What is the point

[BillyTheAdult]

... of ever even trying to start a relationship. It seems like every guy and hisbrother seems to hook up with literally every girl that exists. I don't do that . I'm a real man, and I' m looking for a real girl but it seems like I'm not permitted to have a real girl. It is not an exaggeration to say to say that most of the guys I know with girl friends , they are over 300 pounds. I am in school full time and in college. I work out at least three days a week if not more. I spend all my time working on personal development and being the best person I possibly can. I am working out 3-4 days a a week , I have a genius level IQ. WTF. I mean WTF I couldn't even get the lowest quality woman I know to date me is what it feels like b/c there is so much competition from guys who put them selves out there just because they exist , despite the fact that they have nothing to offer. It seems like b/c a bunch of extremely low quallity guys are willing to date her she would never give me even a half second second look. It seems like if I want to have even a half rate girlfrined I am supossed to have ninja level bf skills. W T F ? This is A.) something i have I have been working on for a long time, and B something I have been thinking about for a long time. I will be posting about it a lot from here on out till I have sufficient answers or until I feel better about it. I'm not kidding I have a lot to say about this subject . It really just feels like I have been into PD for years and ant woman can come along and do a half assed jo for a month or so and surpass my efforts b/c she has more sexual options than I can in a lifetime.

I am sorry this looks a like a victim venting post, but it seems very realistic to me. I have put it off for a while but it seems ti be true. In more ways than I can describe in a short post. It seems really true . I am a nice normal but not a ♥♥♥♥♥ guy. and it almost seems like I am not even allowed to have a fulfilling relationship. WHAT GIVES!?!?!?

[DerekB]

Well, based on your post you're very conceited. You seem to think you're better than everybody else. This is not an attractive quality to girls. Also, you appear to be delusional. I'm not trying to be rude, but people with genius IQs quite simply do not write posts with THAT many grammatical/spelling errors. For god sakes at one point you forget what you wrote in the last sentence and rewrite it slightly differently (the gym sentences), and that was AFTER an edit by you. If you stop trying to justify your own inadequacies by trying to convince yourself everybody is inferior to you, that will be a big step.

[strawzombie]

Just from reading this post and going off of nothing else, my first impression is that you are putting way too much pressure on the girl(s). You may be the perfect guy for her, but you are probably taking everything way too seriously.

Remember when you were young and there was that neighborhood kid who asks you to hang out at his house, and when you did, he had EVERYTHING all planned out and ready for you when you got there. It's kind of like that. That kid is a perfectly nice guy, and on one level you appreciate the effort, and he is probably a better influence than other guys you currently hang out with. But on the other hand, he's way too "try-hard", to the point that it makes you uncomfortable.

It's also like the job interview where the job seeker wants the job just a little too much. Also, to get a better feel of the girl's perspective, imagine if I wrote a couple paragraphs about how awesome my advice is, and how stupid other people's advice is. Would that make you want to listen to that advice more or less?

(Nice signature BTW. Jed McKenna was one of my favorite authors.)

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by DerekB

Well, based on your post you're very conceited. You seem to think you're better than everybody else. This is not an attractive quality to girls. Also, you appear to be delusional. I'm not trying to be rude, but people with genius IQs quite simply do not write posts with THAT many grammatical/spelling errors. For god sakes at one point you forget what you wrote in the last sentence and rewrite it slightly differently (the gym sentences), and that was AFTER an edit by you. If you stop trying to justify your own inadequacies by trying to convince yourself everybody is inferior to you, that will be a big step.

I am not a great typist, I don't deny it. But this is the exact kind of response I expect here. tbh. That is half the reason I made a post like this. It just feels like if I was a woman no one would give two shits what I typed like. The response would be about recognizing that other people suck and I'm supposed to acknowledge that and get over it. I would rather be honest and be wrong than to pretend and be PC like so many others.

[DerekB]

I have my own issues with girls, worse than yours by far in all likelihood. I'm not sure what your getting at with that reply. I'm trying to help you by giving honest advice and insight, I apologize if you're offended but I stand by what I wrote. Also, I couldn't care less if I tried whether you were a woman or a man. Why you find genitalia relevant to typing skill is a mystery to me. I'm not here to judge you. I gave you an honest opinion, that's it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

I am not a great typist, I don't deny it. But this is the exact kind of response I expect here. tbh. That is half the reason I made a post like this. It just feels like if I was a woman no one would give two shits what I typed like. The response would be about recognizing that other people suck and I'm supposed to acknowledge that and get over it. I would rather be honest and be wrong than to pretend and be PC like so many others.

