Young and in Need of Intimacy

[David21]

I'm just having some trouble dealing with probably quite normal emotions.

I'm 24 and because of the weird kind of life I have had, I have never dated - I haven't even so much as kissed someone.

Every now and then, like now, I feel such a great need to be intimate with someone, not necessarily in the sexual sense, but just close. Of course it is partly sexual, too.

It's not quite as simple as going out to date, otherwise I would have done that already. Certainly I always keep myself open for it. What I find, though, is that I connect better to slightly older females, which is a bit of a nuisance in a way, because, a lot of the time, in my experience at least, females don't really like the idea of being with a younger guy.

I'm just frustrated and confused about my life. I'm in my sexual prime so I've got all this pent up energy that I have no idea how to release elsewhere. And I'm not really interested in one night stands or paying for an experience, not that there is anything wrong with that, I just want to know someone a little better before I become physical with them.

I just don't know what to do. I've tried everything...anything...even nothing to make something happen and not a single method works. Dating sites are pretty useless, especially if you're a guy, so I've pretty much given up with that.

I guess I'm not looking for advice on how to date; more just advice on how to deal with my need for intimacy until such time that I am dating. Or just to speak to others that are in the same boat might help... Thanks.

[MyEyeIsOpen]

David, you have some limiting beliefs surrounding dating. Like older woman not liking younger guys. The youngest woman I've ever been with is 14 years older than I am. You will have no trouble finding older women. Dating sites also, they work just fine, I've met some lovely people on them.

Maybe what's missing is a teacher. Someone who can show you how to approach older women or write a winning profile?

But before diving into that you might try asking yourself: What do you feel about women? What do you feel about dating? What do you feel about yourself?

Some interesting answers might emerge.

[Clint Cora]

Wanting intimacy is normal and since you have already chosen to experience it only through a dating relationship, then in the meantime you just have to keep busy doing other things. This includes being social with others who share the same interests as you and who knows, maybe something here may lead to a dating opportunity.

And I agree with the other poster about older woman. I too have been with an older woman who was ten years older and it was a great relationship while it lasted. Neither of us had any hangups about it.

[Brutha]

There are a bunch of reasons that can produce the problem of not having enough success.

How many woman did you ask for a date and how did they respond?

[David21]

This is kind of why I gave up with these forums because no-one really ever managed to interpret correctly what I was saying.

I just meant that in my experience, women seemed a bit resistant, not that I actually believed it. I'm actually very aware that older women quite like younger guys; unfortunately, I haven't met that kind of women yet.

I'm not really sure my belief about dating sites is limited. If you're a male, some can be difficult, simply because of the out of proportion male to female ratio. But that's my experience on two of them. But you're definitely right, you can make some wonderful relationships online. And I have made some great friendships on non-dating sites. So yes, it does work; it does depend, though, on what site and in what country perhaps?

As for the questions you've asked me to ask myself, I have asked these on many occasions. And I still do. When I write on the forum about my problems, especially in intimacy, mostly it is assumed that there must be something that I am doing wrong. But does it have to be that the problem is with me? It's not with other people, I wouldn't have thought, but does it have to be with me? I know it seems like an obvious solution; it's not always like that, though. And despite how it sounds, I am always willing to admit if I have an issue that needs tackling or something.

And to the second poster, yes, maybe I have limited myself in only accepting intimacy from dating. I think it might be that I'm ignorant or non-appreciative of the other kinds of intimacy available in life. Probably that is the case.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by David21

This is kind of why I gave up with these forums because no-one really ever managed to interpret correctly what I was saying.

I hear ya.

I've almost given up a few times. I must be a masochist though.

As an 'older woman' now, I feel somewhat qualified to say that yes, we do like younger men, though I think there is a part of us that feels it may be unwise to get involved with someone who is still 'sowing his royal oats' and not quite mature enough to meet our needs. Men in their 20's are notoriously self-absorbed and self-centred...as are many females in that age group.

