[ADULT] Split thread: Porn (actors, effects, attitudes toward)

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Different people have different values in life. There is nothing wrong with respecting that.

Sorry, but I think that it is stupid.

There is another thread - where a guy says that he plans to take up smoking. I said that was stupid. IIRC, I think Elucidate was also participating in that thread and she said it was stupid.

I think that planning to take up smoking is stupid, because of the high health risks of cancer etc. I would expect that Elucidate thinks it's stupid, for similar reasons.

But it is not stupid to take up a job with high health risks of AIDS? Errrr, what is the key difference here.

The key difference here seems to be money. You can make money, from porn, but you can't make money from smoking.

Then again most people can also make money from other things that don't come with risk of fatal or incurable diseases. Which is why I wrote - entering the porn industry is dumb, unless you have no other options.

Different people have different values in life - that doesn't mean that there are no stupid decisions or people in the world.

[ZephyrusX]

I think people are questioningly whether it is inherently wrong to participate in sex as an occupation. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I do think the sex industry can be quite harmful, but not because there isn't anything wrong with sex as an occupation in it self. Different legislation and working conditions empower sex workers or strip them of meaningful choices. Prostitution on Canadian streets is quite stupid. People choose to do it knowing that they risk being harmed because they don't see any better choices considering their circumstances (i.e poverty). This is something wrong with the sex industry though and not in the act of sex it self.

I do think it is possible to make the sex industry safer to work in, and in all honestly, I think we should. I'm not sure why prostitution is even illegal.

[votoshka]

Interesting thread! I am personally not a porn fan, but I am something of a horror fan myself (and I've written my share of horror as well).

I must admit that I never liked my husband watching porn, not so much because porn is EVIL or what have you, but because I don't look ANYTHING like a porn star... it just made me feel ugly and inadequate.

I have heard of people making a LOT of money in the porn industry. Some women make much, much more than they ever would in a regular career. So kudos to them if they enjoy it and profit from it. I was friends with a girl who was a prostitute a few years back. She didn't want to stay a prostitute forever, but ended up in that situation while being unemployed and looking for work. She made really good money, and I ended up thinking of it as more a career that exploits men more than women. The women can make a LOT of money and the men just seemed to me like poor pathetic blokes who have to pay $100 an hour or more just to get laid.

I also met a few of her friends who worked in the same brothel she did, and most were just really nice girls, some were students trying to pay their way, another was a single mum trying to support her child.

Personally, I don't know any porn stars, and yeah, I'd guess there's not much of a porn industry in Australia, considering X rated porn is illegal in all Australian states (you can get it legally in the territories though... which is kinda funny... considering the ACT is where the federal government is and you'd think they'd crack down in their own tiny little area instead of in the rest of the country).

I found it fascinating when I went to Germany and you could just switch on the TV in your hotel room and see full on hard core porn... in fact... we accidentally paid for it because we watched too much (like over 1 minute) because we were sort of stunned that it was just THERE lol.

But anyway, after all of that, I have no less respect for a woman because seh's a porn star or a prostitute, or whatever. I only feel bad for women who are forced into it through some sort of slavery or whatever (which can happen overseas), and I think that is a terrible, terrible thing that should be stopped. However, if someone chooses to get into it themselves, and enjoys it, and doesn't feel exploited, and does well for herself, then good for her!

[Acting Like Godot]

I have a male friend who is a prostitute. His customers are male.

One day, he called me up and asked me for some free legal advice. He wouldn't state all the facts very clearly, but it had to do with visitation rights at a hospital and whether a lover (not a relative, not a spouse) had the right to visit (if the patient's family objected) and furthermore whether the lover had the right to claim the body, decide on the funeral rights etc. There were questions also about whether one could use certain monies to pay for a lover's medical expenses (this gas something to do with national healthcare system in my country).

I gather that my friend or his boyfriend may be HIV-positive and they are doing some forward planning, fir one or the other's impending death by AIDS. I also deduced this, from the fact that my friend (who is also a published poet) was writing poems about being ill and dying.

So anyway it's his life and different people have different values but these are the risks of being promiscuous. He is in his mid-30s now.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I know. Then you have to explain to the employer what you have been doing for the past five years.

If you lie and say I was actually working in X, Y, Z, then you run the risk of being caught out and exposed, eg a few technical questions about your knowledge of the field.

Ok, I see what you are saying there. I don't really know how they deal with that...though I have been in the same situation from having to take time out dealing with depressive episodes, and elaborated on the time frame of when I was at certain jobs, and didn't get caught.

Many employers don't even check things like that. Some do though.

