My Fiancée is afraid of sex?

[JSB]

I have seen professionally produced porn made by real-life couples, and the love and pleasure they get from the sex is apparent to the viewer. In some ways, it is very sweet to watch, but it almost feels like intruding. Whatever. Some people are exhibitionists and get off on being watched!

I don't want everyone to think I am promoting porn; I'm not. I think most of it is the sexual equivalent of McDonald's or Twinkies: empty of nourishment and potentially unhealthy. but I also think the severe judgment of people who partake in it is unfair and wrong, just as I think that shaming women for being sexually free or for enjoying their own sexuality on their own terms is also wrong.

There are so many cultures that have a history of celebrating male sexuality and denigrating female sexuality. Historically, men would all want sex so they would use the service of prostitutes or sleep with "willing women", whom they would then scorn and criticize in public. Today, with modern freedoms and liberal attitudes, as well as easily accessible birth control, there is still that hangover of "slut shaming", which is not only cruel, but fundamentally stupid -- promiscuous men are treated as "boys will be boys" (or maybe even celebrated as studs), while promiscuous women are looked down on as sluts. If horny men want to get laid so much, they really should be celebrating and supporting the women who like sex and aren't ashamed of it!

Even casual sex can be about human contact or connection, and nobody should be looked down upon for having sex (with consenting adults of course).

Originally Posted by RonSouther

I think the same thing, and when I woke up to this paradox, suddenly I couldn't watch the violence anymore at all, and what little porn I saw meant nothing to me either...I didn't decide to drop it, I just can't see the entertainment in it. I see both violence and porn as food for the hankering mind, looking to be distracted from facing reality.

I don't think that any of what is available in porn is a reflection of the kind of love Gary has and I wouldn't want my kids to watch two people getting off on each other without the two people really loving each other.

I don't see that any video of violence or sex is natural and healthy, regardless. I think it loads up the mind with pseudo stuff that would be healthy not to have logged in the memory.

I think a better way to provide sex education to kids (and I'm going to be shot for this) is for it to naturally occur at home where the parents are loving each other deeply where the child is free to witness. (The perverted minds will jump on me for this.) That would start from the earliest days, just as parents would hug and kiss. The kid has no perverted thoughts, just witnessing nature like in everything else. But this would take two really intelligent parents in a deep love relating which is rare so I can't see this being practical.

I've never seen a video of sex that seemed to be of deep love. And if deep love isn't there then I see sex being used like a drug and not a gift for the other, not a rise of love with each other. Sex in deep love is remarkably vanilla because the joy is already there even before the sex so sex doesn't have to be a continual pursuit of the next kinky idea to keep it fresh.

Sex in deep love is merely adding the body to the joy that already exists!

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

My view on the industry is different than Hailey’s but I do agree that some forms of porn do encourage rape such as women being tied up, gagged and slapped around.

Just felt another need to comment on this

If you ever watched porn like this, at the end of the performance (because that is what it is), they talk together, the person hurting and the person being hurt, or just the person being hurt. And they talk about how much fun they had, and how entertaining it was and how great they feel.

There are people who enjoy being tied up, gagged and slapped around (me, for one).
And those people who enjoy that, only do that in consensual relationship. I give permission before anything happens. I have a safe word, when I want things to stop. So do the people in the porn. Only you don't see that, because that doesn't make entertaining tv.

When they scream stop and it doesn't stop, it is because screaming stop, and not having it stop is FUN! In a consensual relationship, of course. And there is another word which WILL make everything stop right away.


Just felt the need for some more education

I agree with you on any other form of porn that isn't consensual. And since animals and children cannot consent, that is horrible stuff and (in my opinion) should be forbidden.

[ButterflyWoman]

*puts on mod hat*

I see how the topic veered into pornography, and that's cool because it was an organic development. At this point, though, it's getting rather far away from Gary's struggles with his fiancee's rape trauma and resulting issues, so if we could steer it back on topic, that would be good.

