My Fiancée is afraid of sex?

[GaryMichaels]

My Fiancée (Hailey) and I have been together for nearly seven years and we have never had sex. The reason being she was raped when she was nineteen years old and she became pregnant with a baby girl who is now eight years old. She has not had sex with another man since and even though she tells me that she trusts me and I am the first guy she has loved she doesn’t want to do it and frequently changes the subject when I bring it up in conversations.

To say our relationship has been difficult would be an understatement. Most of my friends and family say it is unconventional but I love this woman and I would be willing to do anything to make it work. She is the girl of my dreams.

I have taken her to therapists about this but it hasn’t changed the way she feels about sex and I’m beginning to think we will never do it. It is a problem but if we don’t I will still marry her because that is how much I love her. We have been living together for four years and her daughter believes I am her biological father and calls me Daddy. I have a great relationship with her and my Fiancée says I am the best Dad in the world.

Our daughter does not know her mother was raped and Hailey never wants her to find out. She has never seen the guy that raped her again and he does not know. She told me if he ever came one step near her daughter she would not hesitate to kill him.

She has developed a hatred for men and luckily she views me as an exception. After she gave birth to our daughter she spent three years learning self defence and spent time in the gym so if another man tried to hurt her she would know how to protect herself. She knows that I would never harm her and she says meeting me was one of the best things that happened to her.

We are finally getting married in January on the same day we got together seven years ago and she talks about it every day. Even though we have never had sex we kiss and cuddle and we do everything else most normal couples do but it does bother me sometimes because I have never experienced it.

My girlfriend before Hailey passed away when I was seventeen and I am still a virgin. Hailey is older than me and she was in a few other relationships before she was raped in which she was physically and emotionally abused and I think they contributed to her fear of sex.

I don’t want to complain but I am confused and don’t know what to do. Should I just give sex the flick altogether or should I be encouraging her to see more people about this problem. I don’t want to force her to do anything she doesn’t want to do.

[elucidate]

First of all, that's a lot of sadness in your former and current loves, so I feel for you there.

I'm not sure how to advise you here? It's awesome that you are willing to stand by her even though your needs are not being met, and may not for a while. Most wouldn't be able to stick through it I don't think. 7 Years is a very long time to go without having sex with the person you love.

Sex is an important part of any healthy relationship. If you were gay then it would be a perfect situation for both of you, but you aren't I take it, and it's hard when she won't even let you speak about it with her.

You sound like a very understanding person, and you obviously love her a great deal, so i'm sure that is helping her immensely. It's a challenging situation you're in.

I think this is a pretty normal thing that victim/survivors experience. My mother was raped before she met my father, and I don't think, apart from conceiving my brothers and me, that she liked sex or had it much after that. I've had similar experiences since I was assaulted as well, and it changed the way I felt towards men also, which is unfortunate.

My point is, I can't say for sure that your love will start to want sex again...that's the truth. She may...but it's possible she may never get past it unless there is real determination on her part to heal and get that part of her life back.

If she trusts you and cares about you the way you obviously care about her, then communicating about this in a way that is sensitive to both your needs and feelings is important. You deserve to get your needs met as well. Both of you have needs here. Hers are very complex, and yours are just as important. so I don't think you are complaining at all. It's ok for you to want to have sex with the woman you love...that's perfectly normal. It's just an unfortunate situation.

[newkaren]

Are you willing to spend the rest of your life w/o having sex?

Because that is the deal you are getting.

I understand where your fiancee is coming from. I have a few friends who were raped, and they don't like sex.

Good luck to you what ever you decided.

[Eduard E]

Complicated situation. I guess you need to ask yourself what option will bring you more happiness in the long run. It's good that you're being realistic about this, that's the way to make this decision.

Personally, I can't help thinking: how in the world is she the girl of your dreams if you never even had sex?

[Criseyde]

I think there's a possibility that the two of you will never have sex. Rather than trying to think about how to convince her to have sex, I think it would probably be more worthwhile to start from there. I don't know how likely it is but I would certainly not encourage you to marry her on the assumption that you will eventually be able to sleep with her (it doesn't sound like you have illusions about this, though -- that's a good thing).