Compare this to someone who spent a few years in a regular job, gaining experience AND saving money, and then launching their own business, with the help of the relevant experience they gained during those years of that particular industry.

Yes, no one is saying either way is better or worse...although you seem to be saying that the regular job person is probably morally better?

Are you suggesting that porn stars don't learn anything that is relevant to running a business later on in their chosen profession? I think there would be a lot to learn in that field...and there's always night school to study business or any other area that is of interest.

You're also assuming that none of them have ever had a regular job before. This is just wrong. Most porn stars don't go straight from school into the industry. They end up there mainly because they are sick of regular jobs and want to make more money doing something they love.

Marvellous.

I guess we have very different thinking here. I turned down very lucrative jobs in Hong Kong, just because I don't like the air pollution.

And here - you say AIDS is an acceptable occupational hazard.

I really didn't think that you of all people would jump to such a conclusion.

I never said that AIDS is an acceptable occupational hazard. If you read my words the way I typed them, I clearly stated that mandatory std tests are done regularly in porn, and I was referring to the more un-fatal viruses out there that can be discomfortable for a while and treatable with medication, so they go away.

I only mentioned AIDS as being treatable these days too because...well, it is. I didn't say that it's an acceptable occupational hazard and obviously if someone had AIDS and it showed up on their test, they would not be hired for the job.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sorry, but I think that it is stupid.

There is another thread - where a guy says that he plans to take up smoking. I said that was stupid. IIRC, I think Elucidate was also participating in that thread and she said it was stupid.

I think that planning to take up smoking is stupid, because of the high health risks of cancer etc. I would expect that Elucidate thinks it's stupid, for similar reasons.

But it is not stupid to take up a job with high health risks of AIDS? Errrr, what is the key difference here.

The key difference here seems to be money. You can make money, from porn, but you can't make money from smoking.

Then again most people can also make money from other things that don't come with risk of fatal or incurable diseases. Which is why I wrote - entering the porn industry is dumb, unless you have no other options.

Different people have different values in life - that doesn't mean that there are no stupid decisions or people in the world.

The key difference is, as I said earlier, which you neglected to mention, that in most companies, they screen the people before they shoot to check if they have AIDS. It takes something like waiting for 6 months to make sure the tests are clear, so it's something that is taken seriously in most companies that want to have at least a half decent reputation for producing quality porn.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Yes. There might be better ways if your end result is only to create your own business.

However, if your goal in life is to have fun, make money, be entertained and love your life, going there via porn might be a very valid way.

Not everybody has a huge end goal and schedule their life around that. Some people prefer to live in the moment.

Yes, exactly.

Sex is very much an in the moment thing, and when you are young, some people live for this. They aren't thinking of future goals. Future and past exist in the moment, and that is a very exciting way to live.

It might not be for everyone, and goal oriented people may not understand that, but it's still is a valid choice for people who love their lives and want to do this.

Different people have different values in life. There is nothing wrong with respecting that.

Well said.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by votoshka

I ended up thinking of it as more a career that exploits men more than women. The women can make a LOT of money and the men just seemed to me like poor pathetic blokes who have to pay $100 an hour or more just to get laid.

This is really true.

Lots of men go to brothels or massage parlors because they are lonely and craving affection, and they will pay just about anything in the moment to the woman for little 'extras'.

It could be seen as exploitation on the womens part, but I see it as an exchange whereby the woman is also being tempted in a way. He is willing to pay more, and she is providing a service that makes him feel good...so where is the bad there. Both are getting what they want and need out of the exchange.

I also met a few of her friends who worked in the same brothel she did, and most were just really nice girls, some were students trying to pay their way, another was a single mum trying to support her child.

I've known some prostitutes and ex prostitutes before and they mostly all had huge hearts of gold...unlike many people who work regular jobs, or who run businesses.

Prostitution isn't just about being a sexual service, it's about being a counselor too and some clients will only want to talk, and pay the same amount as they would for sex, just to have the women hold them and listen to them talk.

They're getting their needs met, which may not be being fulfilled in their home lives.

Personally, I don't know any porn stars, and yeah, I'd guess there's not much of a porn industry in Australia, considering X rated porn is illegal in all Australian states (you can get it legally in the territories though... which is kinda funny... considering the ACT is where the federal government is and you'd think they'd crack down in their own tiny little area instead of in the rest of the country).

What about "Girls gone wild"? I thought that was legitimate company producing porn? Then again, it's not something I'm really up to date with.

It is funny how canberra is the porn (and heroin) capital of Australia and it is where parliament resides, and all the Diplomatic circuits are as well. Makes you wonder...?

