I feel violated

[fwoom]

I feel really violated and don't know what to do.

For some background, I'm 20, I'm a college student who's not doing much over the summer so I thought I would take on some random jobs/gigs and save up for a trip to Europe I'm taking next year. I'm a pretty talkative and outgoing person, but at the same time, I used to be very shy (conservative Asian upbringing), and when I feel really uncomfortable/pressured about things, I sometimes retreat into my shy shell or become more talkative/normal acting to mask what I feel. I know this isn't a good habit and I'm working on it, but there it is.

So this is what happened. Basically, I was looking on craigslist for some gigs, and there happened to be a lot of modeling gigs (maybe because I live in california?) and a lot of them called for amateurs. It looked really easy so I sent in pictures to a bunch and got a response. The guy offered 3 gigs:

A-cute dressup + bra/panty/stockings/leggings $10/hour 3 to 5 hours
B-cute dressup + bra/panty/stockings/leggings + artistic nudes $35/hour 3 to 5 hours
C-cute dressup + bra/panty/stockings/leggings + artistic/erotic nudes $50/hour 3 to 5 hours

^ that's an exact quote from his email!

His site is at All the Faces

Now is it just me, or do normal people think artistic nudes are more like the sideways picture of a girl lying down, or the ones where you see their back with a big tattoo, or the one from the top where she's reaching up... etc etc? I would consider pictures where she's just sitting with her legs open and her shirt pulled up to her boobs erotic.

So anyway I signed up for B because, I dunno, $10 an hour seemed really cheap (OK I'm moneygrubbing) and artistic nudes didn't seem that bad.


When I got there the guy was kind of shady. He was really nice but he wouldn't let my boyfriend come upstairs to the studio with me, saying that the studio was too small. That kinda set off warning bells for both of us, but I guess we're both too green and unsure how to deal with the situation. So he let me go up alone (his studio wasn't THAT small!!), where the guy had me sign a release form and started taking pics. I told him I was uncomfortable with nude pictures so he agreed to ease into it. And he was really nice about the whole thing. He gave me clothes to wear and we kind of chatted, and he filmed me. He made me put my legs up (in stockings) on the chair I was sitting so it was like a panty shot, and that was kind of weird, but I had never done this before so I didn't think much of it.

And he did kind of ease into it. He had me change into different outfits and then he told me to lift my shirt gradually while he filmed, or take off my underwear. And it got worse and worse. He had me do poses which he called "sexy" such as holding my legs open with my hands on my inner thigh, and took pictures of my vagina. At one point I asked him "I thought this was supposed to be artistic?" and he was like "Yeah, this is art!" And he had me lie on the floor and pose in (pretty tasteless IMO) poses on the floor, half naked, and was like "You want artistic? I'll give you artistic." At one point I was lying on a table with my legs hanging down, and he pulled down the shades to "adjust the lighting" (I was feeling really uncomfortable and resolved to beat him up and run away if he tried to rape me), and while he took the pictures he had one leg up against my crotch. He put one hand on my boob once and I was like "I'm not comfortable with this" and he said "okay" and backed off pretty quickly, going back to standing shots. So it wasn't like he was just not respecting my wishes entirely (I'm outspoken enough, I think, to draw the line and storm out if that happened) but to me it almost felt like he was so nice/soothing/quick to reassure about it that it made it really hard for me to say no. Especially since I knew I would be stepping out of my comfort zone to be posing so much in front of a camera (particularly nude) to begin with. Afterwards I felt really bad about it, and he kept talking about how his job was to push people to their limits and stuff.

Here's the thing though. I feel like I was shooting porn. I mean, short of making me finger myself, he was taking pictures (and videos) of me slowly undressing (AND LOTS OF MY CROTCH), pretty much the whole time. The problem was he was so nice about it... I know it was my fault for not speaking up when it was past my comfort limit, but at the same time as soon as I said anything (terrified and meek) he “soothed me down” and backed off pretty fast.