Not everyone is the same, and I think there are younger men out there who are more mature than others and who can handle us.

It's a PD forum that centres mostly on personal responsability, so even if it is someone elses issue, it can feel like an intervention here at times, to take responsability, even when you know it's not really you. The concept of 'creating your own reality' demands that you take full responsability.

It's a pain in the arse!(;

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by David21

This is kind of why I gave up with these forums because no-one really ever managed to interpret correctly what I was saying.

This is why online forums have a limit although they can be helpful. But nothing beats personal face to face consultations with others. Much less chance of misunderstanding or misinterpretation since communication flows both ways on the spot.

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by David21

I'm 24 and because of the weird kind of life I have had, I have never dated - I haven't even so much as kissed someone.

I'm 27, have gone on two dates so far (when I was 26), and haven't kissed someone yet.

Originally Posted by David21

Every now and then, like now, I feel such a great need to be intimate with someone, not necessarily in the sexual sense, but just close. Of course it is partly sexual, too.

Have definitely experienced this, alternating with feelings of great need to be intimate with someone that were mostly sexual.

Originally Posted by David21

What I find, though, is that I connect better to slightly older females, which is a bit of a nuisance in a way, because, a lot of the time, in my experience at least, females don't really like the idea of being with a younger guy.

I've definitely had feelings of "the only women who are into the same stuff as me are a lot older--old enough to not want anything to do with me--so I'm screwed!" in the past. In my case, the "same stuff" in question was an interest in personal development. So finding this forum, which has many women members who are my own age or younger, pretty much "cured" me of such fears. But you said that you're basing this off of your personal offline experience, as opposed to a theoretical "out there" (which was more where my worries stemmed from), so I can see why that wouldn't comfort you the way it did me.

Originally Posted by David21

I'm just frustrated and confused about my life. I'm in my sexual prime so I've got all this pent up energy that I have no idea how to release elsewhere.

I figured out how to release it elsewhere, but what worked for me might not work for you.

Originally Posted by David21

Dating sites are pretty useless, especially if you're a guy, so I've pretty much given up with that.

Yeah, I haven't had much success with dating websites, in terms of getting actual dates. Those two I mentioned above were with the one woman I met offline after meeting her on OkCupid, out of the couple of hundred or so to whom I sent messages. A number of people on these forums seem convinced that dating websites are objectively a great way to meet people, but I wonder how much of that is based on their own personal compatibility with the medium. (It's like someone saying that chess is the greatest game in the world. I mean, sure, if you love playing it... )

Originally Posted by David21

I guess I'm not looking for advice on how to date; more just advice on how to deal with my need for intimacy until such time that I am dating. Or just to speak to others that are in the same boat might help... Thanks.

I'm here for ya, man. In my case, working on Non-Attachment was what finally got me past the feelings of need around relationships.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by David21

This is kind of why I gave up with these forums because no-one really ever managed to interpret correctly what I was saying.

This is one reason why I would resist becoming intimate with you: you are very critical and have high expectations. It is difficult to build something - anything - with people who are critical.

Good mood is essential for building intimacy.

Originally Posted by David21

As for the questions you've asked me to ask myself, I have asked these on many occasions. And I still do. When I write on the forum about my problems, especially in intimacy, mostly it is assumed that there must be something that I am doing wrong. But does it have to be that the problem is with me? It's not with other people, I wouldn't have thought, but does it have to be with me? I know it seems like an obvious solution; it's not always like that, though. And despite how it sounds, I am always willing to admit if I have an issue that needs tackling or something.

If you believe you are the reason for what is going on in your life, you can always changing the events of your life. There is no other creating force in your life except of yourself. Can you see any?

Originally Posted by David21

And to the second poster, yes, maybe I have limited myself in only accepting intimacy from dating. I think it might be that I'm ignorant or non-appreciative of the other kinds of intimacy available in life. Probably that is the case.

