Religion and Family

[Leather Husack]

OK, so this is my first post. The name is Adam Huie. Nice to meet you all. I just now made my way to the forums after reading various articles on Steve's site. I'm a huge fan of his blog as I'm sure many of you are. But anyways, enough of that lol. I'm posting this to hopefully find some advice or opinions on a situation.

I'm 18 years old and all of my life, I have went to a southern baptist church. My junior year in high school came around and I was introduced to the concept of evolution in my Biology class. I had heard of it plenty before, but of course was always told it's not real. Well, in Biology, we had a wonderful teacher, and with my top interest always being with animals, I had high regards for the class. When the evolution section came around, I tried to be open minded about and eventually found myself believing it. I still strongly believe in evolution to this day. But that obviously counter acts the story in genesis of Adam and Eve. After a lot of thinking, I finally decided that, knowing the bible had been written many times over, and being written by mere people capable of mistakes, there had to be some flaw in the bible.

The evidence of evolution had been shown to me and I knew it was true. After deciding the bible wasn't completely right, I quit using the King James Version, and eventually even said I was no longer baptist, but merely a christian in general. Over time, that led to being agnostic, and now I simply say I have no religion, but rather decide what I believe to be real in life. I also read the an article on Steve's site that helped me come to this decision This all started from believing evolution and questioning everything I knew to be true. That is pretty much the story of how I think of religion today. I highly agree with Steve's view on religion and have found many examples of it in my own life.

So, finally lol, my situation is that my parents have no idea of any of this. They are very strong Baptist Christian and have absolutely no idea of any of this. When I was a christian, I even "got saved" and so that's just kinda pushing along against everything. I'm now a freshman in college working towards a Biology degree. What would you do in this situation or what suggestions do you have for me? I know I can't keep it a secret from them forever, because when I move out, there is no way I'm going to church at all. That is gonna be a very large hint. So eventually I will have to tell them. Should I just wait until I'm moved out, but I have a feeling if I told them, there's a chance they might kick me out. I have a car, but as of right now, no job. Or anywhere to go if I was kicked out. Anyone got any suggestions?

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

I still strongly believe in evolution to this day. But that obviously counter acts the story in genesis of Adam and Eve.

It may be obvious to you, but it's far from obvious to most people. Even the majority of Christians don't see a problem with it. It's basically in how you interpret the allegorical and metaphorical Creation story. If you take it literally (and, honestly, it's got a talking snake in it and the entire planet was populated by people marrying their own siblings, so how literal could it really be?!), yeah, you could have a problem with it. But the majority of people don't take it literally, and don't experience a conflict between "God made everything" and "evolution".

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

Should I just wait until I'm moved out, but I have a feeling if I told them, there's a chance they might kick me out.

Jesus would be so proud of their loving attitude.

Honestly, in your situtation, I'd just keep quiet about it until you're able to support yourself. Once you have the degree and you're on your own, you can do or not do what you want, and if your parents want to disown you then, well, it's their loss.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by CaterpillarWoman

Jesus would be so proud of their loving attitude.

Honestly, in your situtation, I'd just keep quiet about it until you're able to support yourself. Once you have the degree and you're on your own, you can do or not do what you want, and if your parents want to disown you then, well, it's their loss.

I'd probably say the same. I told my parents, sort of, long story. Bad idea, I mean, welcome to hell. It does depend on your parents as individuals, obviously, and on the type of relationship you want to have with them.

Is there anyway you can live separately while pursuing your goals? That seems like it would be ideal, though I know it can be hard to pull off.

And your post, OP, would be a lot easier to read with paragraphs. I bet you'd get more responses.

[Brutha]

Are you still going to church every sunday?

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by CaterpillarWoman

It may be obvious to you, but it's far from obvious to most people. Even the majority of Christians don't see a problem with it. It's basically in how you interpret the allegorical and metaphorical Creation story. If you take it literally (and, honestly, it's got a talking snake in it and the entire planet was populated by people marrying their own siblings, so how literal could it really be?!), yeah, you could have a problem with it. But the majority of people don't take it literally, and don't experience a conflict between "God made everything" and "evolution".

Yea, I realized that. It's amazing what people will believe without thinking for themselves. lol. But my parents are definitely against evolution. I always wondered about how they thought my takes on evolution are. I guess they never really thought about it that much. But I am majoring in Biology, so you would think they would make some sort of connection there.