Later the same day I asked for the pictures not to be distributed and gave him his money back, but I still feel terrible. I feel violated. I am kind of wondering if he saw that I was totally new and inexperienced and just took advantage of me. When I asked for my money back he was like, “Well, you should have said something. I even offered no nudity. You could have said stop and I would have stopped… etc etc” (He showed me some sex toys and was like, “THIS is the erotic shoot, you got exactly what you signed up for”) It made me feel so bad. And the problem is I think he probably would have stopped, I just get the feeling he saw how nervous/inexperienced I was and decided to just keep up the nice guy act while at the same time pushing to see how far I would go (how naked he could get me, how erotic he could get me… etc). Like seeing how much abuse I would put up with before I spoke up.

I feel totally violated. Do I have really different ideas about "artistic nudes" or am I just too naive? I KNOW I should have spoken up but, well, I didn't. Any ideas for what to do now? I feel dirty...

[Andrew Gubb]

Sounds more like softcore porn than artisitic nudes to me...

[nietsdoen]

I'm confused. Why did you ask for your money back if this was a gig? Oh, I see.. well, you know, it's possible he still has the rights to distribute those photos since you signed a release form..

[Michael Chui]

1) I can't find that site. I looked for it and found nothing.

2) That was definitely porn. "Artistic nudes" don't include vagina shots.

3) Modeling is probably how 99% of how those in porn started. I don't know how often a model transitions into porn, even part-time, but if you do another modeling gig, ask why they want nudes. In America, especially (Southern?) California, that smells like porn to me.

4) There's not much you can do, at this point. If it matters to you, save all the information you have on him so that you can track down and prosecute him later on if you find the photos were distributed after all. If it doesn't, then consider yourself a bit less green, with a bit more reason to be wary, and move on.

[agirl]

Sounds like soft porn.

I've never checked modeling gigs on craigslist but I would guess models would get paid more.

[Criseyde]

Hi everyone, I removed the link from the original post, and I removed it again when it got posted again. I did this because I don't want a lot of people clicking through and alerting the site owner that his site is being discussed here -- he could easily find this thread.

[fwoom]

I didn't ask for my money back, he asked for his money back and I gave it to him. He also gave me the copy of the contract which I signed, with a handwritten statement saying that this contract was now null and void (signed by him), so hopefully that is enough to handle any legal issues.

The site link has been removed by the mods just in case he traces site hits back to this thread. (Nietsdoen, could you remove your link too?)

Michael: This is Northern California. It took place in Berkeley, although the Oakland area is definitely somewhat shady...

Thanks for all the responses! Looks like everyone thinks this is softcore porn. I feel somewhat better (although not in the sense that I was totally duped) and think I have a clearer perspective on what happened now. Will definitely be much more wary in the future. D:

[Thai Thach]

Isn't that what you signed up for though?
The only thing the guy did wrong was probably touch you.

Apart from that, I think that if you knew you were going to be uncomfortable in the first place, why degrade yourself and sign up for something like that?

[fwoom]

I don't think that was what I signed up for. An artistic nude is something like this picture IMO, not a picture of your vagina. I don't think something like that is particularly degrading, and I think it is reasonable to expect to be somewhat uncomfortable before a camera (nude or not, although nude particularly so) if it is your first time, you have no experience, and you are somewhat shy.

At any rate, if that was what I signed up for, it wasn't what I THOUGHT I signed up for. But perhaps you are right, I was stupid. Thank you for your brilliant input.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Thai Thach

why degrade yourself and sign up for something like that?

Was that necessary? What other people do with their bodies is their choice. Not everyone agrees that artistic nude photography is degrading. Not everyone even agrees that pornography is degrading. It seems to me like the important factor is consent, which was not fully present in this situation.

[GeorgeMagister]

LARGE EDITS:
What was on that release form, exactly? Did you ask for a copy?

That should always be at your disposal to claim. I would ask him for a copy of it, because it would appear that he is going to use his granted rights over the images as a source of revenue.
(Sorry, I somehow did not see this post. The above is sort of irrelevant now.)

