[ADULT] Is sexual preference malleable?

[knowledgeseeker]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Sexuality is not merely a thing of 'taste', but a Developmental process...

It started in the womb, where (not the dad) but another person decided baby's sex, & then
said preborn received Imprinting..., which after birthing was compounded by yet more imprinting, including from society-at-large. - So when an individual forces themself to behave different, than how he or she started their mortality's journey to begin with, it can get complex - much more complex than merely 'aquiring suggested taste'. - Do you understand?

I understand the theory, and it makes sense. But how do we explain the folks who say, "I didn't like x at first, or I never though I would enjoy...but then..." ? Where they imprinted with said like but just didn't know it?

KS

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by knowledgeseeker

I understand the theory, and it makes sense.

it's not a theory, that some mind decides in the womb, to have another boy, or girl emerge...

Originally Posted by knowledgeseeker

But how do we explain "I didn't like x at first, or I never though I would enjoy...but then..." ?
Where they imprinted with said like but just didn't know it?

Making a conscious decision after birth to change a preborn decision,
no less as fundamental as this one, is not really doable, & leaves people more then less confused 1/2sies.
Hence the wisdom that people not mess around with sex-changes, or heal...iow accept the sex they birthed with.

Please explain the Time-frame & the context/status of your 2nd. question better.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

it's not a theory, that some mind decides in the womb, to have another boy, or girl emerge...



Making a conscious decision after birth to change a preborn decision,
no less as fundamental as this one, is not really doable, & leaves people more then less confused 1/2sies.
Hence the wisdom that people not mess around with sex-changes, or heal...iow accept the sex they birthed with.

Please explain the Time-frame & the context/status of your 2nd. question better.

What "mind" decides this??? Seriously, a person's SEX is the result of their chromosomes. Generally people have XX (female) or XY (male) (yes, there are sometimes other combinations). These chromosomes dictate how the BODY will form. However, JUST BECAUSE someone has XY chromosomes and is outwardly male DOES NOT mean that inside their head, they're not female!! A person's GENDER is the way they feel about themselves and consider themselves, and belive me... most people don't CHOOSE to have a different gender from their biological sex. However, it DOES happen.

For such people, having a sex change can be literally a life saving operation!!

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Sexuality is not merely a thing of 'taste', but a Developmental process...

It started in the womb, where (not the dad) but another person decided baby's sex, & then
said preborn received Imprinting..., which after birthing was compounded by yet more imprinting, including from society-at-large. - So when an individual forces themself to behave different, than how he or she started their mortality's journey to begin with, it can get complex - much more complex than merely 'aquiring suggested taste'. - Do you understand?

Please, if you're going to try to communicate a religious agenda, at least come out and say it. What are you hoping to achieve by couching your interpretation of divine will in vague terms?

Secondly, if I were to take your post at face-value. I have one question: How do you know? You are making assertions about people, biology, psychology and I'm asking you to tell me where you get this information.

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

it's not a theory, that some mind decides in the womb, to have another boy, or girl emerge...

What would you say it is? (I agree it's not a theory.)

Making a conscious decision after birth to change a preborn decision,
no less as fundamental as this one, is not really doable, & leaves people more then less confused 1/2sies.
Hence the wisdom that people not mess around with sex-changes, or heal...iow accept the sex they birthed with.

Halvsies? What does that even mean?

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Please,
if you're going to try to communicate a religious agenda,

Thank you for starting your response with IF
as, 'religious', let alone 'agenda' never occurred to me.

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

What are you hoping to achieve by couching
your interpretation of divine will in vague terms?

Also 'couching' was not on my mind either.

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Halvsies? What does that even mean?

Having met a number of people who chose to undergo sex-change operations, that "halfsie" is how some described themselves, on days when things weren't going as they had hoped. - Whether it was the guy, who was now spending all day cleaning out the fridge, or any other number of commonly accepted womanly chores that he wasn't crazy about. - And so forth.

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Secondly, if I were to take your post at face-value. I have one question: How do you know?
You are making assertions about people, biology, psychology and
I'm asking you to tell me where you get this information.

In hypnosis, people have spoken of their life in the womb, as part of their healing...process.


Last week I said I wasn't returning to this thread, then
yesterday a person posted here who was, um pleasant
for lack of a better word, so I ventured a brief return.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Thank you for starting your response with IF
as, 'religious', let alone 'agenda' never occurred to me.