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Is there anyway you can live separately while pursuing your goals? That seems like it would be ideal, though I know it can be hard to pull off.

And your post, OP, would be a lot easier to read with paragraphs. I bet you'd get more responses.

I do have the opportunity to move out with some friends next year. Friends who I could actually trust enough to live with.

And, about the paragraph thing, when I got done with it I realized it was probably getting long, but I didn't feel like going back and separating it out. lol

Originally Posted by Brutha

Are you still going to church every sunday?

Well for the past few months, they stopped going to our normal church. Didn't like the pastor anymore and for a few other reasons. They kinda lazily looked for a new church (and by that I mean we only went to like 3 new churches lol). But they recently found a church with a pastor who used to go to our other church and they seem to like him, so I'd say that will probably be their church of choice.

[nishu]

well according to me there should be a balance between religion and family you cant be too much into religion that you forget about family and same is that you are very much into family that you forget religion there should be a balance.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by nishu

well according to me there should be a balance between religion and family you cant be too much into religion that you forget about family and same is that you are very much into family that you forget religion there should be a balance.

I agree. But I also have an understanding of their beliefs as christians. To them, if they knew I did not believe in "God" then that would be the same as me saying to them that, what they believe is not real and that they are fools to believe it. Which I do find it a bit silly to believe that some man in the sky created us out of nothing just to amuse himself. But people have the right to believe what they want. But to christians, if you don't believe what they believe, you wrong and your going to hell, plain and simple. There isn't any leeway given, which throws out any possible balance between religion and family.

[Clint Cora]

This is a tough one. Ultimately, I don't think any of us can decide for you since we don't know how your parents would react as well as you would. Since you are still staying under their roof, I would say you have to at least 'pretend' to live by their rules. Once you are out, you can live anyway you choose.

Unless you have parents who are very understanding and tolerant, you might not want to rock the boat while still at home for now. But then again, only you would be the best judge of this. In some cases, parents who are quite tolerant, would allow their kids at home to have different viewpoints as long as their are law abiding citizens.

But in other cases, as with many ethnic families and their religious beliefs for example, there could be big trouble if the kids were openly against their parents' beliefs. We've had a few extreme cases here in Canada where parents were involved in so-called 'mercy killings' of their daughters because they wanted to live like other Canadian kids rather than under the more strict upbringing of their family ways.

So you have to be the judge on how your own parents would react if you were to be open to them about your own position right now. If it's only a temporary blip at the most that you predict, then it might be okay. However, if you foresee much more trouble and conflict within the house, then it might be a wiser decision to keep things quiet until the day you are free to move on your own. Neither case of course is great but at least one is better than the other for the time being.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

This is a tough one. Ultimately, I don't think any of us can decide for you since we don't know how your parents would react as well as you would. Since you are still staying under their roof, I would say you have to at least 'pretend' to live by their rules. Once you are out, you can live anyway you choose.

Unless you have parents who are very understanding and tolerant, you might not want to rock the boat while still at home for now. But then again, only you would be the best judge of this. In some cases, parents who are quite tolerant, would allow their kids at home to have different viewpoints as long as their are law abiding citizens.

But in other cases, as with many ethnic families and their religious beliefs for example, there could be big trouble if the kids were openly against their parents' beliefs. We've had a few extreme cases here in Canada where parents were involved in so-called 'mercy killings' of their daughters because they wanted to live like other Canadian kids rather than under the more strict upbringing of their family ways.

So you have to be the judge on how your own parents would react if you were to be open to them about your own position right now. If it's only a temporary blip at the most that you predict, then it might be okay. However, if you foresee much more trouble and conflict within the house, then it might be a wiser decision to keep things quiet until the day you are free to move on your own. Neither case of course is great but at least one is better than the other for the time being.

Thanks. It probably is safer to keep things quiet for now. I have been doing that for quite some time now, but I just wanted to know what other people would suggest I do. I guess now I know. Thanks for the advice

[ZephyrusX]

I'm an atheist and find that belief plays a major part of my life. I think it plays a major part in everyone's life, actually. The nature of the belief may differ from person to person, but at its core, it still involves blind faith that goes beyond rationality or empiricism. I blindly believe in the goodness and potential of people. Besides the crazy Bible stories, I also don't know with absolute certainty that there isn't some form of God. I just believe there isn't and focus on humanism instead as that system of belief renders my perception of the world simpler and manageable. I also wrestle with doubt, some times.

