable (for a certain period of time, and expensively; but it will kill you), it's also very preventable. Blacklung is an "occupational hazard" of coal mining, but we take steps to prevent it. I don't see why safer sex should be dismissed as an issue of choice, because essentially, porn is the same as any other "big" industry: multibillion dollar interests (catering to viewers who want to see sex without condoms) against working individuals.

Did you read my link

Porn Stars Speak Out: STDs, Drugs and Abuse | Pink Cross Foundation

Whether there is ethical porn or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is where most porn actresses will flock to and that's the well paying unethical side. The women from the link I posted are the highest paid in the industry with Jenna making 15 mil in a year.

There is wwe wrestling which is riddled with steroids and prescription and recreational drug and drink addiction. There is also ethical county fair type wrestling which no one watches.

Why do people flock to wwe despite the risks?

Money and performance

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Did you read my link

Porn Stars Speak Out: STDs, Drugs and Abuse | Pink Cross Foundation

Whether there is ethical porn or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is where most porn actresses will flock to and that's the well paying unethical side. The women from the link I posted are the highest paid in the industry with Jenna making 15 mil in a year.

There is wwe wrestling which is riddled with steroids and prescription and recreational drug and drink addiction. There is also ethical county fair type wrestling which no one watches.

Why do people flock to wwe despite the risks?

Money and performance

I read your link. I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with, because I addressed all of this in my post. If I can clarify something, please do let me know.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

By the way, I've never seen a porn actor who used a condom.

I have. They can use a condom for the intercourse or the bj, and then take it off for the "money shot". The risk for STD's just by getting sperm on your face is very VERY small.

Anyway.

No matter if you or anyone else thinks this is the right career path for you... doesn't mean that you have to shame, think bad or think less about those people who do take this career path.

There is nothing wrong with this, as long as it is a free choice made by those men and women, and not because of poverty, low self esteem or anything else.

And the same can be said for any type of profession.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I have. They can use a condom for the intercourse or the bj, and then take it off for the "money shot". The risk for STD's just by getting sperm on your face is very VERY small.

Anyway.

No matter if you or anyone else thinks this is the right career path for you... doesn't mean that you have to shame, think bad or think less about those people who do take this career path.

There is nothing wrong with this, as long as it is a free choice made by those men and women, and not because of poverty, low self esteem or anything else.

And the same can be said for any type of profession.

After working a lot of crappy jobs over the years, I can safely say that regular jobs can be more degrading than working in porn can...though I cannot say for sure, as I have never done porn. At least they get paid more.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Oh and one more thing... I've noticed that most of the discussion in this thread talks about female porn stars (and all that slut shaming stuff ), and doesn't mention at all the fact that there are a goodly number of male porn stars too.

Porn seems to be a reasonably equal opportunity industry, so if all those female porn stars are classless sluts, what are the males?? Why does it seem to be only the females who are denigrated?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Why do people flock to wwe despite the risks?

Money and performance

I think that the statement above does mix up the difference between the performers and the audience.

There's a big difference. It's the difference between watching porn and being a porn actor/actress.

You can't catch AIDS from watching porn.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

. Ask CroMagna (a poster here, who worked as a stripper until she lost confidence. Why did she lose confidence? Couldn't stay slim enough, over time).

I'm still working as a stripper, thank you.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by arpee

So, yes, the porn stars ARE expressing their love, their PHYSICAL/MATERIAL love of each others bodies...

Nah. It's a job. If you are assigned these five particular bodies today, you gotta do it whether you particularly like those five bodies or not. And whether you feel like it or not.

It's like WWE, see? You may not like to be in the same ring as Mark Henry and have him jump on you and sit on you, sweaty chest, torso, buttocks and all. But it's a job, you took it, you do it. And you let him do it to you.

[ZephyrusX]

I'm assuming that most porn is not ethically produced. What factors either facilitate or prevent sex workers from working in a ethical porn industry?

Feel free to just throw links at me if you want. I'd prefer it, actually.