Artistic photos would be rooted in, well, art; and so, it is incredibly subjective. The poses you describe, however, seem like they are intended more for titillation, rather than some sort of statement on the human form. I feel for you, because it seems—to me—that he stretched the boundaries of a sound argument that his process and results are in pursuit of art.

I'm not saying he was lying, either. At face value, it just sounds off.

[elucidate]

It definitely wasn't artistic shots.

The fact that he grabbed your boob halfway through the shoot indicates he is not professional or adept at making a woman feel comfortable for these sort of things. Even though there were no witnesses, have you considered reporting him to the police. If his name goes into the computer and another girl reports him for doing the same thing (which he no doubt does a lot to girls your age) then a case can be built against him.

A professional photographer will make sure his model feels comfortable all the way through the shoot and wont pressure her to do anything she doesn't want to do.

Live and learn.

[ssandra]

To the OP:

You are feeling violated and that is a very real and true feeling that I think is wise to do something.

You feel violated because you had boundaries that you weren't aware of before (you are now) and they got crossed.
It is not a nice feeling at all to notice your boundaries that way, but at least you know better now.

How to deal with these feelings of violation is to recognize them for what they are. A sign that your boundaries were crossed. Make a promise to yourself to not let that happen again, to take better care of yourself.

Learning from our mistakes is the only way to move forward.

take some time to take care of yourself, to spoil yourself a bit. Don't hide your body or move away from it because of this. Get some nice smelling body lotion and shower cream if you have to

To the others in this thread:
Taking this feeling of violated outward to this guy isn't fair in my opinion. He was doing his job, respecting the boundaries that you put up at that moment (stopped when you said no, etc.).

I don't feel that he was doing anything wrong. I actually consider you very lucky that you got a very respectful guy, instead of someone even more shady who might have taken more advantage of you.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by ssandra

To the others in this thread:
Taking this feeling of violated outward to this guy isn't fair in my opinion. He was doing his job, respecting the boundaries that you put up at that moment (stopped when you said no, etc.).

I don't feel that he was doing anything wrong. I actually consider you very lucky that you got a very respectful guy, instead of someone even more shady who might have taken more advantage of you.

I agree with Sandra.

And Craig's List?? I thought it was general knowledge by now that Craig's List is the preferred medium for perverts, murders, sexual deviants etc to find their prey.

I used Craig's List to search for rooms to rent in NYC and anyone who looks enough will begin to see that men and others use that site as a place to find sexual favors, either by duping the prey or by finding a willing partner. And that's when you are answering an ad that is clearly non-sexual at face value, unlike the ad the OP answered.

There are rich men in NYC who are looking for a plaything in their home - they will advertise either free rent or something really cheap like $300/month. When you answer the ad, you learn the catch.

I once had a guy ask me if I was ok with him walking around in his underwear. I said yes. In his next email, he asked me if I was ok with him masturbating with his door open and on the couch. Usch. I didn't answer back and never met the guy.

Another time it took me up to a phone call and a cancelled meeting to realize that the couple in question was looking for a roommate for a threesome.


I only answered ads that were categorically clean and indicated in no way shape or form that there was anything sexual involved - and yet it became clear through some preliminary correspondence that they wanted sexual things from me.

Other guys do say or imply outright, just like in the ad the OP answered, that his intentions are ultimately sexual and he is leaning in that direction. There are hardly even any words to read between the lines. It is good that he didn't do more than he did.

This is Craig's List and this is how it is used. If you can't be weary and careful and check out the person posting the ad very thoroughly to your satisfaction before going through with the deal, then you shouldn't be using Craig's List at all.

[Bliss Sage]

By the way, the OP's account of what happened is screaming with intuition all over the place, before she ever even set foot in the guy's studio. Her intuition was telling her to get out before she even set foot in there. So she should learn to listen to and trust herself when she has those "off" feelings about someone or some situation.

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by ssandra

To the others in this thread:
Taking this feeling of violated outward to this guy isn't fair in my opinion. He was doing his job, respecting the boundaries that you put up at that moment (stopped when you said no, etc.).