I think it is possible for atheists and theists to find common ground in their lives. Unfortunately, most people prefer to look at the differences and shoot the other person down for their own self-purposes. But we can aspire to connect with others and try to lead by example.

When you do have this talk with your parents, do you think they would be willing to connect with you on the similarities between your belief systems?

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

I agree. But I also have an understanding of their beliefs as christians. To them, if they knew I did not believe in "God" then that would be the same as me saying to them that, what they believe is not real and that they are fools to believe it. Which I do find it a bit silly to believe that some man in the sky created us out of nothing just to amuse himself. But people have the right to believe what they want. But to christians, if you don't believe what they believe, you wrong and your going to hell, plain and simple. There isn't any leeway given, which throws out any possible balance between religion and family.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

When you do have this talk with your parents, do you think they would be willing to connect with you on the similarities between your belief systems?

I agree. And I can understand why they choose to be christians. After all, I was there once. Judging from this thread, I'll probably wait and tel them after I am able to support myself and can live on my own, or at least not live under their household.

The main reason for this is because, no they won't be willing to connect and accept my beliefs. They are strong christians and won't settle for anything else. Which is kind of upsetting considering they are my parents after all. I do love them, but unfortunately I probably won't be very close to them after moving out and telling them my own beliefs.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by nishu

well according to me there should be a balance between religion and family you cant be too much into religion that you forget about family and same is that you are very much into family that you forget religion there should be a balance.

As the OP's experience shows this isn't true. As human beings we have a tendency to associate with others who are similar ideologically. So there's a natural tendency to discriminate and separate in us. When you add religion into the mix, you're conflating ideology with dogma and more often than not discouraging critical thought. The result is unnecessary suffering not only for the religious but for everyone else. Here we have a rational adolescent going through difficulties because her (his?) parents refuse to accept him as (s)he is, without sharing their beliefs.

I think you may be meaning that values should be taught in families, but those aren't the property of religious organizations.

[ZephyrusX]

That is too bad. I have some family members that I won't share certain aspects of my life with as well. I can more or less work around it now since I don't live near them, but it is still a icky feeling to think that their continued interaction and love is conditioned upon certain factors.

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

The main reason for this is because, no they won't be willing to connect and accept my beliefs. They are strong christians and won't settle for anything else. Which is kind of upsetting considering they are my parents after all. I do love them, but unfortunately I probably won't be very close to them after moving out and telling them my own beliefs.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

That is too bad. I have some family members that I won't share certain aspects of my life with as well. I can more or less work around it now since I don't live near them, but it is still a icky feeling to think that their continued interaction and love is conditioned upon certain factors.

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. It's why I disowned my father's half of the family when I was old enough to change my name. That's not love, it's submission. Either people accept me as I am or they have no place in my life, it doesn't matter if we share the same blood.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

I agree. And I can understand why they choose to be christians. After all, I was there once. Judging from this thread, I'll probably wait and tel them after I am able to support myself and can live on my own, or at least not live under their household.

The main reason for this is because, no they won't be willing to connect and accept my beliefs. They are strong christians and won't settle for anything else. Which is kind of upsetting considering they are my parents after all. I do love them, but unfortunately I probably won't be very close to them after moving out and telling them my own beliefs.

The contingency I would add is don't compromise too much.

I come from a religiously conservative home, and I'd pretty much decided I was done with Christianity at 16. I had already moved away from my parents' variety of Christianity when I was 15. I had no desire to keep going to church and I felt like I was compromising something very important to me every time I did so without objecting but I kept at it to keep the peace. I also maintained my involvement in various ministries to avoid suspicion.

The result is that I took part in teaching children the same dogmas I learned. I proselytized something I not only disbelieved but which disgusted me on a very deep level. I spent years getting over the guilt of playing a role in indoctrinating others the same way I had been, and all to avoid conflict.

It wasn't worth it. Not by a longshot. I maintained the peace and I had a guaranteed roof over my head but I lost a lot of self-respect and I've only recently healed from that.