Originally Posted by Criseyde

It's also true that people are judged very harshly for participating, in my opinion overly so. It's true that there are people who WANT to do porn, and who view it as sexually liberating. And, it's true that there is ethically produced porn, where people use condoms and get paid a decent wage.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

I'm still working as a stripper, thank you.

Good for you. You did have that phase.

Anyway, working as a stripper is much smarter than working as a porn actress. No risk of AIDS.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Good for you. You did have that phase.

Anyway, working as a stripper is much smarter than working as a porn actress. No risk of AIDS.

Thanks. It's true, I did have that phase.

I totally agree with you that working in porn is stupid. You're having unprotected sex with hundreds of individuals. There are sometimes AIDS scares where the whole industry has to be shut down. It actually makes more sense to work as a legal prostitute because at least they must use condoms.

I agree that the sex industry is a dead end job. I don't plan to strip for much longer, I just don't have anything else yet. I've gotten it out of my system, finally. I was obsessed with the power trip. I was heavily influenced by Camille Paglia, who said women in the sex industry are pagan goddesses. Now I think she's an ivory tower idiot with no common sense.

Like you said, there are no transferable skills. There's also a five year gap in your resume/CV. You have to lie and say you were waiting tables but what happens if the prospective employer wants to call the restaurant where you worked?

Unlike stripping and prostitution, if you do porn, your private life is made public. That could traumatize your family, cause you to be slut shamed, or it could prevent from finding another job.

Even if you're Jenna Jameson and you can make so much you can retire, it's not worth the health risks.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by TinaC

Gary, you make some great points but you have to understand hun that the girls who make those movies don’t have any class and they have been brought up in families where it’s okay to be a slut and sell their bodies for the cameras.

They do those movies because they were too lazy to get a decent education like the rest of us and they give girls like me that do a bad name.

Class is diplomacy and decorum, so it appears you're the one who doesn't have any class. You're acting no different from a guest on The Jerry Springer Show. That's trashy.

As someone with an Ivy League degree and who has been in the sex industry, I can testify that getting a decent education is a lot easier than doing porn. All you have to do is sit down and read. How hard is it? Meanwhile, porn stars have to work out to keep their bodies in tip top form, and they have to do amazing tricks in bed with several guys a day. You can't be a lazy stripper, porn star, or prostitute otherwise you'll be making two bucks.

They're not giving you a bad name. That's so middle school. That's just an excuse to feel offended about something that is really none of your business.

As for morals, morality is the Golden Rule, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Sex has nothing to do with morals. You're hurting no one by having sex with them. In Xtianity, it's "love thy neighbor as thyself". So apparently you're the one who lacks moral fiber.

I get the impression that you think you could do porn but that you're above doing it. What makes you think you're cut out for it? You're probably not the look they're after. You're also too uptight. You probably don't have the body, the skills, and you lack the charisma. That's why there are millions of amateur porn stars who wish they could turn professional but never will because no one wants to see them take their clothes off, much less pay them for it.

In my experience, when women are offended by porn, there's jealousy at the root.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I'm assuming that most porn is not ethically produced. What factors either facilitate or prevent sex workers from working in a ethical porn industry?

Feel free to just throw links at me if you want. I'd prefer it, actually.

I don't actually have a lot of links -- much of what I found is behind an academic wall, or in documentaries. Also, my computer with all my notes on it is dead now, so I only have what made it into the final paper (not nearly as much as what I actually found).

First, it's really difficult to do any kind of rigorous study, because sex workers are notoriously difficult to get hold of and interview. Porn actors and actresses aren't as hard to find as prostitutes and pimps, but it's still not easy. It's also really, really hard to find information that's not slanted with the writer's bias. Even sociologists have agendas.