But anyway, after all of that, I have no less respect for a woman because seh's a porn star or a prostitute, or whatever. I only feel bad for women who are forced into it through some sort of slavery or whatever (which can happen overseas), and I think that is a terrible, terrible thing that should be stopped. However, if someone chooses to get into it themselves, and enjoys it, and doesn't feel exploited, and does well for herself, then good for her!

I agree.

I also think that there is a misconception that it's 'easy money', and although the money is much better in that industry, and they are having fun, I don't think it can be said that it's necessarily an easy job. In prostitution, I think even in brothels the women get chosen...I'm not sure that they have much say in who they choose to go with...so they can end up having sex with some pretty 'undesirable' people that they might not have chosen if it were up to them.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, no one is saying either way is better or worse...although you seem to be saying that the regular job person is probably morally better?

Are you suggesting that porn stars don't learn anything that is relevant to running a business later on in their chosen profession? I think there would be a lot to learn in that field

Yes, I am saying their experience lacks transferability, into other kinds of jobs (except prostitution - where the age issue arises again).

I only mentioned AIDS as being treatable these days too because...well, it is. I didn't say that it's an acceptable occupational hazard and obviously if someone had AIDS and it showed up on their test, they would not be hired for the job.

Please .... AIDS is not just about getting your job. It's about your health, your life.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Please .... AIDS is not just about getting your job. It's about your health, your life.

What tha...??

You are reading things into what I have typed that aren't even there.

I know that AIDS is not about not getting your job. I also know it is a serious life threatening disease. I am not taking it half as lightly as you are making it out that I am.

All I am saying is that measures are taken to prevent anyone getting AIDS in the porn industry. Why are you trying to turn what I am saying around into something else?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Sex is very much an in the moment thing, and when you are young, some people live for this. They aren't thinking of future goals. Future and past exist in the moment, and that is a very exciting way to live.

You're talking about sex. But the topic is about being a porn actress. There's a difference.

I didn't say - don't have sex. I said - I think it's stupid to be a porn actress if you have other options, because:

1. The health risks are high
2. As a means of income, it's relatively short-lived
3. Experience gained is not easily transferable elsewhere

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You're talking about sex. But the topic is about being a porn actress. There's a difference.

I didn't say - don't have sex. I said - I think it's stupid to be a porn actress if you have other options, because:

1. The health risks are high
2. As a means of income, it's relatively short-lived
3. Experience gained is not easily transferable elsewhere

You're entitled to your opinion.

I'm not going to argue with you about it anymore.

[Acting Like Godot]

In a way, it is like being a professional athlete. The same main disadvantage applies. The shelf life is short. After a while, you have to retire because you can't keep up with the younger bodies.

The plus side of being a professional athlete is that the experience tends to be much more transferable. Commonly, for example, former professional athletes become sports coaches, sports managers and fitness instructors later in life. It's a natural progression.

The other plus side, of course, is that they don't run the occupational hazards of AIDS, herpes, syphilis etc.

Ex-porn actresses become ... what? I don't know. But they probably start from scratch all over again.

[elucidate]

There are advantages and disadvantages to every job and most people will change careers at least once or twice in a lifetime...so what's the diff?

Porn stars can go on to be pretty much anything they want to, if they invest their money wisely and save as much as possible on their ride (pun intended).

Look at Chichalina!

[Acting Like Godot]

For me, the health risk alone and by itself is enough for me to conclude that a porn career is a bad decision.

The other factors are in addition to the above.

Changing careers is one thing - people can often bring experience from one sort of career into another sort of career. But the porn industry experience is not easily transferable. There are no obvious natural progressions into other industries or job types - except prostitution.

[elucidate]

Who says it has to be a natural progression though?

A porn star could be studying to be an astro physicist by day and shooting by night...you don't know. Just because they like sex, doesn't mean they also don't like aeronautical engineering, and at least porn can help them pay for their education without relying on parents or government.

It's not about leading to anything as a natural progression, it's about making money and having fun while it lasts and hopefully using the money to create something longer lasting for when the ride is over. If they don't though, then they still have that time in their lives to look back on and hopefully smile at. Not everyone wants a career.

You seem to be stuck on this concept that it must lead to something else in the same field.

Yes, a person can make the same kind of money in a regular job...it just might take 25 years more, and they might not have as much fun getting there, as someone in porn would...does that mean the porn star is being dishonest?

I don't think so, as they are being totally honest with themselves and the people they are working with. They all want to make good money, fast, having fun.

[TinaC]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I think you have a lot of wrong assumptions, harsh judgements and prejudice here, as well as some ignorance about the industry in general. You are placing yourself above them. Does that make you feel like you are better than they are?