If you want to talk about pornography and attitudes toward it, etc., I can split parts of this thread (easily done) or you can start a new topic and go from there. Let's just try to keep this topic on the topic at hand before it goes way off the rails (it's not there, yet, I'm just trying to keep it from going there ).

*mod hat off*

EDIT: Thread has been split for those who want to continue the pornography discussion: http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/s...es-toward.html

[GaryMichaels]

I have to agree Butterfly and I will admit I am partly responsible for my thread going off topic since I mentioned my Fiancée’s perspective of the porn industry. While I don’t agree one hundred percent with her I think she is entitled to her opinion as is everybody who posted on this thread. My opinion of porn slightly differs from most males due to my religious upbringing and my old girlfriend. I think the females in these movies are free to do what they want and I am not going to ‘slut bash’ them for it but with that being said I also believe they could be doing something better with their lives.

Most of the female stars (with the exception of a few) are making less money doing porn than Hailey did modelling and she is making even more money now in her current profession. These are women that could be doctors, nurses, lawyers, scientists, engineers, accountants, psychologists, architects, writers, artists, system analyst, journalists, web designers, politicians, musicians, directors etc but instead they chose to perform sexual acts in front of a camera for thousands of perverts around the world such as desperate blokes who can't get girlfriends, blokes like Hailey’s Uncle who are going through a midlife crises or people in unhappy marriages.

I am not saying all people that watch porn are like that but I am strictly talking about the majority. Is porn really a dream career or is it the bottom of the barrel? I am aware there are women that enjoy being watched by men but take a good look at most of the men they attract. As a former model my Fiancée once told me most of the men that recognised her were very creepy and she would keep as far away as possible as she could from them. Porn is known to draw some very shady characters and I wonder if the women really get off knowing these types of men are watching them.

Porn and sex have became mainstream in recent years and as a parent I honestly don’t think that is a good thing when kids as young as my daughter can see it on TV, in magazines and can easily access it on the internet. Violence is becoming prominent in today’s society too and while I enjoy watching a good horror flick or an action movie with Schwarzenegger, Van Damme, Willis, Seagal and Lundgren I would never let my daughter watch them. We all know the difference between porn and action movies but in terms of debate you could easily say they are no different than cigarettes and alcohol.

There is a lot of pressure in today’s society to look ‘perfect’ and some kids develop anorexia trying to look like the people they see in magazines and TV. Porn is partially to blame for this as is the music, movies and modelling industries. They promote this concept and it is absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. No teenage girl or boy should have to look like a movie star. These are not good role models for kids and it makes you wonder how the world is going to be in twenty or thirty years. I believe you should try to be the best possible version of yourself and not try to be somebody else.

Here is a good definition of the word ‘Pretty’ taken from a Katrina Elam song

For beautiful eyes look for the good in someone every day
For a beautiful smile don’t miss a chance to give one away
For beautiful lips say something sweet
And beautiful hands help those in need
That’s what it’s really all about
That’s what makes you pretty
Inside and out

Courtney told me a few months ago she wants to be the Prime Minister and a Veterinarian when she grows up so she can help people and animals. In my opinion these are far more desirable jobs along with the ones I mentioned above than being a porn star. I can only imagine how the parents of porn stars feel when their daughters tell them what career they have chosen. Once again, I am not going to judge but if people are going to base their lives and career solely on their looks they better hope they have something else to fall back on because looks fade and one accident can ruin their career.

My Fiancée was a model but she is multitalented and intelligent. One of the things she often tells me is she likes being recognized for her brain and not just the size of her boobs. She currently works as an artist and a web designer. She can sing, play guitar, piano and bass too. Hailey is one of the smartest women I know and she is so much more than just another pretty face. I think the reason why a lot of women (including Hailey) call porn stars is because of what she said above. They want to be seen for more than their looks and porn stars unwillingly send out the wrong messages to men.

