how to help someone who is suicidal?? :(

[raineydaze]

ok, i really dont know what to do about this. i was seeing somebody for a few months before, we're really in love. although he ended up getting back with his ex for complicated reasons, basically he has nowhere else to live, and i didnt see him for 6 weeks due to this. i have seen him once since then, and we really do love eachother. i cant be with him right now as i have nowhere to put him to live. i dont want this post to be based on our relationship though as i know people will have opinions on this.

this guy has had a REALLY tough upbringing, his dad is a very rich psychiatrist, his mother killed himself, and he was brought up by his grandparents, his grandad a priest who used to beat him when he was 5 calling him evil. he then got shipped off to boarding school, has been in prison for fighting 5 years ago, but recently has consitently been back in court.
now i REALLY love this guy, and i know he loves me. he says he never feels emotions, never feels sad, but i make him feel emotion, he says he never feels love but he loves me more than anything in the world, and i believe him.
i'm just getting so worried about him. right now he is living in a place with his girlfriend who is NUTS, she cheats on him constantly and just the other day smashed him over the head with a vodka bottle. his dad has disowned him and thrown him out and the only person in his family who supports him is his younger brother. he cant work despite being super smart cus of his criminal record, although recently started working again. he drinks pretty much constantly.
i wish i could give him a place to live as i feel i am one of the only people in his life that sees the good in him, he constantly says he is twisted and evil, although he never does anything malicious, he says i am the only person who has ever seen good in him.
his brother told me that last week he tried to take an overdose he didnt tell me that himself, but last night on the phone was making lots of comments when he was drunk about suicide, as he has done in the past. i just dont know what id do if anything did happen to him, hes such a good friend to me as well as anything else. i feel like if i could give him somewhere to stay i could help him out alot...but right now im at uni in my last year living in a student house and i really cant be a full time babysitter. hopefully ill be seeing him tommorow but he said last night that if he didnt get in touch with me hed be dead, although he said that he really wants to see me. its not just the suicide im worried about, he magaes to get into fights with people that are capable of killing him. i just want to help him so much and im super worried today as he said he would ring 2 hours ago and hasnt yet. though his brother said he would let me know if anything did happen...i just dont know what to do. he knows i love him, but if he tried this suicide attempt last week then its not really making a difference as he knew then...he has court on wed and sometimes i just think maybe it would be good for him to get locked up for a bit...i dunno :/

[raineydaze]

nobody?

[Kait]

You cant save him. He has to save his self.
If you know this is what he is going to do, reach out to teens in crisis. Maybe there is a number in the phone book.

[ZephyrusX]

I misread quote, so what I originally said wasn't really applicable.

Originally Posted by raineydaze

he said last night that if he didnt get in touch with me hed be dead, although he said that he really wants to see me. its not just the suicide im worried about, he magaes to get into fights with people that are capable of killing him. i just want to help him so much and im super worried today as he said he would ring 2 hours ago and hasnt yet.

[ZephyrusX]

When talking to a suicidal person

Do:

Be yourself. Let the person know you care, that he/she is not alone. The right words are often unimportant. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it.

Listen. Let the suicidal person unload despair, ventilate anger. No matter how negative the conversation seems, the fact that it exists is a positive sign.

Be sympathetic, non-judgmental, patient, calm, accepting. Your friend or family member is doing the right thing by talking about his/her feelings.

Offer hope. Reassure the person that help is available and that the suicidal feelings are temporary. Let the person know that his or her life is important to you.

If the person says things like, “I’m so depressed, I can’t go on,” ask the question: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?” You are not putting ideas in their head, you are showing that you are concerned, that you take them seriously, and that it’s OK for them to share their pain with you.

But don’t:

Argue with the suicidal person. Avoid saying things like: "You have so much to live for," "Your suicide will hurt your family," or “Look on the bright side.”

Act shocked, lecture on the value of life, or say that suicide is wrong.

Promise confidentiality. Refuse to be sworn to secrecy. A life is at stake and you may need to speak to a mental health professional in order to keep the suicidal person safe. If you promise to keep your discussions secret, you may have to break your word.