I have learned that intimacy can be easily learned with friends. When I was in high school, I used to have a very good friend. We were holding hands, hugging and dancing together. There was nothing sexual, just friendship. I think this friendship helped me a lot through life. I wonder if you have a female friend with whom to practice this kind of connection.

[Brutha]

When I write on the forum about my problems, especially in intimacy, mostly it is assumed that there must be something that I am doing wrong. But does it have to be that the problem is with me? It's not with other people, I wouldn't have thought, but does it have to be with me?

This forum is about taking personal responsibility.
If you don't want to take personal responsibility this forum is the wrong place for yourself.

As far as this question goes, there are other people who have success. Right in your city there are men who have relationship with woman.

I guess I'm not looking for advice on how to date; more just advice on how to deal with my need for intimacy until such time that I am dating.

Learn dancing. Salsa or Tango. It will need a few months.
Afterwards you are able to dance intimately with girls.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

This is one reason why I would resist becoming intimate with you: you are very critical and have high expectations. It is difficult to build something - anything - with people who are critical.

I don't see how expressing frustration at never being interpreted the way you are meaning things to be "very critical" though? It is incredibly frustrating to have to keep repeating yourself. That's just human to express frustration at not being understood I think. I think you are only seeing it from your point of view here, and kinda being critical of him being critical.

If anything it is a lack of patience he displays, since the internet is notoriously rife with misinterpretation. When it's just words on a screen it's hard to read it right at times. When it happens a lot though, I can understand his frustration.

It's happened loads of times to me, and I don't like wasting my time repeating myself just to be understood. Is that having high expectations or is it just valuing my time and life enough to not want to waste it unnecessarily? I guess I don't see it the way you do though...I interpret it a different way, and that interpretation is based on empathizing from his position.

Just because he displays impatience does not mean he is always in a bad mood and therefore doesn't have what it takes to be intimate though. We can all get in bad moods sometimes.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I don't see how expressing frustration at never being interpreted the way you are meaning things to be "very critical" though? It is incredibly frustrating to have to keep repeating yourself. That's just human to express frustration at not being understood I think. I think you are only seeing it from your point of view here, and kinda being critical of him being critical.

I see the situation in the following terms:

OP: come to the forums and asks for advice

P1: option 1
OP: reject

P2: option 2
OP: reject

P3: option 3
OP: reject

The message I get from such people is "rejection" of all incoming proposals. I do not see how being so closed and rejecting everything that comes in is a good start for seeking intimacy.

Another thing is to blame others for not being understood. It just never occurred to me to sit down and blame the audience for not getting what I meant to say. It is my own responsibility to pass a message that is clear. Blaming others never solved anything in my life. Just a waste of time.

I also think it is not polite to blame people who try to help.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by David21

I'm just having some trouble dealing with probably quite normal emotions.

I'm 24 and because of the weird kind of life I have had, I have never dated - I haven't even so much as kissed someone.

Every now and then, like now, I feel such a great need to be intimate with someone, not necessarily in the sexual sense, but just close. Of course it is partly sexual, too.

It's not quite as simple as going out to date, otherwise I would have done that already. Certainly I always keep myself open for it. What I find, though, is that I connect better to slightly older females, which is a bit of a nuisance in a way, because, a lot of the time, in my experience at least, females don't really like the idea of being with a younger guy.

I'm just frustrated and confused about my life. I'm in my sexual prime so I've got all this pent up energy that I have no idea how to release elsewhere. And I'm not really interested in one night stands or paying for an experience, not that there is anything wrong with that, I just want to know someone a little better before I become physical with them.

I just don't know what to do. I've tried everything...anything...even nothing to make something happen and not a single method works. Dating sites are pretty useless, especially if you're a guy, so I've pretty much given up with that.