I think a person can be genius level and still spell badly. Genius doesn't necessarily indicate educated...and to be honest, I think we are all geniuses in our own way...even really dumb people are smart in ways we aren't. Smart people can be really dumb in ways that dumb people aren't as well.

I've known a man like this. He was way ahead of his time in school, but his spelling and writing was quite poor. I don't think he could read either.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

AHHHHHHHHHRRRGGG

I wonder. I think strawzombie had some good points.

Girls around you must think you have very little value romantically. Perhaps they aren't looking for a tight body and a genius IQ. (Why would you think they are?)

Food for thought:
What's your personality like?
Do you feel emotionally complete on your own?
How outgoing are you?
How non-needy are you?
Do people want to be around you?
Do you have a sense of humor?
What's your attitude like?
Do you vibe well in conversation?

Are you socially awkward or weird?
Are you dirty or look unhygienic?
Do you take yourself too seriously?

EDIT: To make this more explicit, basically I'm convinced that it mostly comes down to social vibe and yours ain't so attractive for some reason.

[NoJobRob]

I've never met you so obviously I don't know how you act in person, but if you come across to people as desperate or needy, then they'll most likely be repelled by that. Try giving off a different vibe, and don't take things so seriously. If you truly are a great guy, then it is in fact, their loss. Work on living up to the great guy image and persona, and maybe aim higher. I don't know your situation, but if you're being shot down by the local bar hopper types, then maybe look elsewhere. Looking for love in a bar or club is like going grocery shopping in the sewer. You can do better. LOL Do you live in a small town? Maybe consider moving if you do. That tends to broaden people's horizons.

When I was younger I had similar problems. It's not that no girls liked me, I just happened to ask out the ones that didn't. LOL Anyway it got pretty frustrating so I said screw it. Then from out of nowhere my luck turned around. I think it was because I was indifferent, so I wasn't giving off a vibe like I was out to get laid. I was just out to hang out and have some drinks and chill. No big deal. It was more of a calm, cool, and collected vibe, not the typical college age vibe of trying to impress everyone. That can work sometimes, but more times than not it just makes the person who's trying to impress everyone look like a dork. Nowadays I seriously couldn't care less if I stayed single until I died. It's really not a big deal (or a small deal for that matter...) to me. And because of that, I am extremely picky. I don't care if she's a 10 (to put it in popular terms), but I am very selective in terms of character. To use a car analogy, there's no way I will settle for a used Volvo when I'm not in the market to buy a car anyway. That just wouldn't make any sense... LOL

Sorry for rambling, but maybe something I said will help. Hope you get out of your funk.

[codenamesmiley]

@Billy,

To me it appears that rather than doing everything right, you have actually done everything someone else taught you was the right thing to do or be for a woman. Who's perception of the perfect guy are you living up to? Not yours. And most likely not the perception of the right gal for you.

I suggest you ask your heart and listen quietly for what really truly matters.

It sounds as if you are everything one of your parents told you was the perfect man, and indeed not the perfect YOU, that you aspire to be.

It sounds as if self acceptance has lacked to a point you have lived to become something you are not and find yourself now frustrated with the outcome.

Get back to you and see who's in there. You'll love yourself for it.

p.s. Until you do, you are correct. A relationship is pointless.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

I am not a great typist, I don't deny it. But this is the exact kind of response I expect here. tbh. That is half the reason I made a post like this. It just feels like if I was a woman no one would give two shits what I typed like. The response would be about recognizing that other people suck and I'm supposed to acknowledge that and get over it. I would rather be honest and be wrong than to pretend and be PC like so many others.

I didn't like the reply that guy gave you, you don't seem conceited. Or at least not irrevocably so. I much prefer honest than PC, too.

In response to your OP I don't know how to advise you cause I don't know your situation.

For me I was lonely and romantically unsatisfied when I didn't know myself. Because I didn't know myself, I didn't know what people I wanted to be with, truly. I thought I knew. But I didn't know. So there was always an internal conflict between what I thought I needed and what I actually needed.