Telling them what you think might seem like a stupid idea at first, and it could make your life hellish in the short term, but sometimes that's worth it. Whatever you do, don't compromise who you really are.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Here we have a rational adolescent going through difficulties because her (his?) parents refuse to accept him as (s)he is, without sharing their beliefs.

I stated in the begining of the post, my name is Adam, so (he)

Originally Posted by Cado

Telling them what you think might seem like a stupid idea at first, and it could make your life hellish in the short term, but sometimes that's worth it. Whatever you do, don't compromise who you really are.

I do want them to know who I really am, but I'm starting to think that now is not the time or place to tell them. I've just started college, getting started and used to that, plus, I'm still living under their roof, and technically being 18, they have every right to kick my out if they so choose. It just doesnt seem to be a safe thing to do right now. However, I definitely do plan on telling them eventually.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Cado

Either people accept me as I am or they have no place in my life, it doesn't matter if we share the same blood.

YES. Yes, yes, yes. That's exactly how I feel about it, and it's part of why I no longer speak to my parents and haven't for years. Shared genetics and some shared history doesn't give you a free ticket to smother me with your attitudes.

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

I've just started college, getting started and used to that, plus, I'm still living under their roof, and technically being 18, they have every right to kick my out if they so choose. It just doesnt seem to be a safe thing to do right now.

I agree with this assessment, for what it's worth. This is a good time to star preparing yourself for their eventual rejection when you do tell them.

For what it's worth, I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I wish that nobody ever had to face parents who were going to reject them for having different beliefs or different sexual orientation or different political views (that happens, believe it or not), or just being different in general. It sucks, to put it bluntly, but, unfortunately, that's the way human beings are, so there's no point railing against it. Just know that I feel for you.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by CaterpillarWoman

It sucks, to put it bluntly, but, unfortunately, that's the way human beings are, so there's no point railing against it. Just know that I feel for you.

Thanks. It does suck, but as long as I've been hiding it now, I'm getting used to it. I'm just trying to prepare for telling them and whats to come.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

I do want them to know who I really am, but I'm starting to think that now is not the time or place to tell them. I've just started college, getting started and used to that, plus, I'm still living under their roof, and technically being 18, they have every right to kick my out if they so choose. It just doesnt seem to be a safe thing to do right now. However, I definitely do plan on telling them eventually.

Ask yourself: how much value is there in the safe path?

You've just started college, meaning you don't have a whole lot of time and money invested yet. It's entirely feasible for you to get a job that would let you support yourself in an apartment with a roomate and be able to pay down whatever debts you've accumulated thus far. Can't afford school on your own? Drop out and go later. There are countless resources you can use to establish a substantial income without a degree, in fact studying Tim Ferriss' blog would be a huge boon in that regard, and I'd start with 8 Steps to Getting What You Want Without Formal Credentials.

I'd then move onto The 4-Hour Workweek and Never Get a Real Job, then books that are focused on something you're particularly passionate about or, regardless of your feelings toward it, you've decided you want to pursue.

It's a lot cheaper to go to a year or two-year tech school and learn mechanics or plumbing than it is to get a college degree, and while you may not have any interest in maintaining those skills as longterm careers they pay way better than minimum wage and you have something practical you can always fall back on, something that can't be outsourced and never will be.

That's just the tip of the ice berg. With so many options available to you I have to ask if it's worth it to stay in an emotionally toxic environment while you work on school or would you be better off getting out of there and building the life you want with your own hands? Because the more dependent you are on someone else the more constrained your actions are and that will impede the realization and expression of who you are no matter how you play it. Is that worth it?

Give it some thought.

[SireneB]

Adam, I went through the same thing my first year in college, and was living at home at the time. Raised Conservative Baptist, which was pretty restrictive (seriously, in high school, the "bad" kids snuck playing cards to church camp because playing card games was evil).

I waited to say anything until I was ready to move out ... but I did move out with a bang my sophomore year (moved in with a boyfriend - I still remember that conversation, "Chris, the nice girl who plays piano?" "No, Chris the nice boy who plays flute."). My younger siblings still talk about the ensuing fireworks - but on the other hand, I paved the way for them to rebel in their own ways. In the meanwhile, before moving out, I just distanced myself from church as much as possible (it's midterms, up late studying Saturday night, sorry, can't go Sunday morning, stuff like that). But one thing I was then and still am, is respectful of other people's religious beliefs, even though I don't agree with them. So there was no big fallout about who was right and who was wrong, it was more that this is my path and what I need to do.

