Nothing seems worth talking about - help

[nistacular]

So, before I explain the details of my problem, let me just explain a bit about myself. I'm a 19 year old, half Hispanic male. I'm from a very loving family. I have an older brother who is just slightly better than me at many things, and we've always been somewhat competitive, at least in my mind. I don't know what he thinks about it. Because of this, I've always tried to compensate in various different ways throughout my life. I've tried getting good at things I don't particularly care about, I've tried being more empathetic. But it's gotten to the point where maybe I've started to lose my natural voice, my own personality. And maybe this has nothing to do with my brother but it seems like that's where it started.

Now, I'll talk about my problems with socializing, that may or may not stem from this... I keep trying to relate to people. It seems like the only thing worth talking about is with the eventual goal to make friends with them or to show them respect/love. I've always been somewhat of an emotional guy, but it's starting to not even feel natural for me and yet I still do it. Like I ran into this nice elderly man (he was a janitor) in the elevator of my apartment today. He looked at me, smiled, and said "you're the violinist right?", making gestures with his hand. Apparently he can hear me practice violin. Then he tells me he is a composer of jazz and other music. I say something like "that's really cool, what do you compose?" and I try to make the conversation about him. I keep doing that with everyone, and always have and it makes me so frustrated, because it turns so many people off. And now I'm thinking maybe it's not even worth it. But it's as if I have no personality to back it up. Also sometimes I bring my voice to a higher pitch as if to convey sympathy (I don't even think about this most of the time). I did this near the end of our conversation while say "okay cool, I'll check it out have a nice day!" or something, and he looked like I was mocking him and turned away but I really wasn't! I just don't know how to talk to people..., maybe I'm just uninteresting. I feel like this is a problem more woman have than men, but if anyone can help me I would be grateful.

[nistacular]

And I should add, I'm very affected by this sometimes... it makes me feel so uncomfortable. It's hard to even identify what emotion I'm feeling. Also, whenever anyone else shows emotion, I feel the need to match that emotion. Why do I do that??? I just can't be myself right now.

[Canadian]

Here's my thoughts, maybe I'm wrong:

I think you've created a bind for yourself. It seems you've already recognized that wanting people to like you has made you act unnatural which pushes people away. The bind is that any effort spent forcing yourself into being more natural will not work because to be relaxed/natural in a conversation is the same as not be placing effort on it. So the only way to act natural is to not care how the conversation turns out, to not care what they think of you.

If you're a bad conversationalist, it's no wonder why if you're so preoccupied in your own thoughts that you aren't genuinely interested in the conversation itself.

It might be important to realize that you don't need to "fix" yourself, if you've been trying to and it hasn't been working, then stop. Just be comfortable with yourself. If you're awkward and can't have a good conversation, just accept it and have fun with it. Maybe when someone has an "undesirable" reaction to something you've said, then just realize the humour in how awkward you are and how funny it is that they react in that way.

[nistacular]

I agree with everything you've said... just sometimes it's so hard. Everyone seems so much more happy and enthused sometimes. I know I CAN be that happy, but I've only been able to do so if I feel loved or if I'm friends with them. Conversations with people I don't know too well just seem so pointless and I feel bad that they have to deal with my lack of conversation skills. Maybe I just haven't found my crowd of people? I'm so awkward LOL - I'm going to take your advice and laugh at myself more often.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

... I've always tried to compensate in various different ways throughout my life. I've tried getting good at things I don't particularly care about, I've tried being more empathetic ... He looked at me, smiled, and said "you're the violinist right?"...

I was just curious ... do you really care, deep down, about playing the violin?

[nistacular]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

I was just curious ... do you really care, deep down, about playing the violin?

Yes actually, music has always been a big part of my life. I started with piano in elementary school and picked up violin. It's another form of expression for me. But there were years when I felt the need to practice not out of my love for the violin/music and just did it anyway because I needed to feel good at something. Now I'm glad I did so because I can play well and really enjoy playing.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

... music has always been a big part of my life. I started with piano in elementary school and picked up violin. It's another form of expression for me. But there were years when I felt the need to practice not out of my love for the violin/music and just did it anyway because I needed to feel good at something. Now I'm glad I did so because I can play well and really enjoy playing.

I thought as much ... and that is GOOD :-) You ARE someone - someone unique and important and for starters I can tell that you are someone who care about expressing yourself in music. Banal observation, maybe, but hugely important when this issue is about "loosing your natural voice", as you write it.

You see, I generally don't believe in people who are 'blank slates' or have 'no personality'. Everybody has a LOT of authentic real-ness in them. However, almost everybody is afraid to show it - for one reason or another.

Sounds to me like you are going through one of those identity-crises that are so prevalent in the late teens, early 20s. Not a 'teenage-ID-crisis' - goodness, no! I mean, you know who you are and who you want to be in most important aspects: style, sexuality, hobbies, pet peeves and so on - but now it can become much more existential - much more deepfelt.

