If You Know It's Hurting Them Is It Abuse?

[Rezzy7]

So you decided you're tired of one of your friends and don't want to deal with her or him anymore, so you just stop returning calls, stop answering email. You know this will upset her or him, maybe she told you it hurts when you just ignore her. But you're stubborn. You just want what you want, the other person be damned.

Is this acceptable? At what point is it considered abuse?

I mean, I guess no one is obligated to stay friends with anyone, even if that friend is still being a good friend. What do you guys think?

[awdye]

Abuse? I think of abuse as physical or emotional attacks towards someone.

If you are wanting to exit the relationship, telling someone it's not working out for you anymore and leaving seems like the way to do it. It would be nice to have some discussion to see if a middle ground can be reached.

I think it's nice to have some sort of "closure", but some people use that as an excuse to keep a connection alive. Their "why's" are more a challenge to your viewpoint than an actual interest in understanding you and respecting your wish to live differently.

I was recently in a relationship with someone who viewed withdrawal as a form of abuse. She seemed to think it was my job to listen to her yell and cuss at me if I hurt her feelings. After all, she considered it my fault that she felt the way she did. To her, it felt like abandonment when I withdrew.

"If you know it's hurting them." At some point, a person has to take responsibility for their feelings. What is the meaning they assign to something they feel pain about? The other person needs to stop trying to assume the responsibility. If either changes, growth can take place.

Whatever it is that bothers you about your friend can also be a prompt for growth on your part.

[frosting]

Simply no. I think it may be unwise on the part of the person to end being friends with someone who genuinely is a good one but even some friendships have an expiration date.

Dealing with loss in general relationships is apart of life some are not as good at as others. So I see it as more of a life skill then abuse. Having your ability to cope tested and grown in the process when it hurts can actually be a bonus for some as an individual and make a person stronger.

Well Rezzy, I hope your question is hypothetical for it's never fun to lose a friend.

[ChristsLight]

My question would be, why are you creating this type of situation in your life?

[ssandra]

I don't think it is abuse.

Although it might give you some more peace of mind if you just let them know via a simple message that you prefer not to be in contact with them anymore. No need for further explanations if you don't want to.

That way you give them the option of stop putting energy into their relationship with you as well.

[Agota]

I think that if someone is a close friend of yours, ending a friendship without explaining other person what's happening is a very cowardly behavior. You have to at least let them know that you're not interested in being friends with them anymore. Then you can cut the connection.

No, it isn't abuse to end relationships even if it hurts other people, because you have a right to choose who you spend your time with.

I also agree that people have to learn to take responsibility for their feelings at some point and that walking on eggshells around them because you don't want to hurt their feelings only pushes them more and more into victim's mentality.

[interchangeable]

"If you know it's hurting them, is it abuse?"

No. Our wants/needs clash all the time. It's part of human interaction and human relationships. If it were abuse, the ending of almost every relationship would be abusive.

Person A no longer feels the same about their relationship with person B and ends it. Person B still wants a relsationship with person A and therefore, is hurt by the ending. Does that mean A is obligated to stay with B so B doesn't feel hurt? Wouldn't A then feel the hurt/pain of being in a relationship he/she doesn't want? A can't control B's hurt level. That's on B.

Also, *good friend* is subjective. Maybe B thinks she's being a good friend but A doesn't see it that way. Even if A does think B is a good friend, if A wants to end a friendship or relationship with someone, that's her prerogative. No one is entitled to a relationship with someone. Freindship relationships are completely voluntary. To suggest otherwise would be abusive. To insist or demand that someone have a friendship or relationship with someone else is contolling and, I would say, abusive.

[Rezzy7]

Thanks for the replies. Keep in mind I'm not necessarily only referring to the ending of a relationship. Although, when this happens it will most likely lead to the end. In other words, the person being rejected may not have had any time to even consider their friend was unhappy.

Originally Posted by awdye

Abuse? I think of abuse as physical or emotional attacks towards someone.

Sure. So are there also passive types of abuse? I guess neglect could be considered in this way, though that's out of the range of what I described above.

It would be nice to have some discussion to see if a middle ground can be reached.

So it would be nice, but your saying it's not really crucial?

If the rejected friend has expressed a sensitivity to being ignored, and the other person continues acting like she doesn't exist, won't honor her request to communicate, what does that count as (besides cowardice, which everyone seems to agree on).

I think it's nice to have some sort of "closure", but some people use that as an excuse to keep a connection alive.

Well I know I certainly might do this, myself. Er, at least, to the extent I think there's mutual value to keep it alive. Notice the word mutual...