I won’t mind if you split this topic Butterfly Woman. That would probably be a great idea if members want to discuss this subject more as my thread is going off topic. :lol: Getting back to things I should mention Hailey and I are going to see the therapist again tomorrow afternoon. While she is warming to the therapist she still feels uncomfortable talking about some things and refuses to discuss them unless I am in the room with her. We are then going ice skating which is one of her favourite things to do along with shopping. I think Hailey was more high maintenance before she had Courtney but she is very down to earth now.

Thanks for clearing up the other thing Ssandra :lol:

[TinaC]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Would you want him to remain a virgin for the rest of his life for you though? It's not hard to see why people would suggest this, if you really think about it, and include his natural needs in the mix, and not just Haileys. There are two people in the relationship remember, and both their needs are important.

Gary has stated his position in no uncertain terms, and no one is forcing the issue, in fact most here have expressed respect and admiration for his decision...that doesn't mean most people would understand it, not being in that situation. It's a pretty rare scenario I'd say.

I wouldn’t want Gary to remain a virgin for me but I just think he should wait until Hailey is ready to do it instead of having an open relationship. It sounds like she is working on this and I wish him and her good luck and congratulations on their wedding next month.

[ButterflyWoman]

Okay. At the OP's suggestion and because the thread kept going off on the topic of pornography rather than rape recovery and support, I've split off the last few posts. If you want to continue that discussion, please feel free:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/s...es-toward.html

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks for the wedding wishes

I am going to wait until Hailey is ready to do it and I am not going to rush her nor do I have any plans to have an open relationship just so I can lose my virginity. While I appreciate the other members’ suggestions it wouldn’t feel right to me and I know for a fact Hailey wouldn’t be open to the idea. It is not like Hailey is going out having sex with other men while I am getting nothing at all. The love that she gives to me is more than enough and I have no reason to complain. I want to make love to her but I am not going to risk the greatest relationship of my life for something as small as sex.

Hailey and I have something that a lot of people are not lucky enough to find these days and that is true love. We might not have sex but most of Hailey’s friends are always telling us they wish their relationships were more like ours or they could have a relationship similar to ours. We have been together for nearly seven years and our relationship has not grown sour, we have never had one fight and we love spending time together. I’m hoping the addition of sex will make our relationship even better (if that is possible) but don’t think for one second not having it makes me love her less.

I am captivated by this woman. I could literally write a million poems and songs about the way she makes me feel and post them on here but I will try to keep this post short after the length of my last one. I have been told quite a few times I can talk under water but you can trust me when I say if you think I can talk meet my Fiancée. She can talk for hours about any subject in her cute voice and I guess that is one of the things that made me fall in love with her.

We’re Mr and Mrs Have a chat

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I want to make love to her but I am not going to risk the greatest relationship of my life for something as small as sex.

You're a wise man! Sex is small without the deep love you and her share!

[TinaC]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, and hasn't he been saying all through this thread that he won't do anything Hailey isn't comfortable with?

People who spoke of his needs being met were doing so to affirm that his needs are just as important as Hailey's are. Surely you can concede to that. No one is saying he HAS to have his needs met, in fact nearly everyone has been focussing on Hailey's healing throughout this thread...AND some mentioned that it's ok for Gary to have his needs met as well...which some people seem to be happy to place as unimportant compared to Hailey's needs here.

I think it’s a very hard situation for Gary and Hailey and a lot of guys would hate to be in his shoes. I mean most guys wouldn’t last in a relationship for that many years without sex and if I was Hailey I would feel kinda slack for not trying to have sex with him once but we don’t know what she has been through and the way Gary describes it she is still hurting.

He has focused so much on the romantic aspects of their relationship he has pushed his sex drive to the side and that might not be such a bad thing. People put WAY too much emphasis on sex.

I made my boyfriend wait a year before we did it and our relationship is better for it. I trust him more than I did when we met and I know his feelings for me are true.

It’s really hard to find a guy that doesn’t just want to get in your pants. Gary isn’t that type of guy or he wouldn’t be with Hailey. The guy is marrying her next month and he is willing to risk not having sex just to be with her.