I don't feel that he was doing anything wrong. I actually consider you very lucky that you got a very respectful guy, instead of someone even more shady who might have taken more advantage of you.

I don't agree. I think 'artistic nudes' is a highly subjective concept, and if he intended on taking pictures of her crotch, he ought to have said so up front. Giving people information up front empowers them. Not giving it either by lying or just not saying anything (in this case) sort of takes away the idea of consent in my opinion.

But yah... I more or less agree with the rest of your post. What seems important in my mind is for fwoom to learn to recognize and to assert her personal boundaries.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

By the way, the OP's account of what happened is screaming with intuition all over the place, before she ever even set foot in the guy's studio. Her intuition was telling her to get out before she even set foot in there. So she should learn to listen to and trust herself when she has those "off" feelings about someone or some situation.

I didn't read intuition as much as I read fear. If you haven't been in this kind of situation before, you won't really be able to think rationally about it. Your "intuition" is really worthless this way. Imagine going into a combat zone with no combat training, just your intuition. Think it'll be enough to help you be effective? It might, I repeat, might keep you alive, but it won't help you understand anything about the kind of situation you're in. In other words, intuition is no substitute for experience.

Experience would have told her to check the guy out more, experience would have told her that if he was interested in shooting amateurs, that he might not be in it strictly for business reasons, but to take advantage of an innocent's inexperience. But she didn't have experience, so she got taken advantage of.

The right move in this situation would have been to demand full payment for the erotic shoot, and to insist that the erotic shots taken not be distributed, because that's not what she signed up for. Then, of course, she'd have to make sure he kept those terms. Yes it would have been a pain, but that's what she gets going into such a situation with zero experience or business savvy.

[GeorgeMagister]

It's too late to edit my first post, but I was going to further it:

I can't claim authoritatively that he was lying, either. At face value, it just sounds very off. My impression was that he engages in predatory practices, hoping to skate by with passive, unassertive models.

I'll also add that a great pass/fail litmus test is to read reviews or testimonials from models who have previously worked with the photographer. Treat this like an employment opportunity and do research into the other party.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I didn't read intuition as much as I read fear. If you haven't been in this kind of situation before, you won't really be able to think rationally about it. Your "intuition" is really worthless this way. Imagine going into a combat zone with no combat training, just your intuition. Think it'll be enough to help you be effective? It might, I repeat, might keep you alive, but it won't help you understand anything about the kind of situation you're in. In other words, intuition is no substitute for experience.

I have been in situations similar to this countless times in my life. The fear, or intuition, is there for a purpose. I think most girls face choices like this sooner or later in life, and repeatedly.

Sometimes fear and intuition are the same thing. Contrary to what we read so much on this website, fear actually serves a good purpose sometimes and often what seems like fear is really your intuition giving a warning, or even intuition mixed with fear.

By the way, in a situation like this, "rationality" doesn't come into the question. Fear and intuition are not rational, but also need to be heeded sometimes. It's a little unusual to continue acting against those feelings, though. An act of rationality would probably actually be to ignore the fear and intuition.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I have been in situations similar to this countless times in my life. The fear, or intuition, is there for a purpose. I think most girls face choices like this sooner or later in life, and repeatedly.

Sometimes fear and intuition are the same thing. Contrary to what we read so much on this website, fear actually serves a good purpose sometimes and often what seems like fear is really your intuition giving a warning, or even intuition mixed with fear.

By the way, in a situation like this, "rationality" doesn't come into the question. Fear and intuition are not rational, but also need to be heeded sometimes. It's a little unusual to continue acting against those feelings, though. An act of rationality would probably actually be to ignore the fear and intuition.

You've been to lots of guys houses to shoot naked pictures for money? I mean, you say similar, but how similar? Are you putting this in the same category as "guy looks at you funny on the subway?" She answered his ad, she went to his house, she agreed to take his money, she agreed to have her pictures taken, she agreed to take her clothes off. How similar again?