I guess I'm not looking for advice on how to date; more just advice on how to deal with my need for intimacy until such time that I am dating. Or just to speak to others that are in the same boat might help... Thanks.

When reading this, it sounds like you're sending out an SOS looking to be saved.

And I get the feeling that the problem is not the methods you're using, but more the vibe you're giving off.

So I'd recommend you make your no.1 priority; working on being self-fulfilled and content just the way you are, and feeling comfortable in your own skin, and finding ways to enjoy your life regardless of what's going on around you...

Good luck..

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I see the situation in the following terms:

OP: come to the forums and asks for advice

P1: option 1
OP: reject

P2: option 2
OP: reject

P3: option 3
OP: reject

The message I get from such people is "rejection" of all incoming proposals. I do not see how being so closed and rejecting everything that comes in is a good start for seeking intimacy.

Another thing is to blame others for not being understood. It just never occurred to me to sit down and blame the audience for not getting what I meant to say. It is my own responsibility to pass a message that is clear. Blaming others never solved anything in my life. Just a waste of time.

I also think it is not polite to blame people who try to help.

I just don't see that a person has to accept everything that is said to him. It sounds like you do though. Just because he does not accept what some people are saying, and feels they are not interpreting him the way he intended, has no bearing on his capacity for intimacy. I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion? He's not trying to be intimate with anyone here...he wants to be intimate with women.

Personally I don't think it is wise to take on everything people say. It's good to be a little discerning and know what sounds right for you and what doesn't. People don't always know what is best for someone else, and just because they offer their advice does not mean it is advice he 'should' take.

Expressing frustration at not being understood isn't the same as blaming though, at least, I don't see it that way. I see him just expressing frustration. Everything is open for interpretation, and it's a fact that the internet makes it hard to always interpret what a person is saying accurately.

I thought his message was pretty clear, but other people may not have interpreted the way he intended. Does that mean it's his fault? How is it that I interpreted what he was saying then if he didn't put the message across clearly enough?

Sometimes people just don't read the whole post right. It happens, I do it sometimes, so it's natural that he'd be frustrated. This forum is a place where people can feel free to express whatever, so why not express frustration at not being interpreted right? There's nothing wrong with that is there?

Sometimes you can put a message across as clearly as possible and still people will not read it the way you intended it to be read. It doesn't even mean it's his responsability either...just that the internet makes it hard at times to always interpret what people mean.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I just don't see that a person has to accept everything that is said to him. It sounds like you do though. Just because he does not accept what some people are saying, and feels they are not interpreting him the way he intended, has no bearing on his capacity for intimacy. I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion? He's not trying to be intimate with anyone here...he wants to be intimate with women.

Yeah, but if you're at someones house and all of a sudden you say "I don't think I'm enjoying my time here" it is considered fairly rude, so the same could probably be said about an internet forum, to a lesser extent, I guess..

Maybe AG was a bit critical herself, but he said he was looking for advice..

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Yeah, but if you're at someones house and all of a sudden you say "I don't think I'm enjoying my time here" it is considered fairly rude, so the same could probably be said about an internet forum, to a lesser extent, I guess..

Maybe AG was a bit critical herself, but he said he was looking for advice..

He didn't say he wasn't enjoying his time here though, he said he hesitated to post his issues here because people tend to misinterpret him and not understand. Loads of people have complained about this issue in the past here, so it's not like it is anything new or unique for this person. He was frustrated, and he expressed it...so what?

I don't think the way he said it was rude or impolite...just straightforward and honestly what he felt. Usually when you ask for advice though you want to get advice based on what you are actually talking about, not on misinterpretations right?

I'm obviously the minority here though.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I don't think the way he said it was rude or impolite...just straightforward and honestly what he felt. Usually when you ask for advice though you want to get advice based on what you are actually talking about, not on misinterpretations right?

I'm obviously the minority here though.

I think you got a good point and can see what you're saying now.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by skyfly

That's exactly what I want to say.