It sounds crazy but it sounds kinda sweet too because he must really love Hailey to do this. I don’t see anything bad coming from this and when Hailey is ready it will make their relationship stronger.

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks for the replies again guys.

It has been difficult situation to say the least Tina but Hailey and I are working on it and I believe the therapy sessions have been helping. She has become more open with her feelings lately and she is willing to answer more questions in details which she wouldn’t do before. I think this is because she is starting to trust the therapist and she feels comfortable around her like she does with me. I don’t want her to feel slack because she hasn’t had sex with me because I will wait however long it takes.

I have never had sex before so pushing my sex drive to the side wasn’t hard. All I wanted was to have a relationship on the same level I had with my first girlfriend and with Hailey I have that. I don’t want to take away from my previous relationship but I would say this is even better. I don’t know how to explain this but when I am with her I feel whole and it is like everything in my life is perfectly clear.

When I first met Hailey I was nervous just being around her and I am not the type of guy that usually gets nervous talking to women but for the first few days I made a complete fool out of myself saying stupid things that I didn’t mean to say and for some reason Hailey thought it was cute and she laughed at me quite a few times. I had a huge crush on her and she knew because I blushed like a school boy and I am not embarrassed to admit I still do.

Then we started talking about our lives and I told her about my first girlfriend passing away, my drug addiction, my alcoholism and my problems trusting people. She was the first person I really opened up to and I believe the reason I did was because there was this warmness. We become really close after that and then one day when we were at the zoo she kissed me out of the blue and I wasn’t expecting it. That’s basically when she became my girlfriend and it wasn’t until another two months that I found out she had a daughter because she hid it from me.

Hailey took longer to open up to me but I completely understand why she did and I don’t blame her. She has a lot of problems with men and she doesn’t trust them but she trusts me. She knows I would never do anything to hurt her or compromise the relationship we have. I was broken when we met, a shadow of my former self but she shined her light on me and she saved me from the darkness. She will always be an angel to me and I just want to be the same for her. Hailey has been through a lot to but now she has me and I am doing everything I can to help her

These past six years (seven in January) have been the greatest years of my life.

[RonSouther]

Great Gary! Keep opening up to each other and to wherever people will listen...it's self-healing. I happy for you two!

The beautiful part of life happens after repressed emotions get their day to express themselves. Clear the decks, and watch your intimacy grow to the peak!

[Curious cat]

Hi,

Late to this thread ... But congratulations to you both

I just wanted to throw in the idea of you two having children. Have you discussed this with your fiance'? As this is can be a big issue for some.

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks for the support again Ron. I seem to remember you wrote something about being in a similar relationship to me a few years ago with your wife or ex girlfriend and you broke up with her. I’m not sure if that was you but I hope things are working out for you now mate. I could have left Hailey just to have sex with another woman but that would be a horrible mistake because I would be giving up an amazing relationship and the only woman I can see myself having sex with is her. You can pay for sex if you want it desperately but what you can't buy is a woman's heart.

Sex is meaningless without love to me.

Thanks Curious cat. It’s never too late to join in. Welcome to the party as they say. As a matter of a fact Hailey and I have talked about having children a few times and she was talking about it with me again last night. It's coincidental that you brought that up because Hailey wants to try to have a baby with me before she turns 30 and she would really like to have another girl and a boy. She loves kids and I do too so that is something we have to work on. She is seriously considering trying again and she thinks when we do finally do it I shouldn't worry about wearing protection.

[TinaC]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

It's coincidental that you brought that up because Hailey wants to try to have a baby with me before she turns 30 and she would really like to have another girl and a boy. She loves kids and I do too so that is something we have to work on. She is seriously considering trying again and she thinks when we do finally do it I shouldn't worry about wearing protection.