(Unless you are one of the lucky ones who never think much about anything in life :-)

My own major 'early-20s-crisis' (I am 37 now) was about identity, too, but with a slightly spiritual slant. I had read a lot about buddhism and zen-philosophy and I wondered too if those writers were really correct: Did I really not have an 'I' inside me? Was the feeling that 'I' was a unique self an illusion? Didn't I have a soul?

I know, I know - if you are not religious, spiritual or anything, those considerations may sound outlandish. But I don't think they are to you. You seem to share them, on a very deep level doubting who you are and what you can offer - even if it's 'just' psychological, and you don't believe in a soul or anything.

If I may start of with a suggestion that may be of a little help, and along the lines of what Canadian said:

If you have to force yourself to 'be in a certain way' - force yourself to talk about yourself, profoundly, at least once during any conversation: whatever moves you, concerns you, at the moment ...


You remind me of a friend of mine, who also always lead the conversation away from herself, and much as I loathe people who can never talk about anything but themselves, it feels as if you've gone off to the other extreme. No wonder you can't 'feel yourself' - you write:

" ... and I try to make the conversation about him. I keep doing that with everyone, and always have and it makes me so frustrated, because it turns so many people off."

People can feel when you are interested in them in a 'fake way' - they can feel if it's not for real. So you really don't have anything to loose by starting to talking more about YOU.

So ... why not start here? I would love to know more about that music of yours - what ambitions do you have? Do you want to make a living from it? Is there any particular style or genre you love more than others? Do you compose or want to compose yourself?

[Fred Tracy]

Hey OP, I tend to have the same problem.

It's sometimes difficult for me to express exactly what I want to express. I also struggled with trying to be like other people for a long time.

The best solution? Stop worrying about it.

Like many problems, it will go away on its own if you stop worrying about it. The very fact that you're focusing so much on this issue is actually helping to perpetuate it. If you focus your time on something more productive, your natural voice will emerge again.

[nistacular]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

I thought as much ... and that is GOOD :-) You ARE someone - someone unique and important and for starters I can tell that you are someone who care about expressing yourself in music. Banal observation, maybe, but hugely important when this issue is about "loosing your natural voice", as you write it.

You see, I generally don't believe in people who are 'blank slates' or have 'no personality'. Everybody has a LOT of authentic real-ness in them. However, almost everybody is afraid to show it - for one reason or another.

Sounds to me like you are going through one of those identity-crises that are so prevalent in the late teens, early 20s. Not a 'teenage-ID-crisis' - goodness, no! I mean, you know who you are and who you want to be in most important aspects: style, sexuality, hobbies, pet peeves and so on - but now it can become much more existential - much more deepfelt.

(Unless you are one of the lucky ones who never think much about anything in life :-)

My own major 'early-20s-crisis' (I am 37 now) was about identity, too, but with a slightly spiritual slant. I had read a lot about buddhism and zen-philosophy and I wondered too if those writers were really correct: Did I really not have an 'I' inside me? Was the feeling that 'I' was a unique self an illusion? Didn't I have a soul?

I know, I know - if you are not religious, spiritual or anything, those considerations may sound outlandish. But I don't think they are to you. You seem to share them, on a very deep level doubting who you are and what you can offer - even if it's 'just' psychological, and you don't believe in a soul or anything.

If I may start of with a suggestion that may be of a little help, and along the lines of what Canadian said:

If you have to force yourself to 'be in a certain way' - force yourself to talk about yourself, profoundly, at least once during any conversation: whatever moves you, concerns you, at the moment ...


You remind me of a friend of mine, who also always lead the conversation away from herself, and much as I loathe people who can never talk about anything but themselves, it feels as if you've gone off to the other extreme. No wonder you can't 'feel yourself' - you write:

" ... and I try to make the conversation about him. I keep doing that with everyone, and always have and it makes me so frustrated, because it turns so many people off."

People can feel when you are interested in them in a 'fake way' - they can feel if it's not for real. So you really don't have anything to loose by starting to talking more about YOU.

So ... why not start here? I would love to know more about that music of yours - what ambitions do you have? Do you want to make a living from it? Is there any particular style or genre you love more than others? Do you compose or want to compose yourself?

See, my problem is, it doesn't particularly bring me joy to talk about myself unless I know someone cares. Kind of like how it doesn't particularly bring me joy to talk about anything unless I know someone cares. Is that normal? I mean I can answer your questions easily - Since I love the violin I'll probably keep playing it. I like a variety of genres, mostly practice classical stuff though. I don't think I'll ever be good enough to make a living from it, but if all else fails I'll try. I have composed some, and it can be fun. I use a program called Finale.

