[ADULT] About my (sexual and other) relationship with my husband

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

As someone who was in ssandras husbands situation before, I have to agree with agsags. Her talking about it just made me anxious about it and it did kill my desire for her.

I think there is an opportunity here for ssandra to learn some new forms of seducing her husband. I think that's why the "its none of my business" thing seems to be working for now. Its her pulling away from him, which ultimately makes him desire her more.

You're seeing this a bit wrong. This is not me pulling away and thereby making him desire me more. We tried that as well (me going out a lot with friends, me saying no at times when he would want sex, etc.) and it didn't work.

This is me being closer to him. Me accepting him 100% as he is, without any trying to change him going on.

I can see how talking about these things might make you anxious. After all, this is the reason why your marriage failed. So I can understand how you might have a difficult time seeing someone else work this out.

Originally Posted by agsags

Yes, it's the job of his male buddies to help him on that path . There is a huge gap between knowing the truth and living that truth. However every time you even discuss this particular topic with him (connection between weight/lifestyle and sex drive), it kills at least part of his sexual desire for you.

It's nobodies 'job' to do anything. It is my husbands choice, and his free choice and his choice is none of my business, unless it is a deal breaker for me. None of my business in the sense of; I am not going to make his choice for him. Not by talking to him about it myself, and especially not by talking to his friends about it behind his back!!

Of course I'll mention things like "grains aren't good for you, let me make you a soup instead of cornflakes", but if he chooses grains, that is his choice.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

How about I fly down and we get a bottle of tequilla

That's a small advertisement of me below. Good enough for the masses,
good enough for ssandra

You missed the entire first part of the post didn't you? The one where I talk about not wanting to have sex with anyone except my husband?

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by ssandra

You missed the entire first part of the post didn't you? The one where I talk about not wanting to have sex with anyone except my husband?

That's why I mentioned the bottle, that might make you change your mind,
especially after I massage your back, and tell you how I am going to massage
a few other things until you reach a moment where you forget that you even
have a husband for about 15 seconds...give a take a second or two

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

You're seeing this a bit wrong. This is not me pulling away and thereby making him desire me more. We tried that as well (me going out a lot with friends, me saying no at times when he would want sex, etc.) and it didn't work.

This is me being closer to him. Me accepting him 100% as he is, without any trying to change him going on.

I can see how talking about these things might make you anxious. After all, this is the reason why your marriage failed. So I can understand how you might have a difficult time seeing someone else work this out.

I got over this issue a long time ago, ssandra. Remember, I'm just sharing stuff from my experience because our experiences are similar. Like I said, I'm rooting for you, but I'm also seeing you go down the same path my ex and I went. (At least based on your posts about it, anyway.) So far, you're doing all the things we did. That's why I jump into these threads when you make them.

(Just wanted to clear that up, because there's no anxiousness or apprehension on this end, just a "been there, done that, here's what I learned" insight to throw in the mix. This is an extremely common situation--I've seen it hundreds of times on message boards, and there are a lot of common elements to each of the situations I've observed and the one I experienced, and the one you are relating to us here.)

Accepting him as he is IS you pulling away. That's kinda my point. Up until now, you haven't accepted him as he is and you've been trying to micro-change him and he's felt that. Now that you are accepting him how he is, you aren't doing that anymore, so you did ultimately pull away. And he probably feels that. And, in another sense, it's a bit of a mental pull-away, which can also be felt by people you are intimate with. After all, when you change yourself, your entire physiology and body language changes along with you. (It's why the "who I am is the possibility" thing is so powerful.)

Actually, the whole "pull-away" thing is probably one of the best things for both of you. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, and being overly available can actually turn people away. I think it would be an interesting experiment for you if the next time he initiates sex, you turned him down. I know how skeezy that sounds, but I think you'll see that he'll be a bit thrown off about it. Perhaps even angry. And I don't mean that from a "get him back" perspective. Just from a "don't always be available to him" perspective.

[ZenPhysicist]

SSandra,

You brought up a very interesting topic. I have been staying away from these kinds of topics because they seem to invite controversy. But I feel for you. I don't mean to second guess your proclamation that you don't want anyone else, but this seems to be a situation where the right person will be able to sweep you off your feet. The way I see it, in a relationship you deserve to be sexually desired. That is a right LOL. Your rights are being infringed. Of course there are exceptions (medical conditions, temporary lulls, etc.) I wish you the best, but judging from your pic you look relatively young. Your solution to just not worry about it and be more loving is a short term fix. Its not a 20+ year solution. I would rather you said "I am not going to blame him for our lousy sex life until I can say that I have been at the top of my game in looks, dress, and sex appeal for 6 months" THAT is taking charge in my opinion because you are taking control but still going toward the desirable outcome. Now, it seems you have given up. But, this is all just my opinion. Thanks for sharing and good luck!