Their "why's" are more a challenge to your viewpoint than an actual interest in understanding you and respecting your wish to live differently.

...And yet I must add that when I want to know why, I truly am interested in reaching mutual understanding, not the pseudo thing you've described.

I was recently in a relationship with someone who viewed withdrawal as a form of abuse. She seemed to think it was my job to listen to her yell and cuss at me if I hurt her feelings. After all, she considered it my fault that she felt the way she did. To her, it felt like abandonment when I withdrew.

Yeah, in that case I think you'd be providing yourself as a sort of, I don't know, human dart board for that person's yelling attack. That gives you plenty of reason to avoid that person. In fact, in this case YOU are the one avoiding abuse, right?

At some point, a person has to take responsibility for their feelings.

Yeah, we hear this so often here it's a bit of a cliche IMO.

What is the meaning they assign to something they feel pain about?

Sound like you're saying the person feeling the pain may just be wrongfully assigning (painful) meaning to something that's really "no big deal"?

Whatever it is that bothers you about your friend can also be a prompt for growth on your part.

I agree.

Originally Posted by frosting

but even some friendships have an expiration date.

I've never reached an expiration date with any good friend, though. For me, only applies to bad friends, or good turned evil.

Having your ability to cope tested and grown in the process when it hurts can actually be a bonus for some as an individual and make a person stronger.

I think this is true for some. For me in situations I've been in I do not feel I became any stronger.

Well Rezzy, I hope your question is hypothetical for it's never fun to lose a friend.

Thanks. Yeah, I've expanded the scenario into the real of hypothetical from an amalgamation of experiences.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

My question would be, why are you creating this type of situation in your life?

I'd sure love to have that answer, too.

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by Agota

No, it isn't abuse to end relationships even if it hurts other people, because you have a right to choose who you spend your time with.

Well in this case, the right to choose who you avoid spending your time with, right?

But I'm not talking about just ending a relationship. Suppose both have actually agreed to stay friends. The person A (doing the ignoring) insists person B is being disrespectful and "has expectations" if B asks for a reply to email or a return phone call. Person B considers it disrespectful for person A (or anyone, for that matter) to simply disregard messages. Well, maybe in this situation person A was just lying about wanting to stay friends.

I also agree that people have to learn to take responsibility for their feelings at some point and that walking on eggshells around them because you don't want to hurt their feelings only pushes them more and more into victim's mentality.

So, the person who's causing the pain bears zero responsibility? Is that what you're saying?

Originally Posted by interchangeable

No. Our wants/needs clash all the time. It's part of human interaction and human relationships. If it were abuse, the ending of almost every relationship would be abusive.

Well of course, and I agree with that part. However, you're addressing the ending more so than what I'm referring to, which is the ignoring part, prior to or maybe "during" the ending.

Person B still wants a relsationship with person A and therefore, is hurt by the ending. Does that mean A is obligated to stay with B so B doesn't feel hurt?

No, person B is just trying to communicate and sort things out with A, so that things can end in an amicable way, but A is having none of it, let's say. A just want's what A wants, and that's that.

Also, *good friend* is subjective. Maybe B thinks she's being a good friend but A doesn't see it that way. Even if A does think B is a good friend, if A wants to end a friendship or relationship with someone, that's her prerogative. No one is entitled to a relationship with someone.

Well, of course! No one's obligated not to be a jerk, either, A is perfectly free to do as A pleases.

So the way you're putting it, it sounds as though there's a way in which B's behavior can be taken as abusive, but never A's?

I think a theme I'm reading here, and trying to wrap my head around is, how Person A is completely off the hook for any wrongdoing. Is that correct?

[Andrew Gubb]

It's fine. You are not obliged to returns anyone's calls. You're not insulting them or anything, and god damn it shouldn't be too hard to take the hint.

[Perry M]

First. No that's not abuse, but multiple choice questions are

If you feel made a clean break then it is possible that:

A. Your ex-friend doesn't care or hardly notices that you are gone and whatever, life goes on.
B. Your ex-friend throws a wild temper tantrum and shouts profanities into the air about your terrible betrayal but fortunately you are not there to hear them so who cares?
C. Your ex-friend feels rejected but eventually decides you are not worth it and they move on.

On the other hand if you tell the other person how you feel and why:

A. Your friend might agree with your decision and wish you farewell. whatever life goes on
B. Your friend throws a wild temper tantrum and shout profanities at you and tell you to go away.
C. Your friend begs for another chance and promise to become your faithful servant and do whatever you ask.
D. Your friend and you talk and agree that the friendship is worth saving and everyone wins.

