[ADULT] Is sexual preference malleable?

[VinceG]

Mod note: split thread from Why is it only getting harder?

Originally Posted by lycan

You are not gay. If you don't like it, you can choose to be straight/bisexual instead. You can feel lust, and you can feel romantic love towards men, if you decide it is something you are willing to do.

This is probably true. I've often felt that way about my heterosexuality. I think if I really cared to, I could learn how to feel lust for men. I just don't care to. No reason to think it can't work the same the other way around.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by lycan

You are not gay. If you don't like it, you can choose to be straight/bisexual instead. You can feel lust, and you can feel romantic love towards men, if you decide it is something you are willing to do. I know society has conditioned you to think otherwise. This is politics, people finding ways around the repulsion most people feel toward homosexuality by making it seem that it is something people are victimized by, something outside their control, so that people feel guilty and ashamed of judging others for it. But it's time we grow up. Homosexuality is a habit of thought. So is heterosexuality. So is bestiality. So is pedophilia. They are habits formed by the interplay of your conscious choices, the reflexes of your body and your environment (past and current). If homosexuality is causing you pain instead of joy, choose a different habit.

What on earth? Of all the habits you would have told her to change, you chose the absolute most difficult and possibly impossible one? That's your political agenda, nothing more.

[lycan]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

What on earth? Of all the habits you would have told her to change, you chose the absolute most difficult and possibly impossible one?

It is not the most difficult habit to change, and it is not impossible. Unless you go at it from guilt. If you think you have to change to please others, you'll resent it and sabotage yourself.

That's your political agenda, nothing more.

I don't have a political agenda. If I read a post about how gays have it easy and how difficult it is to be straight, I would reply the same way.

[bluestar]

Well for some mainly straight people, being bi, or even bi-curious (ie being open to a gay experience, if not relationship) is quite easy. But for many straight people trying to "make themselves" gay just ain't gonna work, -any more than trying to make blue eyes turn brown by sheer force of will.
Same goes for "trying to make yourself straight"
It wouldn't work.

[Jack Stark]

In my reality tunnel, everyone is somewhere between Absolute Zero and Ultimate Infinity on an omnisexual scale, and something like 90% of the population that I observe around me is in deep denial as to not only the existence of the scale itself, but their own relative position upon it.

This paradigm serves Us well.

[lycan]

Originally Posted by Jack Stark

In my reality tunnel, everyone is somewhere between Absolute Zero and Ultimate Infinity on an omnisexual scale, and something like 90% of the population that I observe around me is in deep denial as to not only the existence of the scale itself, but their own relative position upon it.

This paradigm serves Us well.

More important, they are in denial that their position in the scale is entirely their choice.

[lycan]

Originally Posted by bluestar

Well for some mainly straight people, being bi, or even bi-curious (ie being open to a gay experience, if not relationship) is quite easy. But for many straight people trying to "make themselves" gay just ain't gonna work, -any more than trying to make blue eyes turn brown by sheer force of will.

You're saying some people have this ability, and others do not? That's nonsense. Sexual preference is not a fixed physical attribute. It is the way a person's brain is wired. The brain has plasticity. It can be molded. But first, you have to flip the permission switch. You have to give yourself permission to be sexually attracted to X. This is why it's hard for a lot of straight people, as well as gay people. They think it would be wrong to do so. Gay people, to be specific, think if they give themselves permission to be straight they are "rejecting" their previous gayness, judging themselves, and giving in to the demands/viewpoint of others.

Same goes for "trying to make yourself straight"
It wouldn't work.

It does once the person stops self-judgement.

[bluestar]

Originally Posted by lycan

You're saying some people have this ability, and others do not? That's nonsense. Sexual preference is not a fixed physical attribute. It is the way a person's brain is wired. The brain has plasticity. It can be molded. But first, you have to flip the permission switch. You have to give yourself permission to be sexually attracted to X. This is why it's hard for a lot of straight people, as well as gay people. They think it would be wrong to do so. Gay people, to be specific, think if they give themselves permission to be straight they are "rejecting" their previous gayness, judging themselves, and giving in to the demands/viewpoint of others.