Funnily I also had the feeling that everyone sucked back then. Maybe the Universe conspired to prove me right, since that belief seemed so important to me. (To be more precise, I do think attitude and "vibe" really affect how people interact with you and even which people you meet).

If it's either of these things I guess you just have to go through a process like I did. Eventually the imbalances in your being just get corrected almost of their own accord, especially if you really want change to happen. They're volatile, they can't stay for too long without something happening.

Apart from that maybe you just need to be patient. Be proactive about finding the sort of person you need, and asides from that just let things unfold with serenity, without trying to force things.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I didn't like the reply that guy gave you, you don't seem conceited. Or at least not irrevocably so. I much prefer honest than PC, too.

I agree. That guy was waaaaaay off. Pay no attention. Projection is a fascinating phenomena.

[apsinvo]

I used to feel exactly the same way during a period of being single for 2 years after a long term relationship. Yes, first and most importantly, there are the personal issues to work on. The next question, is where are you looking? After 3 years, it suddenly dawned upon me that my expectations vs my activities and where I was actually looking were two completely different things. 3 further years on from that adjustment, and I am now engaged to be married

[Kinsington]

I liked codenamesmiley's response. Yes, it sounds like you're trying to be the perfect guy from the cover of the Men's Health magazine. He looks perfect, but that guy's not real. Perhaps the women can sense that, perhaps the 300lb guy with the girlfriend is being real.

Although you did mention something I've thought before - that women have way more sexual options than men do (or at least more than I do...). I've never been able to pick a girl up in a bar, yet I feel like a reasonably attractive women could walk in and have any man she chose.

Women, is this true? Or is this a "poor me" attitude by us guys?

It seems like women hold all the power over men, in terms of deciding when sex will be had.

[brendannz]

Hang in there mate,

try and be a bit more free of expectations from others, and also don't pay too much attention to what other people are doing, regardless of how big or small they are. You never really know what's going on in their private universes, and it might just be that you find the real girl you're looking for, that they haven't found and just appear to have.

You're not conceited at all, just expressing frustration, nothing wrong with that

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Kinsington

Although you did mention something I've thought before - that women have way more sexual options than men do (or at least more than I do...). I've never been able to pick a girl up in a bar, yet I feel like a reasonably attractive women could walk in and have any man she chose.

Maybe, but sleeping with any stranger isn't so appealing to everyone, really.. It's not really about having as many options as possible

[Curious cat]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

It seems like b/c a bunch of extremely low quallity guys are willing to date her she would never give me even a half second second look. It seems like if I want to have even a half rate girlfrined I am supossed to have ninja level bf skills.

Do these women know you are interested in them before your male friends ♥♥♥♥-blocked you? Let me tell you from one female's perspective, if i am single and i meet two guys, physical attraction aside, i would likely want to get to know the guy who made more of an effort to get to know me. Mr quiet could be Mr right but i would be ignorant to that fact, because i wouldn't know who he is.

Now i don't know if most women are like me or not (though i suspect they are), but i would only like to date one guy at a time. So if your friend has already established some rapport/chemistry with me before you had the chance, i will rebuff any additional male advances while i am assessing my newfound love interest. And unless the guy is an obvious jerk, i would generally give people the benefit of the doubt while i am trying to get to know them. So in this case, it's all to do with timing and nothing personal against you ... The earlybird catches the worm

I wouldn't focus too much on those super ninja moves, though it may help with flexibility . Quality women should be able to see through gimmicks, i know i do. I would much rather a guy be himself, otherwise it just feels forced and try hardy. And like another poster mentioned, good vibes are an important prerequisite to a good relationship.

It really just feels like I have been into PD for years and ant woman can come along and do a half assed jo for a month or so and surpass my efforts b/c she has more sexual options than I can in a lifetime.

Can you please clarify this further for me, as i don't understand. What do these women surpass you at, and why do you think there is a correlation between sexual option and personal development?