Also 'couching' was not on my mind either.



Having met a number of people who chose to undergo sex-change operations, that "halfsie" is how some described themselves, on days when things weren't going as they had hoped. - Whether it was the guy, who was now spending all day cleaning out the fridge, or any other number of commonly accepted womanly chores that he wasn't crazy about. - And so forth.

Errm lol... I think it's funny how someone would now have to clean out the fridge after they've had a sex change when they never had to before!! Cleaning out the fridge is fun for no one!! But yeah... this doesn't mean guys shouldn't clean out the fridge BEFORE undergoing a sex change... in fact... guys just TAKE YOUR TURN and clean out that nasty fridge already!!

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Erm lol... I think it's funny
how someone would now have to clean out the fridge
after they've had a sex change when they never had to before!!
Cleaning out the fridge is fun for no one!! But yeah...
this doesn't mean guys shouldn't clean out the fridge BEFORE undergoing a sex change...
in fact... guys just TAKE YOUR TURN and clean out that nasty fridge already!!

Things can change (even for us heterosexuals) in more ways than one:
for over 50yrs. I lived by the standard of a place for everything, & things in their place; -
Funny thing! - after 5 consecutive life-CRISES, & now
'cleaning' ???
Nope, went right out the window. Wait, it ain't going out that way, windows are stuck too.

[christianyethboth]

When I was a teenager, I used to think that the reason why some men are gay was because either they couldn't get a girlfriend because of their looks or they hated women because they can't trust them or was let down by them and the reason why some women are lesbian was because either they couldn't get a boyfriend becauase of their looks or they hated men becasue they can't trust them or were let down by them. I also used to think when I was a teenager that the reason why some people are bi-sexual is because they are sexually confused or bored.

But now, I know that is not always the case and that it may be biological or the society that they were raised in.

[sorter]

OBVIOUSLY, no body of knowledge or discipline fully understands how impulses or preferences develop.
Where does anyone get off deciding a particular preference is inborn and can't be changed?
And it is exactly that--a decision, conscious or not, political or not.

Obviously, some impulses/preferences change weather we try to change them or not.
We try desparately to change impulses we don't like with varying degrees of success.
This forum is vastly concerned with exactly that.

Possibly, someday, we will precisely understand how to develop any impulse or desire we choose.
.

[knowledgeseeker]

Originally Posted by sorter

OBVIOUSLY, no body of knowledge or discipline fully understands how impulses or preferences develop.
Where does anyone get off deciding a particular preference is inborn and can't be changed?
And it is exactly that--a decision, conscious or not, political or not.

Obviously, some impulses/preferences change weather we try to change them or not.
We try desparately to change impulses we don't like with varying degrees of success.
This forum is vastly concerned with exactly that.

Possibly, someday, we will precisely understand how to develop any impulse or desire we choose.
.

I think you hit the nail on the head here! I think everyone at some point has had a preference for something and then eventually changed. Whether it was a desert, meal, song, show etc. Or maybe changed their aversion to something. I hated eggplant until my 20s, now I love it. One question I like to ponder is preference the same as aversion? I have a preference to sex with females then I have an aversion to sex with males.

Now my personal perspective is that our preferences and impulses are definitely influenced by society but not governed. And regardless of social pressure some will have a different preferences.

Different therapies and techniques can lessen aversions, or modify preferences. Hypnosis and NLP can influence the way a person feels about smoking, chocolate, overeating etc. Can the same influence our sexual preferences or aversions? Can a person who wants to conform to social pressure use these things to change their impulses or preferences? Like the person who uses Hypnosis to give up smoking?

KS

[sorter]

Originally Posted by knowledgeseeker

Different therapies and techniques can lessen aversions, or modify preferences. Hypnosis and NLP can influence the way a person feels about smoking, chocolate, overeating etc. Can the same influence our sexual preferences or aversions? Can a person who wants to conform to social pressure use these things to change their impulses or preferences? Like the person who uses Hypnosis to give up smoking?
KS

I think so. I'm sure people who want to add same sex sex to their repertoire just
for the fun of it, have little trouble changing an aversion into desire.
But in that case, there's none of the moral or political nonsense usually associated
changing (updating?) sexual orientation.
.