I guess I've always been somewhat more of a 'love first, ask questions later' person. But lately that's not at all working for me, because of the way people interpret me. I just feel so apathetic sometimes... like today at work. I work for City Year, and we tutor high school students in bad schools. I felt bad for kids that I tutored because I was so boring... I'm well versed in the curriculum, but that's all I'd talk to them about because so many of them wouldn't care about my life, and frankly I probably wouldn't care about their life. Why do I have such apathy? At least towards conversation? In the car ride I said maybe 10 words, while everyone else had their own conversations. I used to have close friends in elementary school, and a few in middle school. After my best friend moved to Korea I felt empty inside, and through high school I had very few good friends. My only motivation for writing this now is to understand who I am. I remember those great days as a child feeling so connected to everyone. But that's not at all the case anymore.

[nistacular]

Originally Posted by Fred Tracy

Hey OP, I tend to have the same problem.

It's sometimes difficult for me to express exactly what I want to express. I also struggled with trying to be like other people for a long time.

The best solution? Stop worrying about it.

Like many problems, it will go away on its own if you stop worrying about it. The very fact that you're focusing so much on this issue is actually helping to perpetuate it. If you focus your time on something more productive, your natural voice will emerge again.

I seriously have been trying that as of late. I have just stopped worrying. But this didn't make me happy... I haven't been very talkative, just trying to sit on my self esteem and just BE. But something is missing. And it definitely has to do with other people. I feel like I'm holding back expressing myself or something. I've gotten so used to it I don't want it to become a part of me, but I don't know how to change. I wish I could just go away and exist in a world where everyone loved each other and none of this mattered. Maybe when I open up I feel so vulnerable that I almost never do it fully or something? For almost all my life I've been really open to my family and have talked a lot at the dinner table and such. But even recently it's been hard to be who I am around them. I just don't know who the ♥♥♥♥ I am anymore, and now talking about this in starting to bring tears to my eyes, but not many. Almost like I'm still holding back or something.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

See, my problem is, it doesn't particularly bring me joy to talk about myself unless I know someone cares..

My feeling is that the root cause, as always, is with yourself. For instance, right now you came very close to assuming that I did not care, and therefore (?) gave me a rather cursory intro to your passions. That, I think, is because you - for some reason - do not care enough about yourself. It's probably something that 'got into' you at some point during growing up with your brother, whom you always felt was a little 'ahead' of you in the 'getting credit department'. Or something to that effect. So you absorbed - internalized - that position, of always not really being 'worth it' by default.

And now it feels to me a bit like you have decided that you need to 'trade' interest. So you have to show interest in someone first, before they can show interest in your life - and still, as you admit, not only does that strategy backfire often (people 'smell' that you are not really passionate about them, but rather needy yourself) and ... most importantly of all: You feel LOUSY about it. Really. Forgive me for shouting it out, but dammit that is something that makes me care. Whether you believe it or not ...

Maybe it's because I've had such trouble with self-worth and self-confidence and relations myself, I dunno. But it stings to read about.

So maybe I didn't get all the basics right, in my assessment (forgive me), or maybe I missed something, or maybe it creeps you out that I try to analyse you on such a level, but I can assure you I mean well - as do the others, I am convinced, who have commented here.

After all, that's what this forum is about isn't it? I hope you can at least have some confidence in that and stick around. I don't think you would have sought it out, if you didn't at some deep level know that you could get what you yearned for here:

Some genuine interest in who you are - no need to trade, no conditions.

Originally Posted by nistacular

I guess I've always been somewhat more of a 'love first, ask questions later' person. But lately that's not at all working for me, because of the way people interpret me. I just feel so apathetic sometimes... like today at work. I work for City Year, and we tutor high school students in bad schools. I felt bad for kids that I tutored because I was so boring... I'm well versed in the curriculum, but that's all I'd talk to them about because so many of them wouldn't care about my life, and frankly I probably wouldn't care about their life. Why do I have such apathy? At least towards conversation? In the car ride I said maybe 10 words, while everyone else had their own conversations. I used to have close friends in elementary school, and a few in middle school. After my best friend moved to Korea I felt empty inside, and through high school I had very few good friends. My only motivation for writing this now is to understand who I am. I remember those great days as a child feeling so connected to everyone. But that's not at all the case anymore.

Well, I will probably have to go careful on more analysis-stuff lest I risk estranging you ... but my hunch is (and this is based on personal experience, too) that you feel apathetic because you are putting a lid on your own feelings for yourself. Same problem again: There is something else, you think, that you have to 'do' to be interesting to others. Like when you grew up with your brother and always felt no. 2. The odds were stacked against you, or so you feel.

Hey man, that's one helluva way to turn off one's own light - I mean, one's joy. The most basic joy we all feel is the joy of being US. That's what children feel by default - until the world tells them something different, or so they interpret. And then they start believing in it, instead of their own feelings.