[alexplatups]

Here's a song that you can listen to and think that your husband ordered it:

YouTube - ‪Cinderella - Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)‬‏

I can't tell ya baby what went wrong
I can't make you feel what you felt so long ago
I'll let it show
I can't give you back what's been hurt
Heartaches come and go and all that's left are the words
I can't let go
If we take some time to think it over baby
Take some time, let me know
If you really want to go

Don't know what you got till it's gone
Don't know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It's just this song
And it ain't easy to get back
Takes so long

I can't feel the things that cause you pain
I can't clear my heart of your love it falls like rain
Ain't the same
I hear you calling far away
Tearing through my soul I just can't take another day
Who's to blame
If we take some time to think it over baby
Take some time let me know
If you really wanna go

Don't know what you got till it's gone
Don't know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It's just this song
And it ain't easy to get back
Takes so long

Do you wanna see me beggin' baby
Can't you give me just one more day
Can't you see my heart's been draggin' lately
I've been lookin' for the words to say

Don't know what you got till it's gone
Don't know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It's just this song
And it ain't easy to get back
Takes so long

Don't know what you got till it's gone no
Don't know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It's just this song
And it ain't easy to get back
Takes so long

`Cinderella - Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone) Lyrics

[Lauxa]

Hi Sandra,

Hooray for more sex with husbands!

I just want to say that when I started expressing more care for my husband, he started wanting to have more sex with me. Especially massage, just offering to rub his back, his head, his feet, his hands. But not to do it to try and get him to have sex with me, just because I wanted to channel some of my sexual energy into providing physical care to him. And suddenly we go from having sex an average of once a month to maybe 10-15 times a month. I'm still adjusting to the change.

We can only control what we think and do, and that's hard enough without taking on anyone else's choices!

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

Actually, the whole "pull-away" thing is probably one of the best things for both of you. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, and being overly available can actually turn people away. I think it would be an interesting experiment for you if the next time he initiates sex, you turned him down. I know how skeezy that sounds, but I think you'll see that he'll be a bit thrown off about it. Perhaps even angry. And I don't mean that from a "get him back" perspective. Just from a "don't always be available to him" perspective.

One of the reasons that I *know* this is you talking about YOUR situation instead of mine, is because you don't listen to me, and to what I am saying. You have your own tunnel vision.

This is why:

Originally Posted by ssandra

You're seeing this a bit wrong. This is not me pulling away and thereby making him desire me more. We tried that as well (me going out a lot with friends, me saying no at times when he would want sex, etc.) and it didn't work.

I'll give another go at why this is not me pulling away, mentally or psychically.

I believe you can only be the closest to someone if you see and love and accept them for who they are, totally and completely.

Not loving most of them, but really disliking part of them... (dislike actions, sure, but don't confuse actions with them..)

There is no way I could be pulling away from him by being more accepting about who he is. If you see it differently, I'd be glad to hear your explanation about this.

Again; I think your situation is hugely different from ours, where only the outside looks the same.

Don't confuse yourself now with the person you used to be while in your marriage. I highly doubt that the person you used to be would have taken a conscious approach to this issue...

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by ZenPhysicist

SSandra,

You brought up a very interesting topic. I have been staying away from these kinds of topics because they seem to invite controversy. But I feel for you. I don't mean to second guess your proclamation that you don't want anyone else, but this seems to be a situation where the right person will be able to sweep you off your feet. The way I see it, in a relationship you deserve to be sexually desired. That is a right LOL. Your rights are being infringed. Of course there are exceptions (medical conditions, temporary lulls, etc.) I wish you the best, but judging from your pic you look relatively young. Your solution to just not worry about it and be more loving is a short term fix. Its not a 20+ year solution. I would rather you said "I am not going to blame him for our lousy sex life until I can say that I have been at the top of my game in looks, dress, and sex appeal for 6 months" THAT is taking charge in my opinion because you are taking control but still going toward the desirable outcome. Now, it seems you have given up. But, this is all just my opinion. Thanks for sharing and good luck!

It all comes down to individual values. For me sex isn't a deal breaker. For others it might be. There is nothing wrong with either choice.

Also; I know that I am desired by him That is not the question. The problem is the actual sex, not the desire.