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

... of ever even trying to start a relationship. It seems like every guy and hisbrother seems to hook up with literally every girl that exists. I don't do that . I'm a real man, and I' m looking for a real girl but it seems like I'm not permitted to have a real girl. It is not an exaggeration to say to say that most of the guys I know with girl friends , they are over 300 pounds. I am in school full time and in college. I work out at least three days a week if not more. I spend all my time working on personal development and being the best person I possibly can. I am working out 3-4 days a a week , I have a genius level IQ. WTF. I mean WTF I couldn't even get the lowest quality woman I know to date me is what it feels like b/c there is so much competition from guys who put them selves out there just because they exist , despite the fact that they have nothing to offer. It seems like b/c a bunch of extremely low quallity guys are willing to date her she would never give me even a half second second look. It seems like if I want to have even a half rate girlfrined I am supossed to have ninja level bf skills. W T F ? This is A.) something i have I have been working on for a long time, and B something I have been thinking about for a long time. I will be posting about it a lot from here on out till I have sufficient answers or until I feel better about it. I'm not kidding I have a lot to say about this subject . It really just feels like I have been into PD for years and ant woman can come along and do a half assed jo for a month or so and surpass my efforts b/c she has more sexual options than I can in a lifetime.

I am sorry this looks a like a victim venting post, but it seems very realistic to me. I have put it off for a while but it seems ti be true. In more ways than I can describe in a short post. It seems really true . I am a nice normal but not a ♥♥♥♥♥ guy. and it almost seems like I am not even allowed to have a fulfilling relationship. WHAT GIVES!?!?!?

Hi

Although I'd be the last to consult about relationships, I can say Ive chalked up 3 in my life. One for 35yrs...one for 3yrs (due to my husband passing) and the last for 3yrs since. Whatever I can offer you, I am willing to do so if you feel it can help at all.

I dont see this post as a victim whine...just someone p'd off at things not going right for him. Regardless of what others think, its still frustrating when you cant figure out what it is your not doing right. I know nothing about you or your life, so I cannot place any judgement on causes, but we can look at effects together.

Cheers

[Carri C]

sorry to hear it. i was 16 years into my full-on PD path before i met my long-term partner. having relatively easy access to sex, as i mostly had, isn't necessarily an advantage in finding 'true love' or even fundamental compatibility. and for all my PD, my bottom line reaction was one of unfathomably low self-esteem and overwhelming depression (which sounds a bit different to yours but possibly flipside of the same coin).

anyway, i haven't got any advice. just my experience. this may sound a bit like "when you stop looking yadda yadda" but it was deeper than that.

My "what's the point...." crisis started when i entered the most unbelievably appalling relationship of my life after 12 years of intensive spiritual and personal development.

for the next 4 years i stayed in that relationship and a job that i was hopelessly stuck in, feeling too low to go anyway and i really deeply gave up. at the time it felt like i was giving up caring about anything or anyone, giving up on God, giving up on PD, giving up on hope for my life, giving up belief in anything. i stopped reading spiritual literature, i reduced recovery meetings to a bare minimum and the only reason i didn't suicide was a belief that i'd take even worse karma into my next life.

i worked, i came home and my only relief was 1-2 hours of meditation a night. i wrote off this lifetime to burning off past life bad karma in the hope of at least improving it for next lifetime and set about looking for opportunities to "do good".

i still don't really know fully how to make sense of what happened in that time and following. perhaps it was 'the surrender i needed to have'. maybe i needed to let go of all my ideas and concepts of how the universe works and what i thought 'should' happen. maybe it just passed as all things do.

i didn't come out enlightened but something shifted. after a number of incidents i left the old job and started my own business (a long-held dream); 3 months later that awful relationship finished for good; i joined an online motorcycle forum and found new people to ride with; as a result of those 3 things i felt lighter than i'd known for years; i got a hunch that i wouldn't meet a partner for 6 years and set about enjoying that time; and 2 months later i met my long-term partner and now father of our child. (and after 20 years of depression, i've barely suffered with a day since this time).

i don't know whether that makes you feel worse or better. i tell the story hoping it offers hope. i wish you well. it's not easy. best, c x

[votoshka]

I do know where you're coming from Billy, despite the fact that I'm female .

It always kinda got me down how there was this idea out there that any girl can pretty much just get a guy so easily, when my experience was the opposite. I would try to analyse every little teeny thing that could possibly be wrong with me to figure out why men just didn't find me attractive!

But the truth is that in part a lot of my difficulties came from my worldview (or just the way I see things to be...) if that makes sense. A lot of women come from the perspective of "men find me attractive" and they think that way no matter what they look like...and sure enough, men do. Others of us come from a position of lack, or of fear, or of something that means that maybe we just don't come across the right way.