It does once the person stops self-judgement.

Well, you guys....whatever...(shrug)

[lycan]

Originally Posted by Jack Stark

Just change the name of the habit, instead of the habit; or, recognize that the true nature is just that, one's nature, and the name that we grant it, and one's thoughts about that name, are the source of the unease.

Her problem is not that she dislikes the homosexual label. She has not indicated that this causes her any unease.

[Jack Stark]

I would prefer not to put on the table, the label of the label that was labeled as the base of the trouble, in that, I'm labeling that as such.

I don't think it would work.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by lycan

It is not the most difficult habit to change, and it is not impossible. Unless you go at it from guilt. If you think you have to change to please others, you'll resent it and sabotage yourself.

You're making a pretty enormous claim. Can you show me evidence, rather than just making claims? Besides trans people, I have only heard of one person who seemed to have genuinely had a complete orientation flip, but I don't know about that either because he, too, had a repulsion against same-sex sexuality. For trans people, the change is not necessarily a conscious one, but comes about during their vast shift in experience as they physiologically transition. Similarly, the development of an orientation in early childhood is not conscious either.

And how many millions of people have tried to turn themselves straight? I tried to do it, even after I accepted my sexual orientation, longer after the shame was gone (not sure I ever was ashamed, or felt any guilt, but perhaps embarrassed). I simply wanted to be bisexual. Explain to me how the hell I'm supposed to "make myself" start being attracted to men.

Originally Posted by lycan

I don't have a political agenda. If I read a post about how gays have it easy and how difficult it is to be straight, I would reply the same way.

Then what's with the weird part of your post about politics being "getting around the repulsion most people feel toward homosexuality," and "people feeling guilty and ashamed of judging others for it"? What does that have to do with pyrogen?

[lycan]

And how many millions of people have tried to turn themselves straight? I tried to do it, even after I accepted my sexual orientation, longer after the shame was gone (not sure I ever was ashamed, or felt any guilt, but perhaps embarrassed). I simply wanted to be bisexual. Explain to me how the hell I'm supposed to "make myself" start being attracted to men.

Sure. Can you tell me exactly what you tried so I have some reference from which to work with?

Then what's with the weird part of your post about politics being "getting around the repulsion most people feel toward homosexuality," and "people feeling guilty and ashamed of judging others for it"? What does that have to do with pyrogen?

That is the reason people don't believe they can change, because they are constantly told it is their "identity", that it's just "who they really are" and to try to be some other way is a type of "faking". Because people believe making the choice to be gay is bad, the way around that was to say it is not a choice. Since society has decided it's not a choice, people's perception of reality conforms to it.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by lycan

Sure. Can you tell me exactly what you tried so I have some reference from which to work with?




That is the reason people don't believe they can change, because they are constantly told it is their "identity", that it's just "who they really are" and to try to be some other way is a type of "faking". Because people believe making the choice to be gay is bad, the way around that was to say it is not a choice. Since society has decided it's not a choice, people's perception of reality conforms to it.

I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence to back up your claims.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Explain to me how the hell I'm supposed to "make myself" start being attracted to men.

There's no such thing as "make", or force. If you would be successful in returning to how you were heterosexually made, it's called being helped/guided... in healing yourself. 'Regress to cause...hypnosis', amongst others. It needs someone who knows what they are doing. - But yes, you can Change!

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

There's no such thing as "make", or force. If you would be successful in returning to how you were heterosexually made, it's called being helped/guided... in healing yourself. 'Regress to cause...hypnosis', amongst others. It needs someone who knows what they are doing. - But yes, you can Change!

._.