I think it will be difficult for me, or anyone else in this forum, to convince you that you are 'worth it', as the saying goes - without resorting to all sorts of tricks and tactics and trades to feel 'ensured' that we 'really mean it', that we really want to be reciprocate. We sure as hell are gonna try, make no mistake. But as with most changes, this one is gonna take time, I think. And I don't really have any magical solutions except keeping the conversation up and hoping you will stick with me, and whoeever else joins, and continue to tell us more about what you feel and about your life, even if it's not all roses, even if it's in a rut right now ... I think that's the only way you can find a way back to yourself. We're gonna help. Believe it.

*

I thought about a couple of additional 'supports' you might benefit from right now. The first is a free video by a guy named Morty Lefkoe, whom Steve recommends. You can find it here:

Products and Services

Both my girlfriend and I have tried it, and felt that it had a very, very deep impact on some of the beliefs we've been struggling with for God-knows-how-long - about ourselves, our lack of worth and capability. Especially the interactive video about selfconfidence (IIRC) was good. If you haven't already give it a try!

Secondly, there was something in that story about you coming home, meeting the janitor and beginning to talk about jazz, and then leaving feeling estranged that really, really got to me.

You see, I am a writer of short stories, and I often use inspirations from real people in my stories. If you'd feel comfortable about it, I'd like you to help me recreate the incident for a short story, by describing to me as vividly as possible what you felt, experienced, talked about, etc. It might be pretty hard to do so, and I can't really guarantee that you'll get anything out of it, except perhaps (and that might be important enough) getting to know some of your feelings - both the good and the bad - a bit better.

More self-knowledge may hurt like hell, but at least it's better than no knowledge at all ... Give it a thought. You don't have to reply here, in public, but send me a PM, or a mail (beyourstory AT gmail DOT com). You can read more about those types of collaborations on my site:

INSPIRE - the Shade of the Morning Sun stories | Shade of the Morning Sun

But whatever you do - stick around, try a vid, throw yourself into the unknown and collaborate with the weird Starbuck guy on a story, or something completely different - don't give up.

Don't accept apathy. Christ, you're only 19. It's much, much too early to throw in the towel. Don't EVER consider that!

All the best,

Chris

[nistacular]

I feel like you're definitely right.... also I've had some rather traumatic childhood experiences involving my brother and social alienation. They wouldn't be too traumatic for most people, but I'm really sensitive I think. There were times when I thought I legitimately hated my brother.

Btw, thanks for your analysis of me. I tend to analyze human relations a lot, so it almost seems perfectly natural, even if it'd seem creepy for most people.

Every now and then, in social settings, I get glimpses of the person that I want to be, usually when I'm the most happy. But when I get there, I immediately feel incredibly vulnerable. I just don't know how to maintain any such state. Yesterday I read Steve Pavlina's article on states of consciousness, and I found that to be fascinating - and it tied directly into a book I read, called the Art of Learning (I highly recommend this book for anyone that wants to get better at a skill or improve their productiveness). Recently I've combatted my apathy by simply thinking about the methods to attain higher consciousness and having some success with them. It certainly brings back my self esteem to some degree, and makes me feel good without others. But I need to feel good WITH others.

I'm already talented, I feel like I could do anything I wanted if only my mental state was better. I wish I could joke and laugh with people, and make close friends. Today, I felt proud of myself actually - I had a conversation with someone about learning techniques and other stuff. It was kind of an intellectual conversation though, and I still felt like most of it was driven by her (one of my colleagues), with me responding to those ideas. But it was actually a long conversation! And it didn't feel that awkward! The only thing missing was my own splash of personality which I'm still searching for. Don't worry, I'm gonna keep looking for ways to be happy and not apathetic if it kills me. I don't want to be like my dad, who is chemically depressed and had a midlife crisis. It possible, though tragic, that I might be somewhat chemically depressed, in which case there might be little I can do. We'll see....

I just feel like it's going to be so hard... I guess I just need to keep searching through my past, and identify where and why this all started, and work from there. My childhood memories of great joy are tarnished by social alienation at the same time, so I never had a CONSISTENTLY happy childhood. It's made me so literal!

I will get back to you about the story when I'm less tired.... I'm willing to give it a shot.

Thank you all... I love this community already.

[nistacular]

One thing to add... just because I speak freely of this stuff, and sound like a nice person, doesn't speak much to how I'm feeling. The 'tone' of my writing shouldn't matter, only what is said. I say this because I've always been very literal whether I'm feeling terrible or not... and since I don't feel like I really fully have my 'natural voice' yet.

[Brutha]

I guess I just need to keep searching through my past, and identify where and why this all started, and work from there.

Part of your problem is that you overanalyse social interactions.
I don't think that analysing your past will help you.

The thing that will help you is actual practice.
Go take an improv comedy workshop.

[michellesears]

The next time you get into a conversation with a stranger become genuinely interested in what they are saying. And do not talk negatively to yourself in your head the whole time you're having the conversation.

As the says goes become interested in other people not interesting to other people and then you'll become a better conversationalist.