For starters, because I assumed people wouldn't like me, I'd get defensive straight up. I mean... I'd walk around with big walls all around me, instead of being all friendly and open. I guess my thought was that people can't reject me if I reject them all first. So because I expected rejection, I just put up a barrier against it...and then was all upset because no guys seemed to pay any interest in me.

Now, I'm not saying you do that . But I am thinking that maybe you're just not seeing reality as it IS, but as you think it IS. You look around and see everything that agrees with your worldview, but you miss the things that don't. I am pretty darn certain that there are other guys like you out there who have girlfriends! And I'm also pretty darn certain that you CAN get a girlfriend.

[Bradshaw]

Well, I don't know you... I can't observe your vibe and tell you what you can improve on, but something does come to mind:

Chill out. Like... relax, take it easy. It's not a big deal. Life is fun, don't take it so seriously, ya know?

You just sound so serious in your post--relax.

[SilentIndigo]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

I am sorry this looks a like a victim venting post, but it seems very realistic to me. I have put it off for a while but it seems ti be true. In more ways than I can describe in a short post. It seems really true . I am a nice normal but not a ♥♥♥♥♥ guy. and it almost seems like I am not even allowed to have a fulfilling relationship. WHAT GIVES!?!?!?

First Post Hero Time -

Just to be fair to the OP, I am also a genius level IQ at 149 the last time i got tested when i was 9 years old so no clue where its at now. I also have terrible spelling and grammar and this is not due to me being stupid and on the contrary a reason why i'm so smart! You see, people with high IQ are prone to having Dyslexia/Autism. I have both, my Autism is Aspergers syndrome, and as of note many of the most famous people you know have or had similar problems with reading and writing. I am sure the reason we have higher physical learning and empirical study IQ is the cause and effect of us being of a higher general IQ and thus being smart because we have to find other non-common coping and learning strategy's to be able to survive in the world.

Now on to the more important thing! I completely understand what OP is saying in his mumbled typing way. I can also pose forth a theory that i have been holding onto for a while but am almost sure is true. I think that every human being has a specialty intelligence or knowledge, this is their own and depending on origins and brain formation for what this specialist intelligence is. I would put forth that someone like the OP or myself would see a normal average persons specialist intelligence as something stupid or trivial that is worthless thus they must be of lower intelligence and non-worthy. I could give an example as most normal people know who Justin beiber is or who won X-factor or who is out in American Idol or what kind of clothing is in fashion or what Pete at the diner is doing with Stacy behind the tool shed. Myself and OP would scoff and think of this as such a retarded waste of time, this is because we only value our own type of specialist intelligence and not these other peoples form. I then find it even more fascinating that most teenage girls into their late 20's will most likely have that old standard celebrity and fashion mentality specialist intelligence and they value this far much greater then OP and myself with our books of philosophy and knowings of complex science. Now we have the average guy, the dumb minded stereotypical jock, he is also into the same specialist intelligence as those girls from their teens to late twenties and the girls will look at him like.... WOW! He knows so much stuff about these things we also love so we will go out with him as he seems like a nice normal guy! Where as looking at myself and OP the girls will say.... Wow.... he is kind boring we don't like anything hes talking about and hes like an old man... he knows nothing popular.. so its best i don't go out with him!

You see my humble OP, Women don't value IQ points or how much science you know, how you can create anti-gravity or even how you have your very own light-saber you made from neodymium magnets, some garnet and a Tesla coil! They are simply looking for someone similar to them with the same interests and even better if they know "lots!" about said interests so they feel a bond and share that very same specialized intelligence!

Take a leaf out of my book and when you try to talk to pretty girls you have to keep it a little loose and dubbed down to the particular girls level as you will be able to tell within 15 seconds. I also wish to add that you should never ever talk of anything complex or even remotely taxing when talking to a girl because they get turned off by it and will shut you down faster then a radioactive Einstein bridge gone haywire.

Oh and one last thing.

When your talking to a pretty girl never mention an Einstein Bridge, seriously just don't do it. :P

[elucidate]

I dunno. If you made me a Tesla coil, I'd be pretty impressed.

[GaryMichaels]

I have never had your problem so I honestly can’t relate to the way you are feeling now but I think you need to calm down, find some solitude and have some time to reflect. Perhaps there could be something that you are doing wrong but you just can’t see it. In order to find out you need to see yourself from another perspective. No offence, but your post comes across as slightly egotistical. Woman like confidence but too much of it can be a bad thing unless it is expressed in a jokingly fashion. Telling people you have a genius level IQ could also be seen as a turnoff.