If you love her and want to be with her and also want to have sex, could you open up your relationship?

[SkylightMT]

Its obvious that you love this woman very much. You sound like a wonderful man.

First of all, I think it might be more useful to stop thinking of this problem as "her" problem - its both of your problems now. Its a relationship problem. What would you think about going to couple's counseling together?

It could be that there are ways both of you could have a sex life that is more satisfying. With guidance from a good therapist, I'll bet the two of you can slowly make your way to more intimacy. It might be that penetration is something she will never be able to do, but there are many things between cuddling and penetration that are very fun and loving. A therapist is essential, though, as probably neither one of you will be able to identify the kinds of needs she will have for control and for safety and how to meet those needs.

[The Cloud]

I think your focus is in the wrong place. To me, it sounds like the problem is less that she won't have sex, and more that she won't talk about it. Stonewalling is one of the top reasons that relationships collapse over time, because it means that she knows that there's an issue, and is absolutely adamant that it never be resolved.

I'm not sure what to tell you, because you can't force her to fix herself, and it doesn't sound like you have to in order to be in her life. It sounds like she'd have to be living in a lot of fear, though, since half the world is men, and the man she loves wants to have sex with her. Maybe the best thing would be for you to let her know that you want her to be strong and happy instead of living in fear and pain.

One question I have is, if she really trusts you, then why doesn't she try to have sex with you when she knows you want to? The problem isn't that she gets bored or that it's painful for her, it's that sex is something she refuses to do with you. If all she trusts is that you'll never challenger her fears, then that's just complacency. Your relationship will always be limited by the fact that her trust is being used as a means of avoiding confronting a traumatic experience.

You can never demand trust, but you should be aware if she doesn't have it for you, and she should be aware that you're aware. Thankfully, you can continue to trust her even if she doesn't trust you.

[Nathan Bumpsteed]

My thought process complete did a 180 on how I was going to reply to this between the time I read the Subject and the time I read the actual Post.

No one would envy your situation Gary. I don't think there is a one size fits all fix for this.

As humans, no matter what religious or nonreligious beliefs you have, we are physically biochemically and emotionally DESIGNED to have sex. Don't feel the least bit of regret or embarrassment for posting this very serious question here. It a real problem and you're doing great by investigating potential answers.

I personally am a Christian. I'm sincerely not throwing religion into this to make it a heated debate. But the Bible says that Man and Woman are to lay together. I mean, we have chemicals in us that make us want sex on a fundamental level...

Sex is more than just a pleasure thing, so never feel bad about your concerns with this.

You have to answer 1 very specific question before you can make any progress with this. Are you willing to not have sex your entire life?

If you bring it up to her, keep the emotions as low as possible. You don't want it turning into a fight.

Does she even know this is a concern for you?

[rawxstasy]

I suffered serious sexual abuse as a child and was raped by a boyfriend and my husband. (we are seperated now )

I really think she needs to work harder at this. It's very admirable that you are willing to still marry her. But I just think she also needs to consider your needs. Does she really expect you to not ever have sex with her? I think that's a little selfish.

Avoiding the problem doesn't make it go away. Going to therapy a few times isn't going to resolve this. She needs to find a therapist that speciallizes in sexual trauma.

If she is unwilling to deal with it to make you happy - then I think you have more invested in the relationship than she does.

[rawxstasy]

Just to add - I was sexually abused by three different members of my family on my father's side. Sexually assaulted by two other men (acquantainces) Sexually abused by a therapist. Anally raped by a former boyfriend. Raped by soon to be ex- husband.

I've been seeing therapists on and off for ten years. I am nearing the end of my healing. I know this because I have stopped acting out sexually. Made healthier choices for myself. Am feeling ready for a relationship.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by rawxstasy

I really think she needs to work harder at this. It's very admirable that you are willing to still marry her. But I just think she also needs to consider your needs. Does she really expect you to not ever have sex with her? I think that's a little selfish.

Whilst I don't usually like to assume what a person needs, I tend to agree here. It may be that Hailey went along to one or two therapy sessions, to keep you happy, but had no real intention of delving into her issues because it was and is very hard work, and painful as well.