Let's define "ethical," though. This is what I used in my paper: a porn site should pay actors a fair wage, use condoms, test regularly for STIs, and ensure that all the sex depicted is consensual. (I pulled that from NOW Toronto: NOW // Love and Sex 2010 // Can you be an ethical porn user? | NOW Magazine)

One huge, huge factor working against ethical porn is free/illegal downloading. When you view free porn, you're basically ensuring that the actors aren't getting paid -- it's not the studios that are taking the hit. Same as in the music industry.

There's also the increased availability of porn. Things that used to be considered niche, fringe, etc. are becoming more mainstream (anal, 2-in-1, S&M). So if you want to keep your job/make decent (or even just okay) money, you have to do those things. (I watched one documentary where they showed a scene being filmed in a studio, and after it was done, the actress got up, went over to the trash can, and started throwing up. In the interest of full disclosure, this documentary was very clearly anti-porn.) I think this is basically the same effect you see with television and movies generally: the more we get used to, the farther "out there" you have to go in order to keep viewers titillated. Of course it IS consensual (and they all sign contracts saying so), because if it weren't, it would be rape and the entire studio would be shut down. There is actually very little non-consensual sex happening in the mainstream US porn industry.

And then there's the fact that viewers want to see sex without condoms. For some reason a condom just isn't as sexy, or something. Sorry, I have a very dim opinion of this. Basically, the average porn viewer doesn't much care if the people getting them off are healthy and safe. If viewers would watch porn with condoms and pay for their porn, the people who actually work in the industry would be better off.


I also started looking into the commodification of sex as a function of a society in which sexuality is strictly regulated. In a certain sense, being a sex worker is the only acceptable way for a woman to have public sexuality. If she is a sex worker, she is legitimized at least in the eyes of some. If she's not, she's just a floozy. But this is a tough one because there's a lot of hard evidence that over-sexualization is bad for women's mental health, and commodification/sexualization (= being treated as a body and little more) is at the heart of the sex industry. Anyway, that's something I've personally struggled with, so I'm not going to go into it any more because I'm biased.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Even if you're Jenna Jameson and you can make so much you can retire, it's not worth the health risks.

Mmmm, now let's talk about possible career earnings.

The top earners in almost any industry will earn a lot. But not every fund manager is going to be Warren Buffett. Not every actor is going to be George Clooney. Not every tennis player is going to be a Roger Federer. Not every IT developer is going to be a Steve Jobs. Not every singer is going to be a Lady Gaga. Not every blogger is going to be a Steve Pavlina.

And not every porn actress is going to be a Jenna Jameson.

So from a career perspective, it is probably more sensible to consider what is the median income; or average income; of a person working in that industry. And if you are ambitious, you could maybe consider looking at the income of the folks in the top quartile of the industry.

But looking at the income of the top 0.01% earners is probably not realistic. (If there are 10,000 porn actresses in the USA and Jenna represents the top of the pack, then she's in the top 0.01%).

Now, what does the average porn actor or actress earn?

I don't know. I have no experience in such an industry. My educated guess is - not very much. I say this, based on the usual economic reason. The demand for porn is high; the use of technology improves the productivity; but the start-up costs are low; the barriers to entry are low; and the supply is high.

It's actually similar to blogging. The challenges of making money from blogging are similar to the challenges of making decent money from acting in porn.

So many people in the world can write; have a computer; and have Internet access. This means that they already meet all the basic requirements of being a professional blogger.

So many people in the world have a penis; or a vagina; and know how to have sex. This means that they already meet all the basic requirements of being a porn actor.

In other words, it's VERY competitive.

And the other key point is that as time passes, the worker becomes less and less valuable (young, attractive bodies are favoured - old folks are not). This is unlike most other industries, where experience accumulated over time tends to make you more valuable (eg an engineer with 10 years experience is more valuable than an engineer who just graduated).

[ZephyrusX]

Really? How odd. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by Criseyde

And then there's the fact that viewers want to see sex without condoms. For some reason a condom just isn't as sexy, or something. Sorry, I have a very dim opinion of this. Basically, the average porn viewer doesn't much care if the people getting them off are healthy and safe. If viewers would watch porn with condoms and pay for their porn, the people who actually work in the industry would be better off.