I personally have never heard of families like you describe, where they raise their kids to sell their bodies, except perhaps in Asia, where families are so poor they are forced to sell their own children into sex slavery, which is devastatingly sad.

Do you really know families like this, or is that just something you've heard through someone else that exists out there? Honestly...

Where did you get the idea that they are merely too lazy to get a decent education? Apart from being wrong, given that many porn stars are actually quite intelligent and have degrees...and CHOOSE to do porn because they love sex, how do you know they AREN'T getting a decent education. Loads of women do porn to PAY for their decent education...did you realize that?

I can see how that would make some people, who have had to sling burgers for pittance for years to pay for their education a bit bitter, but come on...they could have done porn too, they chose not to because they wanted to be seen to be "decent and honest" by people around them. Women in porn generally don't give a damn what anyone thinks, which shows a strong mind right there.

What gives you the idea that a decent education is the only way to "make it" in this world? Lots of millionaire business men started off without any education at all, bar the basic grade school. They didn't go to university, yet they had initiative and drive to succeed and they did.

Did you even consider that many people just don't know what they want to do when they are young, and so they don't go to uni because they can't decide what direction is best for them. At least with porn, they know they like sex and they can get paid well for it.

How exactly do porn stars give 'girls like you' a bad name, by doing what they love to do, and by doing what THEY CHOOSE to do with their own bodies?

'Girls like you' are what give the sisterhood a bad name.

I only slut-shame women who deserve to be slut-shamed and porn stars are the worst. How can you say they have class when they have sex with hundreds of different partners they don’t know for money? We should be calling them whores. As women we are brought up with good morals and we are supposed to be better than that! Whatever happened to class? Class is defined as elegance of manner and moral behaviour and what they are doing is degrading to all of us.

Look up the song whatever happened to class and listen to the lyrics.

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

They say porn is degrading to women as it objectifies them and gives men the impression they are nothing more than sex objects.

This is why porn should be banned and why it will never be accepted by millions of gals like me.

Originally Posted by Agota

Please forgive me for being blunt, but I think that women who slut-shame other women are the ones who have no class

Defending them only makes it worse Darl and I kinda think you must be blind if you can’t see all the negative affects porn is having on our society.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

There you are, having sex with all kinds of people whom you do not really know. Except that you know that they too are porn actors who regularly have sex with all kind of people they do not know. What does this add up to? Very high risk of getting STDs.

Good point

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

My Fiancée knows Peter Garrett (of Midnight Oil) as Uncle Peter because he was a close friend of her Father.

My Dad would be totally jealous lol

Originally Posted by votoshka

porn is EVIL

Exactly

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

My Fiancée and I were paid moderators on a music channel’s forum for close to three years and we came cross some very sick and twisted individuals who posted pictures of bent and infected penises, surgery, people peeing and pooping in the mouths of other people, people having sex with animals, people sticking things up their bums etc. Most of the pictures made my Fiancée spew and I came very close to doing the same thing. This was all started by one woman’s obsession with an artist.

Gross!

I've seen some dirty stuff on forums from porn spammers too but none as bad as what you saw. Did the channel help you get rid of it?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by TinaC

I only slut-shame women who deserve to be slut-shamed and porn stars are the worst. How can you say they have class when they have sex with hundreds of different partners they don’t know for money? We should be calling them whores. As women we are brought up with good morals and we are supposed to be better than that! Whatever happened to class? Class is defined as elegance of manner and moral behaviour and what they are doing is degrading to all of us.

For the record I never said they do have class. I don't think they care one way or the other if someone like you thinks they have class or not...they are too busy HAVING FUN, which they probably count as more important!

Since when does class equate with the number of people you sleep with though? When did the number of people you sleep with become the pinnacle of the moral compass?

Do you think it is elegant of you to judge other women you don't know for what they choose to do with their own bodies. What is so classy about judging other women with such harsh words? Who are you to decide what they deserve? If being this judgemental makes you happy then by all means continue. You obviously feel justified in what you feel is true.

Feminism has always been about the woman's right to choose, and for some women choosing this path is something that is an empowering choice. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it any less valid a choice.

To me, it is un-classy to call other women this and judge them so harshly for their right to choose what they want to do, and it reflects a very closed mind. Just because it does not correspond with your own values, does not make them lesser people.

In any case, I have no desire to interact with you about this anymore. You obviously have your mind made up and aren't willing to open it, so I won't bother.

Also, votoshka did not say that porn is EVIL...you misrepresented her quote.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Who says it has to be a natural progression though?

A porn star could be studying to be an astro physicist by day and shooting by night...you don't know. Just because they like sex, doesn't mean they also don't like aeronautical engineering, and at least porn can help them pay for their education without relying on parents or government.