She may not want to relive anything or face her challenges with this, so instead she just gave up. That's what it sounds like to me. It's also true that denial is a way the mind protects the person from facing what is scary, and Hailey may not be ready yet to face her past, in which case patience is necessary...but 7 years...you've been pretty patient already.

At the very least, you may need to really assert yourself with her about communicating about your needs in this matter...otherwise it sounds like Hailey will never really see that it's affecting you this much...and may not be able to think about you in this until you let your needs be known.

I can understand it from Hailey's point of view...but it really isn't fair on you. You deserve to have a normal, healthy relationship that involves sexual expression.

Avoiding the problem doesn't make it go away. Going to therapy a few times isn't going to resolve this. She needs to find a therapist that speciallizes in sexual trauma.

If she is unwilling to deal with it to make you happy - then I think you have more invested in the relationship than she does.

I agree here as well. It's hard work and it will take time. I think you are making a lot of sacrifices for someone who may not be thinking about you as much as you are about her.

There needs to be balance in a relationship.

[Elfwing]

I'm going to go opposite to what everyone else is saying -- you are not entitled to sex from her. You may want to have sex, and that's okay, and opening the relationship so you can get that need fulfilled is okay as long as she's okay with it. It's okay to feel frustrated you're not getting some.

But pressuring her to have sex is way unhealthy. I realise you're not doing this but seeing the comments makes me want to state that.

It is not selfish to not want sex. If she doesn't want sex, that is okay. She is not being selfish, she is taking care of herself, and having sex -- even with someone she trusts as much as you -- will put her in an unsafe place. That's why she doesn't do it. She doesn't owe you sex and I'm sickened that some people seem to be suggesting that.

There's a reason why a man pressuring a girl to have sex is rape. If she slept with you and didn't want to, you'd not only be chucking a wrench into her healing, that would be rape because it would not be complete consent. She'd be doing it because she'd be feeling pressured.

That is not okay.

Are you willing to go without sex for the rest of your life to be with her? If so, good on you. If you want to open your relationship to get sex and she's okay with that -- good on her too.

But the question is, does she want to have sex again one day and she just can't bring herself do it? If so, you can work with her. Go to counseling with her, figure out what she needs, and help her along and always back off when she tells you to. Baby steps. But if not, then there's nothing you can do, and you have three options -- live with it, open your relationship (with her consent), or break up with her. Remember that she could be feeling pressured and feel abnormal because she doesn't want it and that will only scare her off the idea even more.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Elfwing

It is not selfish to not want sex. If she doesn't want sex, that is okay. She is not being selfish, she is taking care of herself, and having sex -- even with someone she trusts as much as you -- will put her in an unsafe place. That's why she doesn't do it. She doesn't owe you sex and I'm sickened that some people seem to be suggesting that.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that she owes him sex at all... I think you are interpreting things this way though and throwing words like 'entitlement' out there, which isn't at all what most people here are saying.

Of course he isn't 'entitled' to sex from her, but sex is a part of a healthy relationship. If he is willing to go without for his whole life then that's fine and his choice, but he is asking people for our take on it, so how can you expect us to not recognize that he also has needs that are not being met here?

If anything I see people recognizing that whilst hailey is perfectly fine not wanting sex, it still doesn't address Gary's needs, and since there are two of them in a relationship...both peoples needs are equally important. You seem to be saying that his aren't as important, and that Hailey's needs are more important.

I do think that not even allowing him to discuss the issue is not really thinking of him here, which is what I find selfish, not that Hailey doesn't want to have sex...that part is understandable, I can see it is obviously a very difficult issue for her.

I've seen people suggesting that it may be that Hailey isn't ready to work with a therapist, but that this is what is necessary if there is any hope towards the issue being healed. I've also seen people make the same suggestion you have whereby possibly making the relationship open...though Garry may not even want to have sex with anyone else but Hailey, which is fair enough.

There's a reason why a man pressuring a girl to have sex is rape. If she slept with you and didn't want to, you'd not only be chucking a wrench into her healing, that would be rape because it would not be complete consent. She'd be doing it because she'd be feeling pressured.

