Do you believe in Marriage?

[Kait]

I am an american woman that is (seperated) soon to be divorced. It was my first marriage and I was abandon and told I don't love you anymore after 16years been married for 18yrs. I'm starting to believe that marriage just doesn't work anymore. To me it's like a 15-18 year contract and then everyone just once to quit and find a new partner.

I think I feel safer when one doesn't push the word marriage now...I know I'm not divorced yet but I can't imaging getting married again (live with them another 18 years of my life) to learn that they too or I, want out. Once again here comes divorce number 2...yikes!!

I do like the security of marriage I do believe I want to get married again...but why do it, if you know your future already. I avoid weddings now will not go to them if my boyfriend and I are invited.

I am dating someone that is SO afraid of marriage and I believe I have placed my self in a very safe situation.

[MovingForward]

It sounds like your husband did not have a lot of respect for marriage, just abandoning you, I am sorry.
I believe in marriage for myself and my husband, but it is a lot of work and is constantly changing.
My husband and I did not want to get married and lived together in a commited relationship for almost 10 years before getting married.
We decided the benefits of marriage were worth it. Socially, I don't think we were taken seriously as an unmarried couple. Particularly professionally we felt judged in a negative way when we lived together, but were not married.
The ideal for me and my husband, in a marriage, was to unite to be a stronger force. Financially we have been able to achieve more married.
Socially we are viewed as more stable and responsible. Personally, we both camed from unstable places in our teens and young adult lives and marriage provides us with a lot of comfort.
I don't believe what works for me, will work for everyone, but I do believe marriage can be a powerful force when two people are joined in love and have a common goal.

[IvyW]

I believe in marriage.. however, if something were to happen to me & my husband i probably wouldn't get married again...

[ChristsLight]

I do believe in marriage. Granted, I've only been married for three months, but I have seen plenty of dysfunctional relationships, and a lot of working marriages. My mother was a single mom, separating from my father when I was two years old.

My wife was very afraid to get married, because she had very similar fears to yours, but from a different perspective. Her parents separated when she was 16, and it was pretty traumatic for her. She feared she would do the same thing her mother did, so it took a while for her to trust herself and the relationship enough.

But I do believe in it, and I think it's the type of relationship we are built for as humans. Our marriage helps me to thrive and be more of who I am as a person, and I think it does the same for her.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by MovingForward

It sounds like your husband did not have a lot of respect for marriage, just abandoning you, I am sorry.
I believe in marriage for myself and my husband, but it is a lot of work and is constantly changing.
My husband and I did not want to get married and lived together in a commited relationship for almost 10 years before getting married.
We decided the benefits of marriage were worth it. Socially, I don't think we were taken seriously as an unmarried couple. Particularly professionally we felt judged in a negative way when we lived together, but were not married.
The ideal for me and my husband, in a marriage, was to unite to be a stronger force. Financially we have been able to achieve more married.
Socially we are viewed as more stable and responsible. Personally, we both camed from unstable places in our teens and young adult lives and marriage provides us with a lot of comfort.
I don't believe what works for me, will work for everyone, but I do believe marriage can be a powerful force when two people are joined in love and have a common goal.

I don't see anything wrong with this...my mother did this (the second time) she waiting for 10 years before she married again. I honestly think its smart.
I honestly feel I'm with someone who is committed to me. I just don't feel we are in a good place even after I divorce. I feel he also has to trust again...He was married for 15yrs but his wife cheated and he came home and seen the action with his on eyes. My husband just left because of selfish reasons (his life expectancy) and I can't be with that anymore ecspecially if I have done the sickness and in health part STAND BY YOUR MAN...I just get the feeling its: getting a licenses or renewing a contract for another two years...lol. Its not a Life time warranty

[Criseyde]

Not really.

Monogamous love marriage is a relatively recent thing and it's definitely a product of our society.

Marriage started out as a means of trading in women (and cattle ). In many societies, it's not been monogamous. The most common arrangement is polygyny, which is a man having many wives, although there have been a few polyandrous societies. And in polygynous societies, how many wives you have is a function of your wealth and status. As you can imagine, some men don't get wives at all -- the poor, low-status ones.