It's not about leading to anything as a natural progression, it's about making money and having fun while it lasts and hopefully using the money to create something longer lasting for when the ride is over. If they don't though, then they still have that time in their lives to look back on and hopefully smile at. Not everyone wants a career.

You seem to be stuck on this concept that it must lead to something else in the same field.

Yes, a person can make the same kind of money in a regular job...it just might take 25 years more, and they might not have as much fun getting there, as someone in porn would...does that mean the porn star is being dishonest?

I don't think so, as they are being totally honest with themselves and the people they are working with. They all want to make good money, fast, having fun.

So I want to know why you think that lung cancer is a good reason not to smoke but AIDS is not a good reason not to have unprotected sex with dozens or hundreds of men.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

All I am saying is that measures are taken to prevent anyone getting AIDS in the porn industry.

Seems like they forgot about the most basic measures.

(1) Avoid sex with multiple partners
(2) Avoid unprotected sex

By the way, I've never seen a porn actor who used a condom.

[arpee]

All of this controversy over sex, wow! People, sex is just sex! It's a way of expressing physical love. It's OK for people to model and look sexy and get money but it's not OK to express a mutual love of a physical body together. I don't see what the big deal is.

If people want to have sex without the condoms, that's their choice, they know the risks...

Also, I heard gay porn pays more than straight porn...

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by arpee

People, sex is just sex! It's a way of expressing physical love.

Oh, now porn is about love.

Next I will be told that porn actresses are actually doing their work in pursuit of spiritual growth.

Gee, all those men in the world, paying good money to watch religious movies on the Internet. How pious.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

So I want to know why you think that lung cancer is a good reason not to smoke but AIDS is not a good reason not to have unprotected sex with dozens or hundreds of men.

You are still not reading my words.

I never said that AIDS is not a good reason to have unprotected sex.

Get back to me when you've actually read my post correctly...and then I might bother answering you.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Seems like they forgot about the most basic measures.

(1) Avoid sex with multiple partners
(2) Avoid unprotected sex

Are you having trouble grasping the concept that if they have been tested for things and it is found they don't have them, OR they all have the same thing which can't be caught twice, then how is it a problem exactly?

By the way, I've never seen a porn actor who used a condom.

You must not have watched too much then. Some people have sex with condoms in porn flicks. Many don't and they are willing to take the risks. Why does it bother you so much what other people choose to do with their lives?

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Also, votoshka did not say that porn is EVIL...you misrepresented her quote.

Yah! Don't you love how easy it is to take something out of context??! I had to go back and re-read my post to figure that one out .

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by arpee

All of this controversy over sex, wow! People, sex is just sex! It's a way of expressing physical love. It's OK for people to model and look sexy and get money but it's not OK to express a mutual love of a physical body together. I don't see what the big deal is.

If people want to have sex without the condoms, that's their choice, they know the risks...

Also, I heard gay porn pays more than straight porn...

Um, I'm pretty sure porn stars aren't expressing their love for one another when they make these films. It's about raw animal sex...F**king!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Yah! Don't you love how easy it is to take something out of context??! I had to go back and re-read my post to figure that one out .

I'm pretty sure it was done deliberately.

If you can't find anyone to validate your viewpoint, just simply re arrange someone elses words to make it look like they are agreeing with you.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by elucidate

You must not have watched too much then. Some people have sex with condoms in porn flicks.

Really?

Seriously, I never noticed. I guess it would really spoil those scenes where the guy ejaculates all over the woman's face. You just can't have footage like that, with a condom on.

Many don't and they are willing to take the risks. Why does it bother you so much what other people choose to do with their lives?

It doesn't bother me. I think that they're stupid, that's all, somewhat similar to people who take up smoking.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Really?

Seriously, I never noticed. I guess it would really spoil those scenes where the guy ejaculates all over the woman's face. You just can't have footage like that, with a condom on.

Not all ejaculation scenes involve the man spilling it on the woman's face. I have seen scenes where condoms are worn, so I know it does happen. Some stars might insist on it, while others are ok with taking the risk.

It doesn't bother me. I think that they're stupid, that's all, somewhat similar to people who take up smoking.

Fair enough. I never said it was a smart decision either...but it's their choice, and they are obviously willing to live with any consequences it might have for them.

[votoshka]

Oh and one more thing... I've noticed that most of the discussion in this thread talks about female porn stars (and all that slut shaming stuff ), and doesn't mention at all the fact that there are a goodly number of male porn stars too.

Porn seems to be a reasonably equal opportunity industry, so if all those female porn stars are classless sluts, what are the males?? Why does it seem to be only the females who are denigrated?