I'm this close to saying that this sort of thing should be forbidden on these forums. It's disgusting and vile, and entirely contrary to the subject's personal development. And don't think that your "nice" tone is helping -- what it is is manipulative.

re "healing" -- don't fix it if it ain't broken. Why does a gay person need "healing"? Would you like to be "healed" from being attracted to the opposite sex? How would that work out?

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

There's no such thing as "make", or force. If you would be successful in returning to how you were heterosexually made, it's called being helped/guided... in healing yourself. 'Regress to cause...hypnosis', amongst others. It needs someone who knows what they are doing. - But yes, you can Change!

Aahh, so what do you suggest? ECT? Exodus ministries?

[ZephyrusX]

Sk8joyful: I identify as homosexual and I am not in need of healing. I'm a perfectly healthy adult woman mentally, spiritually and physically. I just like other women. Can you see how your choice of words can be offensive? Saying that one is able to be helped implies that there is something wrong with us. There is nothing wrong with me. I'm just as damn beautiful as you are. And again, saying that we are 'heterosexually made' takes heterosexuality as the default standard and problematizes anything that is non-heterosexual.

For someone who talks a lot about beauty and joy on these forums, I really do hope that you understand what I am saying because I'd hate for you to shut your self off from on my own beauty and joy over something as silly as my sexual orientation. Do you understand?

Feel free to PM me if you feel more comfortable talking in private.

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

There's no such thing as "make", or force. If you would be successful in returning to how you were heterosexually made, it's called being helped/guided... in healing yourself. 'Regress to cause...hypnosis', amongst others. It needs someone who knows what they are doing. - But yes, you can Change!

[elinunez]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Mod note: split thread from Why is it only getting harder?


This is probably true. I've often felt that way about my heterosexuality. I think if I really cared to, I could learn how to feel lust for men. I just don't care to. No reason to think it can't work the same the other way around.

Hello, I'm sorry to intrude on your convo. I agree with what you said. It does depend on wheather it's something you want to do. It can be as simple as that but if you have the desire. If the desire or want isn't there then why bother? I have also thought this of women, but never had the actual want as well... and I'm apologizing because I'm new here to this site and have no idea how to start threads :/ does anyone mind telling me how? I would much appriciate it.

[Annie Zero]

I'll reiterate that sexual malleability is one thing, becoming ex-gay (and current-straight) is another, or at least a very extreme form of the former. (If no one here was saying that a gay person can become mostly-straight with the same libido, then I apologize for assuming things.)

I think that if so far an adult person has been on either end of the scale (gay or straight, nowhere in between) -- it may (or may not) be possible for them to "train" themselves into feeling more lust for the other gender too (especially in extreme circumstances). To some lesser extent, surely, many straight people are capable of making out with someone of the same sex without being grossed out at all -- they're being malleable. To some greater extent, like if one can actually feel real lust for someone very obviously not of their so-far preferred sex -- I don't know. I can't know from personal experience. I can listen to what others say but I'll never know if they were really completely straight/gay to begin with. Maybe I can trust that they're being as sincere as humanly possible, but I still can't know that every other person on either end of the scale is as malleable as them. (And I'm inclined to believe that they're not, given the amount of ex-gay horror stories seeing daylight.)

And turning from gay to straight would require that you're suddenly no longer attracted to the sex you were so far attracted to -- while retaining your sex drive. ... Does that actually ever happen? Or is it even nearly as plausible as lycan and sk8 here are implying it is? I find that extremely hard to believe. To continue with the handedness analogy, no matter how well I'll train myself to write right-handed, I'll always be better and more comfortable writing left-handed, unless for some reason I lose the ability to write at all.

Just the bottom line that I want to get across is that currently there's no way on earth I would take it upon my conscience to tell to any and every gay person that it's entirely possible for them to become straight if they only want to (for external reasons). In all likelihood, I'll be harming them psychologically and hindering their personal development. I don't want that stuff on my karma.