Educational backgrounds

[Noir]

Is it wrong to desire to be with somebody with a similar educational background?

Statistics show that college-educated black women in America are the least likely to marrry, and have children.

Many C-E black women express concern about finding mates that have similar educational backgrounds.

C-E Black women outnumber C-E black men, many are reluctant to date outside their ethnicity (i think we should open our minds a bit), and some experience rejection by others.

What do you think?

[Isis Kali]

Heh. I'm a C-E Black woman (didn't finish, but went to Sarah Lawrence), and this is a HUGE problem with my friends and I. In fact, I'd say that this is intellectual gap is one reason we all date interracially.

I find that education brings exposure to the world at large. My circle of friends is into politics, Gothic and Industrial music, gallery openings, and things of that nature...which are things that you're not going to find in the inner city, where much of Black culture is centered (to our detriment, I think). When we date, we seem to encounter a lot of different things from Black men:

• Jealousy: It's almost as if our credentials and skills are a threat.
• Ignorant behavior: I suppose that it's supposed to be a turn-on to be called a bitch or an Oreo because I don't like music that calls me a whore. Ooops. Sorry. Also, I deserve to not be touched, physically blocked in, or rubbed against when I don't know a man; this is all too common. Those things are nothing but blatant power plays by men who feel that they must bully, rather than mentally relate, to me. Education and culture give you confidence. I NEVER stand for that mess, and have shoved men before who step over the line.
• Racism: with exposure to the world at large, you're more than likely to have non-Black friends. I've actually had a guy try to chat me up on MySpace by knocking the fact that I had Caucasians on my friend list. I tore him a new ********************* for that one, let me tell you.
• Belittlement: What you don't understand, make fun of. I see websites by Black men that are so, so hurtful and hateful about how much they hate Black womens' education and upward rise. Walk in NYC in the summer, and you'll see street preachers calling you a slut for wearing a miniskirt. Yeah, that's love and understanding.

I think that C-E Black women are in a really, really strange space in society, mostly because we're seen as powerful...but not. Beautiful...but not. Welfare queen, or corporate raider? It's like people don't know where to place us. Personally, I'm just Isis, and I fly on my own merits.

If you're open to other peoples, you will NEVER have a problem getting a date. However, I think that many CEBW, perhaps, feel like sellouts for going outside of the race to marry; there may be an underlying expectation that one must give back to the community, and that this is compromised by bearing mixed kids. Bull.

[Noir]

i COMPLETELYT agree.
It's actually quite sad.
And the more we try to be "open minded" and relate to all (both c-e and non c-e men) as part of bettering the community, the more we clash with them and get hurt.

It's good that many of us hae no problem with dating interracially, but it's also sad to have the impression that many people from other races actually don't want to date black women.

Is this more of a perception than reality? I wonder.

Any non-black men have any insight? It would be appreciated

[Mark Lapierre]

I'm lucky enough to be halfway between black and caucasian. I'm Mauritian, and as a race we're coloured right across the spectrum, though most are dark, just not necessarily African-American dark.

Regardless, I'm clearly not white, though also not black enough that people judge me as such.

I haven't dated any black women, though that has little to do with either race or educational background; I simply haven't met any I like enough. Mind you, I've met few girls of any race I like enough.

Isis, you said that education brings exposure to the world at large. If only that were a guaranteed result of education but unfortunately I've found that to not be so, in many cases. Some people seem stubbornly resistant to outside ideas even after college-level education. Hell, not even exposure to the world via travel seems to help some people. Stubbornly close-minded.

Thankfully there are plenty for whom that's not the case, and I do believe that traveling the world is better than education in terms of getting people to accept others, both around the world and in their own country. So there are there are at least two good options for world exposure, as long as people have access to either option. And I'm guessing that's part of the problem, neither education nor travel is cheap...

Now back to people marrying outside their race, some of my caucasian friends, including some who didn't complete high school, let alone uni, are very attracted to non-caucasians and would (and have) quite happily date them.

[Noir]

yeah there is such thing as being an "educated fool."
But hopefully most people do not fall into that category.

People seem to be afraid of this thread lol

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Noir

People seem to be afraid of this thread lol

Some people may be hesitant to comment as they’re afraid of sounding racist even though they don’t feel or wish to be at all bigoted.

My dad and I have both dated black women, and my mom nearly married a black guy before she ended up with my white hippy dad. You've already mentioned a couple issues that I deal with in this area, that of much of mainstream black culture being ghetto (often self-defeating) culture, and of whites not always being very welcome.

At this point, I don’t know if/when I’ll date another black woman, as few if any show up at the events/clubs that I frequent, so I would have to go out of my way to talk to one at this point (I do go to a local black church on occasion, but I don't know how that will progress yet). I have nothing against people of any color, and so long as they have similar interests to me I can enjoy being with them. It’s just that people with my flavor of interests, or at least those who end up in my main social circles, are almost exclusively upper middle class white, with some Asians and that’s basically it.