Offer ways to fix their problems, or give advice, or make them feel like they have to justify their suicidal feelings. It is not about how bad the problem is, but how badly it’s hurting your friend or loved one.

Blame yourself. You can’t “fix” someone’s depression. Your loved one’s happiness, or lack thereof, is not your responsibility. (I added bold text)

That was taken from this site. There are also two other sections on help someone who is suicidal, which you may find helpful.

Suicide prevention tip #2: Respond quickly in a crisis

Suicide prevention tip #3: Offer help and support

Just do ctrl + F and copy and paste those subheadings into the search field in order to get to them quickly. They are some where in the middle of the page.

Suicide Prevention: Spotting the Signs and Helping a Suicidal Person

[Criseyde]

I think he needs professional help, and it sounds like you think so too, so that would be my first course of action: trying to convince him to get help. I don't know what country you're in/his insurance status/etc, though I'm aware those variables could make that hard.

Originally Posted by raineydaze

he said last night that if he didnt get in touch with me hed be dead, although he said that he really wants to see me.

If somebody told me that, I would call the police.

And another thought: I think it is really terrible to say something like that to the woman you love. Really, really terrible. I realize that people can't see past their own pain sometimes, but I would be going absolutely insane with worry/grief/etc. It's not fair to you to have to deal with that. If he's not interested in getting his act together, my advice to you is to reconsider this relationship.

[Bliss Sage]

I find these judgmental and accusatory attitudes towards suicidal people simply abhorrent. The guy wants to kill himself for pity's sake, have a heart!! How is he going to care about someone else when he wants to do the ultimate harm to himself?? That is understood to anyone who actually cares about someone who is suicidal.

If I could just make anyone standing in judgment of me feel what it feels like to be suicidal, desperate, depressed, devastatingly frightened and alone… If I could have traded my heart with them for a day to make them have an ounce of compassion for me, or to whack them off of their egotistical soap box, to stop calling me selfish and self-centered, to stop shaming me into discounting myself and my own heart yet again by telling me to think about how other people will feel if I kill myself – stop trying to steal from me my life-sustaining delusions…or, if nothing else, just to leave me alone with my fate…

FYI, if I had never told the guy I loved at that time that I was going to kill myself, I would be dead today.

I might add that when I was 22 and told my mother I was suicidal, she also accused me of trying to manipulate her. My response? Besides feeling even more guilty and bad about myself than I already did, I swore I would never tell anyone when I was suicidal again, and instead I would just kill myself, because the last thing I wanted to do was manipulate someone into caring about me. No one could accuse me of manipulation if I never told anyone.

It is specifically people who go around saying suicidals are selfish and manipulative who encourage the suicidal to hate himself even more and who beat him again over the head with the fact that he and his feelings are worthless and that everyone else's feelings are so much more important and he should be thinking only about other people - things he already knows on such a profound level that he wants to kill himself!

To the OP:
I'm sorry, I don't know how to help your boyfriend. I never did drugs or got into the kind of lifestyle he is in, but I sympathize with you. My suicide was such that I was able to come out of mine in the way I did, just with the delusion or thought that this guy I loved loved me and cared about me (and he did, but he was just as depressed and dysfunctional as I was, and without my strong sense of morality).

I don't know what issues your boyfriend's suicide deal with or what he thinks would help him to feel better. You might want to try to ask him. He is deep down in it though and it would be no short trip to come out of it. And I can't express how much will power and desire it would require on his part. Without that, there is not much of lasting or great impact that you can do. If he shows any hint of wanting to improve his life, support and encourage him, maybe help him find a way.

Edit: Apparently one of the people I was responding to in the thread has edited out the part I was responding to, so now my message isn't exactly applicable on a general scale to those posting in this thread. At any rate, the "suicidals are manipulative and selfish" attitude is rampant in these forums and in the world at large, so my message still applies on a broader scale.

Also, the quoted portion in ZephyrusX's 2nd post is good advice.