On top of that, the vision of marriage as a covenant between man, woman, and God is very very very common in the Western world, but it's totally a product of Christianity, which I've never been a part of. In my birth religion (I guess -- I'm not a Hindu Brahmin due to the caste rules, although my mother's family is), marriage is a contract binding two souls together for seven (or is it ten...) lifetimes, wherein the wife is completely subordinate to the husband. There's traditionally also a dowry involved, which in my opinion is even more misogynistic than a bride price, because the woman's family is basically paying the man's family to take the woman...

I don't want to be owned, and even though you could make the case that marriage isn't about ownership today, I don't even want to be part of a tradition that has generally been about women-as-property.

Then there's the whole consumeristic aspect. As if all that isn't enough, you're also expected to wear an engagement ring (but only the woman!) to show you're "taken." And most people don't know this, but the diamond engagement ring "tradition" was completely cooked up by jewelry companies in the early 20th century. Never mind that most of the diamonds are African blood diamonds; to wear one would probably give me nightmares. And then there's the wedding, and the wedding rings (more blood diamonds), and anniversaries... yes, I realize that you don't HAVE TO do these things, but this is the cultural framework.

I mean, what is the point.

And now that I'm done being Scrooge, I will admit that there's a tiny part of me that would like to wear a big poofy dress and pledge my undying love for somebody. I'll just have to do that without getting married. That would be fun. Maybe we could even do it once a year. And I could make a new dress every year! Wow, I just solved my "I like too many different dress styles" dilemma. I amaze myself sometimes.

[inconditus]

Eh. That's a hard question for me.

Am I married? Yes
Would I suggest it for other people? No.

The reason being is because unless a person can know without a shadow of a doubt that the other person is their twin flame/soul mate etc. I don't see the point. We change daily and if you are married to a person because you love how they are "right now," chances are they are going to change. Love has to be something outside of your control and doesn't have any reasons why.

That is, unless you are getting married for healthcare, residency benefits, etc. any reason other than emotional. Then go ahead

In truth, legal marriage is just a piece of paper anyways. It's all what you make of it.

[ChristsLight]

Criseyde, I agree with you. The whole thing drove me crazy wen Christine and I were getting married. I am not surprised that the diamond thing is just a ploy, and is what I've thought all along.

My mother planned the wedding, and my complaints of it being too over the top were not heeded in the least. Of course we had to go all out.

I must say though that having a day all about ourselves was nice, though. The reception was great, and my favorite part of it was seeing so many people I've not seen for years.

But I think the wedding industry just exploits the people who are getting married, and now no one questions it.

Our wedding was only about $4,000 though, so it was much cheaper than most.

My belief about marriage is that we are both equal, and are completely free individuals, free to make our own decisions and live our lives how we desire. The primary function of the marriage is to have a home base of unconditional love and support as we each live out our purposes.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

My belief about marriage is that we are both equal, and are completely free individuals, free to make our own decisions and live our lives how we desire. The primary function of the marriage is to have a home base of unconditional love and support as we each live out our purposes.

I like this view. I would want that for myself too. I guess the difference is that I wouldn't want to call it a "marriage."

[ssandra]

I am married and I kind of like being married. I think I probably would call us married even if we didn't have the piece of paper to prove it.

People do take you more seriously when you are introduced (here in Mexico) as "my wife" instead of "my girlfriend".

marriage just like any long term relationship, requires some effort and energy to make it work.
People who start a relationship and just let things go, let resentment build up, let expectations not be met on a consistent basis, don't communicate... are destined to fail at making it work.

Talk, talk, and talk some more. And then put into action what you talked about.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Not really.

Monogamous love marriage is a relatively recent thing and it's definitely a product of our society.

Marriage started out as a means of trading in women (and cattle ). In many societies, it's not been monogamous. The most common arrangement is polygyny, which is a man having many wives, although there have been a few polyandrous societies. And in polygynous societies, how many wives you have is a function of your wealth and status. As you can imagine, some men don't get wives at all -- the poor, low-status ones.

On top of that, the vision of marriage as a covenant between man, woman, and God is very very very common in the Western world, but it's totally a product of Christianity, which I've never been a part of. In my birth religion (I guess -- I'm not a Hindu Brahmin due to the caste rules, although my mother's family is), marriage is a contract binding two souls together for seven (or is it ten...) lifetimes, wherein the wife is completely subordinate to the husband. There's traditionally also a dowry involved, which in my opinion is even more misogynistic than a bride price, because the woman's family is basically paying the man's family to take the woman...