If ethical porn costs more to produce (higher wages), I take it that it also costs more for the paying consumer to watch? Is it generally easy to find ethical porn if you want to watch it?

I also started looking into the commodification of sex as a function of a society in which sexuality is strictly regulated. In a certain sense, being a sex worker is the only acceptable way for a woman to have public sexuality. If she is a sex worker, she is legitimized at least in the eyes of some. If she's not, she's just a floozy. But this is a tough one because there's a lot of hard evidence that over-sexualization is bad for women's mental health, and commodification/sexualization (= being treated as a body and little more) is at the heart of the sex industry. Anyway, that's something I've personally struggled with, so I'm not going to go into it any more because I'm biased.

Too bad. Will you PM me your biased thoughts? I won't respond; I just find your thoughts interesting. Besides, I'm just trying to get my mind around it still. Zephy doesn't understand. You speak too smart.

What do you mean by this:

In a certain sense, being a sex worker is the only acceptable way for a woman to have public sexuality. If she is a sex worker, she is legitimized at least in the eyes of some. If she's not, she's just a floozy.

What sort of mental health problems are you referring to?

[ZephyrusX]

For those interested in a legal and labour rights perspective rather than a moralistic perspective, I've been having fun with these two sites.

Feminisnt » Somewhat disjointed grievances on porno pay rates, transparency, and a pinch of boring labor politics

SWAAY > Sex Work Activists, Allies, and You

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

It is very dangerous to minimize the risk of AIDS as an "occupational hazard." AIDS kills, and while it may be treatable (for a certain period of time, and expensively; but it will kill you), it's also very preventable. Blacklung is an "occupational hazard" of coal mining, but we take steps to prevent it. I don't see why safer sex should be dismissed as an issue of choice, because essentially, porn is the same as any other "big" industry: multibillion dollar interests (catering to viewers who want to see sex without condoms) against working individuals.

I don't know whether this was directed at me, but I thought I would comment.

I didn't mean to sound like I was minimizing the risk of AIDS, if I did?

I certainly don't think it is a wise thing to have sex with multiple strangers without a condom. What I was trying to say to ALG was that AIDS is screened for in most cases, and regularly...so it's not something that is taken lightly...as he seemed to be suggesting.

I guess I was making the point that 20 years ago, a lot of fear was pumped out via the media, when AIDS first appeared and many people got freaked out about it, especially when so many people started dropping off.

These days, a person can stretch their life span a good 20 years or more possibly with drugs to assist with the virus. That doesn't mean that people need to lax off or not take precautions, but it does mean that if a person does get it, they won't die soon after they are infected, as they once did. I was mentioning it more for the fact that there isn't as much FEAR surrounding it as there once was because at least it is treatable now...and yes, it's expensive, so only those who could afford it, can live longer once infected! Obviously prevention is better than a cure.

Is that a good or a bad thing that there is less fear surrounding AIDS?

In one way the fear would provide more motivation for people to take proper pre caution, but in a way also, being overly fearful about anything isn't really the best way to live either. There are many different diseases out there that will kill us if we get them...and being full of fear about dying can hinder enjoyment of living quite a lot.

Many people do a lot to prevent getting cancer, like become very regimented with their diet and obsessed with their health so they don't eat anything that can bring it on...and they are usually the ones who get it! Loads of people who don't even smoke die from cancer every year. Condoms aren't 100% full proof, but they are better than nothing.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I don't know whether this was directed at me, but I thought I would comment.

I didn't mean to sound like I was minimizing the risk of AIDS, if I did?

I certainly don't think it is a wise thing to have sex with multiple strangers without a condom. What I was trying to say to ALG was that AIDS is screened for in most cases, and regularly...so it's not something that is taken lightly...as he seemed to be suggesting.

Yeah, it is. It's just that every now and then there's a big HIV scare because something happens in between screenings.