[Michael Chui]

My, but it's just impossible these days to have a thread where someone asks for help and veterans don't end up bickering amongst themselves over some tangential point.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

My, but it's just impossible these days to have a thread where someone asks for help and veterans don't end up bickering amongst themselves over some tangential point.

It's a long-standing tradition.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You've been to lots of guys houses to shoot naked pictures for money? I mean, you say similar, but how similar? Are you putting this in the same category as "guy looks at you funny on the subway?" She answered his ad, she went to his house, she agreed to take his money, she agreed to have her pictures taken, she agreed to take her clothes off. How similar again?

Of course I have NOT; the only difference between me and her being that I listened to my fear or intuition every time and never went that far with the guy, so I never found myself in a situation like that - but I have repeatedly found myself in situations which begin the same way as hers and which would have continued and ended as hers did, and actually much worse in some cases, if I had not heeded my fear. If she heeds her fear, she will probably never be in a situation like that again either.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Of course I have NOT; the only difference between me and her being that I listened to my fear or intuition every time and never went that far with the guy, so I never found myself in a situation like that - but I have repeatedly found myself in situations which begin the same way as hers and which would have continued and ended as hers did, and actually much worse in some cases, if I had not heeded my fear. If she heeds her fear, she will probably never be in a situation like that again either.

I don't think it is wise to always heed your fear. Fear and intuition are 2 different things. I was afraid of talking to regular people, if I would have listened to that fear I would have never gotten anywhere.

Listening to your intuition however is always a good idea. Not always by running away from certain situation, but in this case, for example by being extra on alert, getting the bf up there with you etc.

Learning to distinguish between the voice of fear and the voice of your intuition is very important.
They can both say the same thing, but they can also say different things...

[Bliss Sage]

Vince said it was fear. I say it was intuition. IMO the end result shows it was intuition.

I still think intuition comes in the guise of fear often. It certainly does for me. This is not about a state you live in with regards to one sort of situation or act, like the example you gave. This is about getting a sudden feeling about someone, for example, or exactly the examples provided in the OP.

I called it intuition, but changed it to fear to agree with the terminology of the person I was writing to. There is surely an element of fear in it, but it is like fear with some unspoken knowledge or access to more information about the situation or person that you don't get from the facts as they are presented - that is intuition and it carries an element of fear or creepiness, in my experience.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Of course I have NOT; the only difference between me and her being that I listened to my fear or intuition every time and never went that far with the guy, so I never found myself in a situation like that - but I have repeatedly found myself in situations which begin the same way as hers and which would have continued and ended as hers did, and actually much worse in some cases, if I had not heeded my fear. If she heeds her fear, she will probably never be in a situation like that again either.

So, in other words, you haven't been in her situation before and are just generalizing based on other creepy guys you've met and what might have happened had you not listened to your fear/intuition.

She chose to be there. She chose to meet the guy, based on an ad on craigslist and a telephone conversation, at his place, allowing her boyfriend to remain out of the picture. She chose all this, then she chose to freak out when he turned out to not be the saint she naively pictured him to be.

Now, you're calling it 'not listening to intuition', but this is a clear case of 'not listening to common sense'. And the fact is, she was never in danger. It was just a guy getting his jollies by paying women to take naked pictures of them.

Thing here to realize is, there was every reason to know that before she ever knocked on his door, just going on the way he presented himself.

Intuition is walking into a situation that looks legit and saying, "something's off here," and walking out. Common sense is staying away from situations that are shady from the get go. This situation never was legit. Intuition is not a substitute for common sense, you seem to be suggesting it is.

That being said, there was no reason to freak out. It's not like she got hurt, she just got her naivete rudely adjusted. There was no reason for the fear, or the intuition, just a little common sense.

Now, I'm being harsh here, because the world can be a harsh place sometimes and people, especially young women, need to be able to look at things like this in this fashion so that they appreciate all these threats they need to protect themselves from.