I don't want to be owned, and even though you could make the case that marriage isn't about ownership today, I don't even want to be part of a tradition that has generally been about women-as-property.

Then there's the whole consumeristic aspect. As if all that isn't enough, you're also expected to wear an engagement ring (but only the woman!) to show you're "taken." And most people don't know this, but the diamond engagement ring "tradition" was completely cooked up by jewelry companies in the early 20th century. Never mind that most of the diamonds are African blood diamonds; to wear one would probably give me nightmares. And then there's the wedding, and the wedding rings (more blood diamonds), and anniversaries... yes, I realize that you don't HAVE TO do these things, but this is the cultural framework.

I mean, what is the point.

And now that I'm done being Scrooge, I will admit that there's a tiny part of me that would like to wear a big poofy dress and pledge my undying love for somebody. I'll just have to do that without getting married. That would be fun. Maybe we could even do it once a year. And I could make a new dress every year! Wow, I just solved my "I like too many different dress styles" dilemma. I amaze myself sometimes.

Well I didn't have the WEDDING when I got married...and I did go get a WHITE PARTY dress and got married at the courthouse...Did get the bloody white diamond but it don't mean athang if I'm the only one wearing it...I chose to take it off...I do believe I do want to do it different If I do it again...

and I don't think I want to say its a marriage either.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I am married and I kind of like being married. I think I probably would call us married even if we didn't have the piece of paper to prove it.

People do take you more seriously when you are introduced (here in Mexico) as "my wife" instead of "my girlfriend".

marriage just like any long term relationship, requires some effort and energy to make it work.
People who start a relationship and just let things go, let resentment build up, let expectations not be met on a consistent basis, don't communicate... are destined to fail at making it work.

Talk, talk, and talk some more. And then put into action what you talked about.

I believe I talked for NINE months and was stonewall'd. If it's onesided there's NOT one thing you can do but expect THAT itS over. I do believe my seperation wasn't even about US or about me... only what he wanted.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Kait

I believe I talked for NINE months and was stonewall'd. If it's onesided there's NOT one thing you can do but expect THAT itS over. I do believe my seperation wasn't even about US or about me... only what he wanted.

Although personally I believe that there is a lot you can do one sided to improve a relationship, if one person already checked out emotionally (which it sounds like your ex did) there is indeed nothing to do anymore...

I didn't mean my comment to be on your situation, but more in general and something to keep in mind for the next time (long term relationship or marriage).

Don't just talk for 9 months, but talk for the entire relationship. Even little things that bother you, talk about them before they become big things.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Although personally I believe that there is a lot you can do one sided to improve a relationship, if one person already checked out emotionally (which it sounds like your ex did) there is indeed nothing to do anymore...

I didn't mean my comment to be on your situation, but more in general and something to keep in mind for the next time (long term relationship or marriage).

Don't just talk for 9 months, but talk for the entire relationship. Even little things that bother you, talk about them before they become big things.

Its ok I didn't feel it did just thought I needed to explain. I think we had a good marriage NOT perfect but good. I think this is a case where he changed his values or maybe never had them.

I just want a person to know THAT SICKNESS can cause people to change. He may love me today but it was he that couldnt handle the responsiblity. It was way to much. You are right as you stated in you last comment...Relationship take hard work and I believe great deal of sacrifice.

[ssandra]

I don't believe relationships require sacrifice. I do believe they require conscious choice, sometimes one thing over another...

[psionyx]

I have been married for 11 years, and am currently separated. As the one who initiated the separation, it may seem odd to say but I do still believe in marriage. However, there's quite a difference between saying "I believe in marriage" versus "I believe in my marriage".

It seems to me that marriage, at its core, is a relationship framework like any other - with its own set of established boundaries and expectations. However, like a lot of things, the ideas of traditional marriage have taken on a sort of mass market quality, with people consuming a societally driven promise and expectation with little regard for whether it's right for them, right for the relationship, or even whether an alternative framework (de facto relationship for example) might suit them better. It's like being led to think that "one size fits all" is the only option, without realizing how much more comfortable a custom outfit would feel.