Wow. That’s a really big move Gary and I kinda think you and Hailey should really think about this before you do it. I mean I understand the girl wanting to have a baby before she turns 30 but I think both of you should have protected sex a few times before you try for a baby.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

Thanks Curious cat. It’s never too late to join in. Welcome to the party as they say. As a matter of a fact Hailey and I have talked about having children a few times and she was talking about it with me again last night. It's coincidental that you brought that up because Hailey wants to try to have a baby with me before she turns 30 and she would really like to have another girl and a boy. She loves kids and I do too so that is something we have to work on. She is seriously considering trying again and she thinks when we do finally do it I shouldn't worry about wearing protection.

Nature is in control buddy! Trust it! Her mind is having the problem with sex....a fear...but by nature she is still a sexual being whether for love or for babies.

Help her to express herself so that her mind can let go. Then what is left is her true being that adores you and is sexual.

I love these quotes about letting go.... "Letting Go"...A Beautiful Quote and The Heart of Profound-Self-Help.com

[GaryMichaels]

I believe the best thing I can do is leave the decision to Hailey. If we do have sex and Hailey doesn’t feel comfortable doing it again there is a chance she might get pregnant and we would have a baby. Of course there are other ways Hailey could have a baby without us having sex but we have already discussed them and Hailey wants to get pregnant the natural way.

Hailey has told me numerous times that she wants to have sex with me but she just isn’t ready yet. I know how much she loves me and I only have to look into her eyes to see that because she looks at me the same way I look at her. Ron, you’re right. Nature is in control and when the day comes when she is ready and willing to do it I have no doubt we will have sex. We have come close a few times but Hailey has freaked out and pulled away. When she does that she gets worried she has offended me and we usually spend a lot of time hugging each other. She doesn’t offend me at all but it does upset me watching her like that.

Thanks for the quotes mate.

[AllTogetherNow]

just read this entire thread and wow! what an amazing journey, and a strong dedication to healing and rising above 'being forever stuck' in past trauma. Gary i really admire your committment and clarity. And although you of course don't know me from Adam, nonetheless i find myself wishing you both an effective journey to healing, and to fully realizing your togetherness in a complete and fulfiiling way - whatever that is for you and your fiancee.

everything else i thought while reading has already been said, however i feel compelled to reply to this statement:

I think both of you should have protected sex a few times before you try for a baby.

imho, that really has no bearing on the situation as it has been stated and explained here by Gary. what i get from this thread, is two people who are deeply committed to each other, to healing what's broken in each of them individually, and as a committed couple; so they can move forward in their life journeys and create a family together

so why on earth would anyone think that fully-engaged sexual communion (if & when that time is right) would not be advisable for such a couple? there's no chance here for STD's, and their stated intention is creation of a family.

and yes, the poster said only "I think this" - which is of course their right and freedom to express - but imho that particular piece of just struck me as really odd, and ill-fitting to the context that Gary has shared with us.

[GaryMichaels]

Thank you All Together Now

The reason for my unconditional commitment to Hailey is because I love her. I will be honest, when I first found out about Hailey’s problems with sex and that she was raped there was a part of me that was slightly disappointed that we weren’t making love but I thought about it and I realised I would be absolutely stupid to complain because I had a wonderful woman in love with me and we liked the same things and we were alike in many ways. When I asked her to marry me I made the decision that sex wasn’t going to change the way I felt about her because her love alone was enough.

I still feel the same way about this now and if we never have sex I will not leave her because we have unconditional love and that is something you can’t find in a store. When I think about that and who I want to spend the rest of my life with I know without a doubt it is Hailey and our daughter. The issue of not having sex isn’t something that is worrying me anymore because Hailey has assured me that we will do it someday soon and I believe her. I will wait however long it takes for that day when she is ready and I will not stray. I want Hailey to be my one and only and she thinks that is romantic.

I am definitely not worried about getting a sexually transmitted disease from Hailey because I know she does not have one. One of the first things she did after she got raped was got tested for that and she has not had sex in over eight years. I don’t have a problem having sex with her without using any protection and from what I have heard it is supposed to feel better without it anyway. The main idea of us having sex without me wearing a condom is to have a baby so I have nothing to worry about. I don’t see what the use of having protected sex a few times before we try for a baby is either as it is not like we can’t have sex again if she gets pregnant. That statement confused me too.