At least that's what I personally try to do and it's been working out great for me. I hope it works for you too.

[nistacular]

Well, although you're right those things probably would make me into a better conversationalist, I don't think they would fix my apathy. I feel like a chunk of my self esteem is missing or something, and I've been searching on how to get it back....

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

I feel like you're definitely right.... also I've had some rather traumatic childhood experiences involving my brother and social alienation. They wouldn't be too traumatic for most people, but I'm really sensitive I think. There were times when I thought I legitimately hated my brother.

I thought I read as much between the lines ... but don't worry, it's perfectly normal. I mean, if you've always felt no.2 and never good enough. That's reason enough to get angry. Maybe it's not the right reason or reaction or whatever, but it's perfectly normal, perfectly human. You're doing something about it now, that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by nistacular

Every now and then, in social settings, I get glimpses of the person that I want to be, usually when I'm the most happy. But when I get there, I immediately feel incredibly vulnerable.

Prob'ly because you feel you are not good enough as you are, and then the alarm bells go off in your subconsciousness.

Originally Posted by nistacular

Recently I've combatted my apathy by simply thinking about the methods to attain higher consciousness and having some success with them. It certainly brings back my self esteem to some degree, and makes me feel good without others. But I need to feel good WITH others.

Yes, but reading stuff like that is important too. It shows you that other states of being/relation ARE possible. And Steve is a perfect example of that! So keep reading!

Originally Posted by nistacular

I'm already talented, I feel like I could do anything I wanted if only my mental state was better. I wish I could joke and laugh with people, and make close friends. Today, I felt proud of myself actually - I had a conversation with someone about learning techniques and other stuff. It was kind of an intellectual conversation though, and I still felt like most of it was driven by her (one of my colleagues), with me responding to those ideas. But it was actually a long conversation! And it didn't feel that awkward! The only thing missing was my own splash of personality which I'm still searching for.

As others have said, you over-analyze and that's what 'gets you' - like trying to see the spot between your eye-brows, or see your own 'I' in the mind - as if it was an object to be grasped and not an experience. You're probably a little bit obsessive about this, as I have been about other things in the past, but it's not particularly abnormal either. It's just a struggle you have right now and, no, we're probably not going to be able to 'command you' to stop having it by giving you allt this good advice, and 'creepy analysis' ... but I believe it'll empower you bit by bit. So stick around and keep sticking around!

Originally Posted by nistacular

Don't worry, I'm gonna keep looking for ways to be happy and not apathetic if it kills me. I don't want to be like my dad, who is chemically depressed and had a midlife crisis. It possible, though tragic, that I might be somewhat chemically depressed, in which case there might be little I can do. We'll see....

Take it from someone who cured himself from obsessive compulsive disorder, long-term depression and rampant anxiety - by changing his core way of thinking after a long and hard process of learning; and was thereafter able to throw out the nastiest anti-depressant and anti-psychotic drugs ... THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING YOU CAN DO.

Hey, is this a Steve Pavlina-forum or what??

Okay, seriously, it may not *feel* that way right now, but that's why you have people, like us forum members, standing on a bit away from the 'entanglement' you feel you are in, being able to reach into it (with words at least) and give you a 'verbal shaking' (i.e. friendly reminder). I hope it at least has some effect ...

Originally Posted by nistacular

I just feel like it's going to be so hard... I guess I just need to keep searching through my past, and identify where and why this all started, and work from there. My childhood memories of great joy are tarnished by social alienation at the same time, so I never had a CONSISTENTLY happy childhood. It's made me so literal!

I will get back to you about the story when I'm less tired.... I'm willing to give it a shot.

Thank you all... I love this community already.

It IS going to be hard, but it's going to be worth it. All journeys are.

The story offer is always open, if you ever feel it could be beneficial. No deadline or expiration date.

Stick around!

Best,

Chris

[nistacular]

Hey everyone.... I think I've finally accepted my emotions or something. I'm crying right now. I went to East Lansing to visit my family this weekend. I saw the MI vs State game with some friends. Everything was going well, until I agreed to smoke some pot with them (which I've done many a time), but before pot seemed to make me into something I'm not... and when I tried it last it just made me anxious. I don't think I ever want to do pot again, or at least until I'm absolutely sure of myself, because this time when I tried it, I was anxious, but didn't have the motivation to hold myself back... so I got depressed... everyone there saw. They tried to do various things to cheer me up, in subtle ways, but I could tell, and just that alone made me want to cry. I wanted to cry because they cared about me. ME, not this person I've been pretending to be for so long. My self esteem has been so hurt for so long I've almost forgotten who I am. Sorry if this is incredibly depressing... but now I'm just in a state of depression. But I'm really happy in one way - it's also a state of acceptance. I feel like myself. Because I was finally able to be myself when around others.