Ssandra wisely used the words "conscious choice" just now, and to me it has become painfully obvious that there was not a lot of conscious anything happening in my marriage. And that was just as much, if not more, my doing as it was hers. Not to get off topic, but over the last year my eyes have really been opened. I feel now as though we were both sleepwalking through our relationship, with our eyes barely open, as we consistently avoided talking about important issues and allowing bad habits to insidiously creep in without our awareness. From what I've seen, this is a common pattern in long term relationships.

But back on topic, I still believe that marriage, or any committed relationship, can work out for as long as both partners want it to. There's no magic formula. But if you have frequent honest and heart felt communication, share common goals and interests, regularly engage in physical bonding, are willing to change the rules as you both change, and most importantly, both want to make it work, then I believe it can. That said, it's also true that nothing lasts forever, despite what Disney brainwashed our young minds into believing. Recognizing that is also part of being conscious.

I really like this article by the way. It really struck a chord with me:

When You Marry For A Reason Other Than Love

[OptimistPrime]

I'd be happy to get married, provided the "till death do you part" bit were removed from my wedding vows. I understand that Gov. Mark Sanford had the "forsaking all others" bit removed from his vows (true story; I'm not making a joke), so I'm under the impression that you can request such alterations?

Also, maybe a prenuptial agreement if I had some financial assets that I wanted to keep seperate from my partner (and assuming I lived someplace where prenuptial agreements didn't tend to get disregarded during divorce proceedings, as I understand is the case in certain jurisdictions). Right now I don't have much money or possessions, of course, so I'm speaking hypothetically.

[RonSouther]

The thread title contains the answer...."Do you BELIEVE in marriage?". Marriage is an idea, not a universal truth. The concept of marriage is mental logic....it's actually a religion that has its own commandments like any religion.

But what does a marriage consist of? It consists of just two people. The security in marriage is fiction. A marriage in only secure if between the two people lies a deep harmony that keeps them coming back time and time again to solve their issues. That deep harmony enables the relating to be a journey of love. Without that harmony, problems are "solved" with power struggles, not enlightenment.

Don't believe in marriage. Don't make the relationship about owning the other (which is the feeling of security). Don't think that vows and a marriage license can speak for the heart if the heart isn't there.

Where there's a true deep love, no vows are required to "secure" the relating. Where vows are needed means theres no love. Marriage is a belief system. Don't believe in it. It's just two people relating.

[cheesedip1]

Marriage is okay if it works for you, but for some, it could be more of a chain that binds you.

It's really just a contract (a piece of paper).



Man decided to make religion, not God.




Marriage is somewhat socially conditioned. If I was just living together with a woman and didn't get married, some people I know would probably flip!!

[cheesedip1]

[QUOTE=RonSouther;1014463]
Where there's a true deep love, no vows are required to "secure" the relating. Where vows are needed means theres no love. QUOTE]


Yeah, I never understood the "vows" part.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by psionyx

I have been married for 11 years, and am currently separated. As the one who initiated the separation, it may seem odd to say but I do still believe in marriage. However, there's quite a difference between saying "I believe in marriage" versus "I believe in my marriage".

It seems to me that marriage, at its core, is a relationship framework like any other - with its own set of established boundaries and expectations. However, like a lot of things, the ideas of traditional marriage have taken on a sort of mass market quality, with people consuming a societally driven promise and expectation with little regard for whether it's right for them, right for the relationship, or even whether an alternative framework (de facto relationship for example) might suit them better. It's like being led to think that "one size fits all" is the only option, without realizing how much more comfortable a custom outfit would feel.

Ssandra wisely used the words "conscious choice" just now, and to me it has become painfully obvious that there was not a lot of conscious anything happening in my marriage. And that was just as much, if not more, my doing as it was hers. Not to get off topic, but over the last year my eyes have really been opened. I feel now as though we were both sleepwalking through our relationship, with our eyes barely open, as we consistently avoided talking about important issues and allowing bad habits to insidiously creep in without our awareness. From what I've seen, this is a common pattern in long term relationships.

But back on topic, I still believe that marriage, or any committed relationship, can work out for as long as both partners want it to. There's no magic formula. But if you have frequent honest and heart felt communication, share common goals and interests, regularly engage in physical bonding, are willing to change the rules as you both change, and most importantly, both want to make it work, then I believe it can. That said, it's also true that nothing lasts forever, despite what Disney brainwashed our young minds into believing. Recognizing that is also part of being conscious.