I want Hailey to have a baby

[Hannu Lombard]

Thats awseome, be responsible.. you knew about this from the start.
Did she try hypnotherapy before?.

[Curious cat]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

I want Hailey to have a baby

Sounds awesome. Good luck gazza, i hope you guys have your bouncing bundle of joy soon

[TinaC]

Originally Posted by AllTogetherNow;1029658imho, that really has no bearing on the situation as it has been stated and explained here by Gary. what i get from this thread, is two people who are deeply committed to each other, to healing what's broken in each of them individually, [I

and[/I] as a committed couple; so they can move forward in their life journeys and create a family together

so why on earth would anyone think that fully-engaged sexual communion (if & when that time is right) would not be advisable for such a couple? there's no chance here for STD's, and their stated intention is creation of a family.

and yes, the poster said only "I think this" - which is of course their right and freedom to express - but imho that particular piece of just struck me as really odd, and ill-fitting to the context that Gary has shared with us.

I just meant they should spend some time getting to know each other sexually before they rush into having a baby. Having a baby is a big thing and they don’t even know if they are sexually compatible. Gary said earlier he was afraid he was asexual. I don't think he is because he said he wants to have sex with Hailey but how does he know she isn't?

The gal hasn’t had sex in over 8 years. I mean that’s a REALLY long time for anyone to go without having sex and I kinda can’t help thinking maybe fear isn’t her only problem. Maybe she doesn’t like sex and I hope for Gary’s sake that she does because it would be awful if they had it and Gary liked it but Hailey didn’t.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by TinaC

I just meant they should spend some time getting to know each other sexually before they rush into having a baby. Having a baby is a big thing and they don’t even know if they are sexually compatible. Gary said earlier he was afraid he was asexual. I don't think he is because he said he wants to have sex with Hailey but how does he know she isn't?

The gal hasn’t had sex in over 8 years. I mean that’s a REALLY long time for anyone to go without having sex and I kinda can’t help thinking maybe fear isn’t her only problem. Maybe she doesn’t like sex and I hope for Gary’s sake that she does because it would be awful if they had it and Gary liked it but Hailey didn’t.

I hear you, and I do think that for most typical relationships it would be the advisable course of action. But Gary has already made clear that his relationship is atypical, that he's fine with it and that he wants to work within these parameters. I say good for him!

Also, I tend to think that being on birth control against your desire (because you want to be pregnant, for instance) would be counter productive to a healthy, enthusiastic sex life. That's on top of the physical effects that hormonal BC has on libido, if she chose to go that way. According to Gary, Hailey is already not starting with the easiest conditions, she doesn't need another barrier. A desire to get pregnant could actually be the trigger they need to start on the route of a happy sex life.

[GaryMichaels]

Thanks for the replies Hannu Lombard, Curious Cat, TinaC and aelle.

When I first joined this forum I never thought I was going to get this many replies so I would just like to thank all the members that have replied to this thread as you have been very helpful. My Fiancée and I will be getting married at the end of next week and even though we have never had sex I have never been this in love with somebody. I love Hailey with all my heart and soul and the past six years (almost seven) with her and Courtney have been some of the best years of my life.

I did not know about this from the start Hannu Lombard and only found out later in our relationship. By then I had already fallen in love with her and when I think about it now it wouldn’t have made a difference if she had told me when we were just friends. I understand why she didn’t though just like I understand why she kept her daughter hidden from me for a few months too but I gained her trust and that is what is important. She says I am the first guy she has ever loved. She has never tried any hypnotherapy before but she is currently seeing a therapist and I think that has been helping her.

Originally Posted by Curious cat

Sounds awesome. Good luck gazza, i hope you guys have your bouncing bundle of joy soon

I am too. I am hoping we could try again on our wedding night or our honeymoon as that would be a romantic time but I am not going to keep my expectations too high. If we finally did it after all these years then it would be incredible, however, I would be just as happy holding and kissing her. Some nights we fall asleep snuggling each other talking and I melt in her arms. I can see it in her eyes, hear the sound of her heart beating and feel how much she loves me. Apparently I’m her teddy bear.