After the game, I went home to be with my family... I was depressed there too. I participated despite my emotional state, and they accepted me and it felt great. But it was also really awkward I think, especially since for my stepmom I think. She analyses people a lot, and probably thinks I'm upset because of someone else there... because I react to everything in my depressed state. For the first time I didn't pretend not to be depressed. For most of the dinner I just wanted to cry someone's shoulder. I almost approached my dad afterward so I could talk to him, and probably end up sobbing. But I essentially chickened out.

What should I do from here? I feel I know where my self esteem needs to be, and since I've been so depressed/crying/emotional recently, I've been able to truly feel myself, instead of being apathetic. This is a very good thing for me. But how the ♥♥♥♥ to I simply jump into the lime light of the rest of the world and be a happy productive person? I'm so scared. I'm afraid I'm going to get hurt again, and then be more apathetic than I started as. Or that I'll finally be able to be happy around others, but find out that most people don't like my personality. Before I would be quiet, but now I'd feel anxiety if I just sat there saying nothing, unless I became emotional/sad, which is something most that isn't exactly socially acceptable.

Thank you guys so much...

[Carri C]

try to just accept yourself where you are rather than judging and rejecting yourself. it's a phase. it'll pass. i would suggest two things:

(1) lots of affirmations along the lines of "I love and accept myself exactly as I am" (about 1000 times a day for 90 days should be a good start ) Or maybe "i love and support myself no matter what"

(2) i heard this great prayer that can be used with every interaction "dear god, please let the right words come out and the wrong words stay in". that's it. hand it over to the creative energies of the universe and then DON'T JUDGE what happens next. just experiment with it for a while.

all the best and good luck. xx

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

Hey everyone.... I think I've finally accepted my emotions or something. I'm crying right now. I went to East Lansing to visit my family this weekend. I saw the MI vs State game with some friends. Everything was going well, until I agreed to smoke some pot with them (which I've done many a time), but before pot seemed to make me into something I'm not... and when I tried it last it just made me anxious. I don't think I ever want to do pot again, or at least until I'm absolutely sure of myself, because this time when I tried it, I was anxious, but didn't have the motivation to hold myself back... so I got depressed... everyone there saw. They tried to do various things to cheer me up, in subtle ways, but I could tell, and just that alone made me want to cry. I wanted to cry because they cared about me. ME, not this person I've been pretending to be for so long. My self esteem has been so hurt for so long I've almost forgotten who I am. Sorry if this is incredibly depressing... but now I'm just in a state of depression. But I'm really happy in one way - it's also a state of acceptance. I feel like myself. Because I was finally able to be myself when around others.

After the game, I went home to be with my family... I was depressed there too. I participated despite my emotional state, and they accepted me and it felt great. But it was also really awkward I think, especially since for my stepmom I think. She analyses people a lot, and probably thinks I'm upset because of someone else there... because I react to everything in my depressed state. For the first time I didn't pretend not to be depressed. For most of the dinner I just wanted to cry someone's shoulder. I almost approached my dad afterward so I could talk to him, and probably end up sobbing. But I essentially chickened out.

What should I do from here? I feel I know where my self esteem needs to be, and since I've been so depressed/crying/emotional recently, I've been able to truly feel myself, instead of being apathetic. This is a very good thing for me. But how the ♥♥♥♥ to I simply jump into the lime light of the rest of the world and be a happy productive person? I'm so scared. I'm afraid I'm going to get hurt again, and then be more apathetic than I started as. Or that I'll finally be able to be happy around others, but find out that most people don't like my personality. Before I would be quiet, but now I'd feel anxiety if I just sat there saying nothing, unless I became emotional/sad, which is something most that isn't exactly socially acceptable.

Thank you guys so much...

That was very moving to read - thanks for sharing!! And I must say that I am very, very glad to hear that you are already 'breaking the ice' - within yourself, in little bits and pieces at the time. The various 'facades' that you may have accumulated over the years need to be confronted and accepted and then experienced (like the outburst of old-pent up emotions), and then the 'emotional bungle' that they represent within you will be loosened and ultimately go away. (I'm not advocating any particular kind of therapy, mind you - just speaking from my own experiences.)

And speaking of said experiences: This is a LONG process, but it may happen and evolve sooner than you think. The reason - and the ONLY reason - that something is happening *now* - and in a way that you feel is sudden (probably) - is that *you* made that decision. Some deep, inner core-part of you want to come out, but that doesn't mean that it can do so right away, and it doesn't mean you should get deluded into a a new battle between trying to figure out which part of you is 'the core' and which is not. It will just trap you again.

Try instead (fearsome as it may be at first) to go with the experience and accept all your emotions, as other posters have suggested. When the smoke has cleared, you will know about that which is left - that which you still feel about yourself, regardless of any situation:

Is it something the you want to keep feeling, and something you want to express - a certain behaviour, interest, emotion, etc.?

Or is it something that was just temporary, like your perceived need to 'be interested in others at any cost before they can be interested in you'?