Garry has stated that he specifically doesn't want to pressure Hailey and no one here is saying he should. What they are saying is that he also deserves to have his needs met and that perhaps more determined effort to work with a therapist would help Hailey move into a place where she heals and becomes more receptive to wanting sex. That is in both their best interests isn't it?

Of course, if she isn't ready to then there's no law saying Hailey has to do this. I think it would help her though to at least give it more of a go. Sexual dysfunction can be overcome with the right therapist I think.

[votoshka]

I tend to think...there's only one way she's going to get over her fear of sex. And it's pretty much the same way a person will get over their fear of riding horses after falling off one... and that's to get back up again!

In a safe, comfortable, loving environment your fiancee should be willing to at least "give it a go". If she feels completely safe with you, she can tell you to stop if she's getting nervous, or if it's bringing up really bad feelings... BUT I do think she should at least make the effort.

Yes, I understand she's been through trauma. And I know women who have been raped who have basically become celibate. I also know women who have been raped who have gone on to have normal sex lives.

It's very much a choice on her part, but I do think that if she does want to continue a long relationship with you, she should at least be willing to try. Heck, you're a virgin, and I've gotta say, if I was in her position I'd feel sort of guilty for not at least trying to get over my fears for your sake. I certainly wouldn't expect to marry a guy who was a virgin and then just basically... expect him to remain that way forever and put up with it!

She may never come to enjoy regular sex again (although it would be nice for you both if she did) but I really think that before you get married you need to discuss this issue fully, and have her at least willing to try!

Now...I'll also say, I agree she isn't "obligated" to give you sex. No women should feel obligated. BUT I do think it's unrealistic to expect to have a long term relationship and NEVER have sex in that relationship. I think if you're never going to have sex again, then you'd be better off alone or in an asexual relationship with someone who is also asexual and who themselves feels no desire for sex, but wants a romantic and close relationship.

[SkylightMT]

Originally Posted by Elfwing

I'm going to go opposite to what everyone else is saying -- you are not entitled to sex from her. You may want to have sex, and that's okay, and opening the relationship so you can get that need fulfilled is okay as long as she's okay with it. It's okay to feel frustrated you're not getting some.

But pressuring her to have sex is way unhealthy. I realise you're not doing this but seeing the comments makes me want to state that.

It is not selfish to not want sex. If she doesn't want sex, that is okay. She is not being selfish, she is taking care of herself, and having sex -- even with someone she trusts as much as you -- will put her in an unsafe place. That's why she doesn't do it. She doesn't owe you sex and I'm sickened that some people seem to be suggesting that.

There's a reason why a man pressuring a girl to have sex is rape. If she slept with you and didn't want to, you'd not only be chucking a wrench into her healing, that would be rape because it would not be complete consent. She'd be doing it because she'd be feeling pressured.

That is not okay.

Are you willing to go without sex for the rest of your life to be with her? If so, good on you. If you want to open your relationship to get sex and she's okay with that -- good on her too.

But the question is, does she want to have sex again one day and she just can't bring herself do it? If so, you can work with her. Go to counseling with her, figure out what she needs, and help her along and always back off when she tells you to. Baby steps. But if not, then there's nothing you can do, and you have three options -- live with it, open your relationship (with her consent), or break up with her. Remember that she could be feeling pressured and feel abnormal because she doesn't want it and that will only scare her off the idea even more.

Of all the posts, this makes the most sense to me.

Beautifully stated and all true.

[kevinpd]

Hi Gary.

I was in your situation myself many years ago.
I was and still am deeply in love with her. We met and like you did everything except full sex. I dont know if anything happened to my girl in the past. She never said anything. All I know is we tried many times but I could not get inside as she was to tight and tense!
I Spent 11 years with her. I was totally loyal up until the last 3 months. Then it all fell apart. I asked her to see a doctor. Eventually she did. I sat opposite and watch her sob as the doc said we need to investigate further to find the problem. She said yes crying her eyes out.
I sat there and though, "I cant force her to do this" (That's how it felt)
I ended the marrige. Ending it was the worst thing I ever did and I have never forgiven myself.
Maybe this say's more about me.
But Gary. Tell her how you feel, tell her it,s something you want to do to help show and your loveand do this before you marry. If she cant or wont sort it out before the marrige then please think carefully.
The fact that you have posted suggest's that you wont be happy long term and I dont want you ending up like me in the future.
Maybe even delay the marrige or just accept that things will never change, but search deep inside and be sure you will be happy.
If I could be of any help please email me.
Best wishes

[Lauxa]

I have been reading a book titled You Can Be Your Own Sex Therapist. It has exercises for couples to do that involve relaxation techniques, exploring sensuality, and connecting with sexual fears and desires. Maybe it would help the two of you.