Hailey and I have already made up our decision about this Tina and while I appreciate the advice we don’t need any time to get to know each other sexually before we have a child. I have discussed this with Hailey because I have had my own fears of being bad in bed. Being a virgin, I’m not sure how I am going to be but she thinks I don’t have to worry about that because when the time is right things will fall into place. I realise having a baby is a big thing but Hailey and I are ready for it. We already have Courtney so it is not like we are going into this without any experience with children.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by GaryMichaels

she is currently seeing a therapist and I think that has been helping her.

I am happy for her! Nobody should live with a trauma when there can be work done about it!!

I am too. I am hoping we could try again on our wedding night or our honeymoon as that would be a romantic time but I am not going to keep my expectations too high.

If I may make a suggestion?

The wedding night will most likely not happen. Because of all the stress and happy hormones and maybe some alcohol and the dancing and the being around both families and lots of people the entire day and evening.... you both will most likely be exhausted. I would suggest just cuddling and falling asleep in each others arms

(I would suggest that to any couple actually, who never had sex before the wedding... the first time should be when you are both well rested and can really enjoy yourself. Not when you are exhausted and half asleep and all the stress hormones are still going through your body...)

Another good thing (although frustrating for you) might be for you to lie still on the bed (naked) and let her explore your body completely. Without you touching her, or moving or doing anything. Letting her be completely in control. (although, after the wedding night, not at the wedding night).

Another technique that might work for the both of you is setting a schedule you both are comfortable with. For example, if she is only slightly uncomfortable with you touching her breasts, kiss her until she is turned on, and then touch her there, lightly. Whenever she feels uncomfortable, take your hands away, but don't stop kissing. And do it again and again, until she doesn't feel uncomfortable anymore with being touched there. Continue doing this for a couple of days until not only she doesn't feel uncomfortable, she can actually enjoy herself without any secondary thoughts.

Once at that stage, move on to the second step. Which doesn't necessarily need to be her genitals. It could simply be her belly, or upper tights. Go at the pace that she feels comfortable at!

Of course, very important with any of this is that you agree beforehand, especially with the second technique. Because she needs to be ok with the fact that you will try again and again, although you will stop the second she tells you to stop.

The reason why this will work is that over the years (and starting from the rape) she has build up a very strong negative anchor towards being touched and sex. What you both now need to do is to change that anchor from a negative one to a positive one. Therefor, being turned on = touching her means also touching her = being turned on. That will (with repeated action) eliminate the negative anchor.

(there is also a technique called collapsing anchors that would work very well on this. But I suggest talking to an NLP practitioner in person for this to work, because I believe that this anchor might be so strong that it could back fire if you try to do it at once).

All of this requires concentrated effort for the both of you of course. But believe me that having sex with the person you love makes it all worth it.

For Hailey herself... it will be a way of reclaiming her body. At this moment, her rapist still holds her body hostage, she still is reminded of him every time she tries with you. And that is not right. It is her body and it is there for her to enjoy. She has the right to reclaim her body and I think it is time for her to do so...


(and I really hope that on your honey moon you also have some time for the both of you together, without your child? Although adorable, lovely and amazing..... you may want to spend some time together as well, just being silly in love, without a child to watch over).

[TinaC]

This might be a tad personal hun so if you don't feel comfortable answering it it's totally alright but I was kinda wondering how close have you and Hailey come to having sex like how intimate have you got with each other when you have been making out.

What parts of her body is she okay with you touching and what parts is she not? Does Hailey feel comfortable being naked when she is with you or does she try to cover up?

I only ask ‘cause I think you need to identify these spots and work on them before you have sex then slowly build your way to the other areas. You said Hailey feels uncomfortable when you touch down there but does she feel uncomfortable with you touching her breasts?

If you have showers together you could have fun exploring each other’s bodies by taking turns washing each other.

