Thinking Like Spaghetti.

[momo3bur]

Ok, so I've had this silly metaphor on my mind for about 4 years now. My husband and I went through marriage counseling through a program the state offers at that time and the counselor explained to me a metaphor she came up with for the difference between the way women and men generally think: Men think like boxes and women think like spaghetti.

I believe (at least what I understand based on how she explained it) her point with her little metaphorical pasta pun was to demonstrate that men tend to be more straightforward in their thinking and take things about people, especially what people say, for face value. It's either true or it's a lie. Anything in between like passive aggressive communication, subtle hints, assumptions based on "you should just KNOW that!", according to her, is generally not of interest to men or can just sort of slip past them. Or something like that.

As for women, the spaghetti thing was supposed to demonstrate the tendency to over analyze things. For example, when the husband comes home and is not very talkative, she might ask, "Are you ok?" So he says, in a dry, sometimes irritated manner (if he's been asked 5 times already), "I'm fine. Just tired." So then, according to this counselor, the woman will begin running possible underlying meanings to what he said through her head. "He's not tired, he's actually angry. Why would he be mad at me? How dare he be mad at me. He never wants to talk after work, he must not feel close enough to me to share his day." There are many more she listed, but I can't remember them all, although one somehow led to the woman thinking her husband was having an affair because he said he was tired.

Anyway, that little metaphor has been on my mind for all these years and tends to pop up here and there. I'm just curious what you guys think about it. I don't necessarily agree as I've seen spaghetti thinking in men while I tend to take what people say at face value. However, upon (over) analyzing this characteristic about myself, I do believe I have not always been that way and perhaps her little spaghetti talk might have helped me learn to stop wasting time on wondering what people REALLY meant when they said something.

So what do you guys think? Is this insulting to the sexes? I felt like it was more insulting to men by implying that they cannot think past what's in front of them, tbh. My husband didn't take offense, though. LOL.

I think maybe I'm spaghetti thinking this...

[ZephyrusX]

I don't think you can generalize styles of communication to either sex.

Coincidentally, the people I know who over analyze everything are men. And I think the taking things at face value thing happens when you fail to realize that other people may not actually interpret your words the way they were intended to be interpreted. It may mean different things depending on different people and on what level the words are being interpreted. I've seen plenty of men and women fail to make this realization (including my self at times!), which leads to conflicts arising from poor communication.

I love the thread title, btw.

[EmanQ]

Yeah.. What your counselor said was right.. Women are noodles and men are boxes and of course it can be the opposite.. I think it's just about understanding the person in front of you.. If you know their nature then you will know how they will understand things , if not then just try to.. It takes a lot to learn , but possible.. communication is a powerful tool.

You have me as a living example.. I'm a girl and I'm a complete box lol.. I had problems understanding my friends because of that.. They think in a way that seemed very complicated to me, but then i understood how they operate ( their minds ) :-p ..

[ssandra]

I agree there there are generally 2 opposite ways of thinking, but I think it is more like a line between those two, and someone can be anywhere on this line. From completely spaghetti thinking to completely box thinking, or anywhere in between.

I also don't think it is necessarily to do with being male or female. Although in our society we are more raised to appreciate logical thinking from men and emotional thinking from women, so that might have some influence on the way we think.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I don't think you can generalize styles of communication to either sex.

Coincidentally, the people I know who over analyze everything are men. And I think the taking things at face value thing happens when you fail to realize that other people may not actually interpret your words the way they were intended to be interpreted. It may mean different things depending on different people and on what level the words are being interpreted. I've seen plenty of men and women fail to make this realization (including my self at times!), which leads to conflicts arising from poor communication.

I love the thread title, btw.

I've noticed at least on an emotional level that women seem like they pick up more on body language, etc., and tend to use that moreso when communicating than men do and I wonder sometimes if that's where this "women are spaghetti" theory comes from.
When their husband says, "Oh no, I had to work late honey," but says it with his eyes darted to the side and his fingers twiddling, a woman might be a little more likely to pick up on those signals and decide he's lying if even he's not.

Of course, I've known men that do that too! So it's a hard call.

Sometimes I even wonder if it's because men in our society have been taught to be less emotional and therefore women in general tend to be more empathetic and pick up on subtle hints from that, then drive the issue.

Yeah, I'm not in total agreement with her metaphor (which turns out is not original...I found a book online called Men are Like Waffles, Women are Like Spaghetti, so I'm guessing this is where she got the idea from and the book was written by a man, so the illustration on the cover is a woman basically wagging her finger at the man while he stands with his hands behind his back as if he's in trouble ). I see what she's trying to do, which is help the husband and wife learn to communicate and understand how the other one thinks, but I feel like it's unfair to immediately place a person into a communication style "category" based wholy on their sex.

And thank you! I thought the spaghetti thing might bring some readers in.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by EmanQ

Yeah.. What your counselor said was right.. Women are noodles and men are boxes and of course it can be the opposite.. I think it's just about understanding the person in front of you.. If you know their nature then you will know how they will understand things , if not then just try to.. It takes a lot to learn , but possible.. communication is a powerful tool.

You have me as a living example.. I'm a girl and I'm a complete box lol.. I had problems understanding my friends because of that.. They think in a way that seemed very complicated to me, but then i understood how they operate ( their minds ) :-p ..