[Kait]

I know all about suicidal teenagers. He has to be responsible to say I am hurting, help me, and he should be in a hospital tonight...If you have someone telling you, you are selfish, and being manipulative? You should always know as a teenager there are crisis centers, and there are people that can help you 24/7. You don't need money...pick up the phone and call if you need help. My daughters "have been in the hospital for this" and they know, it's their responsiblity to call the crisis center and to reach out for help.
This is in the USA.

[ZephyrusX]

If you are referring to my self, yes, I misread the quote and realize that what I originally said probably wouldn't have made the slightest bit of sense to any one but my self. I apologize for the misunderstanding and inconvenience.

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Edit: Apparently one of the people I was responding to in the thread has edited out the part I was responding to, so now my message isn't exactly applicable on a general scale to those posting in this thread. At any rate, the "suicidals are manipulative and selfish" attitude is rampant in these forums and in the world at large, so my message still applies on a broader scale.

raineydaze: Let us know if your friend is alright.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by raineydaze

ok, i really dont know what to do about this. i was seeing somebody for a few months before, we're really in love. although he ended up getting back with his ex for complicated reasons, basically he has nowhere else to live, and i didnt see him for 6 weeks due to this. i have seen him once since then, and we really do love eachother. i cant be with him right now as i have nowhere to put him to live. i dont want this post to be based on our relationship though as i know people will have opinions on this.

this guy has had a REALLY tough upbringing, his dad is a very rich psychiatrist, his mother killed himself, and he was brought up by his grandparents, his grandad a priest who used to beat him when he was 5 calling him evil. he then got shipped off to boarding school, has been in prison for fighting 5 years ago, but recently has consitently been back in court.
now i REALLY love this guy, and i know he loves me. he says he never feels emotions, never feels sad, but i make him feel emotion, he says he never feels love but he loves me more than anything in the world, and i believe him.
i'm just getting so worried about him. right now he is living in a place with his girlfriend who is NUTS, she cheats on him constantly and just the other day smashed him over the head with a vodka bottle. his dad has disowned him and thrown him out and the only person in his family who supports him is his younger brother. he cant work despite being super smart cus of his criminal record, although recently started working again. he drinks pretty much constantly.
i wish i could give him a place to live as i feel i am one of the only people in his life that sees the good in him, he constantly says he is twisted and evil, although he never does anything malicious, he says i am the only person who has ever seen good in him.
his brother told me that last week he tried to take an overdose he didnt tell me that himself, but last night on the phone was making lots of comments when he was drunk about suicide, as he has done in the past. i just dont know what id do if anything did happen to him, hes such a good friend to me as well as anything else. i feel like if i could give him somewhere to stay i could help him out alot...but right now im at uni in my last year living in a student house and i really cant be a full time babysitter. hopefully ill be seeing him tommorow but he said last night that if he didnt get in touch with me hed be dead, although he said that he really wants to see me. its not just the suicide im worried about, he magaes to get into fights with people that are capable of killing him. i just want to help him so much and im super worried today as he said he would ring 2 hours ago and hasnt yet. though his brother said he would let me know if anything did happen...i just dont know what to do. he knows i love him, but if he tried this suicide attempt last week then its not really making a difference as he knew then...he has court on wed and sometimes i just think maybe it would be good for him to get locked up for a bit...i dunno :/

What's the price you pay for feeling needed?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I find these judgmental and accusatory attitudes towards suicidal people simply abhorrent. The guy wants to kill himself for pity's sake, have a heart!! How is he going to care about someone else when he wants to do the ultimate harm to himself?? That is understood to anyone who actually cares about someone who is suicidal.

At least this thread has inspired me to post this piece I wrote on the value of self-delusion. And this is for everyone who calls suicidals selfish and manipulative:

The Value of Delusion | Celestial Aspirations


FYI, if I had never told the guy I loved at that time that I was going to kill myself, I would be dead today.

I might add that when I was 22 and told my mother I was suicidal, she also accused me of trying to manipulate her. My response? Besides feeling even more guilty and bad about myself than I already did, I swore I would never tell anyone when I was suicidal again, and instead I would just kill myself, because the last thing I wanted to do was manipulate someone into caring about me. No one could accuse me of manipulation if I never told anyone.