[Acting Like Godot]

Just my opinion ... I think you should not marry her. By all means, be a very close friend or her best friend, and a father figure or "uncle figure" to her daughter. But not a husband.

One day, I think, you may decide that enough is enough and you will want to look for a sexual partner. While remaining this woman's friend. Actually I suspect she might not mind.

[Ceoarob]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Just my opinion ... I think you should not marry her. By all means, be a very close friend or her best friend, and a father figure or "uncle figure" to her daughter. But not a husband.

One day, I think, you may decide that enough is enough and you will want to look for a sexual partner. While remaining this woman's friend. Actually I suspect she might not mind.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Ceoarob

One day, I think, you may decide that enough is enough and you will want to look for a sexual partner. While remaining this woman's friend. Actually I suspect she might not mind.

That's tricky because his love runs so deep that the thought of being with another woman, even for a night, might seem so empty but then again the curiousity may need that exploration just to get past it.

True love can support non-possessiveness.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

That's tricky because his love runs so deep that the thought of being with another woman, even for a night, might seem so empty but then again the curiousity may need that exploration just to get past it.

True love can support non-possessiveness.

Perhaps. But I certainly understand a monogamous urge that goes beyond jealousy.

Gary, I have no advice. I wish I could say something that would help. You sound like a wonderful person and I'm rooting you and Hailey. I deeply hope everything works out for the best for both of you.

[KHM]

He has invested so much time and emotion into this relationship that walking away would be extremely difficult. You might not find that level of love again and feel regret. I divorced my wife almost a year ago because I found out she was cheating on me. Logically I made the right decision but emotionally I sometimes feel regret.

[Criseyde]

I admire you as well.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I don’t want to complain but I am confused and don’t know what to do. Should I just give sex the flick altogether or should I be encouraging her to see more people about this problem. I don’t want to force her to do anything she doesn’t want to do.

Thanks for sharing your story.

As sex is part of your DNA, there's no flicking it.

Hailey is in need of healing, but it seems no one has been able to give her a new perspective on life. That's because modern therapy and traditional religions don't actually heal, but give mental games to play and they don't work.

Her abusers and her are BOTH suffering from not knowing the answer to the question "who am I?" That she was used for a sexual escape from life is a manifestation of the fear of not knowing what life is about.

Her abusers are victims too. Neither of you want to think of them like that, I'm guessing. But she was used as a drug but that "drug" use is a symptom of a deeper problem in the abusers.

She identifies her "self" as her wounds and she won't let them go. She's a "rape victim" and not simply a human being. For her to let go of her identity, she has to see who she really is....loving, creative, kind, compassionate. And when she can see herself, she will see that her abusers weren't evil (the acts were evil) but that they were mentally ill to a degree that is beyond the "normal" everyday mental illness that we don't even notice around us in society everyday. Where most people escape in a few beers, or with TV, etc...., a very few need a stronger escape.

She was raped logically. Her abusers' minds computed that sex with her would be happiness for them. They abused her to be "happy". That's why we use drugs...to be "happy". There's a paradox in there. How can rape be happiness? Because logically it made sense to the rapist's mind so much so that he did it.

My mom logically decided that suicide will solve her problems. It did. The mind is like that.

To see the big picture is to be able to let go of the wound, to let go of the identification with the wound.

I feel for her and for you and there is no other way through this than to face it. You can't deny your sexual DNA. Just like the shrinks and priests have been able to give her something catchy mentally to fix her, you can't figure out some mental way to say goodbye to sex.

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks for taking the time to read my long posts.