I guess I was making the point that 20 years ago, a lot of fear was pumped out via the media, when AIDS first appeared and many people got freaked out about it, especially when so many people started dropping off.

These days, a person can stretch their life span a good 20 years or more possibly with drugs to assist with the virus. That doesn't mean that people need to lax off or not take precautions, but it does mean that if a person does get it, they won't die soon after they are infected, as they once did. I was mentioning it more for the fact that there isn't as much FEAR surrounding it as there once was because at least it is treatable now...and yes, it's expensive, so only those who could afford it, can live longer once infected! Obviously prevention is better than a cure.

Is that a good or a bad thing that there is less fear surrounding AIDS?

I don't really care (that much) about the level of fear, just about the level of precaution.

In one way the fear would provide more motivation for people to take proper pre caution, but in a way also, being overly fearful about anything isn't really the best way to live either. There are many different diseases out there that will kill us if we get them...and being full of fear about dying can hinder enjoyment of living quite a lot.

Many people do a lot to prevent getting cancer, like become very regimented with their diet and obsessed with their health so they don't eat anything that can bring it on...and they are usually the ones who get it! Loads of people who don't even smoke die from cancer every year. Condoms aren't 100% full proof, but they are better than nothing.

What most people don't know about AIDS and condoms is that condoms are nearly 100% effective in preventing its spread. That's why charitable organizations go to Africa and hand them out. HIV is not a very aggressive virus -- that is, it doesn't infect people easily. Transmission rates during vaginal intercourse even without condoms are low (something like .1% -- it gets transmitted 1 in every 1000 times), so you're unlikely to get it from having sex once with someone who has HIV (you're much more likely to get it from sharing needles). You can, of course, but most people get it because they had multiple encounters with an HIV-positive person.

This means that condoms work great. They are better at preventing HIV transmission than they are at preventing pregnancy. HIV doesn't even have to be an issue in the porn industry. The only reason it is, even to the extent that it is, is that the industry largely doesn't use condoms.

[GaryMichaels]

I didn’t say men who can’t get girlfriends are the only types of people who watch porn. If you read my previous posts you would see I also mentioned men going through midlife crises (such as Hailey’s Uncle) and people in unhappy marriages. If a man is truly happy in his relationship he shouldn’t have to watch porn because the woman he is with should be enough for him. If not his relationship is obviously lacking and this could be caused by a number of things. Perhaps his partner might not be all he had hoped for, he might not find her physically attractive or she might have a low sex drive.

I will agree with you that porn is not the glamorous feminine empowering experience a lot of people think it is if ninety percent of these women are using drugs. As a former drug addict myself, I know for a fact most people that use drugs such as cocaine, speed, ecstasy, ice etc are unhappy with their lives and so are people that have to drink to “escape reality” as one of the porn stars mentioned on the site you listed. In a way, I think you just answered my question about porn being a dream career or the bottom of the barrel. Perhaps most of these women are just addicts and need things such as sex, drugs and alcohol to make them happy which is the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.

These women have grown dependent and I would hate to see what they would be like if they were starved of these addictions for a few months. Most of the articles I have seen about porn stars on the news have been about them being charged with such crimes as burglary, domestic violence, possession of a weapon, attempted murder, rape, statutory rape, providing drugs to a minor and the most common, assault. With charges like these it doesn’t appear porn is a dream life at all. I am not going to judge these women for doing porn but people who get charged with the above crimes are scum.

As for my stats, I get them from my friends and my Fiancée’s friends not from forums. Most of these women watch horror movies but dislike porn and find it degrading to women.

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Class is diplomacy and decorum, so it appears you're the one who doesn't have any class. You're acting no different from a guest on The Jerry Springer Show. That's trashy.

As someone with an Ivy League degree and who has been in the sex industry, I can testify that getting a decent education is a lot easier than doing porn. All you have to do is sit down and read. How hard is it? Meanwhile, porn stars have to work out to keep their bodies in tip top form, and they have to do amazing tricks in bed with several guys a day. You can't be a lazy stripper, porn star, or prostitute otherwise you'll be making two bucks.