(for the record I am 29 and we've been together for almost 7 years, almost 5 years married).

[ssandra]

I want to say THANK YOU to all the people who have show support for me in this thread (and in the past) and actually *get* where I am coming from.

Being at cause is a different mindset. It isn't always easy to understand and to see what it is that you are doing (or being) that is causing this.

But once you subscribe to it, take on the perspective of being at cause, the magic is instantly and wonderful!

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

One of the reasons that I *know* this is you talking about YOUR situation instead of mine, is because you don't listen to me, and to what I am saying. You have your own tunnel vision.

This does not look like 100% responsibility to me, ssandra. Who are you being that *I* am not listening to you?

(I know that's not a 100% responsible question for ME to ask YOU. I'm just pitching it out there, though. My own take -- for myself that is -- is to ask myself why you don't feel heard.)

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

This does not look like 100% responsibility to me, ssandra. Who are you being that *I* am not listening to you?

(I know that's not a 100% responsible question for ME to ask YOU. I'm just pitching it out there, though. My own take -- for myself that is -- is to ask myself why you don't feel heard.)

it is not as much that I don't feel heard, it is more that I don't feel understood by you. And I know where that comes from, and I will (and am) working on that.

And thank you for bringing that to my attention. I appreciate it.

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

it is not as much that I don't feel heard, it is more that I don't feel understood by you. And I know where that comes from, and I will (and am) working on that.

And thank you for bringing that to my attention. I appreciate it.

Thanks back to you for taking what I said in. PM me if you want. I'd like to work through this with you. (The issues between me and you, I mean.)

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I believe you can only be the closest to someone if you see and love and accept them for who they are, totally and completely.

Not loving most of them, but really disliking part of them... (dislike actions, sure, but don't confuse actions with them..)

For quite a while, I've disliked the idea of a person's negative actions and the things they do that "drag me down" being the things that define my relationship with them. Yet that's the place that a significant portion of relationship advice comes from. I like that you fly in the face of that and provide an example worth learning from.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

Thanks back to you for taking what I said in. PM me if you want. I'd like to work through this with you. (The issues between me and you, I mean.)

It is funny cause what is happening here from my end is very similar to what i am talking about what is happening with my husband.

So hereby I (in my mind, of course you always had that right already) grant you the freedom to have your own opinion on this and everything.

I will explain where I think you might have misunderstood me, but your conclusion on any situation are your own and it is not my job to make you change your mind.

When I feel inspired to I can try and change my communication to see if I can explain myself better, without making it a must for any communication.

Thank you for the generous listening and help you have given me (now and in the past).

And thank you Universe to present me with opportunities to practice more of what I am preaching...

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

It is funny cause what is happening here from my end is very similar to what i am talking about what is happening with my husband.

Don't take this in a snarky way (because that's not how I'm intending it...I mean it more in an inquisitive way)....but what is the common denominator here?

Originally Posted by ssandra

I will explain where I think you might have misunderstood me, but your conclusion on any situation are your own and it is not my job to make you change your mind.

Bear in mind, while I'd like to understand your POV better, I think it's more useful for you to explore why you feel so misunderstood. You're right, it's not your job to get me (or your husband) to change my mind or to arrive at the conclusion you think we should arrive at. It's only important for you to understand why the conflict exists in the first place (and in what ways you might be feeding it). That last part being especially important because, while you take a stance of 100% responsibility, that does not mean you are 100% responsible for the conflict. It just means that you are 100% responsible for resolving the conflict IN YOURSELF. And, when that happens, one of two things tends to happen:

1. The conflict resolves itself

OR

2. The situation that causes the conflict is removed from your orbit.

I can tell you that the conflict between me and you is a shared conflict (i.e. there's stuff for ME to look at as well...and I have and I even see where the conflict is coming from on my part, but that's offtopic of this thread -- and it has nothing to do with my marriage, btw). I'm focusing on YOU because this is your thread and your issue that you want resolved.

Originally Posted by ssandra

When I feel inspired to I can try and change my communication to see if I can explain myself better, without making it a must for any communication.

I can give you a tip for how to cut to the chase (with me anyway): Entertain what I have to say. You don't have to agree with it, or even USE it, but just take it in and let it rattle around in your head a bit. My advice/posts are not 100% spot on for your situation (nor can they be), but there's useful stuff for you in my advice. Focus on THAT, rather than how to explain yourself better to me or the parts of my posts that don't resonate with you. Thus far, it seems, you're honing into the parts you don't like and then rejecting everything else (i.e. you are FILTERING my posts and only seeing the parts you disagree with or that cause a reaction within you). Try another perspective and see if you can't consciously look over what I said and see some useful stuff there for you.