LOL! At the time she spouted off the metaphor, I wondered why she couldn't be nice enough to give the guys their own food to be like. LOL. Who wants to be a BOX? Now that I found the waffle thing, I'm so jealous. I love waffles.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I agree there there are generally 2 opposite ways of thinking, but I think it is more like a line between those two, and someone can be anywhere on this line. From completely spaghetti thinking to completely box thinking, or anywhere in between.

I also don't think it is necessarily to do with being male or female. Although in our society we are more raised to appreciate logical thinking from men and emotional thinking from women, so that might have some influence on the way we think.

Yes! That's a perfect way to describe it. It's like you could take one end of the noodle and cook it but leave the other end dry and straight. You're either on woobly end or the straight or somewhere in between.

I do agree that there seems to be a stereotype there, but I don't think it's necessarily steadfast. Like I said, I know one man in particular that's more concerned about what others are really thinking than most women I know. It's funny because he always has the gossip on the DL, so we get to hear it from this 6'4", 250 lb hairy brute of a man! LOL. Not stereotypical in anyway. His wife is the same way and sometimes I wonder how on earth they keep from going crazy. lol.

I admit that at times I will be suspicious that my husband isn't being completely forward about what he's saying, but I usually don't push it. I probably did more when we were younger, but honestly I don't really care enough to anymore! LOL. If he wants to talk, he'll talk, otherwise I don't feel like playing mother hen granny goose and prying into his head, which is rightfully his safe place.

It does bother me a lot that women are viewed as being these finger wagging, nagging, prying, gossiping, emotional firecrackers and even by this marriage counselor who was supposed to be there to help us. LOL. It didn't get me then, but from time to time when I meet a male spaghetti thinker, this pops up and I want to document it and mail it to her or something. LOL.

[ssandra]

I think once you know a couple a bit, or heard about their problems, you can make certain assumptions on THEIR communication.

I think, especially for a marriage counselor, it is very dangerous to make man/woman assumptions. If you, it shows that you are not really listening to your clients, instead just repeating stereotypes from a book....

If one of your clients happen to fall into a typical stereo type, still, you can make it about them personally, not about the entire gender.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I think once you know a couple a bit, or heard about their problems, you can make certain assumptions on THEIR communication.

I think, especially for a marriage counselor, it is very dangerous to make man/woman assumptions. If you, it shows that you are not really listening to your clients, instead just repeating stereotypes from a book....

If one of your clients happen to fall into a typical stereo type, still, you can make it about them personally, not about the entire gender.

Very much agreed. It's definitely a counselor's place to work with each person individually. She meant well and I can't blame her for that, but I do feel like that might be a less beneficial road to walk down her counseling career.

What's so funny to me is that we don't really have a problem with those things. We have an issue with communication but not because we don't understand each other...more or less because we just don't really talk. lol. I can't say honestly that we've ever had an issue where he tells me something and I dissect it into many different possible scenarios or meanings then hit him with them all.

Anyway, so I really don't know why she even brought that into the session. The only reason I could think was because communication was one of our weak points (and still is...it'll always be that way I'm sure) on our little test thingie we each took and she just assumed he was a box and I was a nagging spaghetti noodle. Maybe it's just something she discusses with every couple. I don't know.

[momo3bur]

I need to add really quick that this woman is very nice and we actually got a lot out of that counseling. This was really the only thing that I kind of threw out the window at the time. Otherwise, it was very helpful. Just to be fair that definitely needs to be said.

[OptimistPrime]

So wait, does this mean that Pastafarians are Goddess-worshipers?

[elucidate]

I notice more and more that a lot of women that I have known and had contact with, do seem to over-analyze everything, and take things to mean many things (usually with a negative slant to it) instead of just letting it mean what the person said...as they said it.

I've also met one or two women who don't do this, and I think I'm one of these...although I used to be very much an over-analyzer, and in some ways I still do this, but not as much when it comes to pre-judging what a person says.

I also am pretty careful not to take everything my female friends say about how they interpret what people say around them, on board too much. Even looks on faces that they analyze to mean something about them...usually negative...can be taken the wrong way.

One lady in particular I know tends to do this alot and I can't help but think she is just paranoid and the reality of what is going on is totally different to what she has made up in her head...but there's no convincing her of course. She used to be a total stoner though, so that probably didn't help things any.

I do think many men that I've known, tend to be simpler in this way...they don't really over-analyze things that are said or done...unless they are stoned. I've stumbled across one or two on this forum who aren't stoners though and who definitely DO read too much into things and over-analyze...so it's not so cut and dried on either side of the fence.

[Moriarty]

Assuming that she deals with personality types day-in, day-out that think spaghetti-like or otherwise, then she has a good argument. But she is a counsellor and they are trained for these things.

Personally, I dont agree with any of it, but my own experiences are different to each other's. I feel we can over-analyse anything to the point it becomes so bogged down that its way under the quick-sand and there's no retrieving it. So, my thought is to simply let sleeping dogs lie and change the way one see's things.

[awdye]

I've heard woman's thinking referred to as a ball of wire. Sounds like the same idea.

Mark Gungor - Men's Brain Women's Brain - YouTube

..and I do so like my nothing box.