It is specifically people who go around saying suicidals are selfish and manipulative who encourage the suicidal to hate himself even more and who beat him again over the head with the fact that he and his feelings are worthless and that everyone else's feelings are so much more important and he should be thinking only about other people - things he already knows on such a profound level that he wants to kill himself!

Bliss Sage, I'm sure you're taking issue with my post as well, so let me just state for the record that I don't think suicidal people are selfish and manipulative. Manipulation is when somebody tries to coerce somebody else into doing something, and generally, expressing a desire to kill oneself isn't that (unless it's something along the lines of "I'll kill myself if you don't do ________").

I feel a lot of empathy for people who are suicidal, actually (and nearly all people, when it comes to that). I want to help. But two important things I've learned in life are that I can't help anybody who doesn't want to be helped, and that people who truly want to kill themselves usually do.

That's why my first advice to the OP was to try and get this guy to seek help from a professional. But if he refuses, if he won't do anything, whatever the reason -- for her sake, I think she should break it off. Because I know what it's like to believe(/fear) that somebody close to you is going to kill themselves. I've been in that situation with close friends and with others, too. Nothing else makes me feel that scared, helpless, and crazy. I couldn't go through it again and again, and I'm not a good lover/partner when I feel that way. I also know a couple people who married or otherwise partnered people who went on to kill themselves -- the grief, regret, and self-blame is terrible.

[DANDUNGAN]

I doubt what I'm going to say is true for all people, but what I've experienced is a suicidal person who has made the decision seems to finally be happy and at peace. If someone has been expressing suicidal ideation, and then one day they seem peaceful, this is the most dangerous time. Don't leave them alone; get them to a suicide hotline or other professional.

If a human is expressing suicidal thoughts, they are more than likely calling out for help. This is a time to listen to them and withhold judgement and advice.

One time a friend of mine expressed to me despondently, that he wanted to kill himself. I asked him how he planned on doing it.

He said, "Put my head in the oven and turn on the gas." So, I took him over to the stove. Without prodding, he got down on his knees and put his head in the oven. I turned on the gas.

He started to stand up, but I held him down. He started fighting me--struggling to get out of the oven.

I said, "Why are you fighting so hard if you want to die?"

He realized he wanted to live, and started getting counseling in the next few days.

Now--years later--he has two kids and he's happy with his life.

[ZephyrusX]

I agree with this. My opinion is coming from the other side though. For some people, having someone show love can make a world of difference. I've met suicidal people who say they were 'saved' by a special some body. And then there are people who are so withdrawn into their own depression that they are like black holes. Regardless of whatever love you show them, they keep making self-destructive decisions, which I'm sure really hurts people who genuinely love them (incidentally, I think 'You are my Sun Shine' has the most depressingly lyric ever - 'You'll never know how much I love you' ).

I originally had said something about setting healthy boundaries despite the emotional state of the person you love. I still stand by that claim. You can still love a person unconditionally without letting them unwittingly drag you down in any way. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is walk away.

But yah, of course, that is a decision the OP has to make.

Originally Posted by Criseyde

That's why my first advice to the OP was to try and get this guy to seek help from a professional. But if he refuses, if he won't do anything, whatever the reason -- for her sake, I think she should break it off. Because I know what it's like to believe(/fear) that somebody close to you is going to kill themselves. I've been in that situation with close friends and with others, too. Nothing else makes me feel that scared, helpless, and crazy. I couldn't go through it again and again, and I'm not a good lover/partner when I feel that way. I also know a couple people who married or otherwise partnered people who went on to kill themselves -- the grief, regret, and self-blame is terrible.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by DANDUNGAN

I doubt what I'm going to say is true for all people, but what I've experienced is a suicidal person who has made the decision seems to finally be happy and at peace. If someone has been expressing suicidal ideation, and then one day they seem peaceful, this is the most dangerous time. Don't leave them alone; get them to a suicide hotline or other professional.