In other words, I'm way more receptive to people who are receptive to me. Sometimes I'm even willing to suspend my own POV and try to understand peeps, but I also have the expectation that at some point, they understand me as well. If that doesn't happen, then I'll either stop focusing on those peeps, or I will hold the **** out of my perspective until they do.

Originally Posted by ssandra

Thank you for the generous listening and help you have given me (now and in the past).

Same to you.

[Le Roi]

That's so wonderful Sandra, and kudos to you for making the courageous shift in perception. It's amazing how often time when we let go of our attachment to something that was important to us, then it tends to manifest in our lives very soon after we let go of that attachment?

I appreciate you sharing that story, it's inspiring and I enjoyed reading it, and I'm happy it's working well for you.

[ssandra]

James,

You are representing for me the opportunity to release the need to control other peoples opinions and ways of being. Which is exactly what I have been doing with the situation with my husband as well. Releasing the need to control other people (opinions, decisions, habits, etc).

I don't feel the need to explain to you, nor to try and get you to understand, nor to change my communication so that my message comes across.

From my point of view you clearly do not understand what I am saying and/or are twisting it to suit your meaning. And that is ok for me.

Maybe at some other time I will feel the need/want/desire to change my communication so that (weather you agree with me or not) you at least understand what I am saying. Right now, I don't.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Le Roi

That's so wonderful Sandra, and kudos to you for making the courageous shift in perception. It's amazing how often time when we let go of our attachment to something that was important to us, then it tends to manifest in our lives very soon after we let go of that attachment?

I appreciate you sharing that story, it's inspiring and I enjoyed reading it, and I'm happy it's working well for you.

Thank you!!

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

From my point of view you clearly do not understand what I am saying and/or are twisting it to suit your meaning. And that is ok for me.

I don't think you've allowed me the opportunity to understand.

I re-read your posts on the first page, and I get what you're saying. You're saying that you have decided to allow your husband be exactly who he is, that you aren't going to try and change him, and that you are going to learn to live with the situation as it is (that last part was something you specifically said at the end of your post talking about what you meant by "it's none of your business.")

And I think I even get that "none of your business" is just your way of saying that your husband's perspectives and his sex drives (and his weight and all that) is HIS business and not something that it's your job to change. You accept him the way he is, and decide if that's something you're willing to live with. (And that, by doing that, you've come to see the external situation shift.)

(Correct me if any of that is wrong or not quite the way you mean it.)

That doesn't change a word of what I've said to you in this thread, though.

[Plays With Life]

I vote ssandra and James use me as a mediator. It seems to me that, to some extent, you're both saying the same thing in different languages. I could stand in the middle and translate so that you both understand.

Bliss Sage - loved the video!

[James81]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I vote ssandra and James use me as a mediator. It seems to me that, to some extent, you're both saying the same thing in different languages. I could stand in the middle and translate so that you both understand.

I agree. If there's one common theme between us, it's that we both feel like the other must be reading our posts in greek or something. LOL

[Plays With Life]

Here's a challenge for both of you.

Whenever you talk to each other on the forums, use the 3-post rule. That rule is: When the other person expresses something, you don't express anything about or related to your point of view for three posts in that thread. Instead, you have to Ask Questions about the point (or points) the other person expressed. You must ask 3 posts-worth of questions about every post the other person makes.

I think what happens is, one or the other of you reads something the other person says, interprets it one way - which happens to not be the way they were intending for it to be interpreted - and then responds to that (internally-created) interpretation. It's like you're talking to yourself, and not the other person. If, instead, you would ask questions about what the other person has expressed - you could first verify (and if necessary, adjust) your own interpretation - hopefully bringing it into a closer match with the *intended* expression. Then, you could respond to the *intended* expression (rather than your own internally-generated interpretation, which you made up).

[DANDUNGAN]

That makes sense to me.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

I don't think you've allowed me the opportunity to understand.

I re-read your posts on the first page, and I get what you're saying. You're saying that you have decided to allow your husband be exactly who he is, that you aren't going to try and change him, and that you are going to learn to live with the situation as it is (that last part was something you specifically said at the end of your post talking about what you meant by "it's none of your business.")

And I think I even get that "none of your business" is just your way of saying that your husband's perspectives and his sex drives (and his weight and all that) is HIS business and not something that it's your job to change. You accept him the way he is, and decide if that's something you're willing to live with. (And that, by doing that, you've come to see the external situation shift.)