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

It's fine. You are not obliged to returns anyone's calls. You're not insulting them or anything, and god damn it shouldn't be too hard to take the hint.

lol.

Originally Posted by Perry M

First. No that's not abuse, but multiple choice questions are

If you feel made a clean break then it is possible that:

A. Your ex-friend doesn't care or hardly notices that you are gone and whatever, life goes on.
B. Your ex-friend throws a wild temper tantrum and shouts profanities into the air about your terrible betrayal but fortunately you are not there to hear them so who cares?
C. Your ex-friend feels rejected but eventually decides you are not worth it and they move on.

On the other hand if you tell the other person how you feel and why:

A. Your friend might agree with your decision and wish you farewell. whatever life goes on
B. Your friend throws a wild temper tantrum and shout profanities at you and tell you to go away.
C. Your friend begs for another chance and promise to become your faithful servant and do whatever you ask.
D. Your friend and you talk and agree that the friendship is worth saving and everyone wins.

Does C happen to you very often? Because I like C...don't know that I've ever had a faithful servant but it could be an interesting, um... arrangement. If I can keep from being abusive. And D is also nice.

[JDuff]

Ideally, I would explain to them what I am doing and the reasons why. I would do this from a position of equals and as rational agents. If I just ignore them, it is like I have discarded a person once they were no longer useful to me, without an explanation or a seemingly logical reason for doing so. I would understand if that was hurtful, especially if it was a close relationship. If they were just an acquaintance either side probably wouldn't be too bothered.

Of course, this is not how things work in practice very often! It could make things worse. Use your judgement, and if you do speak to them, phrase it nicely!

[OptimistPrime]

Speaking for myself, I would be really annoyed if any of my friends just suddenly decided to never contact me or reply to my communications ever again. I would have no idea whether they were actually cutting me out of their life, or if they were just too busy to keep in touch. I'd be more inclined to call that "toxic" behavior than "abusive" behavior, though. I think it would actually be more abusive for them to string me along while secretly despising me and trashing me behind their back, for example.

On the other hand, if I already had a rocky relationship with someone (e.g. if we had had some sort of a fight or disagreement right before they suddenly cut off communication with me), I wouldn't see it as being such a dick move for them to up and disappear. I've certainly cut off communication with people after having fights or disagreements with them, myself, so it would be hypocritical of me to judge others for doing the same.

[Perry M]

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

lol.

Does C happen to you very often? Because I like C...don't know that I've ever had a faithful servant but it could be an interesting, um... arrangement. If I can keep from being abusive. And D is also nice.

C I wouldn't know for sure as I have never had a servant. I imagine it would get old after a while because it sounds to much like having a dependent to take care of. D on the other hand would work as long as both parties are willing to respect each others boundaries.

[Rezzy7]

So, would you do something like this to a "best friend" then? And this is assuming the two friends are not fighting.

Originally Posted by JDuff

If I just ignore them, it is like I have discarded a person once they were no longer useful to me, without an explanation or a seemingly logical reason for doing so.

Yes. I won't just "throw away" a friend. But apparently people do.

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

Speaking for myself, I would be really annoyed if any of my friends just suddenly decided to never contact me or reply to my communications ever again.

Of course. And even if they told you they're just busy, well, everybody's busy! Yet they find time for other people. So that still wouldn't be a very satisfying excuse.

Personally, I don't think I could just "discard" someone in the kind of example I'm describing (eg, best friends, not fighting, no angry language). Having been on the "losing" side, I know what I felt like, I can't in good conscience just brush someone off like that if they are my friend, esp. a best friend, without telling them what is up and why.

(e.g. if we had had some sort of a fight or disagreement right before they suddenly cut off communication with me), I wouldn't see it as being such a dick move for them to up and disappear. I've certainly cut off communication with people after having fights or disagreements with them, myself, so it would be hypocritical of me to judge others for doing the same.

In that kind of situation it makes sense, but if there's nothing negative going on between the two I don't know why someone would just cut the other person off arbitrarily.

[OptimistPrime]

By the way, Rezzy, I apologize for bringing this up publicly, but it's been a month and a half and you still haven't replied to my last PM. This thread is about me, isn't it?

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

By the way, Rezzy, I apologize for bringing this up publicly, but it's been a month and a half and you still haven't replied to my last PM. This thread is about me, isn't it?

Now that you mention it, I see somehow I missed that you'd asked a question.