I really like this article by the way. It really struck a chord with me:

When You Marry For A Reason Other Than Love

Sorry to hear about your seperation.

The reason I say "sacrifice" its when you take your vows and you say "in sickness and in health, til death do you part". Its a sacrifice when you take your "life" and you make a conscious choice to love them through it...or love them through ANYTHING.


I think the conscious choice today; can be, "I'll love you, BUT however long I want too" and "whenever I've had enough of you"...It's a ME world today
and people give up so quick. I don't think we try hard enough or make it work at a 100% both ways. It's I will give you 50% if you give your 50%... and it doesn't work like this....When a person gets sick they cant give a "percentage" of anything and you step up to the plate and give it all. That is sacrifice and love and a conscious choice.

I really like this saying...this is love and how love should work. But if you have frequent honest and heart felt communication, share common goals and interests, regularly engage in physical bonding, are willing to change the rules as you both change, and most importantly, both want to make it work, then I believe it can.


And I will have to read the acticle. I'll get back with you on that

[Kait]

and can I ADD... that when a person (man or woman) can NO longer have sex because they are sick...does this become a "concious choice" or is it a sacrifice because NOW the one thing you need "In your marriage U live without..... or if you are the other partner, U can't do it....it is NO longer in your marriage.

[Kait]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

The thread title contains the answer...."Do you BELIEVE in marriage?". Marriage is an idea, not a universal truth. The concept of marriage is mental logic....it's actually a religion that has its own commandments like any religion.

But what does a marriage consist of? It consists of just two people. The security in marriage is fiction. A marriage in only secure if between the two people lies a deep harmony that keeps them coming back time and time again to solve their issues. That deep harmony enables the relating to be a journey of love. Without that harmony, problems are "solved" with power struggles, not enlightenment.

Don't believe in marriage. Don't make the relationship about owning the other (which is the feeling of security). Don't think that vows and a marriage license can speak for the heart if the heart isn't there.

Where there's a true deep love, no vows are required to "secure" the relating. Where vows are needed means theres no love. Marriage is a belief system. Don't believe in it. It's just two people relating.

Wow this is what I needed to hear That was good. Thank you.

[ZephyrusX]

My Fem 101 professor encouraged our class to drop the institution of marriage and to creatively come up with our own rituals of professing our long term commitment and undying love. Pretty much for the reasons you outlined.

I have to say that the experience took me aback. I was entering the class thinking that it would take a marxist perspective like the rest of my social science professors. But no. We were a bunch of wide-eyed 20-something-year olds listening to a prof actively encouraging the abandonment of marriage.

She was an interesting professor!

Originally Posted by Criseyde

And now that I'm done being Scrooge, I will admit that there's a tiny part of me that would like to wear a big poofy dress and pledge my undying love for somebody. I'll just have to do that without getting married. That would be fun. Maybe we could even do it once a year. And I could make a new dress every year! Wow, I just solved my "I like too many different dress styles" dilemma. I amaze myself sometimes.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I like this view. I would want that for myself too. I guess the difference is that I wouldn't want to call it a "marriage."

Me too, I just don't see why people need to get married for that to happen?

If two people really love each other they can do all these things without actually getting married. Commitment doesn't entail a ceremony...though many people feel it is necessary to bind the agreement (I was gonna say 'contract' there for a minute)

[NoJobRob]

I believe marriage is good for people... ...who want to get married. LOL I'm a little apprehensive about getting married. I've seen more marriages fail than succeed, so the odds are against people staying married, at least as far as I can tell they are, I haven't looked up any statistics or anything. I'm all for finding someone awesome to be with, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to get married for the above reasons. Plus all the drama that ensues when couples divorce, the arguments, the lawyers, all the money that gets flushed down the toilet, the hard feelings, strained emotions, etc etc etc. It just isn't worth it to me. It's a risk I'm not willing to take. Plus my happiness isn't based on being in a relationship. A relationship can enhance my happiness, but it's not necessary to be happy or fulfilled. There's so much more in life...