You will probably discover that the 'not really you' was driven mostly by fear and not love (bingo!) ... as is the case for 99% of the rest of us. It usually always boils down to that.

But again: It doesn't mean you should disown the fear-generated emotions that have made you behave in a certain way for so long towards other people, a way you became more and more uncomfy with - because ultimately they were made (or should I say 'twisted') out from the very same 'you-stuff' that is the real you, the carefree child, hiding underneath it all!

That's why acceptance is so important, including of the fear that you would get hurt, if you did not act in all sorts of ways vis-a-vis other people that you may not be too proud of right now, when you begin to see that this behaviour was not 'really who you wanted to be', in so many social situations.

Because in a way it was you - it was driven by a deep need inside you to be protected, and a false perception of what you needed to do to feel safe.

Well, I'd better stop over-analyzing, but I hope you can get the gist of what I'm trying to say. I'm gonna be rooting with the people who say that you should try to just let go and accept the process. If it is too fearsome then try to go slower. Much slower, if need be. You have all the time in the world.

I would also suggest that you seek out a therapist, if you can/want to/have the resources (and shop around a bit till you find the right one for you - someone who is not emotionally involved with you - like a member of your family). It should be someone who can help you in this process and support what is going on, without judgement: That is the hallmark of a good therapist or counselor.

Just a suggestion! - Not because I think you are dangerously ill, demented or depressed but because I know it will support your process (if you find the right person to help you, 'live').

So - to sum up my 2-cents:

Forget about "jumping into the limelight" any time soon. You are going to be very vulnerable for a long time now, until you've found out who you really are again and regained faith in who that person is. You're gonna have to take baby steps. Use this forum to do that, as one option, tell us about your progress, or feeling that you lack progress and take all the time you need.

[rei]

Do you feel like you have grieved the loss of your friend when he or she moved to Korea years ago? That part jumped out at me, like that's when you stopped connecting with others naturally - because you don't want to go through the pain of having that connection changed without your consent.

A very understandable fear, but you see (if that explanation felt right to you), how it is hindering you now to still hold back.

So what if you grieve any grief that might still be there, in whatever way feels right to you, and then make a conscious decision to connect with people whether they stay around or not?

By the way, I understand feeling apathetic and anxious about self-disclosure. I get like that too. Partly because I don't want to feel judged, and can be so very tuned into facial expressions. The self-consciousness doesn't support the goal here, though. I find it's easier to achieve the goal to build relationships when I stop trying so hard and just relate with people. I show THEM care and interest, and the ones who appreciate that will respond in kind.

And besides, you might have misread that janitor. Say hello next time you see him. See how he responds.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

Hey everyone.... I think I've finally accepted my emotions or something. I'm crying right now. (snip).

P.S. I just got this one in my feed -- and I thought about you right away. Oriah's blog is well worth a read ... you might want to get her book: "The Invitation" which is a very, very good book and a great support if one is going thru any kind of change, crisis, transition, etc.

Here's the quote:

" ... as soon as we change a habit, even one that is truly not serving us, our anxiety rises- sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Because whatever fear the habit was placating begins to stir. If we tend to be habitual people-pleasers, and we start saying “No,” fears or beliefs that others will think we are uncaring or cruel or worse will be stirred.

This is why it's often difficult to make changes we can see would be good for us. Change often raises anxiety that can present in a whole host of uncomfortable ways- worry; fear or dread; guilt; anger and self-righteousness; the physical discomfort of indigestion, headaches etc; general agitation and speeding up, or a sudden loss of energy and sluggishness.

Here’s where I go back to what I learned about growing pains when I was a child: growing often causes discomfort; if we try to avoid the discomfort, it gets worse; if we can hold still, recognize and be with the discomfort, breathe through it and not let it drive us into unconscious motion, the discomfort or anxiety will begin to dissipate (often much faster than we would have imagined.)"

from: The Green Bough: How to Handle Growing Pains

[nistacular]

So since my last post I feel like I've changed a lot. I've come to accept who I am more and more. Truly, I don't feel like I have a ton of respect for most people, perhaps because most people aren't as open as I am. I don't know. I'm okay living by myself, rarely seeing friends, and continuing work like usual. I think I'm more... self loving than I once was, but also less social. I really like that quote about habit changing. I'm definitely working on changing some of habits. I've started taking care of myself more for sure, but I almost feel like I've started to care less about others as a result... what do you all think about this? I haven't changed my values, but I put less energy and thought into others now. At the same time, I feel like the few things and people that I do care about, I care about more than I used to, or at least, in a different sort of way, in my own way. I feel like I'm coming out of a fog that was my apathy and depression.