Which course you take probably depends on how much of a risk taker you are, as well as how disruptive it might be to your studies - if your grades are solid, you can take more risks in that regard, but as a freshman, you want to have the best possible first year in school to set a tone for the rest of your time.

I did want to speak to one other thing. In your posts, you make a lot of assumptions about your parents - assumptions from your experience with them and with the church, but nonetheless, assumptions. What I found was that after a rocky year or two, my parents came to respect me for who I am. And fast forward several decades, and my now-widowed mom has told me many times that she considers my most religious sibling a little bit "off" in that regard, and that she trusts my judgment more than any of my other siblings (who are all still religious to various degrees). She herself considers herself a Christian but only goes to church a few times a year now - big difference from the 3-4 times a week when we were kids.

My point with that is, when the time comes to tell them, be who you are but be respectful of them to the extent possible; you don't know what chinks they may have in their dogma and down the road, you could be an influence on them in that regard.

Good luck with this.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by SireneB

But one thing I was then and still am, is respectful of other people's religious beliefs, even though I don't agree with them.

I remain respectful as well because I believed the same things at one point in my life. I also have really close friends who have differences in beliefs.

Originally Posted by SireneB

I did want to speak to one other thing. In your posts, you make a lot of assumptions about your parents - assumptions from your experience with them and with the church, but nonetheless, assumptions. What I found was that after a rocky year or two, my parents came to respect me for who I am.

Good luck with this.

I suppose the assumptions is just because I'm afraid of it. It's going to be awkward to say the least, especially since I would be moving out at the same time. The people I would move out with if everything works out are friends I can trust. But all three of us have very similar views in religion. Neither of them go to church, and my parents know that. So when I tell them I will be moving in with them, well, I can imagine their reactions. My Mom I'm not so worried about, but my Dad is a stubborn man lol. I'm sure after getting used to the thought of me not being the christian they think I've always been, everything will ease down some. Again, I'm just nervous about the whole idea of it. But that won't stop me from telling them.

[Leather Husack]

Originally Posted by Cado

Ask yourself: how much value is there in the safe path?

You've just started college, meaning you don't have a whole lot of time and money invested yet. It's entirely feasible for you to get a job that would let you support yourself in an apartment with a roomate and be able to pay down whatever debts you've accumulated thus far. Can't afford school on your own? Drop out and go later. There are countless resources you can use to establish a substantial income without a degree, in fact studying Tim Ferriss' blog would be a huge boon in that regard, and I'd start with 8 Steps to Getting What You Want Without Formal Credentials.

I'd then move onto The 4-Hour Workweek and Never Get a Real Job, then books that are focused on something you're particularly passionate about or, regardless of your feelings toward it, you've decided you want to pursue.

It's a lot cheaper to go to a year or two-year tech school and learn mechanics or plumbing than it is to get a college degree, and while you may not have any interest in maintaining those skills as longterm careers they pay way better than minimum wage and you have something practical you can always fall back on, something that can't be outsourced and never will be.

That's just the tip of the ice berg. With so many options available to you I have to ask if it's worth it to stay in an emotionally toxic environment while you work on school or would you be better off getting out of there and building the life you want with your own hands? Because the more dependent you are on someone else the more constrained your actions are and that will impede the realization and expression of who you are no matter how you play it. Is that worth it?

Give it some thought.

As far as college, I know where I stand on that. It's the best possible place for me to be right now. And I agree that the "toxic environment" isn't the best thing right now, but I don't think I will be in it much longer. As of right now though, it's probably better for me to stay here. They've been helping me out quite a bit through college, and it's just not the time for a dispute.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Leather Husack

As far as college, I know where I stand on that. It's the best possible place for me to be right now. And I agree that the "toxic environment" isn't the best thing right now, but I don't think I will be in it much longer. As of right now though, it's probably better for me to stay here. They've been helping me out quite a bit through college, and it's just not the time for a dispute.

There's never a good time.

Maybe jumping in feet first is a bad idea but if so sit down, make a plan, set dates, and get to work, otherwise time will get away on you and you'll be stuck without knowing how you got there. It's easy to make excuses when the only solution is to act.