If a human is expressing suicidal thoughts, they are more than likely calling out for help. This is a time to listen to them and withhold judgement and advice.

One time a friend of mine expressed to me despondently, that he wanted to kill himself. I asked him how he planned on doing it.

He said, "Put my head in the oven and turn on the gas." So, I took him over to the stove. Without prodding, he got down on his knees and put his head in the oven. I turned on the gas.

He started to stand up, but I held him down. He started fighting me--struggling to get out of the oven.

I said, "Why are you fighting so hard if you want to die?"

He realized he wanted to live, and started getting counseling in the next few days.

Now--years later--he has two kids and he's happy with his life.

The point being that most suicidal people don't really want to die, they just can't live with the pain they are in any longer...and death seems like the most obvious and logical answer.

People who really do want to die won't tell anyone...they'll just do it.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

That's why my first advice to the OP was to try and get this guy to seek help from a professional. But if he refuses, if he won't do anything, whatever the reason -- for her sake, I think she should break it off. Because I know what it's like to believe(/fear) that somebody close to you is going to kill themselves. I've been in that situation with close friends and with others, too. Nothing else makes me feel that scared, helpless, and crazy. I couldn't go through it again and again, and I'm not a good lover/partner when I feel that way. I also know a couple people who married or otherwise partnered people who went on to kill themselves -- the grief, regret, and self-blame is terrible.

Yes. Though I was also involved with someone who was...not as suicidal as I was, but we were at least equally "coo-coo" and suffering similarly in life and I think someone who is involved with someone with such deep problems has a fair bit of stuff to work out and heal from themselves, and we can't speed up that process. In a way, loving someone who is suicidal is indicative of sizeably difficult emotional problems as well that are just more difficult to see, because they may pale in comparison to those of the suicidal person. In both cases, it is a process that we can't really affect.

Or maybe I'm just projecting my own experience on to others. In my case, it was almost eerie - I and the guy were like mirror reflections of one another.

Anyway, sorry my original response was so emotional. I guess I am still not feeling so great about how my immediate family reacted to my suicidal stuff. And each one in their turn responded with the "selfish, manipulative" judgments.

Anyway, that's that.

I used to think that "suicidism" was like alcoholism, in that it was "one day at a time," once an "addict" always an addict, because it seemed like no matter how much I progressed or where I'd get in life, I could always fall back on suicide.

However, since I found an effective way of healing, and since I discovered the LoA and that there is more in my life I can have control over than how and when I die, I have been gradually changing my mind about that. Well, I guess I have effectively changed my mind. It's not like "one day at a time" anymore. Like I'm reading the Power of Positive Thinking as we speak

[Kait]

Originally Posted by raineydaze

this guy has had a REALLY tough upbringing, his dad is a very rich psychiatrist, his mother killed himself, and he was brought up by his grandparents, his grandad a priest who used to beat him when he was 5 calling him evil. he then got shipped off to boarding school, has been in prison for fighting 5 years ago, but recently has consitently been back in court.

This is what disturbs me about this young man. Is that his father is a psychiatrist.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Kait

This is what disturbs me about this young man. Is that his father is a psychiatrist.

My father was a psychologist. He had a ph.D. Apparently it doesn't mean anything - actually, it did. It meant he was well-equipped to emotionally abuse and manipulate his children and everyone else. And that's what he did.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

My father was a psychologist. He had a ph.D. Apparently it doesn't mean anything - actually, it did. It meant he was well-equipped to emotionally abuse and manipulate his children and everyone else. And that's what he did.

Wow. Sorry to hear that... that's just really sad that a professional (is giving advice to others) but manipulated his children OR can't see that he/she needs help...In my opinion that's SICK.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Anyway, sorry my original response was so emotional. I guess I am still not feeling so great about how my immediate family reacted to my suicidal stuff. And each one in their turn responded with the "selfish, manipulative" judgments.

No problem. I'm sorry your family was like that. But I'm glad that you've been able to change it! Congrats; that's really a big accomplishment.