It's suddenly harder for me to disclose this information, because I care about this more... I guess this all started from me thinking about my childhood, and how happy I was then, and how much less happy I am now. And how I'm like waaay smarter than most people (as I thought as a child) and used to look down on them (or at least, I prided my intellect) but recently I had been so accommodating to them instead. Now I'm starting to return to the mindset I had as a child. If it makes me more selfish, so be it, but it seems to be the only way to maintain my sanity at the moment.

The only thing is, I don't really have any friends. Like none. City Year, the organization I work for has a lot of cool people! But I don't know if they'd like me for who I am. They are much more... social, and perhaps don't have the same self respect that I have. I feel so... European haha. Or stereo-typically French, being stuck up or something. That's another thing I've been thinking about a lot recently - the difference of personalities and emotions among cultures. Americans seem so fast paced, but they tend to place less value on the individual interactions that do occur. I'm not like that.... how do I survive socially?

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by nistacular

So since my last post I feel like I've changed a lot. I've come to accept who I am more and more. Truly, I don't feel like I have a ton of respect for most people, perhaps because most people aren't as open as I am. I don't know. I'm okay living by myself, rarely seeing friends, and continuing work like usual. I think I'm more... self loving than I once was, but also less social. I really like that quote about habit changing. I'm definitely working on changing some of habits. I've started taking care of myself more for sure, but I almost feel like I've started to care less about others as a result... what do you all think about this? I haven't changed my values, but I put less energy and thought into others now. At the same time, I feel like the few things and people that I do care about, I care about more than I used to, or at least, in a different sort of way, in my own way. I feel like I'm coming out of a fog that was my apathy and depression.

It's suddenly harder for me to disclose this information, because I care about this more... I guess this all started from me thinking about my childhood, and how happy I was then, and how much less happy I am now. And how I'm like waaay smarter than most people (as I thought as a child) and used to look down on them (or at least, I prided my intellect) but recently I had been so accommodating to them instead. Now I'm starting to return to the mindset I had as a child. If it makes me more selfish, so be it, but it seems to be the only way to maintain my sanity at the moment.

The only thing is, I don't really have any friends. Like none. City Year, the organization I work for has a lot of cool people! But I don't know if they'd like me for who I am. They are much more... social, and perhaps don't have the same self respect that I have. I feel so... European haha. Or stereo-typically French, being stuck up or something. That's another thing I've been thinking about a lot recently - the difference of personalities and emotions among cultures. Americans seem so fast paced, but they tend to place less value on the individual interactions that do occur. I'm not like that.... how do I survive socially?

By having patience ... haha, easier said than done, I know.

But one of the things that tend to happen when we grow, or make some kind of 'leap' in our own personal D, is that we get impatient with others who are seemingly 'stuck' (at least from our POV!).

It's happened to me countless times, not just because I felt I made progress personally (usually after some hefty crises) - but it happens all the time and again and again because I have a well-developed creative gene, I read and write a lot, and I am interested a LOT more (than most of my friends and family) in topix such as philosophy, religion, spirituality, personal development and so on and so on. I am, in other words, 'not normal'. And never will be.

But it is my experience that despite whatever random feelings of distance and estrangement one can have toward others ... it is very much possible, by conscious decision, to learn to look at, accept and enjoy being with all but the most socially incompatible people you come across.

It takes some hard work and a lot of willingness,though, to reach that point inside oneself - where one feels ready to look for the qualities in others, however small in one's POV - qualities that can be appreciated - and then focus on them ... and stop, deliberately, looking for and obsessing about all the 'lacks' and differences between oneself and other people. These traits aren't objectively out there 100% y'know. They are - to a large extent - determined by our conscious decision about how we relate to others.

Sure, some people ARE jerks. Or weird. Or have incompatible values with us. But more often than not, things aren't as black and white - in terms of differences. But it takes a lot of conscious effort to find more common ground. It is possible, though, and very rewarding.

First and foremost, though, you still have a lot of inner work to do - on your view about yourself, I reckon.

You need to strike a balance between not being totally dependent on other people's assessments of you - and - not feeling like you don't really need them anyway because, you are 'so much more x, y and z' than them. Or whatever.

That takes time and a lot of experimenting, with different social relations. I can't tell you what works for you and I hope that that won't come as too big a disappointment ... but don't draw away from others!

Keep seeking out new people, in whatever way you can, or - if you feel ready - keep striving to see people in new ways. (More difficult, but often more rewarding.) Then you'll figure out what works and what doesn't work.

And believe me - it's a life-long process. :-)

Sorry, if this was not the answer you were looking for, but it was the best I was able to give right now. Perhaps others have something else to offer?

[nistacular]

Thanks Starbuck, your answer was very helpful. You're right, I think I just need to accept that it's going to take a long time with lots of experimenting. And once I accept that, I should stop thinking so much about it, and get down to just living it. Even if I'm not my happiest for the next 5 years, at least I'll be growing, and be interacting with people. Even if I'm not going to be able to be myself for a long time, I might as well be someone - that sounds kinda depressing, but it's true in a very literal way lol.