Unlike you, I actually have been in a situation like this, which is why I grilled you on this earlier. A guy stopped me while I was walking and wanted to take pictures of me, making vague promises of money. I didn't trust him but I was bored and I wanted to see how it played out. We went back to my place and started taking pictures. He wanted me to take my clothes off, and because I'm not shy about such things I did so. He then wanted me to watch porn so he could take pictures of me with my erection. I couldn't get hard with a dude watching, so he offered to fellate me. I let him do it for a few seconds, realized I wasn't gay, then kicked him out. I didn't freak out about it because I know that regardless of the guy's intentions, I chose to be in the situation, and I was in control the entire time.

After he left, I did a lot of thinking about it, and realized that I should have saw that it was just a ploy right from the beginning, and that the entire thing was a set up. He didn't have any intention of giving me any money, and I'd bet that the guy in the OP never intended to give up any cash either, setting it up so he'd have an excuse to ask for it back. At the time I didn't understand that it was just a ploy for sex, but I could have had I been thinking rationally. I wasn't, I made my decision based on my boredom. She should have realized it too, but she didn't, and made her decision based on money. That was a mistake. Yet even though she made that mistake, she was in control and could have stopped it anytime. Instead of staying in control, she chose to freak out. She stopped being in control the second she started freaking out. Until then, it was just a random weird experience on planet Earth.

Not something she needed intuition to 'save' her from.

[ginkgo]

Well you can imagine both possibilities. He is an artist. Did he have a listing or a card or anything about art? The other possiblity is that he has money and wants to get turned on by a young woman. Do guys go to the nudie bars and put money in the woman's G string for art? If not, then what is their goal? This guy wanted you to get him excited or turn him on. That is why he did not want your boyfriend there.

If you want to make money, then dance at a nudie bar. They will not try to fool you and tell you that it is art.

I did not understand how you gave him his money back but wanted him to give you your money back.

At some point in there they may make you feel dirty, but you will get paid a lot of money for it. I used to to drive a cab. Some told me that they were doing it to pay for school. Some told me that they make more money than a lawyer.

There is a very famous and rich internet marketer and coach, Katie Frieland. She made a lot of money working in a place like that and retired. But she trusted someone to invest that money and they lost it all.

[fwoom]

I didn't want him to give me my money back. I was perfectly happy to give him his money back. That was someone's misunderstanding in an earlier comment.

One, intuition is related to fear, maybe fear is even a subset of intuition, but I don't think it really matters. And two, I don't completely agree with Vince and I also don't think this sort of commentary is completely necessary. Yes, I chose to be there. Yes, I was naive. But I don't think you can fairly argue that I "chose" to let my boyfriend not be in the scene, or I "chose" to continue with the scene the way I did. If someone is naive and thrown in a situation he/she completely did not expect and didn't know how to handle, maybe he/she isn't able to make a quick flash decision and pull out of there in time. Oftentimes a decision is taken away from you while you're hesitating, confused, uneasy... etc. I hesitated too long because I didn't know what to do. My boyfriend waved and left. Is it really fair to label all of these as my "choices"? Just because I was naive and didn't see right off the bat that this was a shady situation, as you clearly did?

More on fear/intuition, I also don't agree that you should always follow your intuition. I'm going to use the terms interchangeably in this case, because I believe the vets are referring to the same thing and arguing about semantics. Either way, fears are often to be overcome, are they not? And if anyone has ever handled probability or anything similar via intuition, they probably failed miserably in their business ventures and burned, because some things in life are counterintuitive.

What if my intuition was to stay quiet and submissive because that was how I was raised? And I believed that raising objections and bolting might be dangerous? What then? I definitely don't agree that following intuition is always the thing to do, and honestly, I think rationality would come more into play in a situation like this. It takes my rational side to tell me, "you should speak up." My "intuition" isn't to speak up. It's that I'm uncomfortable. I wasn't trained to get out as soon as I'm uncomfortable - aren't we all trained, as children, to NOT follow our intuition and cry and whine as soon as we're bored or frustrated, but to sit still through it?

The above thoughts aren't very organized and I have more to say, but I have to go do something now so I'll be back later. :X Thanks to everyone who had something to say though!