Online forums have been interesting, as it’s not always clear what someone’s age, gender, or race is. One can develop an attitude about someone that is based purely on the persona they choose to portray via their choice of words. As long as someone uses proper (some would derisively say white) English, has something interesting or supportive to say, and doesn’t resort to insults or personal attacks, I can respect that person and be open to getting to know him/her better.

If I were to consider a serious commitment to a woman, it couldn't be just her that shared my interests, but also to a large extent her family and close friends. If many of them didn't even want the girl to be with a white guy it probably wouldn't work, and I would focus elsewhere so that my odds of a successful union would be better.

[Simmiah]

I recently heard on NPR or something like that on the radio that there was a study done stating that women who had a higher IQ had a lesser tendency to be married.

I believe this is on a similar vein to what you were asking.

Personally, I find if there is any large discrepancy between two people in a relationship it can & often will bring up incompatibilities not only with external stuff such as what they enjoy hobby-wise but.. also in terms of jealousy/envy/anger... misunderstandings from non-acceptance. It can be a very interesting relationship but it seems that is a deterrment.

Me: I'm 26. A female. I was considered a nerd in high school & though I look pretty much the same (minus angst of course) I find that guys approach me more if they don't meet me in an education-type setting. They often also assume I'm not as intelligent though many claim they are attracted to me because of it I find later upon dating for a while that insecurities come out in the form of tiny attacks on my way of doing things. I've found the source of this to be some form of insecurity on the part of the guy in respect to his intelligence or "success" in the world. Maybe this is related to some other issue of mine personally but I've noticed this trend & it is somewhat confusing. So I wonder if CE black women experience this same problem.

But then again, I've also met guys for whom this is not a problem. Anyways, dating in general can be rather difficult, college educated or not, intelligent or not, old or young.. haha.

I'm married now but I will not say the road to where I am now was easy! However, in this case, I would say focus less on the others & what is going on with them & look inside. At least that's what's worked for me. & if my marriage were to go bottom up I would say where I'm at now.. well, I'd be a lot less likely to want to be married again or even date. So.... sometimes I wonder if people just choose to not be married. It could be not for a lack of better partners but rather a choice to be alone?

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Simmiah

So.... sometimes I wonder if people just choose to not be married. It could be not for a lack of better partners but rather a choice to be alone?

It seems that the more a woman makes, the less need she feels to marry, and it may be the same in relation to IQ. In the past I'd come across stats saying that the higher a woman's IQ is the less likely she is to marry, while the higher a man's, the more apt he is to do so. Both may be simply doing whatever seems most beneficial to them in their situations.

I've also read that relationships do best when the partners have IQs within one standard deviation (15 points) of each other (not sure where to find this stat again). For me, it's necessary for a woman to be fairly intelligent, and preferably somewhat outspoken/vibrant, to really fall for her. That would likely mean an IQ of at least 115, while 140+ would be better

[RT Wolf]

I remembered reading about a study (haven't been able to track down the study itself) in the NY Times here:

What's a Modern Girl to Do? - New York Times

Relevant quote:

"A 2005 report by researchers at four British universities indicated that a high I.Q. hampers a woman's chance to marry, while it is a plus for men. The prospect for marriage increased by 35 percent for guys for each 16-point increase in I.Q.; for women, there is a 40 percent drop for each 16-point rise."

I'm the opposite. Intelligence is very attractive to me. However, I can still understand the choices of people as they are.

[Love]

I don't think it's a wrong thing at all. I know, for instance, that I just want someone that can THINK with me. (I am also a CEBW). I find that people who truly think are limited in supply, irregardless of race. But then you have to wonder, what's creating what? Am I thinking that first and then finding that to be true? Me thinks yes. So for an experiment, I'll try thinking the reverse... There are lots of great, thinking, reflective people out there... and it easy for me to meet them! As I will, so let it be...

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Simmiah

...insecurities come out in the form of tiny attacks on my way of doing things. I've found the source of this to be some form of insecurity on the part of the guy in respect to his intelligence or "success" in the world.

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

I'm the opposite. Intelligence is very attractive to me. However, I can still understand the choices of people as they are.

I agree with both points. I've sometimes heard beautiful, intelligent women described as daunting my some guys (well, they say scary, but they mean daunting). After questioning them I found out that it was because of the confidence the women project, and the belief that someone like that would never go for them (no matter how great a catch the guy in question would be). I suspect it has to do with men's perceived role in the world, a role of protector and provider. Perhaps they see themselves as less of a man if the women so clearly doesn't need protecting or providing for. I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thing has been studied before.

I'm very strongly attracted to those sorts of women. In respect to a man's perceived role, a woman's confidence and intelligence and independence is attractive to me because they obviously don't need that from me. So any interest they display stems from desire, not need.

I'm even more attracted if they express their intelligence in a humourous and playful way (though that does make them much less daunting, and thus more attractive to other guys as well).