[knowledgeseeker]

Originally Posted by sorter

I think so. I'm sure people who want to add same sex sex to their repertoire just
for the fun of it, have little trouble changing an aversion into desire.
But in that case, there's none of the moral or political nonsense usually associated
changing (updating?) sexual orientation.
.

Folks please do not take this as a form of stirring the pot. I have no agenda here other than gaining insight.
Ok that said if this is true, then couldn't someone who wanted to conform to social and moral pressure use such therapies in order to change their preference to heterosexual? (assuming they wanted to conform)

KS

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Having met a number of people who chose to undergo sex-change operations, that "halfsie" is how some described themselves, on days when things weren't going as they had hoped. - Whether it was the guy, who was now spending all day cleaning out the fridge, or any other number of commonly accepted womanly chores that he wasn't crazy about. - And so forth.

I've heard that a lot of people who get sex change operations are still dissatisfied with their bodies and gendered identities after the operation, but I don't know to what extent this occurs as I haven't done much information gathering on it. 'Halfies' sort of implies that they still feel as if their gendered identity is not 'complete' in some way. Is that how the people you have met feel? Not complete?

To be honest, I'm not sure what sex change has anything to do with sexual orientation. The few people I've met who have had sex changes retained the same sexual orientation throughout their lives, but wanted to change their sex in order to reflect their self-identity. So, a woman I've met was born male and was always attracted to females, but wanted to change her sex to female as it reflected her self-identity. I'm assuming that sexual orientation doesn't typically change after the operation, right?

[Annie Zero]

Originally Posted by sorter

OBVIOUSLY, no body of knowledge or discipline fully understands how impulses or preferences develop.
Where does anyone get off deciding a particular preference is inborn and can't be changed?
And it is exactly that--a decision, conscious or not, political or not.

So when did you ~decide~ to become straight?

[sorter]

Originally Posted by Annie Zero

So when did you ~decide~ to become straight?

If my post pushed a button I'd love to hear about that.
It would/could make for a constructive thread.

Your question is presumptuous. I haven't decided anything.
I see no need to define my sexual orientation.
Desire and impulses have a life of their own.
Defining them is usually pointless and just gets in the way.
.

[knowledgeseeker]

Originally Posted by sorter

To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human.
.

I like that!!
KS

[ZephyrusX]

I like this and I have been thinking about the notion of just not labelling my sexual orientation period. I am mostly attracted to other women, but I'll some times meet a guy that I feel attracted to, which causes some cognitive dissonance. 'I'm not suppose to be attracted to guys!' This serves no useful purpose and only potentially limits me from acting on my actual impulses. I suppose I could just slap a 'bisexual' label on my self, but then that seems to imply that I ought to be equally attracted to both sexes all the time, which I'm not.

I'm not sure how to answer the original question as I can see evidence suggesting that sexual orientation is inherent and evidence suggesting that it is influenced by our environment to some degree. In the end, I'm not really sure if it makes a difference. If sexual orientation is malleable, it doesn't mean that you have to change it. You don't need to discourse of immutability to tell religious fundamentalists and mental health practitioners that they are wrong for discriminating against marginal sexual orientations.

I'd rather adopt a mindset that gives me the liberty to explore my sexual orientation as I please without getting worked up over social mores and labels.

Originally Posted by sorter

Your question is presumptuous. I haven't decided anything.
I see no need to define my sexual orientation.
Desire and impulses have a life of their own.
Defining them is usually pointless and just gets in the way.
.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I'm not sure how to answer the original question as I can see evidence suggesting that sexual orientation is inherent and evidence suggesting that it is influenced by our environment to some degree. In the end, I'm not really sure if it makes a difference.

I think there are far to many factors to be sure about nature/nurture and I agree--I'm not sure how it matters.
Supposedly there was a remote tribe in South America untouched by
civilization and they mostly had heterosexual sex with same sex about 20%
of the time but the older they got the more monogamous and hetero they got.
I.e., that's the "natural" pattern, not that monogamy or heterosexuality are better.

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

If sexual orientation is malleable, it doesn't mean that you have to change it.

Exactly. If we could create and develop any desire we want, then how do you choose?
I suppose all-of-the-above is logical but not necessarily desirable.
And in that case, whatever sexual orientation we start off with is at least somewhat irrelevant.
.