(Correct me if any of that is wrong or not quite the way you mean it.)

That doesn't change a word of what I've said to you in this thread, though.

You did understand most of that correctly (although, I am not going to live with the situation as it is, situations are fluent, they change from moment to moment. I have decided to accept HIM as he is. Not the situation perse, although that flows sort of from it).

Do I understand you correctly that you belief that this method (accepting him as he is, flaw, bad decisions and all) won't work long term and that it comes from a place of a limiting belief instead of free choice?

And that you belief that the only way this can change (the situation) and I can have a happy marriage is if he changes (wants sex more) or I leave the relationship?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by James81

I agree. If there's one common theme between us, it's that we both feel like the other must be reading our posts in greek or something. LOL

not really... At least... I think I understand your point quite well, I only disagree with it...

[inverse Paranoid]

Originally Posted by James81

Interesting, the "IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS" thing sounds more like a gremlin to me.

It sounds like the exact opposite to me, something that's totally empowering and will help sandra grow in many more ways than just the frequency of sex with her husband. Realizing that other people are none of your business and that everything you want can (and, in the end, must) be achieved through an internal shift frees you from the thoughts that you need to get other people to change to have what you want.

Gratz on the awesome manifestation, Sandra. What a perfect example of what we're all capable of when we're willing to take responsibility, release from attachment, and allow change.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by inverse Paranoid

It sounds like the exact opposite to me, something that's totally empowering and will help sandra grow in many more ways than just the frequency of sex with her husband. Realizing that other people are none of your business and that everything you want can (and, in the end, must) be achieved through an internal shift frees you from the thoughts that you need to get other people to change to have what you want.

Gratz on the awesome manifestation, Sandra. What a perfect example of what we're all capable of when we're willing to take responsibility, release from attachment, and allow change.

Thank you for saying what I meant so much clearer!!


I completely recognize and own here that I am still in baby shoes when it comes to explaining "being at cause". And I see that that might cause some miscommunication or people reading different things in what I am writing.

I am ok with that. This is a learning process.


One thing that I learned here is that although I recognize the value in a conversation to let the other person know that you understand what they wrote, that you tried on their perspective and either take it on or not, I usually skip that phase and go right away to the "I took your perspective" or "your perspective doesn't work well for me".

I do do the process, I just don't publicly say it.

Also, I am realizing now the difference in how I come across when I say "I disagree with your perspective about my situation" and when I would say "I tried on your perspective of my situation and it doesn't work well for me. It doesn't create a state of Joy and Love and Connection and Freedom. The other perspective does".

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Here's a challenge for both of you.

And yes, I realize that I am completely disregarding your challenge

I took on the perspective of taking on this challenge as an exercise in communication and then I took on the perspective of seeing this conversation as a challenge to live out my new perspective of talking to people (yes, more to, and less with in this instance) without trying to make them be wrong, or change them or their opinions or even perspectives.

The second one feels more valuable for me at the moment especially in light of the reason I started this thread.

I will however keep your challenge in mind and apply it some other time when I feel misunderstood. I accept and agree with the value of Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

[inverse Paranoid]

Originally Posted by ssandra

So what happens when a person you love doesn't meet a criteria that you would consider "nice to have" but not a deal breaker? You make the choice to live with it

I think your definition of "IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS" is pretty close to spot on, and I really enjoy seeing this shift in your perspective and envisioning all the benefits that are going to come your way because of it.

However, when you say "you make the choice to live with it" it almost sounds like you're giving up on what you want. But that's not really what you're giving up on. What you're giving up on is your RESISTANCE to what you want. And in the absence of resistance what you want cannot help but come (even 4 times in 8 days!)

Of course, if you tried making the change specifically so that you could get more sex, you probably wouldn't be receiving these benefits. Because if that were your motivation you would be focused on whether or not he was having more sex with you yet from the get-go. You'd be keeping score, and looking for evidence of progress. But when you start looking for evidence of progress and don't see any, what you end up focusing on is lack.

However, in this case, you already made peace with things the way they are. You found joy simply by making this change in your perspective and realizing how much you love your husband. And because you didn't need your external sexual relationship with your husband to change before you could start feeling good, you were able to start feeling good and that change in vibration changed the external relationship with your husband.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that you don't have to "just live with it." You can make peace with what is and still focus on what you want (like all the other awesome qualities that have caused you to choose your husband over every other man), and when you consistently focus on what you DO want, what you want cannot help but come.

Thank you very much for this awesome example!