They're not giving you a bad name. That's so middle school. That's just an excuse to feel offended about something that is really none of your business.

As for morals, morality is the Golden Rule, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Sex has nothing to do with morals. You're hurting no one by having sex with them. In Xtianity, it's "love thy neighbor as thyself". So apparently you're the one who lacks moral fiber.

I get the impression that you think you could do porn but that you're above doing it. What makes you think you're cut out for it? You're probably not the look they're after. You're also too uptight. You probably don't have the body, the skills, and you lack the charisma. That's why there are millions of amateur porn stars who wish they could turn professional but never will because no one wants to see them take their clothes off, much less pay them for it.

In my experience, when women are offended by porn, there's jealousy at the root.

I disagree. While this may have been ‘your’ experience this is not always the case. My Fiancée was a model that posed nude and is currently in the best physical condition of her life. She works out every day and could quite easily be a WWE Diva. I would go as far to argue she is one of the most beautiful women in the world (not just because I love her) and she would have never done porn before she was raped because she finds it degrading to women. Most of her friends are beautiful and some still are modelling and they wouldn’t do porn either because they have the same opinion.

While Tina’s posts are controversial and I don’t agree with her plastering it all over this thread this is an opinion that is held by a lot of women and it has nothing to do with their looks. I don’t agree with this perspective but I understand why she has it. There are women that are sick of being judged by their looks (such as my Fiancée) and want to be recognised for their brains and who they are inside but they have trouble getting this in work places because a lot of people only judge on looks.

I also disagree that getting a decent education is easier than becoming a porn star. This is one of the most outrageous claims I have ever heard and I think you might be confusing education with decent education. Most people have to study very hard to get into the top universities and if it was easy to become a business man, a doctor, a journalist, a professor, a lawyer, a scientist, a psychologist or a politician, a teacher etc everybody would be rich. No offense but do you even realise how much hard work goes into a job like that? To say being a porn star is harder is the biggest load of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have ever heard.

[GaryMichaels]

Originally Posted by Orecle

There is wwe wrestling which is riddled with steroids and prescription and recreational drug and drink addiction. There is also ethical county fair type wrestling which no one watches.

Why do people flock to wwe despite the risks?

Money and performance

Have you noticed the amount of wrestlers WWE have suspended lately? WWE are cracking down on this and steroids are becoming a thing of the past in wrestling with smaller wrestlers such as James Storm, Bobby Roode, AJ Styles, CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio and Daniel Bryan becoming main eventers.

You don't have to look like Hulk Hogan to be a wrestler anymore.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

What most people don't know about AIDS and condoms is that condoms are nearly 100% effective in preventing its spread. That's why charitable organizations go to Africa and hand them out. HIV is not a very aggressive virus -- that is, it doesn't infect people easily. Transmission rates during vaginal intercourse even without condoms are low (something like .1% -- it gets transmitted 1 in every 1000 times), so you're unlikely to get it from having sex once with someone who has HIV (you're much more likely to get it from sharing needles). You can, of course, but most people get it because they had multiple encounters with an HIV-positive person.

Whilst condoms are definitely very close to 100% effective, there is also a risk that they will tear or break all together. It's happened to me with partners in the past, and I've known women who have fallen pregnant this way as well. Obviously this renders them still a risk to a degree, though most of the time they won't break.

This means that condoms work great. They are better at preventing HIV transmission than they are at preventing pregnancy. HIV doesn't even have to be an issue in the porn industry. The only reason it is, even to the extent that it is, is that the industry largely doesn't use condoms.

I agree with this. If they just wore them there wouldn't even need to be regular tests or concern about it. I do think that with many porn scenes...especially the more rough and hardcore scenes...I would imagine tearing of condoms would happen a lot...which might also be a factor in why they simply opt to not use them besides the more obvious visually unappealing side of things...which is a pretty silly reason to omit them, but understandable given that society is driven by superficiality.