Well you and me can form the 'rude crew'!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by brendannz

I think you got a good point and can see what you're saying now.

Yay...victory is mine!

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by David21

I'm just having some trouble dealing with probably quite normal emotions.

I'm 24 and it. What I find, though, is that I connect better to slightly older females, which is a bit of a nuisance in a way, because, a lot of the time, in my experience at least, females don't really like the idea of being with a younger guy.

Thanks.

There are many older women that are looking for younger guys. They are called 'cougars.'

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I just don't see that a person has to accept everything that is said to him. It sounds like you do though. Just because he does not accept what some people are saying, and feels they are not interpreting him the way he intended, has no bearing on his capacity for intimacy. I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion? He's not trying to be intimate with anyone here...he wants to be intimate with women.

Personally I don't think it is wise to take on everything people say. It's good to be a little discerning and know what sounds right for you and what doesn't. People don't always know what is best for someone else, and just because they offer their advice does not mean it is advice he 'should' take.

Expressing frustration at not being understood isn't the same as blaming though, at least, I don't see it that way. I see him just expressing frustration. Everything is open for interpretation, and it's a fact that the internet makes it hard to always interpret what a person is saying accurately.

I thought his message was pretty clear, but other people may not have interpreted the way he intended. Does that mean it's his fault? How is it that I interpreted what he was saying then if he didn't put the message across clearly enough?

Sometimes people just don't read the whole post right. It happens, I do it sometimes, so it's natural that he'd be frustrated. This forum is a place where people can feel free to express whatever, so why not express frustration at not being interpreted right? There's nothing wrong with that is there?

Sometimes you can put a message across as clearly as possible and still people will not read it the way you intended it to be read. It doesn't even mean it's his responsability either...just that the internet makes it hard at times to always interpret what people mean.

I do not think anyone has to accept anything. It is about listening. It's a great skill, can save lives, even our own. It is good when people can listen and don't consider everyone as fools who don't know anything anyway.

And, no, somehow, I do not see being ungrateful as being an outlet for frustration.

Intentions? In my work - which involves giving advice to people - I have understood one thing: until you sign a 20 pages contract, there are no clear intentions. Few people know what's on their mind, even less what's on other fellows' minds. To expect that people will understand what you want to say, is to have expectations which are not justified.

I do believe in responsibility and gaining value from it. If I am in a meeting or at university and I say something that colleagues or students don't get, IT IS MY FAULT! I did not transmit the message correctly, did not give enough information, did not make the right connections between the ideas.

There is one more thing. There are things people say and we don't like and don't feel comfortable with. Well, those are issues that, if one works on, can get you far, further than you already are. Telling things that people like will not do them a favor.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yay...victory is mine!

I thought this was a forum for personal development, not for wars

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I thought this was a forum for personal development, not for wars

I didn't realize this was a war...just a disagreement.

I was joking with brendan btw, because he actually saw the point I was making, and validated it.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I didn't realize this was a war...just a disagreement.

I was joking with brendan btw, because he actually saw the point I was making, and validated it.

It's true. We still did not use any artillery, infantry or nuclear guns

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I didn't realize this was a war...just a disagreement.

I was joking with brendan btw, because he actually saw the point I was making, and validated it.

I think you both made excellent points, and I really enjoyed referreeing your bout

[elucidate]

Yes, and I did not bring my armor or sword, so without those, I'm pretty much stuffed.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by brendannz

I think you both made excellent points, and I really enjoyed referreeing your bout

You make an excellent referee. I shall have to buy you a nice new whistle and stripey shirt.

[David21]

I'm not going to make any particular response to any points above, although I have read them all. Thank you.