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by fwoom

One, intuition is related to fear, maybe fear is even a subset of intuition, but I don't think it really matters. And two, I don't completely agree with Vince and I also don't think this sort of commentary is completely necessary. Yes, I chose to be there. Yes, I was naive. But I don't think you can fairly argue that I "chose" to let my boyfriend not be in the scene, or I "chose" to continue with the scene the way I did. If someone is naive and thrown in a situation he/she completely did not expect and didn't know how to handle, maybe he/she isn't able to make a quick flash decision and pull out of there in time. Oftentimes a decision is taken away from you while you're hesitating, confused, uneasy... etc. I hesitated too long because I didn't know what to do. My boyfriend waved and left. Is it really fair to label all of these as my "choices"? Just because I was naive and didn't see right off the bat that this was a shady situation, as you clearly did?

One of the things that is very important on this forum (and; in my opinion, in life) is taking responsibility for your action and decisions and life in general.

An important thing to remember is that taking responsibility does not equal blame or fault. It was not your fault that your boyfriend went away, it is however your choice to let him go away and be ok with that at that moment.

Each and every one of us does the best we can with the tools (internal and external) that we have at that moment. So there is no blame and no fault. But it was your choice.

More on fear/intuition, I also don't agree that you should always follow your intuition. I'm going to use the terms interchangeably in this case, because I believe the vets are referring to the same thing and arguing about semantics. Either way, fears are often to be overcome, are they not? And if anyone has ever handled probability or anything similar via intuition, they probably failed miserably in their business ventures and burned, because some things in life are counterintuitive.

What if my intuition was to stay quiet and submissive because that was how I was raised? And I believed that raising objections and bolting might be dangerous? What then? I definitely don't agree that following intuition is always the thing to do, and honestly, I think rationality would come more into play in a situation like this. It takes my rational side to tell me, "you should speak up." My "intuition" isn't to speak up. It's that I'm uncomfortable. I wasn't trained to get out as soon as I'm uncomfortable - aren't we all trained, as children, to NOT follow our intuition and cry and whine as soon as we're bored or frustrated, but to sit still through it?

The above is exactly why it is so important to know the difference between your fear and your intuition.

Sometimes they are the same. If I walk alongside a park in the dark I may feel uncomfortable, and feel afraid. I also may get a nudge from my intuition saying 'get the hell out of here!'

They may sometimes not be the same as well. When I want to go talk to strangers I may feel very afraid, but my intuition may stay calm and say nothing because it can see/feel/hear nothing to be afraid off...

Or the other way around. There might be an old man on the street in need for help, in the middle of the day and I may not be afraid at all. Yet my intuition might have seen/felt/heart something that my conscious mind did not and it may scream at me 'get away from here!'.

That is why I would say that you should always listen to your intuition, and whenever you feel afraid you should check with your intuition.

Even in daily life I think it is well worth it to be in a good rapport with your intuition to hear it at all times in order to make a good decision.

The above thoughts aren't very organized and I have more to say, but I have to go do something now so I'll be back later. :X Thanks to everyone who had something to say though!

With regards to this situation; I can absolutely imagine how uncomfortable it was for you and I hope that one of the lessons you learn from this is to speak up sooner whenever you feel uncomfortable.

[Brutha]

He didn't have any intention of giving me any money, and I'd bet that the guy in the OP never intended to give up any cash either, setting it up so he'd have an excuse to ask for it back.

Given that he seems to run a porn website I think it's likely that he needs pictures.

I don't agree. I think 'artistic nudes' is a highly subjective concept, and if he intended on taking pictures of her crotch, he ought to have said so up front. Giving people information up front empowers them. Not giving it either by lying or just not saying anything (in this case) sort of takes away the idea of consent in my opinion.

If she didn't intend on having pictures of her crotch taken she could have said so. From the get go it was clear that the guy was running a porn site. She could have asked him for his definition of "artistic".

What if my intuition was to stay quiet and submissive because that was how I was raised? And I believed that raising objections and bolting might be dangerous? What then?

Then you learned a valuable lesson.