Nobody is a genius and anybody who claims to be is just being a smartass in my opinion. I currently work as a part time computer teacher and a journalist but I don’t see myself as a genius and I know I am not the greatest writer in the world either even though I am trying to become one. I have my good days and my bad days. That is simply the way it is and having OCD drives me insane because I constantly go over my writing and rewrite it but when it’s on a forum I can’t be bothered.

Another thing in your post that stood out to me was “I couldn't even get the lowest quality woman I know to date me.” Were you using quality in terms of looks, intelligence or personality? That sounds egotistical once again as you are stating that you are better than them and if you are saying these things to women I can understand why they are knocking you back. I think you need to change your attitude. I just read your post to my Fiancée and she said you sound like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Sorry but if you really want to get a girlfriend you need to work on not being such a narcissist.

You are still in school and University so what’s the rush? Perhaps instead of trying to find a girlfriend you should be focusing more on your studying and then try to find a girlfriend later. I have only been with two women so I can’t say I am an expert in this field but I have never been dumped, knocked back and I have had women ask me out. I am not the best looking guy in the world either but I have come to learn from experience that looks are not that important and you need personality. People that date merely on looks are egotistical creatures and not worth the time of day.

This might not be the best method for you but if you find a woman that you like try becoming friends with her first so you can get to know more about the person she is inside. It has worked for me and I have had two great relationships because of it and I have also avoided having what could have been five horrible relationships because I quickly realised I had nothing in common with the woman and simply did not like her. I realise you risk being put in the friend zone but I think that is a risk worth taking because if you can’t be friends with a woman what is the point of dating her unless you just want sex and in that case there are woman they call prostitutes.

[SilentIndigo]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Another thing in your post that stood out to me was “I couldn't even get the lowest quality woman I know to date me.” Were you using quality in terms of looks, intelligence or personality? That sounds egotistical once again as you are stating that you are better than them and if you are saying these things to women I can understand why they are knocking you back. I think you need to change your attitude. I just read your post to my Fiancée and she said you sound like an ♥♥♥â℠¢Â¥Ã¢â„¢Â¥Ã¢â„¢Â¥Ã¢â„¢Â ¥. Sorry but if you really want to get a girlfriend you need to work on not being such a narcissist

People with high IQ tend to Judge other people by their own specialist intelligence, It also works both ways where we judge based on logic and skill and they judge back at us with social experience understanding and popular culture. If you check my post before you will see why we both judge each other, the only sad part is the people with high IQ get told its wrong to judge and the people with knowledge of social trends and norms who judge us get away scott free without even an inch of retribution because they outnumber us 100:1. Its also one of the reasons we tend to be bitter about women as society generally through TV, Music and Popular culture will usually end up subconscious telling girls what they should and should not like, mostly popular culture.. see its a loop of self gratification where you only win if your the most popular person who is in the highest loop of culture tends. We few and brave of high IQ are bitter and can be narcissistic but why is that our fault? You don't invite us to parties, you bully us at school because we are different, girls think we are nerds and make fun of us and for all of this we have to put in extra effort at school or work to succeed with almost no reward. So why are we bitter? Its pretty obvious why and you can't blame us for it as its the majority that never accepts the little guy because they see him as different and scary!

Originally Posted by elucidate

I dunno. If you made me a Tesla coil, I'd be pretty impressed.

Not after what happened last time love.

[Criseyde]

Hmmm... okay Billy, I'm going to tell you something embarrassing. Please don't judge me.

After a couple bad experiences early in life, I disregarded men for most of my college career. I just wasn't interested in dating or romance. It wasn't until maybe 2/3rds of the way through junior year that this changed.

But anyway, once it did change, I realized something. Men SUCKED! Or so I privately and unfeministly thought to myself. (Now, remember where I told you I went to school -- HUGE Greek culture, HUGE sports culture.) All they cared about was drinking themselves stupid. Judging from all the stories I heard about drunken sex, they probably cared about that too, but at least there was a smidgen of southern courtesy and they didn't say so in front of me (except one time -- I'll spare you the story ).

Anyway, since I wasn't interested in drinking myself stupid every weekend, this severely limited my options. It never changed, by the way. I started meeting nicer guys as time went on, but they still wanted to get plastered as much as possible. Oh well.