[brendannz]

Yeah it's just a contract, but also a ceremony and status thing for society.. like in American Beauty -

"Our marriage was just for show, commercial for how ordinary we are, when in reality we're anything but" - Lester in American Beauty.

What about kids? Isn't it some kind of structure/ organisation for breeding kids into?

Or is that just because my parents married so it seems that way? *

*
I'm not saying that peoples parents need to be married, at all, but saying isn't that partly what marriage is designed for? Or not really?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by NoJobRob

I believe marriage is good for people... ...who want to get married. LOL I'm a little apprehensive about getting married. I've seen more marriages fail than succeed, so the odds are against people staying married, at least as far as I can tell they are, I haven't looked up any statistics or anything. I'm all for finding someone awesome to be with, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to get married for the above reasons. Plus all the drama that ensues when couples divorce, the arguments, the lawyers, all the money that gets flushed down the toilet, the hard feelings, strained emotions, etc etc etc. It just isn't worth it to me. It's a risk I'm not willing to take. Plus my happiness isn't based on being in a relationship. A relationship can enhance my happiness, but it's not necessary to be happy or fulfilled. There's so much more in life...

I've had the same feelings for years. I only know two couples who are still married and appear to be going strong, and everyone else it was just broken dreams and added onto the pile of statistics of divorce. I've even met people who go into marriage with the notion that if it doesn't work out well, they can just get a divorce. That's no way to enter into a marriage with that attitude...but it's really common, sadly.

So many people with this fatalistic notion of it, and not willing to work at it. It's just too easy these days for people to get out of the deal, and it's way too much trouble and heartache to bother with.

If I ever did get married it would not be a legal thing. I don't believe the rest of the world has anything to do with it, but I think weddings are for the friends and family more than anything...and the party, which is fine...I just don't see the need for all the legal bindings that can lead to so much crap if it does fall apart, and with the stats the way they are, I'm pretty neg about the whole thing, which isn't the best way to go into a marriage with an attitude of such cynicism...still, how can I not be with the way people treat marriage these days?

I'm not convinced that there are any men out there, even the most libertarian/liberal minded who don't have some part of them that wants to own me as property...on a subconscious level. I'm no one's property. I'm happy to be with someone as long as we both feel like we want to be together, but if that changes, then I don't see why there needs to be a whole lot of legal jargon that just makes everyone's life harder than it has to be.

I can just let them go, or be let go...hopefully with no hard feelings, but if that's not possible, than at least without a court proceeding.

[brendannz]

I also think there's a big bit of "it's what everyone else is doing, so I should be doing this too" element to marriage

[Kait]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I've had the same feelings for years. I only know two couples who are still married and appear to be going strong, and everyone else it was just broken dreams and added onto the pile of statistics of divorce. I've even met people who go into marriage with the notion that if it doesn't work out well, they can just get a divorce. That's no way to enter into a marriage with that attitude...but it's really common, sadly.

So many people with this fatalistic notion of it, and not willing to work at it. It's just too easy these days for people to get out of the deal, and it's way too much trouble and heartache to bother with.

If I ever did get married it would not be a legal thing. I don't believe the rest of the world has anything to do with it, but I think weddings are for the friends and family more than anything...and the party, which is fine...I just don't see the need for all the legal bindings that can lead to so much crap if it does fall apart, and with the stats the way they are, I'm pretty neg about the whole thing, which isn't the best way to go into a marriage with an attitude of such cynicism...still, how can I not be with the way people treat marriage these days?

I'm not convinced that there are any men out there, even the most libertarian/liberal minded who don't have some part of them that wants to own me as property...on a subconscious level. I'm no one's property. I'm happy to be with someone as long as we both feel like we want to be together, but if that changes, then I don't see why there needs to be a whole lot of legal jargon that just makes everyone's life harder than it has to be.

I can just let them go, or be let go...hopefully with no hard feelings, but if that's not possible, than at least without a court proceeding.

I think you just explain it better than I did...this is exactly how I feel too...and I think its why I run from weddings. Wedding are so beautifully planned but they have so much fakeness ...and I look at the bride and groom and say to myself, how long will this last? If you only knew you needed a "divorce lawyer" in 6yrs you wouldnt waste your time....and then what happens, they get that divorce, JUST TO GET married again in a year or two...okay and what's so different NOW...sadly,....nothing...JUST MORE baggage and drama.