[Danisoov]

She needs to learn how to turn the images of her rape "black" block them out of her mind. Trick her brain into producing amnesia for the traumatic events. I've been in a lot of traumatic experiences and I did this to all of them. Maya Angelou has a great book, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. That book illustrates how the character got over her rape. Also clonapins helped me get over a lot of my problems, however I wish I had only been prescribed them for a few months, not 2 years. Those pills REALLY made me forget. Don't let her drive a car if she is prescribed them. I can't tell you how many times I crashed taking them!

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Danisoov

I've been in a lot of traumatic experiences and I did this to all of them.

Whatever works for you. I've found that it was much better to acknowledge my traumas (and there have been many, starting from a very young age) and release them.

In any event, Gary and Hailey are undergoing counselling, so I suspect they'll be allowing the therapist to be the guide.

[GaryMichaels]

Thank you for your advice Ssandra. I will definitely take this under consideration and discuss some of it with Hailey too as I think we could both benefit from it. I believe the only way we are going to have sex or make love (as Hailey calls it) is if we take things slow and I don’t want to do anything that will make her feel uncomfortable. Touching Hailey’s breasts has never been a big problem and it is only if I start touching them in a sexual manner for too long that she freaks out. Sometimes she will put my hands on them when she is sitting on my lap or let me rest my head on them when we are in bed.

The problem is situated below the waist and Hailey becomes very freaked out and backs away if she has the slightest impression I am going to touch her there. When we tried to make love in the past this was always the main thing that stopped us. I think the technique that described might be very helpful and I am willing to do it for as long as it takes to make her comfortable. I won’t be touching her below as the second step as I think that will be too early but I will work on other parts of her body as you have mentioned and if it works I will eventually move down but only if it works.

She actually likes it when I touch her belly and when we have been playing around wrestling on the bed I have blew raspberries on it which often makes her laugh. Hailey feels comfortable being naked around me and she is comfortable with me being naked around her. We shower together sometimes and if she is feeling hot some nights she will sleep topless in bed. We have washed each other a few times but not our private parts. I don’t want to give away too many personal details as I prefer most of this stuff kept between me and Hailey but if anybody has a question feel free to ask it.

To be honest, I wasn’t expecting her to be ready for our wedding night and when you describe it that way it probably isn’t the best time for a couple like us to do it. I thought the sound of making love on our wedding night was romantic but I probably should have thought about the stress and the happy hormones. We both don’t drink so alcohol won’t be a problem but red soft drink might be. We will have some time to ourselves on our honeymoon but Hailey doesn’t like to leave Courtney for too long so she will be with us most of the time. She is very protective of her and rarely lets her out of her sight.

Thanks too Danisoov but from what Hailey’s therapist has been telling her blocking out her past is a bad thing and I think she basically wants her to face her demons and release them. Again, I think the therapist had been very helpful as Hailey has been expressing herself a lot lately and she has been more open about her past than she was before. It still upsets her talking about it though.

[TinaC]

Just how protective is Hailey with her daughter? Do you think her protectiveness is stemmed from rape? It's kinda not my place to tell you and Hailey how to raise her daughter but an overprotective mother is never a good thing.

[MessyJenny]

please do not marry someone who will not have sex with you

you will eventually be forced to commit adultery

even if you don't admit it to yourself, sex is an important component of a healthy marriage

as a side note ?

my husband ex-wife had a similar experience. she hates all men, and raised her children to hate all men

don't get into a relationship that is doomed for failure or cheating from the start

i am a christian woman, and i feel for you

however, it is not fair to her if you continue to encourage this fear of hers. what i mean by that, as a therapist myself, is that you continue to accept NO CHANGES in this regard, then she will NEVER CHANGE

because

you have given her the hint it is OK by continuing with the marriage plans

have you seen a sex therapist ? someone who specializes in this particular field ?

see the links below

peace

AASECT :: American Association of Sex Counselors, Educators & Therapists

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/g…

SEX PHOBIA? Immediate Expert Help for Sex Phobia