Hailey knows when we are making out it isn’t going to lead to sex so she has no problems with it nor does she with cuddling or hugging which we do a lot of. There are hundreds and things we do that don’t lead to sex such as rubbing our noses together, holding hands, staring into each other eyes, tickling each other etc.

She likes cute romantic things so I try my hardest to do them for her every day. I have probably written her over a hundred songs now and performed them to her on my guitar and piano. She performs songs to me too our daughter thinks it’s funny to watch us.

We both come from musical backgrounds and performed in bands and duos when we were younger but Hailey gave up music when she got pregnant and only sings in front of me or her friends. She has an amazing voice and I think it’s a shame to see it go to waste but it is her decision. Hailey used to do modelling too but she is uncomfortable about even the notion of that now and regrets doing it. She doesn’t have any body image problems that I am aware of and she works out every day. One of the reasons she works out so much she has told me so another man will never be able to hurt her.

Hailey is stronger than me and a lot of other blokes. She likes me touching her and the only time she becomes uncomfortable is if I try to touch her in private areas as I mentioned a previous post. I have seen her naked and she doesn’t mind getting changed when I am in the same room as her or even having a shower with me. She trusts me but she doesn’t like being touched in a sexual way. I don’t know if she likes touching herself in a sexual way as I have never seen her do it or talked to her about it but I could. Thanks for the link to the website Ssandra.

From what I know she has gone through an extensive amount of psychical and emotion abuse and it dated back to when she was in school where she was teased and bullied by other kids for being too smart and nerdy. Hailey told me she hated school and she would cry every day when she came home and didn’t want to go. She said she wore glasses, braces, had long dark brown curly hair and was a bit chubby but she changed her look before she went to high school.

She started running every day, got her hair dyed blonde, had her braces removed and stopped wearing her glasses and she told me a lot of the kids she knew from school didn’t even recognise her when she started High School and the kids that had teased and bullied her wanted to be her friend or her boyfriend.

Hailey said she didn’t like it though and she thought they were phoney and shallow. She didn’t like seeing other kids go through what she went through either so she stopped hanging out with them and went back to her old friends. Looking back on the things she has told me about herself I think it explains a lot of things and perhaps being raped was the last straw. She only did modelling because her friends encouraged her to do it and she needed the money at the time. With the exception of her fear of sex I think she came out a stronger and much more confident woman.

We have been looking into therapy and she is going to see a new therapist about it this week. I will be going along with her and it will be on one of the days I don’t have to teach. Thanks for the kind words ButterflyWoman. I am loyal to Hailey because I love her and I always will. Nothing can change that and I guess that is something a lot of my friends don’t understand. If Hailey never gets over this fear I will have to give sex the flick. There is no other option and I am not breaking up with her or cheating on her with another woman just to have it. It isn’t worth ruining my relationship.

Maybe her abusers were victims but you’re right, I don’t see it that way and either does Hailey. In fact she told me if the bloke who raped her came one step near her she would kick his ass this time and I believe her. I know about addiction. I was addicted to cocaine, speed and alcohol but I am now straightedge and I don’t drink, smoke, do drugs and I am a vegetarian and so is Hailey. I know what it feels like to want to completely give up on life too.

[elucidate]

You're quite the man.

It's been really lovely to read your posts.

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks elucidate

[RonSouther]

That's outstanding Gary! Congrats on such a deep love!

[theuprising]

If its important to you, tell her that, and if it turns out its a no go (getting over a phobia is not impossible by any means, there is absolutely no physical blocks of her getting over this problem unless she has a chemical imbalance), reevaluate the situation and ask yourself would you be willing to be with her even if you never have sex. And then there's open relationships, and those are sticky and won't work out for everyone but its worth a shot.

[Danisoov]

She needs to learn how to turn the images of her rape "black" block them out of her mind. Trick her brain into producing amnesia for the traumatic events. I've been in a lot of traumatic experiences and I did this to all of them. Maya Angelou has a great book, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. That book illustrates how the character got over her rape. Also clonapins helped me get over a lot of my problems, however I wish I had only been prescribed them for a few months, not 2 years. Those pills REALLY made me forget. Don't let her drive a car if she is prescribed them. I can't tell you how many times I crashed taking them!