Firstly, it's not that I'm too critical or that my standards are too high. Actually, I will make a direct point - AlmostGoddess - you don't know me in person and it's that kind of unfair comment about being intimate with me that really gets me down. You said that without the slightest clue for who I am. You don't know me in person. You don't know my life. You don't know my past. You don't know the life I lead now. You know nothing about me. What you said was very unfair. I was simply expressing a little frustration, as I'm sure you have and still do at times. I seem to get stuck in a difficult circle, where I try to understand my life and fix it, fail, fall into frustration, which then motivates further life analysis and possible attempts at repair, which goes on to what seems like more failure, leading to frustration...and so on. If I'm critical with anyone, it will be with myself, because I'm forever trying to figure out what's wrong with me. My problem, I think, is that I think there is something wrong with me. Maybe, truly, there is nothing wrong and nothing to fix besides the idea that there is something wrong and something to fix? I'm frustrated and I'm sorry if I came across as rude.

I was expressing frustration. And I am frustrated. I later realised that it's not really anyone's fault about the misinterpretation thing. It's just the problem with words on a screen - they are limited at conveying a message, so misinterpretation is going to happen. As for my comment about the forum, well, that was true and something I stand by, not as a personal insult against the forum, but as a personal observation. But as I've explained above, I don't blame it on any one. Misinterpretation does and will happen by virtue of the fact that we are all trying to express very complex and detailed matters of our lives to people that don't really know us and using words that are always going to be limited.

And a lot of you seem to have very, very powerful beliefs about life and how it works. AlmostGoddess, you seem to think that the person is the creating power in life. I will not argue with this, but I will urge you to consider what it is you really think of as 'yourself' - who is this 'me', this creative force in the universe? Ask yourself 'what is this Self to which I give so much power'. And ask yourself whether you are something separate in the universe or whether your very Being is inextricable with the universe. Ask yourself these questions before you take any stance on what you believe is really true and that goes to not just AlmostGoddess, but to all of us, including me. That is another thing I have noticed here - a lot of people have such powerful beliefs and opinions which are totally unshakable. Some people truly, truly believe in their own convictions, not considering for a moment that they themselves might be wrong. Now, there is nothing wrong with this per se, though when you use these convictions to criticize others, that's when you step into being unfair and making a mistake. A lot of people here, especially in other forums, talk as though they have it all worked out, as though they really know what is what, what is True and what is not, what life is all about and how it works - do you really have it worked out, or do just like to think you do?

A lot of people speak of personal development, yet they do this without questioning what it is they are trying to develop. Who is at the centre of personal development? Can you pin down this Self that needs developing? If I was to ask you whether your Being is a mind, or a body, or both, or neither, could any one that asserts the power of personal development give me a proper answer? Don't respond to this. For once just try thinking about it rather than trying to sound clever and blowing out hot air. I guess I don't have the answers, but that I haven't found an answer is meaningful in itself.

Any way, I really am going off track. I'm sorry. Back to what I was saying. Yes, I am frustrated at the moment. I don't understand what's going on in what I would call 'my' life. I don't know.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by David21

That is another thing I have noticed here - a lot of people have such powerful beliefs and opinions which are totally unshakable. Some people truly, truly believe in their own convictions, not considering for a moment that they themselves might be wrong.

I've noticed the exact same thing, but whenever I try and mention it I get cut down with people telling me I'm not taking responsability.

It's crap!

I've been accused of all sorts of stuff on this forum, from being racist, to being anti-man...all assumptions from people who don't even know me and who couldn't even consider the possibility that they might be wrong.

To me that's abusing the whole personal responsability thing that PD people love to spout.

Sometimes people just don't read your words the way you meant them, and they form all sorts of wacky meanings without considering they might not have read your post the right way. They then turn it around and say it's your responsability for not spelling it out to them. it's not your responsability that other people CAN'T READ!

I'm glad someone else here has noticed this!

[David21]

Some people seem to get a lot out of it and that's good if it helps. It's not for everyone, though.

Elucidate, I would have sent you a PM to ask, but I cannot. You don't have to answer this publically - ignore this if that would be easier - though may I ask why you stay?