Also, as time went on, my girlfriends, who had for years felt the same way as I did about all the drunkenness and stuff, capitulated to this and started getting plastered all the time, and even doing the hookup thing (though not as much as others I knew). So that kind of sucked as well. Honestly, if I hadn't had friends outside of school, I might have also gone for it. It seemed like my friends were enjoying themselves but I had to wonder how much of it was real, considering the change in attitude. Or maybe they just decided to go for broke since we didn't have much time left. Not really my business though. It did result in some Friday nights in bed with a novel. I was lucky that I did have one close friend with a steady boyfriend who didn't go to our school, so she was around to hang out with.

ANYWAY -- once it got to the point where it seemed like everyone except me was doing this thing and everyone except me had members of the opposite sex interested in them, I started to feel kind of the way you do. What is wrong with me, hand wringing kind of stuff. But eventually (and this took a couple months), I realized that there was nothing wrong with me. I *was* too intense, in certain ways, to get along well with guys who were in that space. And I *was* not enough fun, by that definition of fun -- I wouldn't loosen up, get plastered, and uh... I don't know what goes on at drunken parties, actually. I've been to a couple but I was too drunk to really remember. I mean, I know I stood in a corner uncomfortably but I don't remember what other people did. I was just in the wrong place for connecting with the kind of guys I'd be interested in. And that's okay. It was more important to me to keep my own attitude and interests.

tl;dr: you just haven't met her yet.

[BillyTheAdult]

There's a lot going on in these responses. This thread probably needs to be broken down into several about the specific issues I'm having, which I intend to do, although right now I guess I am kind of just venting.

To those of you who suggested it, I don't believe I am conceited. I don't think there is anything wrong with an expectation of quality which I would define as a combination of looks, intelligence, personality, and maturity, all things I would consider myself to have at least a reasonable amount of. I only bring up my intelligence and whatever else to make the point that I have good qualities going for me. I feel like I know myself pretty well and want to get to know myself better through relationships but I reject the idea of staying alone to do it. I've been alone for 99% of my life what I need is less alone time not more of it. I also think that I am the person I am b/c I value the qualities I have (working on what I don't like) and not because of societal expectation. Life would much easier if I decided that I didn't care about the things that I care about and did what everyone else liked b/c it seems to me that society doesn't expect much from people anymore and I want more from myself than that.

But as I said I have some specific ideas/beliefs/questions that will likely not be popular that I will start posting about one at a time to have discussion/ be challenged or whatever

[BillyTheAdult]

Thanks Criseyde

This part

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Also, as time went on, my girlfriends, who had for years felt the same way as I did about all the drunkenness and stuff, capitulated to this and started getting plastered all the time, and even doing the hookup thing (though not as much as others I knew). So that kind of sucked as well.

In particular stood out to me because it seems like when I do meet girls who are sort of in the same head space as me, they have kind of given up and joined this culture which is a pretty big turn off. It's also somewhat ironic because to me it seems like they may have gone that direction because they felt there was a lack of good guys outside of it and now they may not date me b/c I'm not a part of that culture as well.

[Criseyde]

So this is not the I/M forum, but have you looked into I/M at all? Just wondering... I've noticed that it's really hard for me to do stuff unless I'm properly "lined up" with it.

[BillyTheAdult]

No I generally stay away from it. I feel like it's a little woo-woo, or at least that people carry it too far. I think I would end up calling somebody stupid or something so I just don't even go there.


I do believe in it to some extent though. I mean I have a very solid personal belief system, which definitely shares some I/M like ideas. I mean you're more likely to eat ice cream if you are thinking about ice cream. I know what you mean about being "lined up" I am actually feeling more lined up now than I have in years or possibly ever, which is part of the reason why this is sooooo frustrating.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

No I generally stay away from it. I feel like it's a little woo-woo, or at least that people carry it too far. I think I would end up calling somebody stupid or something so I just don't even go there.


I do believe in it to some extent though. I mean I have a very solid personal belief system, which definitely shares some I/M like ideas. I mean you're more likely to eat ice cream if you are thinking about ice cream. I know what you mean about being "lined up" I am actually feeling more lined up now than I have in years or possibly ever, which is part of the reason why this is sooooo frustrating.

Well, that's kind of the thing. You're not all the way there, otherwise it wouldn't be frustrating. You still have some resistance. I guess you know that, though.